Baseball Books

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a thread for talking about baseball books.

actually, i'm just starting this because i ordered the neyer/james guide to pitchers the other day. it's basically an enyclopedia of pitchers and pitches. i'm trying to find a nice bullet outline somewhere but it apparently contains:

-articles describing all the major pitches, how they're thrown, what they do, who threw them the best, etc
-a register of every major mlb pitcher (1000 innings/400 games) and their repetoires
-assorted pitcher biographies and pitching-related essays

there's an excerpt, obviously written by james, over at espn: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1822135

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 03:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm glad you brought up this topic. I had a couple of hours to kill the other day between work and my softball game, so I spent most of that time at B&N reading through parts of Neyer's Big Book of Baseball Lineups. Mainly I just read the Astros chapter. Fascinating stuff. I learned a lot of things I didn't know about the team that I thought I knew everything about, so I can only imagine what kind of info the rest of the book contains.

Another one I ran across that looked pretty cool was something called 9 Innings by Daniel Okrent. Basically, its a pitch-by-pitch, inning-by-inning account of a 1982 regular season game between the Milwaukee Brewers and the Baltimore Orioles, with lots of back story woven in about the players, managers, and owners (including one Bud Selig). I read till about two outs in the top of the first and witnessed a Lenn Sekata leadoff homer off of Bob McClure. It reads somewhat like it's aimed at the baseball novice, but it's not too dumbed down to be enjoyable.

boldbury (boldbury), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 04:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I just bought the Neyer/James Pitchers Book last weekend, have only thumbed through it so far; there's not only the "census" section of all notable hurlers in history (well, no Kyle Farnsworth, but Brandon Webb, Firpo Marberry and Charlie Brown are in there) and what they threw, but essays on some HOF-quality non-HOF pitchers (Tommy Bridges, Bob Friend) and a detailed glossary of pitch types. (btw, James says in the intro that Neyer -- his former assistant -- did most of the work.)

The Neyer Lineups book is well worth getting too, years of bathroom enjoyment to be had.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 12:39 (nineteen years ago) link

The Neyer Lineups book is well worth getting too, years of bathroom enjoyment to be had.

Seriously Morbs. Years? There aren't that many photos in the book.

boldbury (boldbury), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Clearly you underestimate the appeal of baggy wool.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait til you guys hit 40 and spend more time in the john.

Neyer & James on ESPN chat yesterday:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=5430


One of the Ed Linn books James recommends, the co-authored autobio "Veeck as in Wreck," I recall from my dad's bookshelf; probably the first baseball book I read most of, succeeded by Roger Kahn's profanely nostalgic "The Boys of Summer" on the '50s Dodgers (and Kahn's '30s/40s boyhood).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait til you guys hit 40 and spend more time in the john.

Oh, I hear ya. The men in my family call it the "Oldbury Curse".

Maybe this was TMI.

boldbury (boldbury), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:33 (nineteen years ago) link

ooooh I so need Veeck as in Wreck.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:02 (nineteen years ago) link

i've read: moneyball, the recent koufax bio (eh), ball four (great! otto's recommendation).

I am getting started on "The Boys Of Summer" (morbius' recommendation). it's a little bit more sepia toned but i like it so far.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:25 (nineteen years ago) link

George Will's "Men at Work" is a good read.

earlnash, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't think i've ever tried a...narrative style baseball book (ie something you'd read from beginning to end), other than moneyball. but i might try one or two of the rec's on this thread some time.

as for flip open and read baseball books, every fan should own a copy of james' NHBA. am i the only person here who has a copy? i hawk it at every opportunity everywhere because i'm sure it would appeal to anyone with an interest in the game.

so "profanely nostalgic" is a compliment?? i guess i read that differently.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

David Halberstam's books on the '64 Cardinals and the '49 Sox/Yankees are good reads.

I saw a new book at Barnes & Noble following a season in the Cape Cod League, but I'll wait to take a chance on it in paperback.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

"David Halberstam's books on the '64 Cardinals and the '49 Sox/Yankees are good reads."
i'm immediately interested in both of these. "summer of 49" and "october 1964"?

the cape cod league has always fascinated me, the "summer in maine" aspect of it as much as anything else.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link

That's the two. I see them at used bookstores all the time, if you've got one near you. I got a hardcover "Summer of '49" for $5 a few weeks ago.

'49 is U&K if you're a Yankees fan. He paints a really nice portrait of Joe D., which may or may be complete BS, but I prefer to believe it's true.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link

the NY Times review bummed me on the idea of the new '86 Mets book. Not enough specifics on drugging and whoring.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link

I came damn close to picking up the Mets book to see how the other half lived, but decided to wait since I hadn't heard anything about it.

I'll big up Ball Four and the Halberstam books, and add Tom Adelman's The Long Ball, which is about the '75 season (ostensibly it's about the Series, but it really rambles through the season like one of those four-page SI pre-playoffs recaps, except book-length). I've also got this big monstrosity called The Baseball Chronicle -- I can't see from here who the publisher is -- that sold cheap at the discount tables at Barnes & Noble and covers highlights year by year up to ... 2001, I think, maybe 2002.

I have The Physics of Baseball sitting on my desk waiting to be read, but it's still waiting.

Ken Burns' book doesn't seem like it's actually meant to be read, so I suppose it's a good baseball coffeetable book.

Spaceman's Little Red Sox Book is fun -- I keep meaning to buy it, but just ... well, read a chapter or two at a time in the bookstore, to be honest. It's pretty slim.

And I've only read excerpts of and articles by Roger Angell, but he seems worth picking up.

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:04 (nineteen years ago) link

(And in case novels come up, let me caution you against W.P. Kinsella's If Wishes Were Horses, which is so relentlessly terrible it made me like his good stuff less.)

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't give you a citation, Milo, but Halberstam's two books have been nailed for being absolutely riddled with factual errors -- easily checkable ones. I recall DiMag was reported to hate the '49 book for whatever reasons.

You said in the other thread someone gave you "Win Shares." Man, that's one James book I knew was NOT for me -- too much pure theory. And he said in the ESPN chat this week "I made four significant mistakes in the design of Win Shares; four that I know of. I am making notes about a next-generation of Win Shares..." So why lay out $20 for a work in progress?

