Taking Sides : Trout Mask Replica vs Clear Spot

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His most successful 'weird' album vs his most accomplished 'straight' album?

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 10:45 (twenty years ago) link

indespensible, both. and clear spot is hardly straight as you 'note'

mullygrubber (gaz), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 10:48 (twenty years ago) link

On a different tack, I knew of a particular Beefheart track, which sounded a lot like "Bad to the Bone" and got played on "Cheggers plays pop" back in the day. But never heared it since, and decided it was another of those hallucinations like that pro/am karaoke thing.. (which was true), until yesterday there was a cover version heading up a John Travolta as a lawyer" film : Hard Workin' Man

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 10:51 (twenty years ago) link

accent on 'accomplished'

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 10:52 (twenty years ago) link

is that a john sayles film? music by nietzche?

mullygrubber (gaz), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 10:53 (twenty years ago) link

I believe it was originally from a film. The John Travolta one was on 2 days ago on five (UK).

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:01 (twenty years ago) link

It was recorded for the film "Blue Collar".

There are two versions of the song about - a "dirty" one and a "clean" one which excises that naught F word.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:05 (twenty years ago) link

It is just Don without The Magic Band 'though - the backing music was by Jack Nitsche and IIRC Ry Cooder.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:06 (twenty years ago) link

it was that 'djing djing' bit between the verses.. Is it part of that "Dust blows forward" anthology?

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:12 (twenty years ago) link

Blue Collar is a truly excellent film too, as well as boasting a great theme song. Did the cover from the Travolta film soundtrack actually try to replicate Beefheart's voice?

Oh, and on the TS front, Clear Spot all the way. TMR really gives me a headache, apart from Well.

M Carty (mj_c), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:12 (twenty years ago) link

I just looked it up on IMDB, it is the same version.

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:17 (twenty years ago) link

To answer the original question (in far more detail than anyone actually asked for or wanted):

1. Trout Mask Replica
2. Safe As Milk
3. Shiny Beast
4.= Doc At The Radar Station
4.= Lick My Decals Off Baby
6. Clear Spot
7. Ice Cream For Crow
8. Spotlight Kid
9. Mirror Man
10. Strictly Personal
11. Unconditionally Guaranteed
12. Blue Jeans & Moonbeams

If you want to include the unreleased original Bat Chain Puller it would go between Clear Spot and Ice Cream For Crow and if you want to include The A&M Sessions it would go between Spotlight Kid and Mirror Man.

Not that I've ever given this much thought you understand.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:17 (twenty years ago) link

"Her Eyes Are A Blue Million Miles" appears on the soundtrack of the film The Big Lebowski too.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago) link

my fave and second fave Beefheart albums: Clear Spot slightly ahead of Trout Mask

Paul (scifisoul), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 12:16 (twenty years ago) link

I got the Spotlight Kid / Clear Spot CD, at one point thought "Heck, this suddenly got better..." looked and yes it was the first track of "Clear Spot" onwards..

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

I exactly know what you mean but - particularly having heard The Magic Band tearing through fantastic versions of "I'm Going To Booglarize You Baby", "Click Clack", Alice In Blunderland", "When It Blows It's Stacks" and "Grow Fins" a couple of times recently, I'm starting to suspect that's down to poor mixing (or possibly even poor CD mastering? I haven't heard the vinyl!) of Spotlight Kid; certainly the songs do far more for me live than they ever have on CD!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 12:36 (twenty years ago) link

Is the tragic stuff as bad as all that? I have the single "My o my" and quite liked the b-side... (Magic bee)

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 12:47 (twenty years ago) link

Sorry to be pedantic but "Upon The My Oh My" and "Magic Be" are actually from Unconditionally Guaranteed, which was recorded by The Magic Band before they all deserted and formed Mallard - it was the band that toured to promote that album and which sunsequently recorded the album Bluejeans & Moonbeams which is referred to as The Tragic Band.

