Meditation people roll call!

2 hours a day is just too much for me. On the other hand, its one of those things I know I would find worthwhile if I was more regular about it. However, it seems kinda selfish to do 2 hrs a day - it would deeply inconvenience my wife, and I'm pretty sure our baby wouldn't dig it either.

x-post

Is it something you can learn in class and then practice alone once you grasp it or is it better in a roomful of people?

I can only speak for vipassana - which does not require any other people at all once you've learned it. Other people don't really add much to the experience, yr all just sitting there being quiet.

I did it in a group sometimes during the first year. After that, always by myself. This particular technique is extremely simple. Supposedly it matters a lot that you have the right m@ntr@ which they give you, you aren't supposed to share it with others, etc. I assume the m@ntr@s all come from a limited pool of Hindi nonsense words and they assign one to you based on general personality type/body type or whatever.

Sorry for all the pr00of1ng but i feel there's danger of g00glers with this subject.

xpost Shakey-- I meant two sessions a day, each one is only 20 minutes.

I could never ever do anything 2 hours a day except-- err, what I'm ostensibly getting paid to do right now...

vipassana is recommended as two 1-hr sessions per day (one in the morning and one at night) - sessions shorter than 1 hr kinda don't have the same effect.

jeez I dunno guys. I'm probably gonna have 45 minutes a day max if I'm lucky. I hate capitalism.

David Lynch does the TM 20-minutes a day thing. I've never done TM - I'm averse to mantras and gurus and whatnot.

I've been meditating seriously for fifteen-plus years. The technique I use mostly is to lie prone and experience my body as an energy field. The mind can sense any areas of the body where energy is concentrated/built up and you can, in a sense, put yourself inside that space where the energy is built up in order that it may dissipate around you. Another way to disperse energy is to imagine something like an acupuncture needle being stuck inside these pockets of energy, creating a hole through which the energy can escape.

The point of dispersing pent up energy, of course, is to allow it to go where it is needed. To balance oneself energetically.

Recently I've started focusing on the chakra wheels as well. I'm taking a class on chakras right now, actually.

Shakey, Yeah you do have to take the mantra part pretty much. But once you've learned the technique, you can just tell the TM industry to go have sex with itself.

TS: David Lynch vs. Doug Henning

Tim how much time do you spend per week on meditation?

i'd do what david lynch does

^ only half-joking

I'm actually always in varied states of being either in the spirit world or in this world. You get to the point where channeling energy is second nature - you're just constantly doing it. Lately, I've been going through an intense period personally and actually isolating myself and going into deep states has been necessary.

Was that supposed to be an answer to my question?

Haha, well, I mean to say that it varies. : D

Like, don't you have traffic or post offices in San Diego? Are you in deep states when negotiating those?

I'll visit San Diego, i think.

No, not deep states, but I'm aware of my energy and I can channel it.

The more you open yourself up, too, by working toward balancing your own energy field, the more access to your body and mind divine spirits have to help and heal you.

I can believe that. Soemthing similar happened with yoga when I was doing it regularly. If you want to explain it in those terms, that is. It didn't really feel like something divine was helping me, more like something internal and grounded.

We all have spirit guides who are with us at all times. They can work with your body.

Grounding relates to the root chakra at the base of the spine.

gygax!'s #1 secret myspace crush

Tim I am fascinated by your approach, especially being constantly in and out of such states. I wish I could meditate, as my mind is always so "busy". I can very easily imagine and get into a frame of mind where I can imagine energy and suchlike though. Curious.

Even apart from going into states of meditation, one thing you can do is to think about your muscles and just letting go of tension. The sphicter is the big one of course. The amount of energy released just by relaxing the sphincter muscle is great.

In medidation, though, it's dealing with the energy throughout the body, not just in muscles.

As far as the mind goes, the old analogy is that thoughts are like birds that appear flying through your mental space. We can always release them - we don't have to focus on them. It's in this sense that we realize that, ultimately, we do, in fact, choose our own thoughts and are in control of our own minds.