Like I was telling h at the park last night, a friend reports "The Bad Guys Won" is worth it just for dumb ballplayer anecdotes, and the excerpt I read involving the Animal House destruction of the post-pennant-winning charter flight out of Houston (complete with puking wives) was good Flushing Confidential stuff. Nothing about Keith Hernandez's rumored liaison with the San Diego Chicken, alas.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Kinsella's Iowa Baseball Confederacy is terrible, too. The only good baseball-related fiction I've read was Philip Roth's Great American Novel

I kind of figured Halberstam's books leaned toward the fiction end when it comes to actual facts, but it doesn't bother me that much.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:03 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd make a joke about the facts not bothering milo much but I'll refrain.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...
Alan Schwarz, guy who does the Sunday NY Times "new stats" column Keeping Score, has a history of baseball stats I just finished, "The Numbers Game":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312322224/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/002-5408102-5480027


Filled with stuff I didn't know, from the 1860s through 2004 (did you know this was the first year Topps hadOPS on the back of cards?), from Henry Chadwick (father of the boxscore as we know it) to VOROS McCRACKEN and beyond! Many of you will beshocked at how OLD many sabermetric concepts are... It's also quite hilarious how, in the Stone Age of computers, so many stat mavens worked for the military and used the mainframes to run their baseball numbers at night. Stuff on Strat-o-Matic andother games, the Elias Bureau vs Bill James war, STATS Inc, and how Oakland became the first on-base-centric franchise TWENTY YEARS before Billy Beane (via Sandy Alderson and Steve Boros).

(particularly recommended to Alex in SF)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 November 2004 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahaha fuck off.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I'll check it out though. It looks interesting enough.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Let's play nice!

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link

We are! I'm totally sincere in wanting Alex to read it, and am never offended by a friendly "Fuck off."

Has anyone seen the new Bill James handbook? Coliseum Books on 42nd usually has it by now...

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 November 2004 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

the sandy alderson stuff was mentioned, practically in passing, in moneyball! i didn't get that either, must've been because it didn't mesh well enough w/ the narrative, or had to edited out for length. it was like "billy beane would be NOTHING w/out sandy alderson, who did all this shit before he did. ok moving on"

John (jdahlem), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:40 (nineteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...
i seem to remember reading a little while ago about a new book coming out by some top baseball website that was all about last year's red sox world series win, but i now can't work out what it is - anyone? and is it any good?

also, tips of books for someone who knows pretty much nothing about baseball, except for what i managed to glean from watching a few games on tv, would be appreciated.

toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:35 (eighteen years ago) link


Baseball Prospectus' "Mind Game" book

Yes, it's good.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm reading The Wrong Stuff by Bill "Spaceman" Lee right now... it's pretty hilarious.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link

two years pass...

friend of a friend is putting out a graphic novel about satchel paige and jim crow...

http://www.cartoonstudies.org/books/paige/sample.html

j.q higgins, Thursday, 13 December 2007 18:56 (sixteen years ago) link

the new Connie Mack bio by Norman Macht is sposed to be definitive.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 December 2007 19:57 (sixteen years ago) link

three months pass...

I am enjoying that Neyer/James Book of Pitchers.

Got randyrolled yesterday.

Instead of the copy of Christy Mathewson's Pitching in a Pinch that I ordered, I got this.

felicity, Thursday, 3 April 2008 20:28 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.amazon.com/You-Gotta-Have-Robert-Whiting/dp/067972947X

Belisarius, Friday, 4 April 2008 07:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Oh! I just read about that book and "wa" in the Cubs spring program.

It said that cultural differences between Japan and America were responsible for the Giants' inability to retain Manasori Murikami after 1965. Apparently the MLB negotiators were more strict in their reading of the reserve clause, whereas the Japanese expected the "spririt" of the deal to prevail. The article was pretty brief but I gather that the "spirit" referred to was that NPB used to send "non-prospects" to the U.S. for seasoning, and when Murikami turned into an actual MLB prspect, they felt that he should go back to Japan, despite the literal meaning of the contract language. It sounds like Murikami (semi-) voluntarily returned to NLP, even though he technically could have stayed in the U.S. under his contract.

I guess it was only because Nomo found some sort of legal loophole in the standard NLP contract that allowed him to sign with the Dodgers in the 1980s. Perhaps that represented some historical cultural shift in Japan's attitude to contract. More recently they seem to have stood on the letter of contract (much to their profit).

It didn't explain the "posting" process that well. Apparently Fukudome didn't have to be posted like other recent Japanese players.

"Wa" (group harmony) is neat. Let us bury our tomahawks and have wa on ILBB.

felicity, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:30 (sixteen years ago) link

two months pass...

Just read Summer of '49 -- was kinda hoping for a 50/50 split regarding Sox / Yankees nostalgia-tinted schmooze, & not back-in-the-day when-men-were-men Yankeeography action clumsily intercut w/ "these are fans!" anecdotes. (Unrelated: every time DH leaned on Triple Crown stats or W-L records, I rolled my eyes.) Some cool stories & quotes & stuff, but doesn't really seem to congeal as a book so much, and "the great DiMaggio" can go fart in a hat.

Also read excerpts of that O'Nan / King 2004 Red Sox diary thing a while back. Whatever interest I had in pro-RSN propoganda was totally squelched by that piece of shit.

NB: I hate everything. :p

David R., Friday, 13 June 2008 17:39 (fifteen years ago) link

the o'nan/king book was interesting early because that team did take a dip that looked like it would be their annual august swoon and o'nan totally starts ripping the team. but when they hold on and the playoffs it was too much even for me.

chicago kevin, Friday, 13 June 2008 17:47 (fifteen years ago) link

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/14260000/14268611.JPG

mookieproof, Saturday, 14 June 2008 03:14 (fifteen years ago) link

I read "Summer of '49" when I was fifteen or so. I found it a bit long-winded and boring. No need to revisit it, I guess? :)

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 15 June 2008 15:33 (fifteen years ago) link

apparently it's full of errors.

Dr Morbius, Monday, 16 June 2008 14:56 (fifteen years ago) link

eight months pass...

We're pleased to make two major announcements to the SABR membership and the baseball community at large:

1) SABR is now the publisher of The Emerald Guide to Baseball, and
2) SABR is making the PDF version of The Emerald Guide to Baseball 2009 available as a FREE download from the members-only section of the website (and be sure to direct friends and family to sabr.org so they can get a copy too).

