"Ingmar Bergman's films utterly depressing" -- Ingmar Bergman

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Fanny and Alexander is absolutely uplifting!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:03 (fifteen years ago) link

what's the one about the two women and there's some creepy incest subtext?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

i felt like i had been beaten with sticks after that particular film class.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

I think they all have two women and a creepy incest subtext.

I think the one you are thinking about has a mother and her son waiting around in some hotel room or something? The mother is waiting for a phone call from the other woman. Then the boy sees a tank roll through the streets. The end.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:23 (fifteen years ago) link

The Silence is what it is called. I just checked.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:25 (fifteen years ago) link

that's the one that dreyer didn't like

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 11 April 2004 12:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Watching bergman is depressing in a good way. I think "A Passion" may be the greatest film of all time. "Scenes from a Marriage": I pretty well cried all through the first half; and saw it twice more in a row.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 11 April 2004 14:55 (fifteen years ago) link

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

That's Persona.

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 11 April 2004 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

dude in crowd: "but where is the hope?"
bela tarr: "the hope is that you see this film."

prima fassy (mwah), Sunday, 11 April 2004 19:38 (fifteen years ago) link

two years pass...
aaaargh

who wrote the famous piece about not-interviewing bergman?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:05 (thirteen years ago) link

ive seen 4, i dont like him

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:43 (thirteen years ago) link

I think Bergman is great, one of teh greatest filmakers ever. I usually like comedies and stupid movies, but I love his stuff for drama and for its weirdness. I guess being something of a depressive myself, I see myself in some of the characters. Great stuff, especially winter light and the hour of teh wolf

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Smiles of a Summer Night is hilarious.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:49 (thirteen years ago) link


Now in English:

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 12:31 (thirteen years ago) link

I wonder if amateurist ever fixed the Bergman blind side?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 13:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Bergman is the opposite of John Waters when it comes to appreciating anyone else's films. Dude hates everything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link

but didn't he admit to liking "Dallas"?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 18:07 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm sure it was in the context of bashing Sirk or something.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link

When I was 12 I tried to get a sense of superiority by watching the Ingmar Bergman "weekend" on Channel 4... I got through the first ten minutes of the one where the women are looking for a boy named "Ake" (what is that one?)...

I decided in the end that "The Fast Show" just starting on BBC2 would be more valuable for me culture-wise..... Meh.......

JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link

one month passes...
S: What about Bellocchio? Have you seen China Is Near?
B: Terrible, terrible, very homosexual, very artificial, aggressive in a very empty way.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:24 (thirteen years ago) link

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

Even when the film is done, there is no-one I can show it to who gives his sincere opinion. There is silence.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

that's disappointing.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:59 (thirteen years ago) link

So is Bergman as a human being.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 July 2006 16:44 (thirteen years ago) link

"Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia." - Interview with Jan Aghed in the Swedish daily newspaper Sydsvenska Dagbladet (May 2002)

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link

that's not so outlandish.

i don't know, bergman having occasionally questionable taste is something i don't care too much about, it's bergman recklessly insulting other filmmakers that seems a bit gauche. also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link

leaving aside his being a misogynist nazi for a moment, simon's balking at the supposed obscurantism of godard is sort of weird considering his idea of the apogee of cinema is...ingmar bergman's "persona."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link

on orson welles:

"For me he's just a hoax. It's empty. It's not interesting. It's dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of— is all the critics' darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it's a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie's got is absolutely unbelievable."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:00 (thirteen years ago) link

the weird part of that quote is him specifying that he has a copy of it - imagine having a copy of citizen kane!!!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:01 (thirteen years ago) link

what he doesn't say is that it's a VCD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:06 (thirteen years ago) link

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

He doesn't look very glamorous in that link.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link

TS: Ingrid Bergman vs. Ingmar Bergman

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:30 (thirteen years ago) link

funny how she actually ended up in one of his films! i guess they were tired of folks making that joke...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link

amateurist, did you get around to seeing any ingmar films? what d'you think?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link

HE DIRECTS FILMS OF COURSE HE'S A BIG WEIRD ASSHOLE

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:36 (thirteen years ago) link

though I love the religious trilogy.

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:38 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

RIP :-(

Hanna, Monday, 30 July 2007 08:45 (eleven years ago) link

8( have just watched 'Persona' and 'Sawdust And Tinsel' and 'Journey into Autumn' and those two documentaries about him on bbc4 in the last couple of weeks. Seventh Seal has just been re-released in cinemas here too, i must find out where it's on.

koogs, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:09 (eleven years ago) link

rip

hstencil, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:20 (eleven years ago) link

Damn. Damn. Damn.

MsLaura, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:26 (eleven years ago) link

was going to see transformers today but now feel kind of guilty.

