American things

the hamburger steak came from hamburg, the sandwich known as the hamburger - especially its iconic form as illustrated by the emoji 🍔 - is completely American in origin

Hadrian, I have no serious beef with you kinda threw down the gauntlet here with

I guess we're just pretending the continents in this hemisphere are not called "America" w/ different modifiers

Which makes me want to ask what continent Guatemala is a part of. Not a trick question. If Canada is included in what we're broadly calling "America," then so is, say, Honduras.

If we're gonna be sticklers in one direction (precolumbian French Canada counts as "America") it is reasonable to ask why, say, Mayan-era Yucatan does not.

a straightforward way to resolve this might be to just back up and say “oh I specifically meant lacrosse scholarships”

In other words

If what you want to say is "lol preppy jock frat bros amirite," just say that

xxp You're right...I wouldn't contend that it doesn't

Except Tombot I didn't meant that.

HVIII - Cool, peace

I've written and deleted a few responses, but really I'm just curious: why does it matter to you, Hadrian and man alive, that lacrosse be considered "American"? It's an important and enduring indigenous tradition—one that crosses the US/Canada border btw, so as bad as the "continental" argument YMP has shredded was, the "we meant the US after all" argument isn't perfect either—that has been lovingly borrowed/ violently appropriated/however you want to phrase it, but why then does America now get to claim ownership of it? I understand that internationally it may be perceived as such, but why let that uninformed perspective be deemed correct? Is tea a "British thing"? I'm sure to lots of people it is, but that doesn't make it true. And it's not like place names and other geographical phenomena are politically neutral or separate from the history of imperialism and colonialism. Ireland is one of the British Isles, can we call all Irish things "British"? I invite you to try that out here on ilxor.com!

Also, I don't know where everyone itt lives, and I honestly don't expect Europeans to know about all this, but imo this isn't a pedantic argument about geography or a check-in on whether or not lacrosse "feels" American. It's about colonization, cultural erasure, and the denial of indigenous sovereignty. Per the latter, the reason this is bothering me is this recent news: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/iroquois-nationals-lacrosse-world-games-1.5717395

the hamburger steak came from hamburg, the sandwich known as the hamburger - especially its iconic form as illustrated by the emoji 🍔 - is completely American in origin

As versions of the meal have been served for over a century, its origin remains ambiguous.[4] The popular book The Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy by Hannah Glasse included a recipe in 1758 as "Hamburgh sausage", which suggested to serve it "roasted with toasted bread under it". A similar snack was also popular in Hamburg by the name "Rundstück warm" ("bread roll warm") in 1869 or earlier,[5] and supposedly eaten by many emigrants on their way to America, but may have contained roasted beefsteak rather than Frikadeller.

(but yeah ofc the miles-wide ceremonial lacrosse played by the Mohawk is probably as far afield from 20th c. lacrosse as these hamburgers are from the emoji)

can we just take it back to fluffernutter and stand your ground?

Rob, it doesn't matter to me that lacrosse is considered American. I just think it's ambiguous and slippery enough that -S's claim can't be wholly dismissed.

I hate lacrosse btw

Not really, I hate a specifically American culture around it

Personally I just content myself with wondering how much better JFK's "I am a Berliner" speech would have been if it had been made in Hamburg

Or Frankfurt

Probably funnier in Frankfurt, imo

Mayor McCheese said it first

I may have been led astray by Eddie Izzard here, but isn't "Berliner" not the German demonym for "people of Berlin" (iirc Izzard says it's a kind of doughnut?)

(I guess I've found my role on this thread)

yes Rob that’s why we laugh about the speech

Rob, normally the urban-legend-level story is that he said "Ich bin ein Berliner" (I am a jelly doughnut) instead of "Ich bin Berliner" (I am from Berlin). It has also been pointed out that everyone would have understood what he meant anyway (there is voluminous stuff on Snopes and Straight Dope on This.)

Anyway

I hate a specifically American culture around it

I pretty much hate all American sports culture - especially youth sports and "collegiate" sports, so you're not alone. Again

If what you want to say is "lol preppy jock frat bros amirite," just say that

But lacrosse is a tricky case, for the reasons Rob has outlined.

yes Rob that’s why we laugh about the speech

― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Thursday, October 29, 2020 12:36 PM (five minutes ago)

ah-ha, yes, this makes much sense now

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jfk-doughnut/

Kennedy’s famous line was penned by someone who was raised within Berlin itself and was an accomplished and highly regarded translator in his own right. In proclaiming “Ich bin ein Berliner,” therefore, JFK was no more referring to himself as a pastry than someone calling himself a “New Yorker” would have been understood by Americans as styling himself to be a magazine or a town car. Just as “I’m American” and “I’m an American” are both correct, so are “Ich bin ein Berliner” and “Ich bin Berliner.” (In fact, some German speakers would regard the former to be the more correct.)