Edited by acclaimed baseball historians (and SABR members) Gary Gillette and Pete Palmer, The Emerald Guide distills the 2008 season down to 586 fact-filled pages that contain the pitching, fielding, and hitting statistics for every player active in the major and minor leagues in 2008. The Emerald Guide fills the hole in the baseball record left by the 2006 demise of the Sporting News Baseball Guide and contains all of the same features and then some, such as team-by-team daily results, a directory of important contacts, and a synopsis of the just-completed season. A bound version of The Emerald Guide is available via print on demand at Lulu.com for $23.94.

Making the PDF of The Emerald Guide available fre to anyone with accesss to a computer is a direct way for SABR to fulfill its mission of disseminating the history and record of baseball. And you, our members, help the organization fulfill this mission each and every day. One of our objectives is for sabr.org to be bookmarked by everyone with a serious interest in baseball. The Emerald Guide offers a step in that direction.

SABR plans to publish The Emerald Guide annually. Gillette and Palmer also authored 2007 and 2008 editions of The Emerald Guide (co-published with Sports-Reference). Free PDF versions of these editions are also available from the SABR website.

Thank you for your commitment to SABR and its mission. We hope you enjoy The Emerald Guide to Baseball 2009.

Sincerely,

John Zajc, Executive Director

http://sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,2766,36,0

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 11 March 2009 20:28 (fifteen years ago) link

fwiw, i third (?) bellisarius and felicity's recommendation of you gotta have wa. it provides a lot of interesting history of japanese baseball even if it's bit dated at this point. it would be interesting to see a new edition taking into account ichiro, matsui et al on one hand and bobby valentine on the other.

anybody have an opinion on that somewhat recent dimaggio bio? i think the author was richard cramer?

j.q higgins, Thursday, 12 March 2009 11:56 (fifteen years ago) link

has anone bought the Fielding Bible II? Froma BP interview with author John Dewan:

The one thing I'd bring up that was kind of fun, was the analysis of Nate McLouth and Carlos Gomez; McLouth won a Gold Glove, and Gomez didn't. Carlos Gomez had the most defensive misplays in center field, which is a characteristic of young players that we've found; other young players up there are Delmon Young, B.J. Upton, and his brother, Justin Upton. All of these players have more defensive misplays. But Carlos Gomez covers so much more ground, that it just shows through on the number of runs saved. The difference that we found between Nate McLouth and Carlos Gomez was amazingly straightforward. Simply, Gomez is covering ground in deep center field, where fielding a ball is much more valuable, than Nate McLouth, who covers more ground in shallow center field, where making a catch means that you're saving a single. Gomez, meanwhile, is saving doubles and triples. It looks to be that the biggest problem for Nate McLouth is that he should play deeper. He has good skills and a lot of good fielding plays in our system, but when we break it down between shallow, medium, and deep, which is something we did in the book this year, he's plus on shallow balls, and minus on medium and deep.

also measures Varitek as worst recent Boston catcher, lol

Past a Diving Jeter (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 March 2009 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah that was weird though cuz it sort of seemed like the return of CERA which seems very suspect.

Alex in SF, Friday, 20 March 2009 21:28 (fifteen years ago) link

two months pass...

The Society for American Baseball Research (SABR) is pleased to announce the winners of the 2008 SABR-Sporting News Awards: Ron Selter for Ballparks of the Deadball Era; Andy Strasberg, Bob Thompson and Tim Wiles for Baseball's Greatest Hit; and Jim Walker and Rob Bellamy for Center Field Shot: A History of Baseball on Television. The winners will receive their awards on Saturday, August 1, 2009, in Washington, DC, at the JW Marriott, Pennsylvania Avenue during SABR's annual convention.

The Sporting News-SABR Baseball Research Award recognizes outstanding baseball research published in the previous calendar year in areas other than history and biography. The Award is designed to honor projects that do not fit the criteria for The Seymour Medal or the McFarland-SABR Baseball Research Award. The Sporting News sponsors the $200 cash awards that accompany the honor.

Ballparks of the Deadball Era is Ronald Selter's comprehensive study of Deadball Era-ballparks and park effects, in which he shows the extent to which ballparks determined the style of play. Organized by major league city, this fact-filled, data-heavy commentary includes all 34 ballparks used by the American and National Leagues from 1901 through 1919.

In Baseball's Greatest Hit, Strasberg, Thompson, and Wiles present the complete story of the third-most frequently sung song in America: “Take Me Out to the Ballgame.” The book features countless photos and illustrations, providing a pictorial history of the song’s influence on the game and American culture. A bonus CD is also included, which features many rare and classic recordings of the song from artists such as Dr. John, the Ray Brown Trio, Carly Simon, and George Winston.

In Center Field Shot, Walker and Bellamy trace the sometimes contentious but mutually beneficial relationship between baseball and television, from the first televised game in 1939 to the contemporary era of Internet broadcasts, satellite radio, and high-definition TV. Ultimately, the association of baseball with television emerges as a reflection American culture at large.

Dr Morbius, Friday, 22 May 2009 01:19 (fourteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

Baseball America's top ten of '09:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/book-guide/2009/269330.html

Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 5 January 2010 08:55 (fourteen years ago) link

one month passes...

dude's got a blog too!

http://www.bighairplasticgrass.com/

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 00:26 (fourteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...

i haven't read dirk hayhurst's book(s) so maybe he talks about this? (although tbf he was always marginal)

players in the minor leagues are trying desperately to *not* be in the minor leagues. they're in direct competition with their own teammates in a zero-sum game. but at the same time they're expected to publicly support each other in search of a Texas League title lol

there's a book to be written about that (even apart from the at-large racism of organized baseball)

(also 'sugar' was a good movie)

mookieproof, Friday, 24 March 2023 06:42 (one year ago) link

By the way, I should mention that the impetus for me to read this book was seeing this comic about it.

limb tins & cum (gyac), Friday, 24 March 2023 10:45 (one year ago) link

Finished Ball Four properly - all the post-career updates.

I went from finding Bouton irritating to more sympathetic. He wrote about his daughter Laurie‘s death with such tenderness and in such pain, and how it affected him. As he aged, he gained more perspective on his life. I loved his later life meeting with Steve Hovley, and that conversation he had with Gary Bell where they talk about modern players and all the money they make. He even has perspective on how pitchers are better cared for now - this is even truer now than it was in the later texts.