Gukbe, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:39 (eleven years ago) link

actually, watching the film with an overwhelming feeling of guilt might be the most fitting tribute to bergman i can think of.

Gukbe, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:42 (eleven years ago) link

:-(

G00blar, Monday, 30 July 2007 10:15 (eleven years ago) link

Robots Is Pissguys

RJG, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:10 (eleven years ago) link

RIP, though, really, and I'll go and see transformers

RJG, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:10 (eleven years ago) link

Ingmar Bergman R.I.P.

Zeno, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:37 (eleven years ago) link

Sexily vile.

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:54 (eight months ago) link

Watching the "Trilogy" first is the correct answer, but I would add...

Dreams is worthwhile, it has a slightly different look for Bergman - more lush I'd say - and excellent performances.

Brink of Life has almost a Hollywood-type structure, though it goes places Hollywood probably wouldn't have in 1958. Recommended.

From the late period, I found From the Life of Marionettes quite interesting, at least stylistically

Dud: The Touch, The Serpent's Egg - his only two English-language films, which may not be coincidental

All These Women is such an oddity in his oeuvre, I don't know whether to call it a dud or a curiosity

Josefa, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 22:54 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

watched The Silence tonight, as soon as I saw that guy on the ladder with the fixed expression of goofy horror/surprise, I was sure this was Bergman's Fellini parody: the dwarves, the male lover holding his shoe by the laces, the setting, the debauchery. I was sure I'd find a whole subsection on the wiki page about this, but nope - lumped in as one of these modernist films, of a piece with Marienbad and Belle du Jour (!). no way. it's such a break for Bergman and an obvious comment on the Italian directors... anyway, The Silence was great and better than all of Fellini's films combined.

flappy bird, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:24 (six months ago) link

now reading that his following film, All These Women, is a straight up 8 1/2 parody

buy the box people

flappy bird, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:27 (six months ago) link

It's out of print already! But they say it'll be available again next month.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Monday, 14 January 2019 08:23 (six months ago) link

Hoping this leads to more big single-director sets.

resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 14 January 2019 08:30 (six months ago) link

me too, & though we probably won't see something as amazing and insane as the Bergman box for a while, directors with 10 or fewer films could be manageable. they already have the Tati box, they could do a Tarkovsky box but Kino has Nostalghia and they just put out The Sacrifice (would be perfectly happy with a nice Mirror disc no matter who puts it out). Bresson is doable.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 03:37 (six months ago) link

I read rumors (on ILX?) that there's supposed to be a big Kiarostami box from CC this year. Maybe that'll turn out just to be the Koker Trilogy.

The Non-Verbal Signs Your Mod Is Giving You (WmC), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 03:57 (six months ago) link

It all comes down to who holds the rights. Bergman and Kurosawa boxes happened because most of their films are owned by single entities who'll mega-license.

It's been floated on other forums that the next collections could be (in addition to Kiarostami) Ozu, Fassbinder, or even a retooled upgrade of Kurosawa, now that some more of his films are in play.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 04:02 (six months ago) link

there's at least a dozen Fassbinder movies that have never had a region 1 release afaik

flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 04:03 (six months ago) link

I could almost see them doing a series of Fassbinder sets ala EMI's Bowie vinyl boxes.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 05:02 (six months ago) link

There's a Tarkovsky box in the UK with all 7 films. The BFI Ozu and Kurosawa releases were annoyingly incomplete though.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 06:59 (six months ago) link

Tarkovsky box (by Curzon/Artificial Eye) is sold out at source and (maybe by accident) includes a terrible transfer of Stalker. Criterion did a stand-alone Stalker which was much better. Agree that it all comes down to who owns the rights but Criterion have also done a restoration of Andrei Rublev recently so maybe the rights could be acquired idk.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:07 (six months ago) link

there've been individual BR releases of everything(?) that was in the dvd box that i bought 5 or 6 years ago, i'd assumed they were all upgrades. and they are all available everywhere (seemingly)

BR box set, £40, amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sculpting-Time-Tarkovsky-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B074ZXQ226/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1547554845&sr=1-1&keywords=Andrei+Tarkovsky

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:21 (six months ago) link

oh, i see now that Ivan, Solaris and Stalker individual BRs are criterion editions and the others are from that box, Artificial Eye versions.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:26 (six months ago) link

oh ok, this is the one I was thinking of (which I have), no idea how the content differs (if at all) from your one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrei-Tarkovsky-Sculpting-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B071L2QVY8/

xp

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:27 (six months ago) link

All of the Artificial Eye Tarkovsky BRs are meant to be 'remastered'. I bought the stand alone Nostalgia disc for £6 in Fopp - it is a significant upgrade on their previous, abysmal DVD, but still doesn't look that sparkling. Anagram is right that the Criterion Stalker - and Solaris - BRS available in the UK are much superior, and I'm guessing that their Andrei Rublev will be as well (I'm not even sure which cut of Rublev AE used for their disc).

