"Aliens" : Some nice effects, but actually kind've a crap film.

because it's one of the best-directed action movies i've ever seen

See, that's just it:
Alien = a horror film
Aliens = stoopid action movie

No, ass-kicking action movie. If you don't like actions movies, we can't help you.

and as an action movie, one of the best of its kind!

Yeah, I guess that is a good scene. But, it's only one scene.

Also, what up? One beast goes slam-dancing all around the Nostromo without so much as a fuckin' scratch in the first one, meanwhile in this one, they drop like flies. Inconsistent!

No, ass-kicking action movie. If you don't like actions movies, we can't help you.

Bad writing is bad writing, regardless of genre, and that's what damns this film.

Why couldn't Tom Skerrit have survived the first one instead of Ripley? (I'll tellya why: because no one wanted to see Tom Skerrit in his underwear fight the beast at the end).

sigourney also got significantly LESS hot from aliens on. before, she was DEFINITELY hit-able.

Ah, but I don't consider this a good action movie. i consider it, unfortunately, a rather stoopid action movie.

and that scene i mentioned was an example, one of many!

also if you force me to be a nerd, they didn't have big guns in the first ones (the crew of the nostromo were just working joes, not heavily-armed marines)

(xxp)

this line is like a rejected billy corgan lyric, or something.

Alex, you're making totally irrelevant points

I'm just making observations, Harold, don't get your pants wet.

totally irrelevant, but m night shamalyan (or whatever the fuck his name is) is such a putz.

Ok. But I still think your arguments are silly given the topic at hand. An action movie is this: establishment of premise. Build. Payoff. That's it, man. "Writing"? Pfft. I don't understand what it is you're expecting of this movie, or why.

yeah but she allows sigourney to express her maternal ass-kicking instincts when she fights the ALIEN MOTHER.

Well-executed formula -- I agree. I think Alex is objecting to character development and dialogue.

Alex OTM. I love Alien but the rest are rubbish. Whenever I say I don't like Aliens people always go "But it's got cool guns". Yeah, well.

Oh, I've seen it properly before (in a theatre, actually). And yes, TV doesn't do justice to many films. I just don't think it's that well written. It's predecessor, meanwhile, was.

I don't understand what it is you're expecting of this movie, or why.

Well, I just don't think, in retrospect, it lives up to the promise of the first one.

I think Alex is objecting to character development and dialogue.

....or lack of it.

By the way, there are certainly worse films out there, for what it's worth.

the sexual subtexts are easily the best thing about the alien movies - why else have giger design the shit? - hell, and scifi and horror movies in general, too, as opposed to scifi and horror novels - and the 2nd movie expands on those subtexts in a way that "alien: resurrection" just don't (now there's a shit movie).

I would argue that it's a great deal more difficult to make an effectively scary, suspenseful horror film than an action movie (wherein all you really need to please certain folks, as noted, are "cool guns").

Was HR Giger involved with the films that followed the second one?

Also, vahid OTM.

S: the theatrical cut
D: *only* being able to have the extended cut on DVD for a long time, but that's thankfully now corrected

Alien and Aliens are different takes on standard tropes that were successful precisely Scott and crew on the one hand and Cameron and crew on the other were able to hotwire them into something which was so ridiculously successful -- commercially and in terms of effective filmmaking -- that each in their own single-handedly established a slew of new cliches. Which may seem a strange thing to credit them for, but *how* many films since then have essentially tried to be one or the other, borrowing set pieces, concepts, dialogue practically and more? And none are nearly as good as these two.

Alien Vs. Predator Vs. Rambo.

Like, a dance-off or something? Because...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxQmFw565_8

what the fuck @NECA_TOYS pic.twitter.com/zQqrAEolEV

— BenDavid Grabinski (@bdgrabinski) November 7, 2017

looks like david harbour's character from stranger things in the middle of a fatal stroke

Eleanor Ripley
Flushing a Xenomorph into the vacuum of space
They hug your face

— Alex Hannon (@Liffonmelsmork) January 12, 2018

They hug @ u face

I'm ready, man. Check it out. I am the ultimate badass! State-of-the-badass-art! You do not wanna fuck with me. Check it out. Hey, Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate badasses will protect you!