But yeah, as above: the perspective shift only reminds me of the original things I didn’t like much about his narration. An absolutely essential book.

limb tins & cum (gyac), Thursday, 30 March 2023 20:14 (one year ago) link

One of the most moving things--not sure if it's in there--is when, after decades of Mantle not talking to him, Bouton took the initiative and contacted him when Mantle's son died of cancer: (Wikipedia) "Bouton tried several times to make peace with Mantle, but not until Bouton sent a condolence note after Mantle's son Billy died of cancer in 1994 did Mantle contact Bouton. The two former teammates reconciled not long before Mantle's death in 1995."

clemenza, Thursday, 30 March 2023 20:42 (one year ago) link

Yeah it is in there. It was very touching.

limb tins & cum (gyac), Thursday, 30 March 2023 20:44 (one year ago) link

By the way, even though Baseball Reference discontinued their page sponsorships, they grandfathered a few around that, and I'm proud to say I'm still the sponsor of Joe Schultz's page:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schuljo05.shtml

His player page--I tried to get his manager page first but I think someone else had it, or maybe it cost a lot more--but it's still Joe.

clemenza, Sunday, 9 April 2023 17:58 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Got a few at the town sale yesterday, including the International League yearbook for the 1987 season. I got excited thinking it would be filled with future HOF'ers, but no: scanning league leaders for both hitters and pitchers, the only one I can spot is Glavine, 18th in ERA. I do see the names of numerous future Jays: Mike Sharperson, Rob Ducey, Manny Lee, Lou Thorton, Sil Campusano, David ("Dave") Wells, Duane Ward, etc. The Jays had a strong farm system then. Two other names: John Gibbons, Bill Beane.

Going to start on Pat Jordan's The Suitors of Spring. Jordan was one of SI's key baseball writers in the '70s; I remember an excerpt in the magazine from A False Spring, his memoir of his own minor-league pitching career. Never read the book, but the piece ended memorably, with him completing something like a two-hit shutout and thinking he'd finally arrived. The Suitors of Spring, from '74, has essays on eight pitchers, including Seaver, McDowell, Johnny Sain, and Steve Dalkowski (9 minor league seasons, 956 IP, 1324 K, 1236 BB).

clemenza, Thursday, 11 May 2023 15:10 (eleven months ago) link

three weeks pass...

I’m reading Jason Turbow’s The Baseball Codes, which is about the unwritten rules of the game. Ty to Mookieproof for this! So far my favourite chapter is about retaliation:

That the Royals were willing to wait a full season for revenge hardly set precedent. Take the time in 1973 when A’s outfielder Billy North let go of his bat as he swung at an offering from Kansas City rookie Doug Bird, sending it sailing toward shortstop Freddie Patek. North jogged out to retrieve his lumber, but stopped at the mound on the way to ask the startled pitcher, “Do you remember me?” Bird replied that he did not. “I remember you,” said North. “From Quincy.” Then, to the surprise of everybody, he started swinging. “We were all stunned,” said A’s second baseman Phil Garner, watching from the dugout. “Everybody was stunned.” “We were on the bench saying, ‘What the hell’s going on?’” said A’s catcher Ray Fosse. “They started fighting, so we as teammates ran out, and so did the Royals. When it was all over, we all asked, ‘What the hell just happened?’”

What the hell happened was that in 1970, when North was a twenty-two-year-old playing for Quincy, Illinois, of the Single-A Midwest League, he had the misfortune of coming to the plate against Bird, then twenty years old and playing for Waterloo. The two batters ahead of North had connected for home runs, and Bird responded by brushing North back. After the hitter had words with Waterloo’s catcher, Bird’s next pitch drilled him in the helmet. North missed three days. That was the last time the two shared a baseball diamond as minor-leaguers. North got called up to Oakland the following season, and two years later, when he saw the transaction wire indicating that Bird had joined the Royals, he began counting down the days until Kansas City came to town.


Alas, there does not seem to be video of this. Great, great book. I feel as though a lot of these unwritten rules are softer - and I recognise what they say about players being hit by pitches cos you do see them react now - or lapsed and I’m fine with that as a spectator, but it’s great to know more about the history of the game’s culture.

TY FRANCE HATES TEXAS CONFIRMED (gyac), Monday, 5 June 2023 18:24 (ten months ago) link

three weeks pass...

About halfway through the Pat Jordan book I mentioned above, The Suitors of Spring. There's a long chapter, "The Old Hand with a Prospect," about Woody Huyke--career minor-league catcher, "organization man" who obligingly goes wherever he's sent, hoping to maybe get a coaching job in the majors one day--and his relationship with Bruce Kison, 20 at the time and a year away from his famous middle-relief game in the '71 Series. It reminded me so much of Bull Durham, which I know is based on Ron Shelton's own minor-league experiences, but I bet he'd at least read Jordan's book when he sat down to write it.

Huyke never got his major-league coaching job, but:

He managed in the Pirates' organization from 1974 through 1989, and 1990 through 2004. He voluntarily stepped down as manager after the 2004 season, remaining with the Gulf Coast League Pirates as a coach. One of Woody's early successes, in 1989, was identifying Tim Wakefield's potential as a knuckleball pitcher (at the time, Wakefield was a light-hitting first baseman) and convincing the Pittsburgh Pirates organization not to release him.

Still alive; Kison died five years ago.

clemenza, Friday, 30 June 2023 15:14 (nine months ago) link

Anybody read Evan Drellich's Winning Changes Everything? A friend writes that it's

a look at the Luhnow-era Astros that offers: a) a case-study reckoning with two decades of league-wide Moneyball cloning; and b) a sobering portrait of Alex Cora in his Houston days (a drunkard and a lout, according to Drellich).

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 July 2023 13:17 (nine months ago) link

The Sam McDowell chapter in the Pat Jordan book is a time-capsule snapshot of the baseball mindset just a few years before James published his first Abstract. Jordan dwells on how immensely talented McDowell is, and how that doesn't translate into gaudy W-L records. He never outright says it, but the unspoken message of the chapter is that McDowell just doesn't know how to win. He's too preoccupied with his hobbies (he paints, he's a gunsmith), he's got "too much stuff" (and therefore never had to learn how to pitch), etc., etc. Mostly, it's an obscure character flaw that holds him back: "He seems to be afraid that if he let his talent grow to its fulfillment he might cease to possess it, and it, in turn, would possess him. So he treats his talent like some unruly growth he must periodically prune before it becomes unmanageable." Huh?