This is what I think of the Unconditionally Guaranteed and Bluejeans & Moonbeams

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:03 (twenty years ago) link

Ta.

Over the weekend, a long journey with a compilation tape, and now the kids love "Yellow Brick Road"...

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:08 (twenty years ago) link

Have you tried feeding them Kandy Korn, or maybe an Abba Zabba bar yet?

It's a shame they aren't selling Abba Zabba bars (any more?) in this country - we could have had whole generations of school children growing up singing Beefheart!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:14 (twenty years ago) link

Spotlight Kid sounds a lot better on vinyl.

Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know whether that should make me feel happy (because it means there is a better version of the album available) or sad (because now that I know, I'm going to have to find one and buy it)!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:21 (twenty years ago) link

Well hopefully you can afford it! It's much funkier and I don't know SO ON on vinyl, a lot easier to hear what I guess he was aiming at. I used to dislike it a fair bit on that SK/CS Cd, I love it now.

Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:24 (twenty years ago) link

Thanks Mark, I've just ordered that!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:41 (twenty years ago) link

It's a little cheaper from the Freak Emporium.

I'd take TMR out of the two, I think that when it rocks, it rocks harder.

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

Idea for tribute band: Abba Zabbath. Not sure how that would work quite though...

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

Thanks Nick. I have my doubts either of them will be able to deliver (it's been OOP for several years) but definitely worth trying!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 14:00 (twenty years ago) link

"Clear Spot", "Trout Mask" and "Doc at the Radar Station" are tied for my top spot IMO. Interesting to contrast Trout Mask/ Decals with Clear Spot/ Spotlight Kid - in both cases you have a classic album recorded by a name producer followed by a similar but not quite so good album ruined by Beefheart producing it himself. Not that "Spotlight Kid" is anywhere near as good as "Decals"

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:15 (twenty years ago) link

...actually, now I come to think of it, "Doc at the Radar Station" is followed by "Ice Cream For Crow", which isn't good and has the same annoying muffled production that Beefheart seems to favour when left to his own devices.

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:21 (twenty years ago) link

... that should read "followed by "Ice Cream For Crow", which isn't as good", of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:27 (twenty years ago) link

I'm fairly certain, I'm now older than DVV when he made the video for Ice Cream for Crow...

(I still look younger than he did on Trout Mask, in my opinion)

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:40 (twenty years ago) link

"I'm fairly certain, I'm now older than DVV when he made the video for Ice Cream for Crow..."

He'd have been 41 +/- a year so < eek! > I'm around the same age myself!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 11 March 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago) link

So, we're doing OK...

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 11 March 2004 13:56 (twenty years ago) link

Absolutely right Mark!

Well, apart from the fact that (unless there's something you're not telling me) we haven't actually recorded a dozen-or-so extraordinarily wonderful, innovative and highly respected albums and haven't established our credentials as artists to the extent that we now have highly lucrative careers ahead of us, obviously.

Well, not so far.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 11 March 2004 14:45 (twenty years ago) link

Oh I've recorded loads of wonderful albums. So they only sold a maximum of three copies overall.....

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 11 March 2004 15:10 (twenty years ago) link

(and that was only because one of the band wanted to give a copy to his latest girlfriend...)

(With a newly recorded version of a song with new girlfriend's name in it...)

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 11 March 2004 15:22 (twenty years ago) link

Stewart's ranking of the Beefheart albums is OTM. I agree with him on #1-9 and the rest I haven't heard. It's rare to agree so closely with another fan about an artist's output. Great minds, etc.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago) link

Boring ol' predictible me: TMR is still my favourite; but Clear Spot happens to be my favourite "straight" Beefheart LP. The guitarists still sound like they're playing two different songs at once, but in the same key and with the same tempo. Typically God-like rhythms, with a taste of N'awlins second-line funk and swamprock this time. Occasional horns & female backups are a nice touch (and thankfully, not used on EVERY track.) And "Big-eyed Beans From Venus" (with Zoot Horn Rollo hitting that long, lunar note) would probably top my hypothetical Beefheart POX list. Finally, praise to Ted Templeman & Donn Landee for making Clear Spot the Captain's finest-sounding release ever, with a sonic clarity rivalled only by the original's see-through cover. (Only on the vinyl, regrettably: the CD remaster is a disgrace.)

