Terrorist attacks throughout Europe

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Tom D, I thought your whole recent thing was that ILX mods are terrible because they banned a poster making death threats against a politician?

table, I’m not sure. My comment was that gyac’s partner’s comment on boycotting Eurovision in Tel Aviv showed me what side he is on wrt boycotting Israel. Whether that stance is anti-Semitic, I don’t know.

All cars are bad (Euler), Sunday, 25 October 2020 21:46 (two years ago) link

And table, are you saying you only want to discuss with people who agree with you? Those are generally people I avoid, because I can’t learn as much from them.

All cars are bad (Euler), Sunday, 25 October 2020 21:48 (two years ago) link

I've never celebrated anyone making death threats against politicians, that's not what that was about, but carry on making shit up about other posters and you might have pitchfork and torchlight brigade on your tail next.

Young Boys of Bernie (Tom D.), Sunday, 25 October 2020 21:49 (two years ago) link

xxp

I didn't make any death threat you insufferable prick, you long-winded ingenuous bog standard melt arsewipe. Oh hold I'm thick scum-of-the-earth riff-raff, the pompous bore probably has me killiefied already ... yay!

calzino, Sunday, 25 October 2020 22:00 (two years ago) link

Euler, I'm certainly not saying that I only want to interact with people who agree with me.

But people who believe BDS is anti-Semitic are absolute idiots, afaic.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 25 October 2020 22:09 (two years ago) link

J’appelle au civisme.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 25 October 2020 22:09 (two years ago) link

You'd never believe it from this thread but I think there may be some middle ground to stand on here. I don't necessarily think it's awful that the French ground their state in "republicain" principles of liberty, equality, secularism, universal rights etc., regardless of how these things ultimately get instrumentalised, which they of course do. I mean, it beats fealty to hereditary monarch who is head of a national church.

Zelda Zonk, Sunday, 25 October 2020 22:54 (two years ago) link

that's a bog standard false equivalence argument if I've ever seen one.

calzino, Sunday, 25 October 2020 22:56 (two years ago) link

anyway to hell with with the middle ground, my currency is death threats and actual murder and that is a fucking FACT!

calzino, Sunday, 25 October 2020 23:04 (two years ago) link

How has fealty to a hereditary monarch who is head of a national church affected your life lately? Anyway, if you're from Scotland there is no national church!

Young Boys of Bernie (Tom D.), Sunday, 25 October 2020 23:04 (two years ago) link

It was a bit of a flip comment, but I do think fealty to a hereditary monarch who is head of a national church affects people's lives!

Zelda Zonk, Sunday, 25 October 2020 23:11 (two years ago) link

It's not like the French republican model as implemented is the only option here; and I say that as a Canadian, whose monarch is head of a national church, but it's not *our* national church. Otherwise, it's pretty anodyne to argue that the abstract values of liberty, equality, etc are generally redeemable.

vcrash, Sunday, 25 October 2020 23:17 (two years ago) link

Of course it isn't that these abstract values are irredeemable, but since the US and much of western Europe have been proclaiming those values while actively working toward opposite ends is manifest in everything about the way the world works.

Maybe time to think about how those values are instrumentalized, and how the language of such values is deployed as well. Mbembe writes about this very movingly in the second chapter of Necropolitics

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Monday, 26 October 2020 01:32 (two years ago) link

Tom D and calzino are big fans of Necropolitics amirite? (sorry joeks)

sarahell, Monday, 26 October 2020 17:27 (two years ago) link

He's probably one of the most accessible philosophers writing today, I think everyone should read him.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Monday, 26 October 2020 17:58 (two years ago) link

I've got no idea what you're talking about and I've got no idea why you're linking me with calzino, I've never wished death on anyone on ILX, unlike 99% of American ILXors over the past four years.

Young Boys of Bernie (Tom D.), Monday, 26 October 2020 19:18 (two years ago) link

I don't what to think about Necropolitics until I've read Jimmy Savile's cold-take on it.

calzino, Monday, 26 October 2020 19:50 (two years ago) link

xp - I was making a joke about Euler's post which did so ... sheesh tough crowd

sarahell, Monday, 26 October 2020 19:55 (two years ago) link

I lolled

I’m sorry Tom D, I had thought you were angry about the banning of a poster who’d been making death threats but I don’t even know anymore

All cars are bad (Euler), Monday, 26 October 2020 20:11 (two years ago) link

I don't think this clown actually knows what a death threat is, but he's not the only one tbf!

calzino, Monday, 26 October 2020 20:13 (two years ago) link

(xp) I could explain more but I'd be FPed to death. ILX isn't the place for any kind of dissent anymore so I'm just here for the Singing Drummers threads, getting involved in this thread was a mistake.

Young Boys of Bernie (Tom D.), Monday, 26 October 2020 20:19 (two years ago) link

yeah, again I’m sorry for mischaracterizing you. I thought you were being unusually grumpy on threads since whatever happened and it was bumming me out because I like your posts usually

All cars are bad (Euler), Monday, 26 October 2020 20:24 (two years ago) link

ILX isn't the place for any kind of dissent anymore

I find that posting a dissenting opinion or differing perspective often draws fire on ILX, but about 90% of it consists of the tactic called "label and dismiss". That sucks, but it is so damn common you just have to figure it in as inevitable.

I tend to think that if I convey my thoughts clearly enough that others are likely to understand them, then I have done what I wished to do. Their effect on others is not within my control. When I persist in posting further in response to criticism, it is generally because someone has misconstrued my idea and distorted what I hoped to convey. Then I try to repair the misconstruction and clarify my thought.