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/meditation/fundamentals_dzogchen_meditation/fund_dzogchen_meditation_02.html

hey guys what'd i miss

I've been struggling to do morning half-hour zazen for a few months now; starting tomorrow I'll be regularly dropping by my local Zen Center in the early AM. To be honest I have difficulty sitting alone. I get a sense of strength from sitting with a sangha that doesn't come when I sit alone (though whether that feeling is 'strength' or 'it would be frowned upon if I aborted this session to go get a meatball sub, so I'd better stay on the cushion' remains to be seen).

I also do zazen in a hidden little corner of the library for half an hour during my lunch break.

I've heard positive things about Vipassana, but I don't really know anything about it. Any resources you might be able to point me to, Shakey Mo?

I figure my taiji and giqong count as meditation, when I bother to do them.

vipassana = www.dhamma.org

There is no hierarchy, no gurus, no theology, no religious dogma that goes along with it. There are no fees of any kind, it is completely free and open to everyone, and centers are staffed and run entirely by volunteers funded by donations. The meditation technique is what the Buddha himself practiced. I was also attracted to its combination of simplicity and rigor - the concept behind it is very basic but the practice itself is quite difficult (at least at first).

However, I should probably also mention that I did not learn vipassana in the US or in the presence of other westerners - I'm not sure what centers in the US are like, and I imagine you may find yourself in a class with a lot of annoying new age-ish "seeker" types and/or that guy from Weezer. Fortunately everyone maintains silence.

There is no hierarchy, no gurus, no theology, no religious dogma that goes along with it.

And no results! Ha, just kidding. ;)

With hand on bar, world is silent.

I got some totally chill book on meditation that helped me learn the following things: get comfy when you do it, ie a comfy chair or bed that you like & just close your eyes. Don't worry about emptying your mind or not thinking of anything. Don't worry if bad or negative thoughts come to you, just let them sift through. Don't worry if your mind is "busy," just let the thoughts fly by you but don't really focus on them or ruminate. Don't go into it trying to force some particular emotional state.

You can use a mantra if you want. For a while, mine was actually 'solve et coagula,' haha. Any word I want, not made up ones. It's like when you say any word over and over, ie "chalk" or whatevs, after a while it means nothing & can actually grow to be very amusing. Then I started imagining an image of a turtle & somehow that really works for me.

I liked the book because it was like building your own approach. Once you figured out ways that worked for you, just stick with them and don't act like there are rules & regulations. Or experiment with other things or methods or locations.

He also made the interesting point that if you get places a few minutes early, you have time to relax & never have the stress of rushing or being late, which is basically as good as meditating. Awesome.

a lot of annoying new age-ish "seeker" types

That One Guy That Shows Up in Sandals & A Tie-Dye Asking About "Generating Energy"

He should buy a gasoline-powered anything, or eat a pear, or go for a run...all of which generate energy.

Yes, he should take out his pocket knife and prissily eat a pear.

Haha, I live in Berkeley. Everyone is like this!

annoying new age-ish "seeker" types >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the guy from Weezer

Now now, Abbott. The guy is a bozo, of course, but going for a run spends energy.

It creates energy via the krebs cycle & vellular respiration, ie the energy which you then burn. Potential--->kinetic. Or I could be totally wrong.

I am imagining this guy as the New Age Retro Hippie from Earthbound:

http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/eb/images/clay/newageretrohippie.gif

contemporize maaaaaaan

Hmmm - okay, I was thinking about caloric energy.

Do you guys really have experience with a lot of new age-oriented people ("you may find yourself in a class with a lot of annoying new age-ish "seeker" types") or is this just...stereotyping?

Experience with a lot of people who fall into this negative stereotype, I mean.

dude I live in San Francisco. My mom took me to Harmonic Convergence as a child. I went to school in UC Santa Cruz.

in = at

duh

Yeah. I just bristle a little at the stereotype because the only really progressive things going on spiritually in this country do still fall under the "new age" umbrella.

