Missin U <3 - lamentations for those felled by the SB

When I see posters I like -- Tuomas, for instance, who was banned after defending some Flash Mobbers -- being chastised by the hivemind then crawling back gratefully, it makes me think of films starring Malcolm McDowell in which he's thrashed by the prefects and has to say "thank you", or chemically deviolenced then spoonfed by a minister. I may have been somewhat masochistic to join that BB in the first place (they had, after all, slagged off my appearance in a Cool or Fool feature), but I wasn't masochistic enough to stick around for that sort of treatment.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/ostrich_head_in_ground_full.jpg

wait, let me get this straight, he's bitching about ilx bullying on ... livejournal?

dick opera

you have no idea...

can we ddos his blog now?

It's so sad that he's still lurking here is all I'm going to say about this before I get angry.

Saddened and sickened, still.

Seriously. I'm gutted by Momus' post, I'm beyond language

ILX is a veritable treasure trove of images that I'm sure his followers would love to see...

oh have no illusions, any time anybody looks at any picture of Momus, Momus thinks it's a great day

Ah god, why am I even trying to argue with him? I'm off to bed.

xp J0hn: not pictures of the man, but of other things ... or a recreation of 3/5/09

looks like he's got comment screening turned on. wonder how many "dissenting opinions" he's "silencing" ;)

it hardly seems fair to block vi@gra spammers - i mean, they're just trying to make a living, they're just contributing what they have to society

J0hn OTM re: "but he is consistent about it."

This is going to sound like I'm defending him initially, but read on.

In a way, Momus is like the catholic church vs. birth control and abortion here. If the sacredness of all human life is one of the most important dogmas of your whole organisation, it's very much impossible for you to adapt to today's society and suddenly go "oh, okay, rape victims can get abortions" - and you can't just scrap one of your central tenets either, that would lead to questioning every building block of your church. Unfortunately, it's so important to the church that they react in ways that most of 21st century society finds absurd (excommunicating Brazilian doctors who performed an abortion on a rape victim, for instance), because things get so polarised after a while that birth control and abortion manage to become even more important than they originally were and you can't pull back and go "those abortion clinics we told you were built by Satan himself? Don't burn them down after all, that's wrong. We're still right, but don't do it, ok?" - you HAVE to remain extreme until this black/white situation somehow disappears (something else is going to turn up that's more important, probably).

Likewise: if Momus sees the freedom and absolute right of every individual everywhere to express their opinion and do what they want as a central point of his whole community-view, then he HAS to see SB's and laws and punishments and jails and fines as the most extreme evil there is. Hence the absurdly impersonal and speculative link between B's SB and what he did afterwards. For Momus, it's "SEE? I TOLD YOU SB's were the worst idea ever!" - he's not thinking about feelings or friendships at all here.

Unfortunately, there's a difference too. The catholic church is a 2000-year old organisation that can't just adapt to a changed society without denying their whole foundation, so either society will adapt to them, the church will fade away or morph into other organisations with other, more modern building blocks. One individual, however, is supposed to be reasonable and should - if not have them themselves at least - know what emotions are and also accept that just letting everyone do what the hell they please everywhere may be a fine concept in theory, but he could also, if he accepts the reality that communities and societies just don't work like that, that you do have to have at least some agreements, laws and sanctions if you don't want things to get out of hand. Hence what we have here, the SB. It's not perfect, just like any justice system you can find anywhere on earth, but it's fair, acceptable and if you hate the system, nobody is forcing anyone to be here. (If EVERYONE would leave and blame SB's, ok, then maybe, but other than a couple of philosophical discussions, I think most of ILX agrees that it's an acceptable system)

But he's not open to argument or reason and seems to have no respect for the friendships between people and their emotions, so there's no point in trying to convince him of his error: in his mind, he's right and his conclusion is logical. So this "let's go to his blog and shout at him" may be understandable as well, but you'll probably only be used as examples of how emotions cloud people's vision or something.

