Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

I don't like Everton much at all (sorry Mike)but it's a lot like the Arsenal/Spurs thing isn't it? Everton hate Liverpool far more than the other way round, largely I suspect to the aftermath of Heysel and the implications this had on Everton's great side of the late eighties.

ahhh football, I love it so much

Liverpool as team - never that exciting to watch but classic towards the end of last season and for periods in 70s / 80s, though extraordinarily dud for much of 90s. Steve McManaman was and is uber- classic, Robbie Fowler's worldview and attitude as dud as they get.

Everton - "School of Science" mythology dead for years now, can't remember when they last had a good, watchable footballing side. One trophy post-1987 in FA Cup Final against a demoralised Man Utd during the Cantona ban. Says it all, really.

The theme from Z Cars? It's a good tune. The Anfield Rap is a time capsule.

"Austere technicians......". WHAT??

More like a rest home for the perma-crocked (Big Dunc, Gazza), foriegners who shouldn't be in the premiership (Tal, Nyarko, Xavier,Max-Moore), and earnest-but-useless donkeys (Unsworth,S. Watson,Pembridge,Gough).

They'll never win anything with W. Smith at the helm - he's assembled a squad of overpaid underachievers which almost rivals the classic Man City squads of the early 90's (and 2000/2001). Two decent home- grown players in the last 5 years, and one is now gone (Jeffers), the other (Ball) will go by Christmas.

Having said all that I do have a soft spot for Everton, for no good reason that I can bring to mind. A couple of good hairstyles over the years too - John Bailey's uber-scouser permed mullet from the 80's and Alan Whittle's "Einstein" blonde shock from the early 70's.

the top three this year will be

Man United

Liverpool

Leeds or Chelsea

But if Liverpool do win it I will be a very very happy Cabbage

Besides they won against Real Madrid in the '81 final so that makes them one of Satan's clubs (same with that bastard win against AS Roma in '84).

what has to be the best midfield in the world.

I was going to say something knee-jerk about Real Madrid's, but, no, I think cabbage is right. Still, Arsenal is surely still a better team than Chelsea. Lampard and Petit can't make that big a difference, can they?

I know a fair few Blue-hating Reds - in recent years, they seem to have been most frustrated by our irritating inability to finally GO DOWN and be done with it. I suspect (last season apart - which I still feel is some long, awful nightmare from which I will wake to find myself in the Blue Bottle pub in Crystal Palace, with Birmingham City about to convert every one of their penalties) that this has caused them much more grief than LFC's post-Souness dalliance with the top six has upset Evertonians.

In that sense, Liverpool's dominance in the 70s and 80s has let the Blues off the hook; LFC are still expected to win things, EFC merely to avoid the drop.

I'm not remotely optimistic, btw. The Man City comparison is a fair one; our squad is the blackest comedy. I can't even see us emulating the performances of 95-96 (post-Cup victory, Kanchelskis-inspired attacking team, almost qual for UEFA) or the first half of 99-00 (Campbell and Jeffers aflame, goals galore), much less win anything.

I'll be devoting all my armchair energies to roaring LFC on to fourth position - in their Champions League group, natch.

Mike, I know that EFC fans hated Liverpool for years but from a few fans I sense that the bitterest grudge comes from not seeing that great side win the European Cup in 1986 or 1987.

But really what is the bitterest hate between footy fans? Is it Arsenal/Spurs? Rangers/Celtic? Sunderland/Newcastle? Real/Barca?

My vote: Boca Juniors/River Plate in Argentina, they don't fight in car parks, they have drive by shootings for crying out loud!

Mark: the whole 'big club' business. I remember being taunted about that in the early 80s - the difference now, I think, is that (post-Sky/Premiership) the 'bigness' of certain clubs is cemented in place a bit more firmly. The likelihood of EFC performing a relelgation-candidates-with-bulging-transfer-list (under Lee) to European-trophy-winners-full-of-internationals (under Kendall) five-year transformation *now* is minute. We missed the boat in the early 90s and, yes, there's not much difference between us and the Southamptons of this world now.