If others being critical of the conclusions you've drawn or opinions you express on ILX is something you find unwelcome or unnerving, then I guess it makes sense to stop posting them, because it isn't the job of ILXors to confine themselves validating your opinions. It's only our job to be not assholes about it, and ILX is much better at that than most of the internet.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 26 October 2020 20:42 (two years ago) link

idk

treeship., Monday, 26 October 2020 20:48 (two years ago) link

tell us what you really think, treesh. oh, sorry, you did.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 26 October 2020 21:01 (two years ago) link

ILX is much better at that than most of the internet.

― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, October 26, 2020 4:42 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

absolutely.

Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:00 (two years ago) link

feel like ilx should be a safe space for people to share their fantasies of the death of western civ

Notes on "Scamp" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:06 (two years ago) link

I'm OK with brief generalized effusions of enmity at public figures. when the fantasies get personal, violent, and weirdly specific with ott details I have a sudden desire to not be shared with to that extent.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:11 (two years ago) link

One thing about France is that a lot of french people take it personally when you criticize France, no matter where they are on the political spectrum. It's not a behaviour reserved to the patriotic right like in the US or the UK. And irl (more so than here), I've find it hard to defend my views about systemic racism in France without having to justify either my love of France or something similar.

Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:17 (two years ago) link

It's always good to get the absolute clarity of the verbosely prevaricating (but saying fuck all of substance) Mr Logic take on acceptable ways of wishing death on bad politicians, thanx for that aimless M8!

calzino, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:25 (two years ago) link

(xp) Euler isn't French yet.

Young Boys of Bernie (Tom D.), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:29 (two years ago) link

you're welcome, calz.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 01:11 (two years ago) link

wow who are the 1% american posters haven't wished death on other posters, that's a really interesting statistic.

brimstead, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 01:44 (two years ago) link

I told THE AMAZING RANDY to play in traffic once.

his last words were "HI DE-"

Neanderthal, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 01:45 (two years ago) link

One thing about France is that a lot of french people take it personally when you criticize France, no matter where they are on the political spectrum. It's not a behaviour reserved to the patriotic right like in the US or the UK. And irl (more so than here), I've find it hard to defend my views about systemic racism in France without having to justify either my love of France or something similar.

I don't think this is a peculiarity of France tbh, I've known ppl who are generally quite sound on the problems of their country get wound up when an outsider points them out all over.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 10:12 (two years ago) link

a/k/a FBS, the Fred B Syndrome

Welcome to Nonrock (breastcrawl), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 15:14 (two years ago) link

Three people have been killed in a knife attack in the French city of Nice, police say.

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said there had been a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica".

One elderly victim who had come to pray was "virtually beheaded". The suspect was detained shortly after the attack.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957

A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:30 (two years ago) link

Yeah just saw that, fucking diabolical.

liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:35 (two years ago) link

that's horrific

big man on scampus (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:45 (two years ago) link

A person supposedly carrying a knife in Avignon has been killed by police, an hour after the Nice-attack.

A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:52 (two years ago) link

carrying waving

A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:53 (two years ago) link

One thing about France is that a lot of french people take it personally when you criticize France, no matter where they are on the political spectrum. It's not a behaviour reserved to the patriotic right like in the US or the UK. And irl (more so than here), I've find it hard to defend my views about systemic racism in France without having to justify either my love of France or something similar.

I don't think this is a peculiarity of France tbh, I've known ppl who are generally quite sound on the problems of their country get wound up when an outsider points them out all over.

― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, October 27, 2020 6:12 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Happens to me (an outsider) here in Netherlands all the time.

SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 29 October 2020 12:52 (two years ago) link

I’m glad we’re going into lockdown tomorrow, because attacks like these today are terrifying, as is their intent, and the global boycotts and protests against France are fanning the flame. Lockdown means fewer people out hopefully.

Another person who told his father he was going to “do like in Nice” has just been arrested in Sartrouville. There is no exit from this.

All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, 29 October 2020 14:28 (two years ago) link

Apart from a new political settlement and social compact with religious minorities and immigrants you mean

But that’s not on offer

I reckon FN is inevitable, frankly

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:17 (two years ago) link

Last night the Sénat debated the loi de programmation pluriannuelle de la recherche (LPPR) that has been the target of so much anger against the Macron government by academics. The first six articles were approved, having already been approved by the Assemblée Nationale last month. But the Sénat decided to add to the law that « Les libertés académiques s’exercent dans le respect des valeurs de la République », singling out laïcité as one such value. I do not mean to approve or disapprove of this law here---that is a much broader and at the same time more provincial subject than terrorist attacks in Europe---but simply to note this addition to the law is an astonishing revision of academic freedom in France, and that no changes of the sort you are describing, Tracer Hand, are forthcoming any time soon.

All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:33 (two years ago) link

No one should be killed during prayer. I know it’s obvious, but I’m hurting.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:49 (two years ago) link

Meanwhile, the man who was until February prime minister of Malaysia today promoted genocide against French people, as a response to the colonial crimes of France. "The French in the course of their history has killed millions of people. Many were Muslims. Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past."

All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:55 (two years ago) link

As a general rule, I don't take a beheading as an opportunity to contemplate whether the beheader may have a point about certain things. I used to engage in that exercise, but I don't anymore. I'm not giving the views someone who beheads a woman in church any space in my mind.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:03 (two years ago) link

former PM of malaysia might want to double-check his koran on that one

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:04 (two years ago) link

and the colonial history of Islam.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:38 (two years ago) link


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