how to really train

As of today I know what the blue thing is. $6,000 wtf!

speaking of power meters, has anyone here every trained with one?

no

lol awesome

but the title sounds really, really rong

those rollers are so Flintstones.

I have been shamed by you guys and my girlfriend starting marathon training into thinking about trying to get fit enough to do a sportive this summer and maybe some cross racing in the winter.

Where the hell do I start?

honestly i'm not sure what type of training goes into preparing for a CX season. most racers i know use their road season fitness as an entry to being super competitive at cross.

How do I shot road season fitness?

you'll have to ask one of our resident lawyers about that

i know some ppl that train for cross and it's lots of sprinting both on and off the bike. maybe take a really cold shower fully-dressed before hand

road season fitness means training and racing from november to september. then you get on the CX bike and see what happens.

i would assume if you are only training for cross you would do a lot of high intensity intervals. work on recovery. work on bike handling and cornering skills.

i think i'll race CX next fall

Don't think you'd need big base for jus cx, cld probly rly start your work in june assumin you're not just gettin off the couch.

If road races are tactical exercises that usually focus on the final 15 mins of the race, cx is micro tactical, u just constantly sussin out how to hit hole shot how to take barrier sets when to pass dikwad when pulling rd section is worthwhile- all while ur crosseyed it rly is fun. It rewards pure fitness, but require constant mindfulness

I did weights for the first time since before christmas yesterday, and today my arse is well and truly kicked.

So I'm thinking get a turbo/mag trainer for the coming winter, any thoughts on this?

^^^ditto, i need something for the long darkness

i always say rollers over trainer

Ed, it's THE single most soul-destroyingly tedious thing a man can do. If there's anyway you can ride outside, do so.

Having said that, it does the job. Just don't think you can keep it up for a more than an hour or you will die of sadness.

that's just your opinion, man!

i do 3 hour sessions, easily.

just plop yourself in front of the TV and watch some film(s)

I'm pretty good at this sort of thing if I get the TV on.

Although the idea of rollers seems appealing they also seem to be twice the price of a mag/turbo trainer.

that's just your opinion, man!

Well, yes :)

These seem to be in my price range, will they suck?

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1028745_-1_400037_400006_400134

Is anyone able to suggest any decent offroad but paved places to ride laps in South London?

I've signed up to a few rides rides this summer (including the cycle leg of a relay triathlon) and would quite like to be able to train away from the interruptions of traffic and road rules.

Herne Hill? Think it might be shut over the winter though.

http://www.hernehillvelodrome.com/about

Actually, you might need to have a track bike to ride there.

Oh yeah you do. Damn place is full of rules and regs, probably not what you're looking for.

Not quite, although that'd be really convenient. There's a track around Crystal Palace park but I think but I'm told it's dirt rather than tarmac which isn't any good either.

Battersea park? Just a guess, not sure exactly what it's like to ride in/around.

cutty what is current thinking on gaining strength in gym w/out gaining mass? stuff i've seen is slightly dif from old days, im seeing that light weight high reps is rong. i should be doing low reps, explosive, no max out.

im doing all core, no iso shit except leg curls, but in 4 weeks ive gained 3-4 pounds. shits gotta stop, do i just bail?

i, too, am in "easy" gainer in terms of muscle mass.

from what i know--you still start out your strength training with light weight/high reps (20+-), however you gradually increase the weight over the course until you are totally putting out explosive power for 6-8 reps.

right now i'm at 8 reps, aiming for around 400lbs on the leg press and nearing 200lbs on leg extensions. hamstring curl i'm doing around 150.

everything else is core and upper and lower back. plenty of planks, back extension, lat pull, row pull.

are you going to race this year? just the TT stuff? i wouldn't worry about the added muscle mass.

thx. just tt afaik. ive got no time, no budget.

yeah, im still in my circuit phase at about 20 reps of everything. the lat pulls, rows, deadlift have obv hit the delts lats and traps tho. i dont think im so much an easy gainer as really deconditioned up there.

i know i can tt in the low 170s, its not nearly so important. dont wanna be a clydesdale tho.

i'm really trying to lose weight right now until march. the gym definitely doesn't help, but it will end soon. 153lbs this AM.

if i could actually race at 145lbs i would be unstoppable :/

ha, is your w/kg classified info?

go get 'em cutty!

it's not classified-- but the only relevant w/kg number is what you put out at threshold power. since you hardly work on that zone at this time of year it's probably nothing special. when the intensity and racing starts we shall see.

i will have a lactate threshold test in a couple of weeks and will share the results if anyone is interested.

if i could race at 145, wait, hahahahaha. i probably couldnt walk at 145.

when you consider how much $$$ you pay for weight savings (IN GRAMS) in equipment--losing 8 pounds is really a game changer. especially for me being a climber.

ohhhhhh fuck yeah its massive. thats why i wasted 2 years of racing tryna be skinny when i coulda baggin points in crits

coulda been

ha yeah. so basically I'm more nutrition nazi right now than usual. hopefully no one commits me.

this bagel w/ pb/honey is awez. *runs*

clydesdale

bagels are such a reward during the season

last question (and you may have answered this on rolling nn): do you weigh your food on a gram scale, sir?

i was 145 as a 13y/o in the 9th grade... :-\

[warning: EMO]

I am really, really, really, really out of shape. Very disappointing. Getting "looks", "talkings to", "bailed on"... and it's like 85 miles with 5500 feet of climbing in under 5 hours is pretty groundbreaking for me, but still coming up short.