What isn't mentioned: his alcoholism (understandable--probably not public knowledge when Jordan profiled him) or (barely; there's one brief acknowledgement) the mediocre teams he played for. Cleveland wasn't as bad as I thought--they had 86- and 87-win seasons during McDowell's tenure there--but they were usually under .500, and bottomed out at 60 and 62 wins.

From everything I've ever read about McDowell, it does sound like he was his own worst enemy, so I'm not saying Jordan doesn't get at something. But psychoanalyzing his W-L record is such a time capsule.

(Personal corroboration: on that 1972 trip to spring training my family took--I've posted photos here--I have a distinct memory of my dad talking to one of the players, maybe even Harry Walker, about the recent McDowell/Gaylord Perry trade. Whoever it was said that Cleveland got the better of the deal because Perry was a "winner" and McDowell wasn't. Subsequent events proved him right, but I don't think for the reason he thought.)

clemenza, Tuesday, 4 July 2023 15:20 (nine months ago) link

three weeks pass...

I don't think a team-wide cheating scandal is going to hurt Altuve one bit. It'll be ancient history. If he makes it to 3000 hits, most people aren't going to be talking about 2017, they're gonna be talking about his 3000 hits. They'll talk about his Astros winning 4 pennants in 6 years (or whatever it ends up being). And they'll talk about how short he is and how unlikely his story was. Jaffe himself says that Altuve will probably go in with 3000 hits.

― ✖, Sunday, June 4, 2023 8:21 PM

Finished Andy Martino's Cheated, which is mostly about the Astros but also covers all the other rumoured and actual sign-stealing going on the past few years (plus a pre-history: Bobby Thomson, etc.). I mostly agree with ✖'s post, but not entirely. The book makes clear that Altuve was much less eager to take part than other Astros, and, numerically, received the assistance of far fewer garbage-can signals than others. But a) he did receive some--maybe 20 to their 200, although that may have been more, because sometimes the signal was no-bang, and b) his series-winning HR off Chapman in the 2019 ALCS is very murky: Altuve clearly signals as he approaches home plate that no one is to remove his jersey in all the celebrations, possibly because he was hiding some kind of signal-giving apparatus, or maybe for a more benign reason. Martino presents a couple of other possible explanations, but he doesn't commit one way or the other. History tends to simplify, so Altuve's role is ambiguous enough, I think, that all that will be remembered is that he was on that team and part of all that.

Two things I didn't know: 1) Verlander and Cole may have benefitted from doctored baseballs. I always assumed that Astros pitchers were exempt outside of additional run support, and that since no one cares about pitcher wins anymore anyway, that wouldn't matter to something like HOF viability. It seems obvious Verlander won't be affected, but it does look like he's not blameless. 2) The worst offender in terms of numerically documented trash-can signals was Springer. Which would explain the non-stop booing he got in L.A. a few days ago.

Beltran, hard to say. He was heavily involved, but at the same time, he did seem to be scapegoated--only player specifically named in the report--possibly because of earlier issues he'd won when he'd taken on MLB.

clemenza, Sunday, 30 July 2023 17:39 (eight months ago) link

By the doctored baseballs do you mean the spider tack stuff? Cos that was known regarding those two, but a lot more guys than them benefited from it. Manoah famously called Cole the biggest cheater in the modern game (!) because of it.

a love song for connor wong (gyac), Sunday, 30 July 2023 17:51 (eight months ago) link

No index, so I can't look it up specifically...It had to do with clubhouse people rubbing up the baseballs pre-game; the Astros pitchers would use the ones that had more or less of whatever they used. Maybe that's the same thing you're talking about. I knew Cole had issues, but I thought that had to do with stuff he was allegedly doing during the game.

clemenza, Sunday, 30 July 2023 19:15 (eight months ago) link

I do recommend the book. Like a lot of people, I was half-paying attention when the story broke wide open in 2020, but then COVID happened and my attention turned elsewhere.

clemenza, Sunday, 30 July 2023 19:16 (eight months ago) link

Oh that’s interesting, no it’s not the same thing, will check it out for sure 👍🏻

a love song for connor wong (gyac), Sunday, 30 July 2023 19:20 (eight months ago) link

Here's Altuve's HR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC34yua88z0

At 6:25, Ken Rosenthal actually asks him why he was signaling not to tear his shirt.

clemenza, Sunday, 30 July 2023 19:40 (eight months ago) link

Gausman had some choice words about it, don’t know if you ever saw it. Kind of shocking they never punished any players.

This Astros thing is bad!!! Guys lost jobs, got sent down, missed service time bc of how they were hit in HOU. Does anyone really think they only did this in 17? #getreal

— Kevin Gausman (@KevinGausman) November 14, 2019

a love song for connor wong (gyac), Sunday, 30 July 2023 19:44 (eight months ago) link

That's stressed in the book; nine pitchers lost their jobs right after a loss to the Astros in 2017 (one of them sued). Honestly, I think the timing of COVID and the lost season had a lot to do with it--within weeks of blowing up, the story was dwarfed by events. Also, to get people to talk, MLB had to (or at least decided they had to) offer players immunity

clemenza, Sunday, 30 July 2023 19:51 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6UuxPabMAAT-wA?format=jpg&name=large

mookieproof, Tuesday, 19 September 2023 20:48 (seven months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Thought it made sense to move this here. Relevant lead-in, the first six posts here:

2023 NLDS: Atlanta Braves vs. Philadelphia Phillies

I think there's legitimate room for disagreement here. As I've said many times, I'm always amused when the defender of a controversial book or movie or whatever--in this case, me and Ball Four--is surprised or annoyed that not everyone agrees with him. Ball Four divides people, even today--I get that, and if we disagree, we disagree.

With that in mind--and I've probably posted some variation on most of these thoughts already in this thread--if you're going to write Ball Four, I believe you need to write Ball Four. If you want to move the sports book forward, you can't walk up to a line of privacy, back off, and end up writing the same old sports book. If Bouton hadn't done it, someone else would have. And if no one ended up ever crossing that line, maybe we'd still think of Mickey Mantle as this 100% heroic figure who used to hang around the park for hours after the game signing autographs for kids.