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:30 (six months ago) link

Funnily enough I've been looking into this recently (this should really be on a Tarkovsky thread, but since we're here...) Criterion just did a new BR restoration of Andrei Rublev which contains both the 185m (Tarkovsky-approved) cut and a longer 205m cut, but it's only been released in the US (so Region 1 only) and is unlikely to be released in the UK since it contains a scene of animal cruelty which contravenes UK film legislation. (I assume all currently available UK versions don't contain this scene.) Criterion won't release the uncut version in the UK.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:39 (six months ago) link

*cut* version, I meant to say.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:40 (six months ago) link

The BBFC are notoriously inconsistent when it comes to animal cruelty in films - generally, the artier the movie, the more lenient they are, so they might well pass the full version of Rublev uncut. As I understand it, Tarkovsky himself came to prefer the slightly shorter version, tho it is good to be offered the choice.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:44 (six months ago) link

so Linn Ullmann, who's written several novels, has finally penned one based on her relationship with her famous parents. She was profiled in the NYT Magazine last week.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 January 2019 18:41 (six months ago) link

Reading the Linn Ullmann book now, it's good. Lotsa detail about IB's personal habits, daily life at the house on Fåro, and the complicated dynamics of the Bergman/Ullmann family. Passages where she's trying to interview her dad as he's entering his dotage near the end are naturally pretty sad. Not yet clear on why this is called a novel instead of a straight-up memoir with names omitted.

Josefa, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:46 (five months ago) link

two months pass...

RIP Bibi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UMbvohZ_iY

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:18 (three months ago) link

:-(

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:59 (three months ago) link

otherwise fine NY Times obit has a mistake in it:

In addition to winning four Guldbagge Awards, the Swedish equivalent of the Oscar, she was named best actress at the Cannes Film Festival in 1958 for “Nara Livet” (“Brink of Life”), sharing the award with three co-stars, and best actress at the Berlin Film Festival in 1963 for the title role in “Alskarinnan” (“The Mistress”). Paradoxically (and surprisingly, to many), neither was a Bergman film.

Brink of Life is a Bergman film, and a great one at that. Not sure of its availability outside the Criterion boxset.

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 23:51 (three months ago) link

one month passes...

It's still second tier Bergman -- the script is worse than the direction -- but I've realized I've been wrong about Autumn Sonata because I've denied how closely it cuts to the bone. I know way too many mothers and daughters in this same cycle of rage and affection.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:55 (one month ago) link

I've started working my way again through Bergman chronologically, I've only gotten to Port of Call so far. Can't wait til I get to the later stuff

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:59 (one month ago) link

I'm working my way through the big criterion collection box. Still only about a quarter of the way through. Trying to keep track of my Bergman power rankings as I proceed. There have been some nice surprises so far and a couple duds. A whole bunch of ones I've never seen before too.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:58 (one month ago) link

I saw The Virgin Spring yesterday at sort of a sparsely attended screening. even knowing the movie going in I underestimated how unbelievably harrowing and intense it is on a big screen and with other people, who were all either dead silent or openly weeping.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 04:03 (one month ago) link

that's the kind of screening I want to attend

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:06 (one month ago) link

I just realized I've never seen any of his films on the big screen. Hopefully I'll be able to rectify that someday.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:10 (one month ago) link

To me "showing cycles of rage and affection" is something that makes it 1st tier. Can't say I know what you mean on the direction, probably because I don't quite know how to evaluate that stuff.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:42 (one month ago) link

The staging and framing are often A+; the writing too on-the-nose (probably one offscreen death too many).

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:27 (one month ago) link

I reckon he takes quite a lot of risks with that script, hence maybe why you feel it's on-the-nose.

It does feel like Bergman is doing a session of psychoanalysis and ends up breaking people lol.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:59 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

was Summer With Monika really the film that made US critics/audiences recognize that Sweden had a more sexually liberated culture? if so, that’s interesting

Dan S, Saturday, 6 July 2019 01:00 (two weeks ago) link

I loved Smiles of a Summer Night

Dan S, Saturday, 13 July 2019 23:31 (one week ago) link

That was a new one to me when I got the criterion set, and it's probably my favorite find, absolutely delightful.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 14 July 2019 04:11 (one week ago) link

his best comedy - his only good comedy? the ones I've seen (Waiting Women and All These Women) are terrible

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 July 2019 05:16 (one week ago) link

Have never seen The Devils's Eye, is that a bad comedy too?

Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2), Sunday, 14 July 2019 08:51 (one week ago) link

I'd like to hear any review of The Devil's Eye, one of the very few classic period Bergmans I've not seen.

HIs birthday today - 101

Josefa, Sunday, 14 July 2019 14:22 (one week ago) link


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