I don't know what my point was anymore, but I think it's something like this: logically, he has a point (not one I agree with, but then "everyone should be free to do whatever they want and offend whomever they want if they want to" is not one of my viewpoints), but by crossing the line and dragging a personal, unneccessary and named example into the argument he has only himself to blame that THAT is what people react to, not the "SB is bad" point he was trying to make.

(StanM, stop meandering)

We have some editors here, right? Can anyone turn that into something readable? :-)

momus=pope

Thank you!

im still lolling about the dude who reacted to my comment by pointing out all the long and (presumably) pretentious in his eyes words i used. uh dude u r reading the momusblog this should be pretty much home base for u.

"stop using long fancy words i am here to read about the exoticised fetishism of the asian female and how it doesnt actually subscribe to patriarchal ideals!"

Popus?

xp

StanM, you didn't write some gibberish, it's perfectly clear to me. And true. And I admire how you keep your cool in this, because I'm still gutted over Momus' post. Regarding his 'everyone should be able to say anything anywhere'-stand, he's certainly dogmatic about it like a church organisation. I'd be entirely fine with him attacking the whole SB function, I've got no problem with it whatsoever (although I find it a bit sad to do so when he hasn't been around here for ages).
Like you however, I do not think he's got a point logically, because he starts out with a wrong ~ or at least entirely assumptious, without handing over any evidence ~ "fact", namely that Mark committed suicide *because* of the ban. If there is solid evidence for that I sure as hell missed it. Then there's the *fact* that Mark wasn't SB'd, but banned my a moderater ~ much like the Viagra-men on his own website. But reading along the comments on his blog, he simply refuses to take that for a fact and stubbornly sticks to his side of the story.
Why? With what reason? He could've written that piece perfectly fine without including the tragic event that happened. But he presents it's the direct result of the SB-system, which simply is not true. He should have just left it his SB/Big Brother voting people away argument. But no, he had to drag Mark into this, which is completely over the line and so useless, not even necessary to make the point he wants to make. So why then, Momus? I am at a loss, and still sickened by this. I would have though Momus knows this as well, knows he made a judgement error or simply fucked up. Knowing he'd never admit to that is what makes me so angry. I'm gutted by the way he abuses the memory of Mark to make a point.

(ugh sorry for all the spelling errors)

Sadly, I think the fury I feel towards Momus -- and now one of his imbecilic acolytes on his blog -- suggests it's time I took another of my periodic breaks from ILX.

My parting words, if it means anything to anyone: this is a fine, sometimes wonderful, sometimes truly fucking fantastic community. As has been pointed out repeatedly on Momus's bastard blog and elsewhere: the tragedy of Bimble's suicide can never be reduced to "if only ... then" simplicity, and to attempt to do so is not just pointless but actively counter-productive.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm still in shock about what's happened. While I know that rising to Momus's shitty bait is pointless, if I stay here I'm going to keep on going back and getting stuck in an absurd circular argument -- which is daft, because he's too caught up with his own absurd, dehumanised agenda to listen.

There are many truly awesome people on ILX. Everyone who's missing Bimble is very much in my thoughts. I hope everyone can keep talking about how they feel about what's happened, both on and off the board, and move towards recovering from his death. And I hope that -- unlike me! -- you can all ignore the misguided, pitiful words of an idiot with an agenda.

Be back in a few weeks, I guess.

Aww Grimly... I hear you though, and I'm still so sad about Bimble. Momus's blog is definitely not a place I'll waste my time on anymore. And I can see how you'd want to avoid it all together for a whole.

Thanks for your kind wishes, I wish you nothing but the very same. Take care man.

Don't run away, Grimly, ILX needs ILXors to be ILX. Just don't read this thread and you'll be fine.

don't let the terrorists win grimly

he censors comments on that thread to prevent it turning into "poison", right? Seems to me he's already agreed to have sex for money; all the rest is just haggling.

