Missin U <3 - lamentations for those felled by the SB

I know I'm being way more irritating than anyone on ILX ever btw

As for LJ: given that he's mostly stopped doing the things that got him SBs, and has stopped garnering SBs as a result and still seems to be a happy poster, that reads more like a success story than an argument for "SB MUST GO"

And it's nice to see that you've received zero SBs for it.

x-post.

Not by my (legitimate) reasoning, b/c I haven't SB'd you.

I know I'm being way more irritating than anyone on ILX ever btw

I find it lovable and have given you several lovingly-meant SBs in response

hahaha Keith!

haha thanks keith that's a relief actually

And it might point out that arguing your point doesn't get you SBs. Generally being a dick to other posters does.

anyway I guess I've made my ill-thought-out point about 5000 times on this thread, so I'm out till the next SB thread, catch u later

the point of SBs is to forgo argument about what is 'legitimate' and what isn't. there are no legitimacy standards anyone is beholden to, aside from blatant racism or personal attacks or whatever else the mods feel like enforcing. you can post whatever you want. you can be just as irritating to other people as you feel you should be. you can also move to bounce people for whatever standard of irritation they have met in your eyes. if 51 (fifty-one fucking people! that is a lot of people on a not-big board like this) agree with you, or did, at any time, that's as close to any 'community standard' ilx is likely to have.

xps, stet covered this basically

I think John and Goole are pretty much spot on to where I was at with this thing.

anyway I guess I've made my ill-thought-out point about 5000 times on this thread, so I'm out till the next SB thread, catch u later

You know, you don't have to haul it all back out even on the next SB thread. Much of ILX's present-day clusterfuckery is 100% recycled.

I wasn't serious, my ranting days are over

you can also move to bounce people for whatever standard of irritation they have met in your eyes.

this is a thing i really like about it

btw Crutz I think yr new username is A++ hilarious

I'm actually content with suggest ban as long as it keeps providing 51 jokes

i heard when you're SB'ed you go off to ILX heaven where you hang out with 51 virgins

I heard it was 51 happy robots

Not location specific, No rules: Welcome to ILX heaven ??????

51 lunas

Not sure what point you're making with that link, Crutis...? (Serious question.)

Unless I'm mistaken, he's riffing with Que re: the ILX paradise you go to after you've been suggest-banned.

D'oh! Obliviousness overtook me.

oh hey sorry i dropped out of the discussion for a while, but i was like selling stuff and making money (go economy go!)

just a couple of clarifications:

1 - i actually tempbanned ethan when i saw how fast his SB's were skyrocketing, but the damage was done and he kept getting SB votes from new people that came onto the threads
2 - tuomas accumulated a ton of his SB's for making a "funny" link to st0rmfr0nt, for the people that keep holding him up as an unbannable paragon of good behaviour.
3 - for the 50 bagazillionth time, Dom was banned, not SBed. again, i think this confusion comes from the fact that i mentioned the fact that due to multi-usernames he had also earned a SB after the fact, but he was banned by mod action.
4 - Bimble, on the other hand, was SBed due to someone (Matt DC I think) doing the math and realizing that he had topped the 51 mark. i think in the future this is the policy re:multiusernames if we catch it.

not really trying to make any points here, just committed to making sure that all the information is available to people on all sides of the issue

u know the multi-username thing is doubly complicated -- any number of SB's on one could overlap with those on another. i suppose the mods could cross-ref all the SB-ers names. did you?

yep

oh. well done!

wrt bimble most of them were on the active account in use when the most recent blow up occurred, so it was pretty easy to do

1 - i actually tempbanned ethan when i saw how fast his SB's were skyrocketing, but the damage was done and he kept getting SB votes from new people that came onto the threads

Are you saying you tried to circumvent the SB system by intervening because you thought the result of leaving it to act would be incorrect? (Serious question.)

Did cankles actually get SB-ed? I thought he was temp-banned by a mod.

he was temp banned a couple of diff times iirc, sb'd only once

1. i tried to intervene because i thought ethan was emotionally caught up in the moment (dom banning btw) and as a good mod, i was trying to cut down on the collateral damage. and yeah, mods are still going to be mods - i would temp anybody that was going on an image blitz, or behaving in any sort of way that was (and i know this might sound parental, i dont mean it that way) going to negatively impact themselves or others. we have temp banned plenty of other posters for similar reasons - bimble was temped before hitting the SB point as well. not saying i know more than ethan about the way he chooses to post obv, but it would be pretty shitty of me not to try to stave off a ban if i thought it could be avoided. I think it bears noting that seriously, mods are trying to make shit better on ilx, not worse. i would prefer that nobody got SBed. I'd prefer that everyone could manage to post in a way where nobody would SB them. this doesnt mean that SB isnt helpful or necessary, it means that in a perfect world, people would all find a way to work out their differences or whatever. GOOD LUCK USA! ILX!

