POO: Altman films

Mccabe and mrs. miller lies right underneath.
i need to see 3 women.

No, ok, The Long Goodbye sigh

I just realized that all my favorite Altman films were made within four years of each other.

P.S. I wonder, has anyone seen O.C. and Stiggs (it has the best IMDB review ever)?

who liked gosford park? i did.

i am pretty biased towards the early altman. i haven't seen much of the 80's stuff - is secret honor actually as good as it's supposed to be? cause it sounds really boring from the description - though i love the player.

And I really have to see Quintet, set as it is in some kind of post-apocalyptic Montreal (am I right on this?)

I haven't liked anything since ... dammit, either Pret a Porter or Short Cuts, I forget which is most recent. Pret a Porter, I think. And even that is one that I've only liked as it's grown on me. Of course, I haven't seen his last few, for that reason.

(And why hasn't anyone mentioned Short Cuts? It's the movie that turned me on to Carver.)

I still love it. I don't see the aging effects, but then, I wasn't especially young the first time I saw it.

(nashville can fuck off, it's like some indie guy "sees through" chart music)

At one time I would've picked "Nashville" as the best, and it's genius film, but these days I think I like "The Long Goodbye" best. But it's a small difference between those two. "Thieves Like Us" and "MASH" come in close after those two.

I haven't seen all his films, but I like most of them I have seen. I even liked "Dr. T." There is something very, very stoned and somewhat OFF about Altman even at his best, though--I can't quite put my finger on it. But he respects so many other things that most directors don't even notice/consider, so it evens out.

A lot of people would rank "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" up there--I need to see this one again, it's been a while.

His comeback movies--"Short Cuts" and "The Player" are both fine, I think.

something like that, and I even saw it at the peak of my populist jihad.

But since this is "pick only one," I'll throw my support out for 3 Women, which I've heard is finally coming to video (in the form of a DVD with muthafucking commentary by Altman).

Here's to hoping the disc release isn't held up (he's confirmed that he's actually recorded the commentary so it shouldn't be too much longer).

A Prairie Home Companion is my personal favorite

Would need to concentrate on 3 Women to verify that McCabe is the best that others would acknowledge

dow check out the post directly above yours

i haven't seen it, excited for this reissue

3 Women is the one I keep coming back to over and over.

McCabe massively overrated. 3 Women is fantastic. but Nashville is my pick.

I finally saw Images at the RA retro at MoMA a few years ago ... it's worth seeing but doesn't really work. He did Bergmanism better by doing it less in 3 Women.

Images is a failure -- he nailed this shards-of-glass approach on 3 Women -- but every film from this period is worth watching.

Nashville is more sweeping than the other films of the period, but I don't find it to be better

McCabe for me too.

You are wrong about McCabe, flappy, but it's not uncommon for ppl to not really gel with it on first encounter and fall in love with it later. Was my experience and apparently Tarantino's as well.

Think the story was he bought a print of it for Linklater because it was one of his favorite movies and decided to watch it first himself and ended up keeping it, heh.

Every Altman film from Brewster McCloud through Nashville is worth seeing at least once or twice, and most are stone classics. After that, things get a bit spottier.

And yes, I intentionally excluded M*A*S*H (one of his lesser efforts), so sue me.

There are times when I think Tanner '88 is my favorite of them all, but not a film so...

why would you stop before Buffalo Bill, 3 Women, A Wedding? All better than Brewster.

heads up Oc and Stiggs has aged really well.

No.

3 Women is great, I think I liked Buffalo Bill okay but I frankly don't remember much about it, perhaps need to rewatch to see if his streak does in fact remain unbroken through 3 Women. A Wedding...not that into it. Brewster isn't among his greats but gets definitely points for taking big + weird chances.

If I'm honest, I may find Altman's later films more interesting or at least entertaining than the earlier ones, too few of which I've seen (I'd like to see Buffalo Bill especially). He's never struck me as having anything particularly trenchant to say about any sort of social or historical concern, and seems more interesting as a weaver of tall tales with sometimes-interesting character portraits. He seems most interesting, however, as an at least semifictional observer and to some extent participant in what he really knows - the popular or semi popular performing arts world he inhabits - and therefore I find most compelling his backstage final film among others in what might be deemed its late-period oeuvre, including the similarly quasi-documentarian The Company. I suppose that Nashville among others might be part of the same lineage, but it bites off more than I think he was (ever really) capable of chewing.

Any one of The Long Goodbye, McCabe, and California Split might be my favorite from that era, depending on my mood on a given day.

The Company is hands-down his best latter day film. But he definitely went out on top with his last few.

Thank you, this thread, for reminding me that I still need to watch the lo-res video file of HealtH that I pilfered from god knows where (since it's apparently the only Altman film that's never going to receive an official home video release ever).

I saw California Split for the first time only recently and it's top tier. Would be on my shortlist.

There's an Altman Coffee table book that normally sells for like 40 bucks but is now 9 dollars in a few places. Ordered a copy on Amazon just the other day.

https://www.amazon.com/Altman-Kathryn-Reed/dp/1419707779

It's pretty cool. I've read several Altman biogs so not a lot of new info but definitely a lot of production photos and ephemera I've never seen before.

Looking at my Letterboxd ratings from the MoMA retro, I really don't like the minor ones I caught up with there, all 2.5/5:

Health (liked it more when I was younger)
Images
That Cold Day in the Park
Countdown (the hire job w/ Caan and Duvall playing astronauts)

I preferred Kansas City (3/5)

Oh, I recently recalled in the midst of the post-Weinstein era that the recent-ish Altman oral history ended on a somewhat sad note as everyone talks around the story of Kevin Spacey ruining what turned out to be Altman's last directorial gig at the Old Vic. I knew he was a bad egg.