All the best GF. Take care out there lad!

Momus is like some kind of alien, or curious robot - a detached, emotionless Klaatu trying to save us from ourselves, or something.

I could write a diatribe on his LJ as I have one of my own, but I'm not sure there's much point. He doesn't give a shit. Momus genuinely has no human empathy - he's a detached sounding board, a dirty mirror, no substance of his own and no notion that this shit he pulls out of his arse might actually, gee I dont know, UPSET other people.

If he's lost someone to suicide himself then he should honestly know better, and I wish him ill.

am i the only one who keeps thinking ppl mean the other LJ?

leeeeroy jenkins

and mussels

I've spent this entire weekend barely being able to think of anything else, and I would actively encourage Momus to face up and argue his point within an actual community of hundreds of people that he has accused, without any concession to things like nuance, of directly contributing towards a person's deaath.

I would like to see if Momuz could seriously defend his point of view up against people who were actually close to the person in question. Who he had actually talked to and let know at least a tiny fraction of what was going on his head.

I would like him to at least face up to, and not wave away in the confines of his own self-moderated blog frequented by acolytes, the accusations that his entire argument is at best conjecture based on a handful of carefully-selected message board posts, and at worst an outrigt lie.

I would like him to actually stand up and face what is pretty much the most offensive accusation I have read in eight years of dealing with this particularly offensive internet community.

I would like him to assume something other than the Voice On High tone so beloved of the right wing press in this country that serves to whip up the sort of lynch mob mentality he so decries.

I would like him to post here and show a fucking backbone.

Well said. C'mon Momus old chap, you obviously read this, stop being a gutless poser and come and apologise to people you've hurt.

Matt DC you do realize that you are saying "I would like Momus to come here & re-demonstrate his remarkable & remarkably frustrating aptitude for ignoring reality & his total inability to admit when he's been proven wrong"

Also his inability to have ever figured out who you were when he was arguing with you, which was A++ hilaro.

whoever said momus was real dumb for a smart guy was otm; we don't need him back here.

MattDC I wouldnt sweat it. That LJ post is the biggest load of crap ive read in awhile.

It surely is, but it is monumentally frustrating that we're all being tarred with this brush of uncaringness and being implicated in Mark's passing like some sensationalist "INTERNET KILLS TEENS" Herald Sun headline :(

I think I may have read the wrong thing, you're saying he wrote this all on L0u1s J4gg3r?

http://21.media.tumblr.com/aNI5MLGyb4iaducwLBWVNHLz_500.jpg

I mean, I could have told you when I heard his music that he was a worthless piece of shit, so this is really nothing new for me.

Who would have guessed that the man behind Ocky Milk would be a closet dipshit!?!

Matt DC you do realize that you are saying "I would like Momus to come here & re-demonstrate his remarkable & remarkably frustrating aptitude for ignoring reality & his total inability to admit when he's been proven wrong"

Haha yes I totally get that. It was more that I wanted to rant and I'm sure as hell not going to do that on his own blog. It's roughly the same impulse I get when I read something insane in the Daily Mail and think about the possibility of getting the editor round a table with people who can call him out on his bullshit, except this for better or worse has a chance of actually happening.

I think we should retroactively SB him in an act of solidarity.

It would only take 51 of us!

Pick any shitty momus thread! Press SB! Let's do this within 24 hours!

Here's him being a crybaby that the underpaid staff at an indie rock website wasn't laboriously fact-checking his shitty album:
Pitchfork reviews the new Momus album

Here's a classic worth at least one ol' SB
Have you ever stopped to wonder how the Japanese had sex in the 1960s?

This is simply tl;dr!
Are we living in a monoculture?

SB SB SB!

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/Pages/confirmbanrequest.jsp?action=confirmban&boardid=40&threadid=16574&messageid=1

i love the idea that tuomas was sb'd solely because he defended flash mobbers