It's a fantastic film, though I question how many of the story beats are innovative, rather than just Cameron displaying a screenwriting ease packing in beats from other films. I feel like its a summation of cinematic action that came before, and a huge weight on what could come after. If any franchise needed a Rian Johnson to confound expectations, it was the Alien franchise after 1986.

you mean like making a sequel where no one has any weapons?

ah yes, rian johnson, the most expectation-confounding filmmaker of our generation

wtf are 'innovative story beats' btw? aliens tells a gripping story, it expands significantly on the world established in the first movie and takes it in new directions, and it deepens our understanding of ripley's character and motivations in surprising new ways, i don't think knocking it because it fails to revolutionise hollywood storytelling conventions really works

I think, maybe, the only innovation (if it can be called that) of this movie is its really awkward, unbalanced structure: it remains an action movie exemplar despite two looooooong stretches with no action. That attests to the sheer quality of said action but also to the quality of the characters, or at least the colorful snappiness of their dialogue.

From 2019, "give the kick-ass woman issues about whether she's a good mother" doesn't really count as surprising.

it wasnt made in 2019 i mean cmon

Speaking of years, I do appreciate that Alien/Aliens were set in what is still now the distant future.

xp, I know but 'surprise' isn't a reaction that takes the timestamp into consideration.

i always forget there's such a long period between the initial arrival of the Marines and the point where shit goes bad; the film keeps up its momentum so well that it flies by.

Cameron's skill with narrative structure and atmosphere has always been impressive, and w/the latter the film's early use of helmet-mounted cameras and motion sensors and heart monitors for each marine (when they flatline it just makes everything more final and chilling*) is just an astonishingly effective way to ante up the dread and oppressiveness.

(*flatlining in cinema is usually a whatever moment, an easy out, and to see it used in this way is a minor testimony to Cameron's directorial abilities.)

I get the criticism about the story beats not being innovative - the bones of it are an off-the-rack 'go on a mission, find the key to your character at the end of it'. All that's missing is a bit at the end where the Queen looks at Ripley and says "we're not so different, you and I..."

cliches? the end where the mother alien *gasp* isn't dead but is holding onto the ship zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, August 20, 2004 8:46 AMBookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah what a boring scene

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, August 20, 2004 8:48 AMBookmark Flag Post Permalink

All that's missing is a bit at the end where the Queen looks at Ripley and says "we're not so different, you and I..."

haha this isn't even missing

(prob the joke)

Another thing I thought of upon re-viewing, is this movie really set the template for a lot of first person shooters, right? With the helmet cams and vitals and whatnot. I'm not much of a gamer, but that really reminds me of how a lot of games are set up. At the least it set the template for "Contra," or so I assume. "Contra" was 1987.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, November 4, 2017 4:01 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah contra is heavily ripped from this, including a lot of the boss visuals and stuff. and it reaches FPSes almost immediately if without such 1:1 connections in DOOM, whose creators had obviously seen this about ten times each.

― Doctor Casino, Saturday, November 4, 2017 4:05 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

(OK, xpost, but I guess Biehn and his wife Jennifer Blanc were producing a line of grind house films? Maybe I saw a press release for one of the more salacious titles and got the wrong idea?)

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, November 4, 2017 4:08 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A lot of the movies lines were nicked and appeared in various FPS games.

― Ste, Monday, November 6, 2017 2:45 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not to mention starcraft

The way Weaver looks at the Queen without saying a word before threatening to incinerate the eggs and the Queen's momentary ceding ground = classic.

I'm amazed that in 1986 the Academy saw through its blinders during the staidest decade of its existence to date and gave a Best Actress nomination to a genre piece.