What sucks:
I bonked on this 5 mile climb today.
2 guys I ride with are in really good shape (one seems to be peaking at the moment, he threw down 400+W for over 10 mins the other night in spin class) and are not shy about showing off their early season fitness.
Kinda had some "neg" feelings today about LL this, which sucks because I'm usually a pretty "posi" dude about training/racing.
Basically need to HTFU and stop being slow and lose more weight.

LL = all

jaxon, maybe pay a visit to 3Db1k3f1t in sausalito, it's the same guy who set you up at BN.

nb&s: if you've ridden through similar pain before, it's worth a shot. otherwise it's probably going to take a doctor visit. :-/

anddddddd i left my phone, credit cards, cash at a shop like 15 miles away. awesome! I really feel like driving across the bridge in traffic to go get it.

leaving your shit behind sucks, but not being a january spinning champion-- i'd not worry about that one iota. when you drop those fools when it counts, you will be happier.

i weighed in at 177 on thursday, thats 6lbs weight gain in 2 months. plenty of it is from lifting, but still, i'd like to be 165 in may.

FAT

MANTIS

thanks man

i'd like to be 165 in may.

also, a goddamn pony if you please.

hey since you may be around gbx, i got to quiz some dude today while skiing about his inbounds-oriented at set up. he had a set of marker barons w/ burly-ish looking scarpas. he said they were heavyish and slow to flip to tour mode, but din 12 and stable. maybe that's what i need? im an old fat guy shepherding kiddos around for the most part, do i really want dynafit? school me.

the dynafit stuff looks so ~fancy~. where fancy is like, awesome. i also really like awesome, but its hard to justify.

if you are an ancient decrepit old man skiing w/children (joeks) then you really don't need barons. they're heavy and unnecessary unless you're hucking big stuff. as someone who will be THIRTY G-D YEARS OLD in two hours and used to be a ~serious bro~ i'm pretty comfortable w/my new setup. ....which i haven't actually ridden yet. that being said: my Onyx bindings (3rd party dynafit) are DIN 12, so i'm not sweating it.

My club is not known for its racing prowess. There is one guy, in his 40s, who's a decent third cat road racer and got a 1st place and 2nd place in road races last season. He's been saying he wants some company as he has no team mates (there were team mates, but they keep getting poached away to racing teams as opposed to traditional clubs). Given the huge constraints on my free-time I've never entered a road race that was actually on the open road, as these events, even at the lowest level, are at least 50 miles long. Except when I'm on holiday I'm lucky if I can find four hours a week for riding (and that includes racing), so I've just focused on events of 25 miles or under. I'm kind of tempted to give it a go this year, but I'm not sure if it's worthwhile: I fear getting destroyed and not finishing.

I can probably manage the pace (not at the moment, because I'm desperately short of miles and still trying to shake off illness), because I managed to race about 26 miles at 24mph (in a bunch) last summer. And I can definitely ride the distance (I did 94 miles at >18mph in 2009, not counting a brief stops). But I have big doubts about whether I could manage the distance AND the pace (i.e. 50-odd miles at maybe 25mph).

Should I just go for it and see what happens?

(This is assuming my entry would even be accepted, which is doubtful given I've accrued zero points on my licence in two years of racing)

I rode 50 miles this morning with the two strongest riders from my club and managed to hack the pace. The road racer says I should be able to manage a 'proper' road race, so I'm going to give it a go.

awesome! When's the first one? Also - with two of you, are you disadvantaged by bigger squads (ie have to look at breakaways to get owt)?

Well, I'm probably going to start racing (doing my usual combination of 10 or 25 mile time trials, and 20-25 mile long 'road' races on closed circuits) in the middle of March and I've seen a couple of proper road races 45-55 miles long that I'll probably try to enter: one at the end of March and one at the start of May.

Yeah, riding without several team mates is a tactical disadvantage in terms of getting in breaks / chasing / possibly leading out sprints, but this isn't a concern for me: I'll just be trying to finish the first few times rather than seriously expecting to get a placing.

Spring is here, meaning double work-outs.