It's like a friend of mine who once told me he loves the first Schoolly-D album, he just wishes it weren't so profane and so out of step with acceptable discourse today. Okay...but without that, it's not the first Schoolly-D album it's something else. If you were to take Taxi Driver and make Jodie Foster 19 instead of 12, make Travis a flawed but well-meaning vigilante instead of a racist psychopath, that might make it more acceptable to some people, but it wouldn't be Taxi Driver anymore. If you want to write Ball Four, you have to write Ball Four.

And, again, I don't think there's an ounce of malice in anything Bouton wrote, or any attempt to shame anyone. All the stupid stuff he writes about--behaviours both silly and much, much worse--he knows it's all part of the game he loves. People he has zero in common with--Gene Brabender, Fred Norman--he enjoys their company. Sibby Sisti, who's nothing but a full-time annoyance hanging around for a pension, Bouton gives him what I count as the funniest line in the book. I think even Sal Maglie, the one guy he clearly doesn't like, makes him laugh once or twice. And he of course adores Joe Schultz, and that comes through.

(I also believe Bouton when he says that, at a certain point in the season, everyone knew he was writing something. Players would come up to him and say "Here's a good story for your book." He'd drop his pen on the mound and some coach would casually pick it up without saying anything, clearly knowing something was up.)

As far as the ethics of journalism, I don't know the geography of a clubhouse, but is it taken for granted that anything overheard is printable? I'm used to the classic Hollywood treatment--All the President's Men, etc.--where the question of "Is this on the record?" was a given. Maybe that's a quaint notion that no longer applies. I will say, if the Braves know who leaked the Arcia comment, that reporter may have won the battle and lost the war. Good luck getting anybody to open up to you in the future.

I think Arcia has a legitimate complaint.

clemenza, Thursday, 12 October 2023 21:13 (six months ago) link

I will say, if the Braves know who leaked the Arcia comment, that reporter may have won the battle and lost the war. Good luck getting anybody to open up to you in the future.


The person who reported the comment is almost certainly going to be a national and not a beat reporter who isn’t usually there and who doesn’t have the same relationship with the team. Beat reporters usually protect their sources unless they have very good reason not to because clubhouses will exclude a guy perceived to have stepped out of line. Baggarly discussed this too when he reported on Melky Cabrera failing a drug test before it was confirmed publicly.

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Thursday, 12 October 2023 21:17 (six months ago) link

That sounds like an important distinction I didn't acknowledge.

clemenza, Thursday, 12 October 2023 21:24 (six months ago) link

Alex Cora was asked about this

Alex Cora was on Baseball Tonight with @Buster_ESPN and while he didn’t touch on too much with the Red Sox, he did talk about giving teams bulletin board material.

He alluded to the whole Eduardo Rodriguez situation in 2021, but the best part was his story from 2007.

After Ryan… pic.twitter.com/GVskWI32nq

— Tyler Milliken ⚾️ (@tylermilliken_) October 12, 2023

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Thursday, 12 October 2023 22:01 (six months ago) link

This continues to roll on. The reporter was named as Cespedes BBQ’s Jake Mintz. First this happened:

"And then some jackoff comes in at the end of the season that gets a credential, God only knows why. And the clubhouse is a sacred space." Alanna Rizzo went off on Jake Mintz's clubhouse reporting on MLBN's "High Heat" Thursday. pic.twitter.com/6dooqeLPnh

— Awful Announcing (@awfulannouncing) October 12, 2023



Chelsea Janes, national baseball correspondent for the Washington Post, weighed in

1) He yelled the phrase when cameras and recorders were rolling. I have audio. Had he done it at a slightly different moment, a camera sending an interview live to the truck might have caught it. Would you be eviscerating that network? Or would you say,

— Chelsea Janes (@chelsea_janes) October 12, 2023



&

Shouldn’t say that with cameras around?

2) Suggesting you shouldn’t report something said in the presence of MORE THAN A DOZEN reporters because it “wasn’t meant to get out?” is suggesting reporters should be protecting players from themselves. That’s not our job. It’s theirs.

— Chelsea Janes (@chelsea_janes) October 12, 2023



And finally, the BBWAA:

Statement from the BBWAA pic.twitter.com/X6ThJPk6CK

— BBWAA (@officialBBWAA) October 13, 2023

I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Friday, 13 October 2023 14:48 (six months ago) link

In that post above, I still never really explain why I give a pass to Bouton but not to the reporter. I realize that it comes down to personal bias, that--fairly or unfairly--I value what Bouton does (writing a book) more than what the reporter does (writing an article, game report, whatever). Ball Four changed sports books, and I think it was extremely important in the evolution of how we view athletes; quoting Arcia in the clubhouse led to a memorable postseason moment (not the HR itself but the staredown) but has no intrinsic value otherwise. So it's basically a biased value judgement in the end.

I was also thinking that Ball Four is so great, it divides people in unexpected ways. In one respect, Bouton and Bill James were trying to do exactly the same thing: demystify a lot of silly things people believed about baseball and baseball players. Yet the most memorable comment I've ever encountered from James on Ball Four is "Jim Bouton is a loudmouth." I'm surprised he either can't see or won't acknowledge his affinities with Bouton.

I've never seen the TV series, but I'm guessing that it's something close to what the book would have been if Bouton had held back and not crossed that line of privacy: Wacky Expansion Team. Still entertaining, but changing nothing. Similar to how I avoided The Bad News Bears for 20 years because I assumed it would amount to Wacky Little League Team and little more. Instead, it's a surprisingly harrowing argument that adults should never be allowed to coach kids baseball.

clemenza, Friday, 13 October 2023 17:22 (six months ago) link

Posnanski is 1000% on the reporter's side.

https://open.substack.com/pub/joeposnanski/p/friday-rewind-the-hunger-games?r=1jtu0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

clemenza, Friday, 13 October 2023 17:27 (six months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Spent the morning in the library basement helping move boxes for the upcoming town book sale. The guy who organizes the moving always lets me take a few baseball books. Found a hardcover of Bouton's I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally--library stamp but in excellent shape, what I assume is a first edition. Also Harold Rosenthal's The 10 Best Years of Baseball: An Informal History of the Fifties. He's got the wrong decade, but looks interesting.