*Historically*, of course - there's no comparison between EFC and the other 'delusional' clubs you mentioned. 9 times champions, 5 FA Cups, most seasons in top flight, yada yada yada. All a bit meaningless, of course - this slump could easily last as long as the one post-WW2: by the early 50s, Dean, Lawton and Mercer were long-gone and EFC were in the 2nd Div.

I look forward eagerly to Ian Ross *once again* dragging out the 'School of Science' albatross in the Guardian on Mondays over the next few months, for a lame joke and a dig in the ribs of a club already on its knees. I know a Red when I read one.

OK I've seen the red rag and gone full tilt at it. What nonsense! Spurs were the first team to do the double in the 20th Century, the first british team to win a European trophy, only trail in FA cup victories to Man Yoo etc.etc.. I'm sure supporters of the other clubs could trot out similar stats.

Fans will define success in which ever manner best suits their club's historical strengths; Spurs are obviously a great Cup team, who did something in 1961 which had previously been considered 'impossible' in the 'modern' game (unfortunately, the Double became pretty routine in the 90s). Forest fans will wallow in their club's European successes. Wolves fans might have a claim on their side being the best in Europe in the mid-50s (before Euro club competition), but might struggle to claim supremacy in even the West Midlands since. Man City deserve their special status simply for not being Man United.

I figured league titles is as good a measure as any: of the aforementioned clubs, Wolves have 3 titles (all won in the 1950s), City and Spurs two each, Forest one. Everton have nine, which puts us 4th in the all-time list behind Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal.

If those three clubs are the *biggest*, we can argue all day about who leads the chasing pack. There's a strong case for saying Leeds Utd, based on their decade of consistency under Revie. *Maybe* Spurs, with all those FA Cups. But Everton, with 98 seasons out of 102 in the top flight and those nine championships, would (surprise!) be my pick.

Not that we're about to close the gap at all...

Goodison Park was absolutely heaving.... I bought tickets in the main stand with the lads, despite the fact that I was leader of Liverpool City Council at the time.... the noise was just incredible.... [The goal by Trevor Steven] simply captured the brilliance of that team and the glory of watching them. He received the ball on the left and gracefully lobbed the goalkeeper from quite some distance. That moment was better than any amount of sec you can possibly imagine.... Steven's run and lob probably lasted six seconds in total, but it seemed like 10 minutes. It was all about the majestic manner in which he did it and the perfect timing.... Only he had the grace and flow of movement to produce a moment of sheer majesty that could encapsulate the team's brilliance.

Personally I think the goal was better than lots of sec, but beyond that I'm not sure.

In a way yes, although Everton are still a loooooong way of challenging for the league. But they do seem better under Moyes (the only British Premier league manager who has a UEFA coaching license apart from Fergie who used his nefarious powers to make himself get one due to ten years in the job) than they were with Smithy. But results such as the one against Man City trhe other week will always count against them. Inconsistecy, that's the problem.

It's up for grabs now!

Why haven't you been so keen on the greatest football club in the world since May 1989 then?

I predict a run of dispiriting Spurs defeats. Next time Spurs play.

http://img.ly/ioqs

magnificent picture

Yes that is lovely. I can imagine Xabi helming a small fishing vessel around the Bay of Biscay.

http://img.ly/fNa6

:'( at the xabi pic

come back xabi

He seems a great character as well as one of the greatest LFC players of recent years.

http://img.ly/bRGS

http://img.ly/hZod

http://img.ly/ewDs

aka xabi alonso is not a footballer

Lana Del Real.

like it

Gatsby Alonso!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/imgly_production/3763902/large.jpg

he read the great gatsby, and for a decent portion of his time at lfc he could indeed handle it on a wet night at stoke, ignoring his first and penultimate seasons, and any bad results v stoke.

Xabi Alonso ‏@XabiAlonso

Test de Lars Von Trier. Muy diplomatico. http://pic.twitter.com/wqu3qug2

I love the way he takes pictures of newspapers and print publications

in fact his photos remind me of my own

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9107386@N06/4576205714/

never could remember how that worked

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9107386@N06/4576205714/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9107386@N06/4575573345/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9107386@N06/5046536063/in/set-72157624911426689

he used to hold movie nights when at liverpool, i remember reading.