Oh yes and I've never seen Jazz '34, which I see is available online.

Also on the Kansas City DVD, iirc.

You are wrong about McCabe, flappy, but it's not uncommon for ppl to not really gel with it on first encounter and fall in love with it later. Was my experience and apparently Tarantino's as well.

― circa1916, Wednesday, February 28, 2018 3:02 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I've only seen it once and will definitely revisit soon

Altman's (better) films almost require multiple viewings. There's often so much going on in the frame and on the soundtrack that it's impossible to take it all in on a single viewing. I think I catch new dialogue every time I see the tavern scenes in McCabe.

McCabe demands multiple viewings, yes. My only reaction upon seeing it in high school was "huh?" Now I could be easily convinced that it is his best.

I had a similar reaction to 3 Women at first blush. It grows in my esteem with every rewatch.

I loved 3 Women on my first viewing, but I can probably credit that to my having already seen both Persona and Mulholland Dr.

oooh true

That says a lot for 3 Women, which I saw when it first came out, and remains the clearest and most compelling--scenes still still roll in memory with no known cue, the swimming pool murals appeared as I was waking up a couple mornings ago---- more recently, "Wellll, you two have a lot in common." "Lak whut?" "Oh, I don't know! Aren't you both from Texas or something?" kept coming up while I was trying to wait patiently for the doctor.

(I'd like to see Buffalo Bill especially). He's never struck me as having anything particularly trenchant to say about any sort of social or historical concern, and seems more interesting as a weaver of tall tales with sometimes-interesting character portraits. He seems most interesting, however, as an at least semifictional observer and to some extent participant in what he really knows - the popular or semi popular performing arts world he inhabits -
Which is why you might like Buffalo Bill, on a night when he's ramblin' around, gassin' about previous events and what he made of them, with the travelling Wild West Shows, Indian actors/re-enactors and all---Lester Bangs connected this to Dylan's theatrical self-presentation in his '74 reunion tour with The Band: a battered Americana legend-merchant in "full scraggle" (the raspy rattle of "It's Alright Ma" on that year's live Before The Flood is a good example).

That is, Bangs specifically cited this movie as a thematic link to Dylan's self-presentation, whether D. was thinking of or had seen this movie or not.

Watched OC & Stiggs again this weekend and yah I still think it's aged well and gets a bad rep. It's really fun seeing the Altman-isms translated for an 80s teen comedy. I don't get the hate for this.

FYI..."Images" is free to watch if you have Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07578H9YR/
Susannah York is very good in it, and the score works well (never would have guessed John Williams and avant-garde Japanese percussionist Stomu Yamashta would team up), but its variations on a theme get a little tiresome (ok, she's schizophrenic, this isn't real, I get it). Cathryn Harrison, who was the lead in Malle's "Black Moon," is also in it. Altman fans should check it out, but don't expect a masterpiece.

1. California Split
2. Nashville
3. The Long Goodbye
4. Brewster McCloud
5. 3 Women
6. The Player
7. Short Cuts
8. A Wedding
9. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
10. Secret Honor

not my thing: Thieves Like Us
Dud: Images, Buffalo Bill, MASH

haven't seen the rest
but I have Kansas City and Streamers waiting

McCabe below Short Cuts and A Wedding is completely looney tunes but at least you're in the ballpark. I wouldn't put California Split first but I def rate it higher than most.

Musts to see if you haven't yet: Gosford Park, The Company, Tanner '88 (probably in my top five Altman projects)

Thieves Like Us might be as high as #3 for me

never liked Brewster

Also Vincent & Theo and Prairie Home Companion were quite good iirc but it's been a while since I saw either.

01. Nashville
02. 3 Women
03. Short Cuts
04. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
05. The Company
06. The Long Goodbye

Those six are his undying masterpieces. The rest is a great jumble of movies I like a great deal more than most (Popeye) and a great deal less than most (California Split).

1. The Long Goodbye
2. McCabe and Mrs. Miller
3. Thieves Like Us
4. The Player
5. 3 Women
6. Nashville
7. Vincent and Theo
8. Gosford Park
9. Secret Honor
10. The Company

1. California Split
2. The Long Goodbye
3. McCabe & Mrs Miller
4. Nashville
5. Brewster McCloud
6. Short Cuts
7. The Player
8. Gosford Park

I havent seen 3 Women, Thieves Like Us (well ive seen bits of it), A Wedding, The Company, Tanner '88

Cannot believe the disrespect being shown to O.C. & Stiggs itt rn.

Dr T and The Women much better on the rewatch. I'm not even sure why I thought it was middling back when it came out. That ending is insane!

01. Nashville
02. 3 Women
03. Short Cuts
04. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
05. The Company
06. The Long Goodbye

Those six are his undying masterpieces. The rest is a great jumble of movies I like a great deal more than most (Popeye) and a great deal less than most (California Split).

― zama roma ding dong (Eric H.), Sunday, February 10, 2019 12:48 PM (two years ago)

You know, four slots on the ILX all-time 100 was a lot, but I still can't begrudge him the "honor." When he was on he was kind of the best American filmmaker ever.

Thank you for tooting the Company horn. It'll probably be another couple decades before that film finally gets its proper recognition.

The cutest James Franco ever was, and that's an accomplishment.

That was before he decided he wanted us to all know he wishes he were gay.

OC and Stiggs would make a good double bill with The Beach Bum. Both movies about self-styled rebels who are riding the wave like everyone else