clemenza, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 16:07 (five months ago) link

Unlikely I'll ever read it, but found a copy of this at the town book sale (hard to find a good image online):

https://i.postimg.cc/VkxpDQVN/leflore.jpg

Published in '78, right after his .325/212-hit season with the Tigers. He followed that with two more good ones, then stole 97 bases for the Expos in 1980--three more and he would have been only the third guy to steal 100 after 1900. (Henderson stole 100 the same year, Vince Coleman a few years later.) LeFlore was out of the game after the '82 season; his Wikipedia entry says it was soon revealed that he was five years older than he claimed. Received MVP votes in four of his nine seasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_LeFlore

clemenza, Sunday, 12 November 2023 15:44 (five months ago) link

I would love to read a book about the most successful ex-con in baseball history! I didn't know that they made a movie based on his life too.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 12 November 2023 17:12 (five months ago) link

He's still alive. Not being too far from Detroit, I thought to check today to see if it was autographed. No luck. (He and Fidrych both played in the '76 All-Star Game.)

clemenza, Sunday, 12 November 2023 18:07 (five months ago) link

Read Bouton's I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally for the first time in years. Very worthy follow-up. Still a few things that are dated, of course--two songs they sing on the bus, in particular--but a great chronicle of all the fallout from Ball Four and the end of Bouton's career (and beginning of his TV career). One chapter is letters received about Ball Four, including one from Ruth Ryan: "...both Nolan and I enjoyed it very much." Another chapter, "Sanctity of the Clubhouse," addresses issue raised above. There's a part involving Doug Radar that I want to quote but can't find at the moment.

clemenza, Thursday, 23 November 2023 17:18 (four months ago) link

Bouton's working for ABC at this point:

I had a great time with the Astros. They made me feel most welcome, and there was a marvelously nutty interview with Doug Rader, the third baseman, who suggested Little Leaguers should actually live one a diet of bases, pitchers mounds and bubble-gm cards.

Bubble-gum cards?

"Oh, yes. They have lots of information on them about hitting and pitching."

clemenza, Thursday, 23 November 2023 18:05 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Anybody read Evan Drellich's Winning Changes Everything? A friend writes that it's

_a look at the Luhnow-era Astros that offers: a) a case-study reckoning with two decades of league-wide Moneyball cloning; and b) a sobering portrait of Alex Cora in his Houston days (a drunkard and a lout, according to Drellich)._


I’m reading this right now! Pretty good read so far.

Pitcher usage was a common fight between them in 2012, Luhnow’s first season of play with the team. Late in games, managers have to deploy their relievers in a way that positions the team to win while also protecting those pitchers’ health. Sometimes relievers throw on multiple days in a row, increasing fatigue and the chance of injury. Even if a reliever does not enter a game, just warming up in the bullpen can be taxing. Luhnow wanted Mills to use his better relievers more frequently.

“What if his arm isn’t feeling well?” Mills said. “We can’t do that, because we’re going to kill this guy.” “What do you mean we’re going to kill this guy?” Luhnow said. “He can’t throw four or five days in a row,” Mills said. “Well, he can, if he only throws an inning here, two-thirds of an inning here, or whatever,” Luhnow said. “No, he can’t. Because he has to warm up,” Mills shot back. “We just can’t walk up there and get this guy to come in the game. He has to warm up; his arm has to get hot.”


💀

mojo dojo casas house (gyac), Sunday, 17 December 2023 12:33 (four months ago) link

never heard of this!

The Celebrant, by Eric Rolfe Greenberg

I have two copies of Thomas Klise’s wild and wildly out-of-print 1974 novel, The Last Western, and my friend Maria gave me both of them. It’s a strange, shaggy, ambitious book—one of those classic Catholic Social Apocalypse/Baseball novels, whose protagonist both pitches in the Major Leagues and becomes the pope, among other things; we talked about it at The Awl back in 2012. As it is not the social baseball novel that I’m writing about here, I will move on from it beyond encouraging you to seek it out. The reason I bring it up has more to do with Maria’s practice of buying a copy of the book whenever and wherever she finds it, and then giving that to someone she thinks would get something out of it. This seemed strange to me at the time, and I told her as much, but it makes more sense to me now. If you are going to love a book that’s hard to find, and want other people to love it, too, that is what you will have to do. And so, at least until Defector Classic Editions comes into existence and publishes a deluxe new edition of the book, I am committing to doing it when and wherever I find a copy of Eric Rolfe Greenberg’s 1983 novel The Celebrant, the book I most enjoyed in 2023.

The Celebrant is easier to find than The Last Western, if nothing else; first editions are expensive and seem decently rare, but you can get copies of the most-recent printing, from 1993, from the University of Nebraska press and on Amazon. And I imagine it would still work if you got it that way, but there was something about how I found it that felt auspicious. Some friends had recommended it years earlier, and critics had praised the book widely when it came out decades before that, but the fact that it had fallen so far out of the conversation—it’s the only book that Greenberg ever published; he doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page—made it seem all the more significant when it finally turned up on a shelf at The Strand. If you can get a Lost Classic on Amazon, it feels less lost, somehow, and maybe even like less of a classic for being on there alongside all the self-published anti-vaccine claptrap and knockoff HDMI cables. The thrill of discovering it, right in its place and where it had never been in any of my previous visits, felt more like what I’d imagined.

However lost it was, The Celebrant is indeed a damn classic. The Last Western concerns the end of everything—a whole world collapsing under the weight of human cynicism, malaise, jealousy, greed, unbelief, and all the other 1970s American Classics. The Celebrant, which is set around the turn of the 20th century and tells the story of a Jewish immigrant family and their complicated personal and professional relationships with baseball in general, the New York Giants more specifically, and the iconic Giants ace Christy Mathewson in particular, is more a novel of beginnings than endings. It is a story about how baseball has made people into Americans, which it always has, and how fraught and complicated and implicating a thing that is. There is a lot of baseball in it, and Greenberg writes it elegantly and expertly; the turn-of-the-century details are carefully wrought; there’s nothing showy about the language, but the steakhouses and train carriages and ballparks are described in evocative and graceful ways. It feels real enough—crowded and smoky and half-drunk, or starched and fancified and lonely—that Greenberg’s detours into more debauched and dreamlike corners are made all the more disorienting.