2. yeah cankles got sbed.

xpost

going to significantly negatively impact themselves or others.

to clarify above

OK thanks jjjusten. I have absolutely no problem with that kind of modding. I think that's all we need, tbh. To me SB is a feature that aims to solve a problem that was never that serious, with a huge amount of collateral damage.

To clarify that, I have nothing but thanks and respect for the huge amount of time Keith has put into ILX, but SB does not solve the problem it was designed to solve (which I didn't perceive in the first place, fwiw). It has instead made things worse: no less clusterfucky or dramatic, less interesting, and a real cultural change for the worse. The wisdom of crowds is an unnecessary compromise when we already have the resources to maintain and police this site well (which mods did before, afaic). A few smart mods is 10x better.

And for what? I'm not a mod, and they tell us things are better from their p.o.v., but then I see things like jjjusten admitting that he tried to intervene before a SBing and I can't help thinking, shit, things were at least not significantly worse for them before this feature. With the help of threads like these, discussion now has reached the point where they've understandably circled the wagons and there is nothing doing, but c'mon. This sucks. I know Tuomas is a bore, but he's right. Sociopathic behaviour should be policed by mods as before, everyone else should enjoy life's rich tapestry.

(p.s. I think adding an anti-SB button would make things even worse. fishing for good or bad attention is the result, and it leads to the kind of cretinous/banal discussion that you get on digg.)

The SB feature always reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where they all shock each other. The fact that only a handful of posters have gotten SB-ed shows that that worst case scenario isn't happening.

"A few smart mods are 10x better than us retards", I meant.

u ppl u horrible ppl *shakes fist in impotent rage*

I'm not a mod, and they tell us things are better from their p.o.v., but then I see things like jjjusten admitting that he tried to intervene before a SBing and I can't help thinking, shit, things were at least not significantly worse for them before this feature.

That's a bad example to make that assumption off of, considering that the sequence of critical events that happened (Dom getting banned, Ethan going on a rampage, John or another mod temp-banning Ethan) all would have occurred without the suggest-ban feature turned on.

all would have occurred without the suggest-ban feature turned on.

_exactly_. the problem it solves is one we already had licked.

not licking ethan or dom btw

I agree that a "suggest ban" feature is not very useful when a poster is going on a highly-visible rampage across all of the boards that requires immediate moderator attention.

hey HI DERE can u email me my sb total?

(Where it is helpful is that it allows the posting community to define what "acceptable posting" is without the mods. You're clicking on that link presumably because someone has said or done something that makes you wish they weren't posting anymore; that may be as specific as making offensive and/or intensely annoying comments about you or something you find important or as trivial as someone liking a band you hate. From what we've seen, the vast majority people using the system are not doing so frivolously, and the people who have been banned by it were doing things that make it understandable that 51 people would want them to stop.)

_exactly_. the problem it solves is one we already had licked.
banning someone who's on a rampage in the middle of borad drama isn't the problem SB solves. (although that said there have been periods when virtually any ban for any thing would have resulted in a hail of mod-aimed invective, and SB does help with that, even in what you'd think are clear-cut cases like imagebombs). xp

ok, that ethan thing was kind of a red herring and i regret mentioning it since you're focussing on it rather than the rest of my post.

my point was: a few mods did a better job of dealing with the behaviour we don't want, without getting rid of the stuff we do. as people (rightly imo) say, this is not a democracy. the posting community's idea of what is acceptable, at least in the average, is going to lead to an uninteresting site, almost by definition. if you do not already know what your idea of "acceptable behaviour" and you need the help of SB clicks to guide your hand then you should not become a benevolent dictator.

That a few mods were doing a better job sure wasn't the feeling I got from modreq in the pre-SB days. There were always threads like "BAN X", so some people were falling through the cracks unbanned, and there were often complaints about the justifications for banning people who were banned. SB helps with both of those problems.

As for uninteresting: people aren't SBing based on what people *say*, only *how* they say it -- ppl are getting SBd for acting like dicks. If that leads to a site where people don't act like dicks, then I don't have a problem with it. I know some ppl do, and that they want ILX to be almost a grown-up 4chan home for dicks and the thick-skinned only, but nobody who is responsible for this site shares that view, so it's going to be fought against.

but then I see things like jjjusten admitting that he tried to intervene before a SBing and I can't help thinking, shit, things were at least not significantly worse for them before this feature.

kind of bending my words here, im being pretty clear that i did what i would have done with or without SB in place - instead of an SB, we would have had a mod request clusterfuck with people demanding that e get temp-banned or whatever. also, your use of the word "admitting" connotes that i am getting my actions dragged out into the light somehow or fessing up to something, which im not. i just havent bothered to mention the specific related on board before. again, im just making all of the facts available because if people want to talk about this, its helpful if there arent any gray areas that can be misinterpreted.

xposts

As for uninteresting: people aren't SBing based on what people *say*, only *how* they say it

How do you know this?

(And I don't mean interesting in the "may you live in interesting times" sense.)

xp, yeah, sorry, that sentence got editted then pasted back in an old version which made it seem more like i had tricked you into admitting something terribly revealing.

but in that case surely there would not have been a mod request clusterfuck?