YMP yeah I don't hate big dumb populist sports culture (I even participate in some of it), I just have special disdain for the classist insularity of school lacrosse, it always struck me as the asshole's sport of choice

Ok

Yet more on the more pressing doughnut issue

https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/2

Moreover he did not give his speech on 31 December, the canonical date for consuming Berliner.

v disturbed to learn there's a purge specifically for cannibalism in Germany

Heh. Btw I harp on the Berliner thing not because I care about pastry all that much, but because: like everyone here I hate lots of "American things."

But I get very cross about lazy/stupid/knee-jerk hates that aren't even accurate.

The reason "I am a jelly doughnut" resonates is because people love a good down-punching narrative like "haha Americans r dumb." Because, you see, he said he was a doughnut lol.

When it returns out that he didn't, and that it was written by an actual Berlin-raised German, it was perfectly grammatical, and it was understood in context....

People still want to be like "nah, I prefer the lazy 'Americans r dumb' narrative because it conforms to my preconceptions and supports my preferred interpretation. Please do not attempt to cloud the issue with facts."

That irks me. There are lots of serious things wrong with America (I feel pretty sure am on record about this). Calling ourselves doughnuts is not among them.

And imo, isn't it possible that focusing on "hah we think we're doughnuts" distracts from the real and more serious things?

Off soapbox

because people love a good down-punching narrative like "haha Americans r dumb."

Always thought people were clowning more on JFK, who just happened to be an American.

And yet his speech is widely regarded as being both grammatical and idiomatic (having been written by a native German speaker from Berlin)

And everyone understood him in context (cf. "I am a New Yorker" could be construed as "I am a magazine" but no serious person construes it that way)

And GAH why am I arguing this still

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Always thought people were clowning more on JFK, who just happened to be an American.

This is literally the first time I've ever heard anyone say it was about dumb Americans.

had smores for the first time ever this summer when I went camping

pretty good

I have never thought about this before and I’m not German (although being Dutch I’m quite familiar with the German language, which is quite close to ours, also in this particular case), but my sense is that there is a subtle difference between saying “Ich bin Berliner” and “Ich bin ein Berliner”. “Ich bin Berliner” is more like an exclusionary statement: “I’m a Berlin guy first and foremost, that’s what and who I am, period”, whereas “Ich bin ein Berliner” implicitly leaves room for the fact that the speaker may have other affiliations too. Kennedy could have preceded it with “as well as being an American (as you all know), I’m also a Berliner”. So I think he/his speechwriter made the right choice.

...which is more or less what the Snopes piece says: "Just as “I’m American” and “I’m an American” are both correct, so are “Ich bin ein Berliner” and “Ich bin Berliner.” (In fact, some German speakers would regard the former to be the more correct for someone who was speaking figuratively, as Kennedy was.)"

Thanks, breastcrawl

I've noticed there appear to be two ways of pronouncing 'electoral' in the US depending on whether it's the electoral college that's being discussed. The latter seems to be pronounced the 'British' way: e-LEC-to-ral, but otherwise it seems to be pronounced e-lec-TO-ral?

credenza

possibly also chifferobe, chiffonier, armoire, bureau, tallboy, lowboy. but definitely credenza.

vac-CINE

Do you rhyme it with dachshund?

VAC-cine

I keep hearing the two different pronunciations on the news today.

VAC-cine

I'm begging of you please don't take my man

No, that's vac-CINE surely?

Now I'm getting confused, I need to listen to a British version of "Jolene".

sleeping compartments on semi-trucks (or lorries as I would call them) that look like this https://www.core77.com/posts/59146/What-Do-Luxury-Sleeper-Cabs-for-Long-Haul-Truck-Drivers-Look-Like

sem-eye trucks?

yes, sem-eye truck vs semmy-trailer seems like an American thing?

Stressing the second syllable seems like it could be an American thing - not only in words like 'vaccine' but in names like Bernard and Gerard. It's almost as if there's an attempt to make the words more interesting to say and hear because the British pronunciations of the same words sound so dull and flat, but I suspect it's more about a French influence on or origin of certain words which the British have been careful to expunge but which persists in American pronunciation.

like Bernard and Gerard.

was already thinking "this just sounds French tbh" at this point

I don't know if Americans do generally say Ber-NArd, but it definitely does sound fun when Killer Mike says "Senator Buh-NAHD Sanders"

Double down the bunless chicken burger.
Have seen the image over the last decade or whatever and thought it a sign of American excess.
Never seen it available this side of the Atlantic. So was surprised to see it on the menu in the local KFC recently. Which I don't remember having seen before not that I am in there much.
KFC itself wasn't around in a lot of places here for years. I remember one being in a prominent spot in Dublin when I was first there but disappearing after a couple of years and wondering why a well known brand elsewhere was no longer visibly around.
So now wondering if it was a short term offer and if irish customers aren't as pro cholesterol and type 2 diabetes etc as US ones. Or if it is a thing that has been around since they returned.
I think the one I was in is about the only branch in town and is right on the outskirts.

ga-RARge

Jamie Roberts, better known by his stage name Blawan, is an English DJ and record producer from South Yorkshire.

sampled from the Fugees though

the uk emphasis on the first syllable of words is why they are incapable of producing plausible rap music