It is a commanding performance, all told, and Greenberg’s stuff is all the more effective for how well he controls it, and how meticulous he is about setting up what needs to be set up, and how comfortably he changes speeds. As good as the baseball writing is, and as colorful as the color is, what has stayed with me about The Celebrant is how deftly Greenberg navigates the concentric and contradictory layers of reverence and awe and unreality and devotion that make fandom so simultaneously deranging and enriching a lived experience. The Kapinski family comes closer to these icons—to Mathewson, especially, and to the Giants’ irascible manager John McGraw—than they are strictly comfortable with, and ultimately perhaps closer than they can strictly handle. You’re not supposed to do business with your gods.

If what follows is tragic, it is mostly so in the same accumulative way that stories told over sufficiently long periods of time tend to be. Everyone is pushed and pulled by the forces that always push and pull people, and also by the abiding and All-American subsuming of the small by the large, and the past by the future. It’s a smaller book than The Last Western in a bunch of ways, if just as worthy of rediscovery. Both have to do with belief, but if The Last Western is about the crisis of a world without it, The Celebrant is about the strange and shifting shapes that belief can take, and the lonesome places our devotions can take us. - David Roth

mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 December 2023 20:27 (three months ago) link

four weeks pass...

Posnanski's Why We Love Baseball has won the 2023 Casey Award for best baseball book of the year. It's his third Casey. How do I know all this? Joe, the world's greatest self-promoter--i.e., the world's most exhausting self-promoter--has a column about it today.

Winners and nominees (launched in 1983):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Award

clemenza, Thursday, 25 January 2024 14:43 (two months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Bought this at a flea market--$10, still shrink-wrapped; a bit too much in that setting--only because I didn't know it existed until today:

https://i.postimg.cc/fR9xWtBY/kirk.jpg

Came out in '97, two years after Gibson retired and nine years after his famous HR. Oversized hardcover, almost a coffee-table book--surprised he got someone to publish it (he pretty clearly wasn't headed for the HOF). Also surprised the cover photo is him as a Tiger, and not what you'd assume would be on the cover.

clemenza, Sunday, 18 February 2024 23:13 (two months ago) link

Fine player, though--one of three or four Tigers who probably would have been a better pick for MVP than Willie Hernandez.

clemenza, Sunday, 18 February 2024 23:16 (two months ago) link

What's he got to say about his famous homer?

H.P, Monday, 19 February 2024 13:02 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

Big-deal acquisition today: Martin Levin, who used to edit Innings, a short-lived Toronto monthly I wrote for, gave me his copy of the 1977 Baseball Abstract, the first one.

https://sabrweb.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/1977-Bill-James-Abstract.jpg

I don't know how many copies James self-published--my guess is 100. (The '78 edition, also self-published, sold 250 according to Wikipedia.) I've been trying for 20 years to get a copy, and I've never so much as seen one for sale online, whether eBay or Abe or anywhere. So I don't know what it's worth, but I'm guessing quite a bit.

(Martin also told me that he's donated some stuff to Cooperstown, including the half-dozen or so issues of Innings. Somewhere in the deepest catacombs of the library there, yes--I'm in the HOF!)

clemenza, Saturday, 23 March 2024 20:19 (three weeks ago) link

wau

mookieproof, Saturday, 23 March 2024 20:23 (three weeks ago) link

I feel it's like owning a copy of the Magna Carta. I'm somewhat biased.

clemenza, Saturday, 23 March 2024 20:28 (three weeks ago) link

Damn that's incredible clemenza.

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 23 March 2024 21:55 (three weeks ago) link

I missed a line in that Wikipedia entry: the first edition sold 75 copies (one of whom was presumably Martin)...I posted about this in Facebook. Half of me was thinking "You shouldn't be attracting attention with something this rare." The other half was laughing at that half: "Haven't you learned yet--no one cares about this stuff. Criminals are busy stealing cars--they're not combing Facebook looking for Baseball Abstracts."

clemenza, Saturday, 23 March 2024 23:05 (three weeks ago) link

So cool!

brimstead, Sunday, 24 March 2024 15:16 (three weeks ago) link

Amazing clem, congratulations on your acquisition (and your unofficial HOF induction)!

NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 24 March 2024 15:38 (three weeks ago) link

On the induction, thanks. On the other...Jesus, this is embarrassing...it's a reprint. When Martin gave me the book, I took a quick look and put it right in a bag. Looked exactly like the '78/'79/'80 editions I already have: card-stock cover, a little faded, hand-stapled. I was posting yesterday from a coffee shop on my way home; found the image above online.

So how did I figure out that it's a reprint when I got home? It required a lot of detective work:

https://i.postimg.cc/jSN0FyPy/reprint.jpg

(Thought about posting this in the absent-minded thread--yes, I actually managed not to notice that. If I had bought it online, I'd be looking at the expensive-stupidity thread, created by me for me.)

I don't even have the heart to revisit the Facebook post, where I tagged Martin. Still excited to have it, but obviously not quite where I was yesterday.

clemenza, Sunday, 24 March 2024 17:16 (three weeks ago) link

Let me now tell you all about the Picasso I bought on eBay last month.

clemenza, Sunday, 24 March 2024 17:19 (three weeks ago) link

Sorry to go on about this...As I suspected, the reprints are pretty rare in and of themselves:

https://picclick.com/Vintage-Bill-James-Baseball-Abstract-Set-1977-1978-262998858206.html

If that's accurate, this person sold the first five for $2,500, with the '77 and '78 editions reprints; I've got the '77 reprint and originals for '78-'81 (which Mike Saunders--Creem, Angry Samoans--gave to me years ago), so presumably the value would be comparable.

The story of the '77 reprint is pretty interesting according to that link: "reprints are just as rare as they were only produced (allegedly by Bill James' wife) upon written request." I don't know if that's how Martin got his or if he bought it second-hand.

clemenza, Monday, 25 March 2024 13:35 (three weeks ago) link

two weeks pass...

Ordered a copy of this today:

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/andy-mccullough/the-last-of-his-kind/9780306832598/?lens=hachette-books

Honestly, it was mostly to support the one book store in town--I try to order something every month or two. I don't think it's something I would have bought otherwise, although at least it's a biography rather than an autobiography.

clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2024 04:30 (one week ago) link


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