He also made the interesting point that if you get places a few minutes early, you have time to relax & never have the stress of rushing or being late, which is basically as good as meditating. Awesome.

this is major words of wisdom
i am always running late :/ and i try to breathe it out but what i'm really thinking is 'why didn't you just not run late in the first place?' rrgh

what book is this, abbott? it sounds like my kind of book

xpost

somehow i have managed to avoid a lot of those types. but i have also managed to avoid going to meditation centres and yoga retreats and things.

I don't disagree with that - obviously my own interests veer heavily into what a majority of Americans would consider "new age" or "occult" or "hippie" or whatever. Still, as far as demographics go it attracts its share of irritating people (and conmen, and dilletantes, and ignoramuses) just like any other religious community)

x-post

All of which I dutifully summarized in very concise form for my meditation teacher this morning, who then gave the expected response of saying being that aware of the moment of giving into annoyance is also a part of the practice.

“That” seems to be misplaced

Rinse and repeat

Yr mileage may vary.

There probably is something really interesting happening at that moment.

How often do you talk to your meditation teacher?

I talk through a little chat box pretty much every day.

Wow, nice. I would love a setup like that. For a while it didn't feel like there was much point in talking to a teacher frequently, but now that there seems to be some movement in my practice I'm more interested.

Excuse my rambling post about The Snow Leopard!

I've been thinking about the 'conceptual overlay' and 'experiential alienation' stuff a LOT and am amazed at how a minor shift in thinking can open up new places from which to observe one's thought processes.

yup

*bump* to tell Chinaski that this practice can definitely help with some memory issues.

I have a few things to say about but can’t type any of them for the nonce.

Slightly alarmed by who 'the nonce' might be...

I'm sure it's purely coincidental but my memory issues have definitely increased since I've been meditating more! Very keen to hear of any ideas you have, James. Thanks for the heads-up on the other thread.

I've been trying meditation, and the only problem is that it seems to be working at cross-purposes with what I want in my life. My mind is empty enough already, and I don't want to empty it any further. I also want to stop being as self-aware and self-focused as I am and start focusing on other people. I'm also way too calm and accepting of the way my life has gone.

Apologies for the unsolicited advice. I'm always wary of over-generalizing from my own experience. But this is how meditation has been helpful for me, as someone else who is often self-focused.

Meditation isn't about emptying your mind. It is about becoming more aware of what's happening internally that's guiding your habitual behaviors - making the unconscious conscious. It should help with being able to focus on what's appropriate for you to focus on in a given moment, whether that's something internal or something external.

More than once I have misinterpreted meditation instructions to recommend quietism or passivity in daily life. That's not the case - it should help you see situations more clearly, and sometimes that will mean taking action.

It isn't a quick fix for any of these things, but one thing it also helps with is letting go of the idea that you need to radically change yourself. That's not to say you can't take action to make changes in your life! But that's different.

meditating with music on headphones I find is good too though I guess it could be called something other than meditating

meditate (v.)
1580s, "to ponder, think abstractly, engage in mental contemplation" (intransitive), probably a back-formation from meditation, or else from Latin meditatus, past participle of meditari "to meditate, think over, reflect, consider," frequentative form of PIE root *med- "take appropriate measures." From 1590s as "to plan in the mind," also "to employ the mind in thought or contemplation," especially in a religious way. Related: Meditated; meditating.

I might have to try this, because focusing on my breathing causes it to stop.

like chose an album that is a good solid 45 min of mind blowing fab music and lay down with the best headphones you have

Not meditation exactly but I've been enjoying noticing how my mind can be ping-ponging around while my body is just calmly doing something.

It’s definitely related.

I'm currently meditating every other day and have the dazzling insight that *something* is happening, I'm just not sure what it is (Mr Jones).

I'm reading Mark Epstein's *Thoughts Without A Thinker* which is the first text I've read that really lays out the process and purpose of meditating. Not so much how to integrate practise into everyday life but that's something I'm working out myself. I need a teacher. I'm just waiting for them to appear.

I'll check that book out. I still don't know what to recommend when people ask for a good introductory book on meditation.

Epstein is a psychoanalyst, so the book has a very particular brief wherein he's trying to find the common ground between the two disciplines. Perhaps not the best as an introduction? I'm not sure.