Describes Freamon from The Wire as 'boss'.
https://twitter.com/#!/XabiAlonso/statuses/25920290562

You're boss Xabi lad.

played gaelic football to a high underage level while on school swap cultural programme in meath iirc.

I can imagine Xabi helming a small fishing vessel around the Bay of Biscay.

The accompanying tweet even reads 'With the skipper'. Uncanny.

he was great at shooting from impossibly long range!

xabi has never been, nor would ever set foot, in meath

an adolescent david villa once delighted a pub in cavan with his rendition of 'ra classics

Carlos Puyol won the National Ploughing Championships in 1993

is there something patronizing about celebrating atypical football players like xabi? like to not only refrain from beating up call girls, but to actually read books and drink coffee

hes clearly an intelligent, relatively thoughtful 30 yr old man, it shouldn't be so unexpected

Which footballer was it who attempted to read Ulysses again? Something in my mind is telling me Kevin Kilbane but I'm sure that must be wrong.

Everton FC are going to have a new manager for the first time since before ilx started.

Austere technicians of School of Science.

I think ILX predates David Moyes, it was created in the Walter Smith era.

Liverpool have had five managers in that time. Spurs have had eight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22483636

tony conte clearly angling for the plum goodison role

The Internet's origins are pretty foggy afaict, but Utd are definitely about to get their first new manager since before The Web started.

Not so. Use the search function:

Another shocking display from United tonight - I think Big Ron's days in the job are numbered. And I suspect that one day in the distant future he'll accidentally broadcast some racist abuse.
- Ned Raggett, 4 November 1986 21:42 (26 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's excellent.

I can't believe I was daft enough to say Moyes at EFC predated ilx -- he's been there for 11 years, I forgot that ilx was over 12 years old.

I think Kendall will struggle at Bilbao; Colin Harvey is the tactical brain in that partnership. I have no such fears for EFC - the squad is strong and with the impending addition of Barnes and Beardsley (where else would they go?) I can't really see anyone challenging us for the next few years. I think we may match LFC's 16 titles by the late-'90s!
- Michael Jones, 18 June 1987 17:55 (25 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Everton 2-0 West Ham United

a fine first Toffee goal here: all passed along the ground, 'your Brazilian blend' (John Helm)

Fulham 1-3 Liverpool

Liverpool look increasingly dangerous -- seems they will do better next season.

i am watching the highlights of the liverpool game, they don't look any great shakes in this one. but they have looked better lately (easy to play when their season has been over since whenever, though?)

I revive this thread to mark the high point of Liverpool FC's history since the European Cup victory in 2005.

Happily it is also a high point for Everton FC who I hope will finish in fourth place.

"Merseyside's rocking again" -- Martin Keown, this season

Both sides are better than they've been in recent memory, and it's largely down to Swansea.

http://toffeeweb.com/season/09-10/comment/fan/RedBlueGreenOrange.pdf

on the catholic protestant aspect

Fascinating. From a line of Tory-hating Catholics, I had to be Evertonian, I guess.

Everton broke their club record scoreline in a pre-season friendly yesterday: 0-22 at ATV Irdning of Austria, in new manager Marco Silva's first match.

You can even watch the goals here!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44835279

There's a point around goal 11 where you just see something break inside the goalkeeper and he's only halfway through the ordeal. Goal number 19 is the really insulting one though, the point where he realises he just can't be bothered any more.

Big result for Everton yesterday.

But, miserably, there is no end in sight to the derby drought. 1971-78 was the defining barren spell of my childhood and why Andy King's winner was celebrated so deliriously. This doesn't just surpass that, it's the longest winless run by either team in the history of the fixture. Almost makes one pine for the 1990s.

https://youtu.be/4MJwi0Zwbk4

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/17/carlo-ancelotti-agrees-deal-with-everton-to-take-over-as-manager

I have a curious feeling that this will actually work.

So long Big Dunc

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/17/carlo-ancelotti-agrees-deal-with-everton-to-take-over-as-manager

I have a curious feeling that this will actually work.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, December 17, 2019