The Conservative Impulse of Punk

custos! this is ALL WRONG! Like flat-out NOT TRUE.

the clash for one had rockabilly AND reggae influences (since you addressed that post to mark s., allow me to pipe in on his behalf: the clash R not punk and there R no influences) and k-zillion other punk bands with 50's rockabilly/roots/country in 'em or rockabilly/country/roots bands with punk in 'em.

besides which 2-Tone and Ska are the same thing not two different subgenres (oh ok you could argue that 2-tone was a subset of ska but who cares)! and SKA predates REGGAE let alone PUNK let alone reggae-tinged punk!

and if i could clarify what I meant by conservative I would but I've tried, man, I've really tried.

it may have been contrary to the mainstream culture, but the "back to basics" attitude of Ramones et al was about affirming the intended audience's beliefs that the culture had lost its way which = conservatism

The point is that these elements weren't usually used in a conservative manner. Reusing the past isn't always conservative. In the case of Punk it was commonly not a major point (maybe Whirlwind or something).

I reject the notion of 57-67. There was plenty Bowie, Kraftwerk, and T Rex there. There was plenty of hard rock. There was plenty of Disco there too. Man Machine, Silver Machine, Silver Convention.

"Ska grew out of punk" No it didn't.

"maybe three or four Punk bands with noticable rockabilly flava" Suicide, Generation X, The Birthday Party, The Clash, The Rezillos, B52s, Adam and the Ants. (and expand Rockabilly to cover all pre-Beatles American pop and its hard to find a band that isn't)

Fritz: the clash for one had rockabilly AND reggae influences..[..]
the clash for one had rockabilly AND reggae influences..[..]the clash R not punk and there R no influences
Uh....this is a contradiction...
a. the clash for one had rockabilly AND reggae influences..
b. the clash R not punk and there R no influences...
a. rockabilly AND reggae influences..
b. there R no influences...
a. influences...
b. no influences...

Fritz: and k-zillion other punk bands with 50's rockabilly/roots/country in 'em or rockabilly/country/roots bands with punk in 'em.
I guess I'm using an artificially narrow definition of Punk.

Fritz: and SKA predates REGGAE let alone PUNK let alone reggae-tinged punk!
When I say Ska(2) I'm referring to the white-people made version from the late 70s, not Ska(1) the original pre-Rockstready proto-Reggae dance music from 1950s Jamaica.

Fritz: and if i could clarify what I meant by conservative I would but I've tried, man, I've really tried.
Okay. Fair enough. What word should we use instead then, so we all stop bickering like partisans? Is this all about a "status-quo enforcing" impulse in Punk? A "return to the roots" impulse in Punk? A "fear of the different" impulse?

It's dialectical.

and please note that this is based on "Alley-Oop" not real facts

Roots reggae always had a conservative slant

and hell yeah to that! I still don't understand why the emperor-worshipping back-to-the-land anti-gay anti-woman pro-Bible religious elements of reggae get such a free pass to groovytown just because they smoke pot (take out the emperor and bible and you got the MC5 too)

Lord C. - what are the differences between ska(1) and ska(2)?

have I got an ILE thread for you ;)

The Clash and some others responded (I think) to the liberation theology in there - and the groove - but that spark seems to have been quite ably contained somehow.
Tragic, really. We shoulda let it all flow out of us.

I mean the last time I was over at June Cleaver's she had Bob Marley - "Legend" in her CD stack. And "London Calling".
Yeah, but YOUR June Cleaver is Rockist Scum who has the records but never listens to them. The June Cleaver I'm referring to still thinks Tony Bennett is too racy for her blood.

Fritz: have I got an ILE thread for you
Post a link, and I'll take a look.

That's Mark on the left getting rid of Custos in the middle while Fritz looks on in horror. I'm in the background with the white hat thinking "The hell?"

What you're talking about definitely applies to many punk subgenres, but I think the "alt-country" movement might be a better example of "musical conservatism."

Tracer I don't agree - the look is more negative than just jealousy. I read it as a bit of jealousy, a bit of fear, a bit of disappointment. I think punk - like most 'scenes' - must have been a crushing disappointment for a lot of scared or shy kids who wanted a place where they could 'fit in' and 'be themselves' and discovered that it *was* themselves who made them unable to fit in, not the square straight world (or whatever).

I'm reminded of the Venn Diagram Mark S reprints in his 'Concrete' essay - here are the punks and here are the non-punks and here are the people who don't fit into either. The reading is that those people are sympathetic but I think they can be sympathetic and also frightened and miserable and disappointed.

i suppose this is hardly earth-shaking news but it just goes to show: when is jello biafra going to get a propah job, eh? (i haf still not forgiven him for "too drunk to fuck", i paid GOOD MONEY FOR THAT you laYMoR)