Anyone who doesn't like this film needs a good thrashing.

Having said that, probably these will all turn out to be balls: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/alien-celebrating-40th-anniversary-6-short-films-1193923

James otm on both counts

Besmirch this movie at your peril

https://68.media.tumblr.com/1b4731564aee8ba541588f50604f9cbe/tumblr_nrnh0x9xR81u2ragso2_500.gif

the effects/sets in this movie look better than any cgi movie

1982 - 1986 was the apogee of film special effects

I think this film has a bit of the Jaws effect. The creature effects are totally superb but it seems likely that in order to hide a bit of the awkwardness of the aliens’ movements Cameron had to keep them in shadow and keep glimpses of them to a minimum, up until we see the queen at the end. It creates this real sense of terror and a scene like Hicks popping up into the ceiling to have a look and his flashlight panning across dozens of these things crawling at him is one of the more nightmarish visuals i recall from my childhood. that and Vasquez/Gorman being cornered in the ventilation shaft gave me some bad dreams as a teen.

Yeah, possibly the only flawed shot in the movie is when the queen's two goons sort of awkwardly shuffle in and out of the scene. For the most part though he just shows you a second or two of various slithering and awful motions, and your brain fills in how the aliens probably walk and attack - - - much scarier and more fluid than anything they could create by having someone in a rubber suit walk across the set. It's amazing how many of the bargain-basement direct-to-video knock-offs (which of course also have even cheaper rubber suits, etc.) manage to screw this up.

same type of quick show/cut used to the same horrifying effect in matrix rave scene

Omar otm

I think because Cameron leans so hard into the meathead action-horror genre it feels like it’s just a dumb alien movie. And in a way it kind of is. But as Omar notes, Cameron makes really good choices in terms of dialing up tension, finessing the action, or playing up the horror moments - the kind of attention to detail that makes it really enjoyable to watch. Mainly because that kind of care & finesse stands out when you’re in a B-movie kinda world.

i think the very unusual Ebert review of this is pretty spot-on, even if in some sense i disagree with it. He admits it's amazing but also admits he didn't enjoy it because of its intensity and constant dread, whereas i totally enjoy it every time. but i understand what he means. i think as far as a film depicting people finding themselves trapped in a desperate situation with no easy way out, it's almost unparalleled. the best thing about it is while there are characters who are not especially bright, none of them do anything especially stupid. they're flawed in recognizable ways. Hudson is an idiot but he doesn't make any dumb tactical errors, he freaks out but never in moments of action, just in moments of downtime. Gorman is in over his head but he's not a craven coward, he just freezes up. Burke flees into a bad spot towards the end, but i mean who the hell wouldn't make a run for it? etc etc...lots of the character types are cliches but their behavior and decision-making makes perfect sense for each one and unlike lesser films they don't behave in ways to artificially change the narrative and story, they're always reacting to what's happening at the moment.

the only thing i question is Burke still thinking about the Company and getting the samples back through quarantine at a time when the survival of the entire team seems pretty unlikely. But Reiser's extremely '80s nervous nice dude comedy style works surprisingly well for the character of an ambitious, sociopathic creep, so it mostly works for me despite that, and i suppose he also figured his survival was a mutually exclusive issue alongside the issue of the alien samples.

agreed

omar otm again, as always

co-sign

'kind've'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFmq2gDwXpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFmq2gDwXpo

hmmm

Man, those AI generated images of Aliens: The Musical

https://preview.redd.it/ksydb2ec0jwa1.png

https://preview.redd.it/kgrzw2ec0jwa1.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/131dhju/aliens_the_musical/

Dammit
https://preview.redd.it/kgrzw2ec0jwa1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=96b8c5cb406a4f99bb8e52d99e47fc24fbfef1fa

https://preview.redd.it/44q0kddc0jwa1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=2f7d648bac46f30dfc30318b2ae48b0fb14305a7

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fu20G4faQAYcgeT?format=jpg&name=medium

lol beautiful