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:03 (twenty years ago) link

...oh, and aside from the lousy sound, that Spotlight Kid / Clear Spot suffers from ridiculous & inaccurate liner notes, wrongly claiming that CS was the earlier of the two, then illustrating the error by calling SK "a step backwards after the innovations of Clear Spot," or something like that. It shouldn't be too hard to get these things right!

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago) link

To my surprise and delight HMV have just announced that a nice shiny new vinyl copy of Spotlight Kid has been dispatched to me.

Now I'm not sure whether to hope that it is a lot better than the CD ('cos that'll mean I haven't wasted my money) or that it isn't ('cos that'll mean I'm going to have to fork out for Clear Spot on vinyl in case that's better than the CD too).

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 15 March 2004 10:34 (twenty years ago) link

Tough to rank them, as the best Beefheart albums are really close in quality.
I go with
1. Lick My Decals Off, Baby
2. Doc at the Radar Station
3. Clear Spot
4. Safe as Milk
5. Trout Mask Replica
6. Ice Cream for Crow
7. The Spotlight Kid
8. Strictly Personal
9. Mirror Man
10. Bluejeans and Moonbeams
11. Unconditionally

I listen to Clear Spot and Doc more than any of the others. Decals is the best overall but I am not always in the mood for Flash Gordon's Ape. I took the saxes off that one once just for fun, and without them it's quite possibly the single most amazing thing they ever did.

Safe as Milk and Trout Mask kind of stand outside the rest of his work, in my opinion; the former is a great '60s pop album; the latter is, I'm not sure what that is to this day. The best of TMR is so incredible as an example of controlled hysteria that I'm always tempted to put it at the top of my list. Clear Spot is not all that normal; I've always wondered if soul musicians ever listened to it. What would Allen Toussaint think about it? I once put in Clear Spot and Lee Dorsey's Yes We Can in the changer--very similar records actually, altho Lee does sing better. Too bad the Captain couldn't have gotten the Meters after the Magic Band broke up.

And right, the CD mastering on Spotlight/Spot is horrible, and the liner notes, ditto.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:09 (twenty years ago) link

I left off Shiny Beast, which I've never liked all that much apart from Suction Prints and Owed T' Alex. In a typical bit of perversity, Christ-gawd says it's the best, but he wrong.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago) link

d/l and listened to discs 1,3 and 5 of the 'grow fins' boxset. highlights all round but special mention to live versions of 'click clack' and 'big joan sets up' on disc 5 but most of it just fucking FLOORED MEEE!!!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:15 (twenty years ago) link

Hey julio. Would you like a 32MB movie file of Click Clack?

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:23 (twenty years ago) link

I would but I don't have broadband.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:26 (twenty years ago) link

I'm putting it onto some webspace, (or trying to)

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:30 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.ideal-hosting.co.uk/~go-quick/www/CLICK.MOV

I'm over my allowed limit so it's going to be gone fairly soon...

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago) link

ok I'll try and get this tonight.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:40 (twenty years ago) link

Did you get this? (I have to remove it soon..)

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 09:08 (twenty years ago) link

I am not always in the mood for Flash Gordon's Ape. I took the saxes off that one once just for fun, and without them it's quite possibly the single most amazing thing they ever did.

Indeed, it is wonderful

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 09:39 (twenty years ago) link

ok mark I'm gonna try it now.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 09:52 (twenty years ago) link

haha it takes too long on my good for nothing connection grr! maybe one day...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 09:54 (twenty years ago) link

OK, let me know when you can, and I'll reinstate it.

(have to remove by end of today)

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 09:56 (twenty years ago) link


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