I guess it's the nature of who ends up writing successful books, but Epstein is another of the (admittedly few) writers I've read on the topic who has had access to some incredible teachers (Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield) and spent time meditating with the actual Dalai Lama.

Happy New Year!

I went on my first day 'retreat' in December. It was at my local(ish) Buddhist centre and involved a morning of guided meditation and an afternoon of reflection and puja. I would go as far as to say I loved it - particularly the three hours of silence and guided meditation, which I feel I'm still kind of feeding on. I struggled with the more explicitly religious aspects, I think, but did find the puja quite moving. I'm definitely going to return when I can.

Contra to that, I find this time of year really difficult and found I couldn't really meditate at all. I need to pick apart why but it did lead to feelings of frustration and confusion, mainly around a dialogue of 'when I need it most!' etc. Something to consider.

And happy new year!

Cool!

Have I mentioned the daily dharma before? There was a good one today that is relevant. I can send a link to the full article if you want.

Is that associated with Tricycle? I've just had a look now - looks great. Will consider subscribing.

Link to the relevant article would be appreciated!

Sure. You don't need to subscribe to the paid version right away. You can just get the bitesized version in the email every day if you want and use up your three free monthly articles or whatever it is in the beginning.

https://tricycle.org/magazine/buddhism-and-psychotherapy/

Anyway, I always find lots of good stuff over there, usually very well-written, including this article that is now number 2 on the most read right now: https://tricycle.org/article/mindfulness-buddhism/

HNY! I was on retreat till the 4th. Now I'm back in the middle of the whole mess. A little more open than before, though.

I think the answer to this will be 'you need a teacher*!' but I've been meditating pretty much every/every other day for about 9 months now and am a mix of, well, I wouldn't go as far as frustrated but something like that, and something verging on *scared* - the former, I'm sure, is 100% par for the course and part of the process; the latter, I don't know, something I need guidance on? For instance, I've been steadily moving towards 20 minutes every morning and today I felt completely undercut by strong emotions, like I was falling through my own trapdoors. I teach at a secondary school and it made the day pretty much unbearable (kids smell weakness and boom!).

I can't decide if I'm just struggling with stuff emotionally anyway (fair to say I have a lot going on in my life, with an unwell teenage son, and I can be very sensitive at the best of times anyway), or whether the meditation is opening up areas and I need a handhold through it. I've read a lot recently about these kinds of experiences within practice, so could just be assigning things wrongly? Maybe the connection is irrelevant and go with it anyway? Questions, fucking questions.

Anyway, what I don't want, and I know I'll be susceptible to this, is for the practice to fade.

*or a therapist!

Do you not have a teacher now?

No teacher, mainly due to nothing particularly being available. I'm affiliated very loosely with a local Buddhist group, but nothing official or regular. It's all been self-taught from lots of reading and listening.

If you can't get a teacher and/or therapist ... (I do recommend one) ... find an amount of daily meditation that works. Something where you're stretching and growing a bit, but that you can handle.

The standard guidance I've heard is once you're meditating roughly forty minutes a day, time to get a teacher. Below that, a teacher can be very useful, but you're probably not going to get into weird territory.

Most teachers probably wouldn't see emotional release during a difficult time of your life as a problem, but that's for you to judge depending on your circumstances. Maybe meditate after work?

Another thing I'll say is that a lot of teachers are accessible via Zoom these days.

This is great advice lukas, thank you. Things have calmed down since my message upthread *and* I've managed to find a day retreat for this coming Saturday so can hopefully speak to someone about guidance/teaching.

So Buddhism has this concept of the "near enemy" of skillful qualities - e.g. it's easy to mistake pity for compassion.

Note to self re: this morning's sit ... indifference is the near enemy of equanimity.

(this message brought to you by my splenius capitis)

Or the way it occurred to me at the time (when I realized, ugh, Christ, that really hurts, and it intensified and then released) was actually "pretending it doesn't hurt is the opposite of equanimity".

Ledge it sounds like you’re in the right path - fantasizing about longer distances would seem to be a great sign! But build up to those distances gradually.

^^ wrong thread, sorry

no no, I see the connection