I did am/pm doubles on Mon/Tues... 120 miles total. Had to wake up at 4am Mon and 4:30am Tue to work it all in. Primary efforts included across all 4 workouts: 2x15 minute @ 250W, 3x10minute climbs @ 300W (I'm not a climber so these sucked), 2x15 minute @ race 250W, 1x10minute climb @ 350W, 1x5min @250W ending in sprint for 30 seconds (avg 500W), then 1x30min at race pace (250W) on a circuit with 1 minute @ 500W at the end of every lap. Also bumped up my recovery pace from 15mph to 18mph to really increase the pain.

Had to wake up at 4am Mon

!!!

that's me booked my B&B for next year's etape caledonia

anyone else fancying it...?

I am considering letting you talk me into this..... Nb I have done 0 research on it

only has a tiny wee hill in it

mark C should surely be willing

LOL no

what does it mean exactly to "stay on top of the gear"?

does it mean avoiding shifting to a shorter gear (esp on inclines)?

i've heard it used a few times but never with any explicit definition.

cutty just IM'd:

perhaps to focus on the back stroke portion of the revolution, ie, not mashing.

yeah, turning it over without getting pushed to the back of the saddle, not mashing.

where is cuttye? (miss you man!)

^^cosign this

Where is my sweet prince, CUTTY?

hi! i'm back training my balls off. 3 hour ride before work tomorrow morning, 2x20 tempo.

can't really ILX because i have hardly any downtime at work to parse through this crazy place.

Good to see you again, I'm down 10kg this year. Can't imagine 3 hrs before work, when do you sleep?

all good!

I just joined a gym, quite a big and well-appointed one, and they have four exercise bike which are basically MTB simulators! You watch what's essentially a computer game but instead of using a control pad, you pedal faster/slower, change gear, brake and steer (i.e. lean the bike over) as you go round the MTB course.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/first-look-trixter-xdream-exercise-bike-20073/

I rather enjoyed it tbh - the only less good thing is the problem I have with any racing computer game - lack of feedback makes things like when to brake or change gear less than intuitive. And the gear system is much too vague and unsubtle. But otherwise, it makes 20 minutes on an exercise bike go past much more quickly than normal.

My new training partner is the current Masters state champion in both the road race and the criterium disciplines... Guess what he had in his spare bottle on our training ride last night?

5 pounds of fishing weights.

O how I lol'd.

maybe he wanted an arm workout???

maybe he's a machine that drinks metal?

i'd fill it with quarters. that way, if you ever need to do laundry while riding, you have a bottle full of quarters with you.

or gold, because... gold, y'know?

I put lead in my drinks

I think I am riding with 5 extra pounds of pies since the weather changed.

I had a dream last night that Brian May came to my party riding a bike made of lead, which I then broke with some pliers.

^^^shastanomics ftw

I did the Trainnerroad 8 minute FTP test and scored 308W. (Trainerroad estimates my power about 50W higher than my trainer). Not sure what to do with this info except test again in 6 weeks.

Great number, most accurate in relation to subsequent tests, rather than absolute. Very sensitive to tire pressure and roller tension. If you keep those consistent every ride it should be good.

Tyre pressure was probably low and the wheel circumference was definitely wrong. My W/kg is probably less good.

Anyway, relative is much more useful than absolute. February is about intervals.

the lower the pressure, the greater the resistance, the greater the roller tension, the greater the resistance. if so, i need to put on a tubular at 160psi and like half a turn of roller tension, then i might hit 300.

LOL we are family

how do you like that tacx?

It is pretty nice, very quiet although they seem to have a few quality issues. When I first got it, the fan that cools the heatsink was installed upside down so it would over heat and beep at me. Also the clamp that holds the wheel is a nice design, poorly executed so it jams sometimes and I have to hit it about a bit to loosen it. The wireless is nice although I can't help thinking that given that the brake is generating power it would power the computer as well.

Also, updating the firmware has been a hassle. In all its a more complicated trainer than I need but it was a gift so what the hell. During updating the firmware I tried a demo of the virtual trainer software. It's not very well executed and I'm not really all that interested in competing in 3d VR bike races (also the subscription prices are stupidly high).

I should try some experiments with tyre pressure and roller tension to see if I can get trainerroad to match the trainer more closely. 50W difference seems a lot. I'd be interested to know what firmware trainload based their resistance curve on, it changes with version.

I've been doing these drills where you find a 2km stretch of 2-3% grade, then do repeats in your tallest gear (mine's 120 gear inches), staying seated, relaxed upper body (no rocking), deep breathing, but just grinding this big gear out. It's deceptively difficult because your cardio is never taxed but your legs feel completely wasted by the end.

What does that help with? (I mean, obviously it helps with strength/power, but what is it specifically useful for?)

Muscular strength and pedal stroke efficiency.

Peter

is anyone else aware of the VE method for coastdown testing of real world CdA and Crr? i am, and now im _really_ fucking pathetic. *scouts acceptable hills*

i cant figure out the embed for this, but i think i'm becoming too much like rod (and also, tt people were a fave target of derision for me when i raced bikes).

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/2011/07/tt-rider-rod-and-bikefitter-discuss-the-secret-of-speed/

jfc i'm fat now