It's September 2021. What one player would you trade for Ben Simmons?

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Money aside, what's a reasonable comp for talent? Brandon Ingram seems too high. Malik Beasley seems too low.
Who matches up right now?

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 September 2021 19:17 (eleven months ago) link

domantas sabonis

micah, Thursday, 2 September 2021 20:39 (eleven months ago) link

i would def trade a brandon ingram level player for him if the fit was right, an actual brandon ingram trade fit would not be right tho

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 22:19 (eleven months ago) link

he will prob be traded in a package deal but yeah if you were trading him for a guy a guy who has made an allstar game and is likely to make a couple more seems about right, sabonis ingram lavine types, of course teams tend not to trade allstars for similarly valuable guys, which is why you get the package deals

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 22:26 (eleven months ago) link

mccollum...

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 22:29 (eleven months ago) link

Wiggins :)

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:01 (eleven months ago) link

dubs should def try to get him, maybe in a multi team deal, only thing is he makes no sense with dray

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:04 (eleven months ago) link

best option... trade dray

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:04 (eleven months ago) link

he deserves it tbf, what other player has thrown a finals via kicking a guy in the nuts AND chased an alltime great off his team

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:06 (eleven months ago) link

i bet steph et al would fuss but be secretly relieved

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:07 (eleven months ago) link

I think pulling another D'Angelo Russell scenario where you kick the tires for a few months and then trade him makes a lot of sense.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:07 (eleven months ago) link

dray and wiseman for simmons and maxey (with a third team in the mix cause sixers need different guys)

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:11 (eleven months ago) link

Dray in Philly might be extremely cool

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:12 (eleven months ago) link

yeah i think keep dray but get a perimeter player(s) back instead of wiseman

lag∞n, Thursday, 2 September 2021 23:13 (eleven months ago) link

I would trade Dejounte Murray for Simmons and it might be great for both teams

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 3 September 2021 00:05 (eleven months ago) link

You know who matches up ok on paper is jru but so not gonna happen

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Friday, 3 September 2021 01:47 (eleven months ago) link

if that trade had happened last year, philly fans would have screamed bloody murder but the sixers might have a ring right now!

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Friday, 3 September 2021 01:50 (eleven months ago) link

Feel like there's a nonzero chance that that would've gone over okay in Philly. Jrue's return would've been the symbolic full-circle completion of the process.

swim, Friday, 3 September 2021 02:02 (eleven months ago) link

i would still take a chance on mccollum for simmons, particularly with powell around to take shots, there's point in paying 3 guys a zillion dollars when they all do the same thing and cj would fit so well on philly this should really happen asap

Clay, Friday, 3 September 2021 02:20 (eleven months ago) link

there's *no point...

Clay, Friday, 3 September 2021 02:20 (eleven months ago) link

i wouldn't be angry with simmons on the blazers if dame took him on a vision quest or something

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Friday, 3 September 2021 02:21 (eleven months ago) link

I would trade Dejounte Murray for Simmons and it might be great for both teams

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, September 2, 2021 7:05 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

its actually a rly good idea. dejounte wouldnt give up much in the way of point-of-attack defense, tho obv he cant guard 1-5 like ben. but he has a pretty decent middy and is willing to take the 3 (not well, but he'll at least shoot it).

class project pat (m bison), Friday, 3 September 2021 02:40 (eleven months ago) link

sabonis was my first thought as well

ciderpress, Friday, 3 September 2021 03:47 (eleven months ago) link

in terms of equivalence i mean, no reason for either team to actually do that trade

ciderpress, Friday, 3 September 2021 03:47 (eleven months ago) link

I'd think Dallas would be a good place for Simmons to go, but I don't know that they have the players to make it happen.

earlnash, Friday, 3 September 2021 12:28 (eleven months ago) link

D'Angelo Russell

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 3 September 2021 21:45 (eleven months ago) link

If the wolves hadn’t lost their pick to the warriors I would have suggested Russell and that pick

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 01:31 (eleven months ago) link

murray and sabonis are good ideas although murray isn't a match in terms of like box score productivity. dearon fox is someone i am not super high on who is probably similarly productive.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 01:55 (eleven months ago) link

I think the pacers would really be skeptical of Ben being happy there

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 02:14 (eleven months ago) link

lol Simmons for Zinger lets DO IT

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 02:28 (eleven months ago) link

I think the pacers would really be skeptical of Ben being happy there

― Matt Armstrong, Monday, September 6, 2021 10:14 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

we're already taking money out of it, this is a lot more interesting as an abstract exercise vs worrying about the fact that the pacers aren't one of the three california teams

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 02:33 (eleven months ago) link

Yeah fair enough. I like what the pacers have going without doing anything tho and Sabonis is kind of perfect for what they do.

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 18:39 (eleven months ago) link

“League sources say that Cleveland continues to keep its hat in the ring to try to pry Ben Simmons from the Sixers.”

- @TheSteinLine pic.twitter.com/3IykJypM37

— NBA Central (@TheNBACentral) September 7, 2021

cleveland is the type of team that could put together the typical young players + picks package that all stars usually return except that philly really just needs good players at this point, maybe with a third team involved it could work idk

lag∞n, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 19:05 (eleven months ago) link

how about brogdon maybe

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 19:18 (eleven months ago) link

this seems like its gonna end up being a kings deal

a talented ‘Rebel’ with Balls (Spottie), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 20:54 (eleven months ago) link

Hey Philly, just get it done before training camps open, OK?

it is to laugh, like so, ha! (Aimless), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 20:55 (eleven months ago) link

how about brogdon maybe

― think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu)

i think it was floated but philly would want more

micah, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 23:50 (eleven months ago) link

the galaxy brain move is to trade embiid and fire doc and build around simmons at center with a good coach

micah, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 23:51 (eleven months ago) link

.... I kind of like that.

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 9 September 2021 00:33 (eleven months ago) link

You would have to ban fans for a while tho

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 9 September 2021 00:33 (eleven months ago) link

they would need to... trust the process

micah, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:04 (eleven months ago) link

Embiid does feel like a player where when he starts going downhill, it's going to be pretty severe

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:10 (eleven months ago) link

roy hibbert vibes

class project pat (m bison), Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:15 (eleven months ago) link

yeah the injuries could start to pile up on him any time

lag∞n, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:17 (eleven months ago) link

otoh he's a much, much better player

call all destroyer, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:19 (eleven months ago) link

i think we need to acknowledge that the issues with ben simmons have moved beyond "plays the wrong position" to "literally scared to shoot when it's important"

call all destroyer, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:20 (eleven months ago) link

embiid and simmons are both extremely flawed dudes to be the main dude of a team imo

Clay, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:46 (eleven months ago) link

with joel it's kind of worked for a little while but, like, he gives off the most "any day now...." vibes of any player i can remember

Clay, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:47 (eleven months ago) link

also he just falls down so much

Clay, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:47 (eleven months ago) link

oh for sure. and i'm skeptical of embiid at the highest levels even if he's healthy. but at least his production suggests that it could happen with the right ecosystem and some luck. the team with ben simmons as its best player is like a 38-win team.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:49 (eleven months ago) link

yeah embiid is a legit dominant player, simmons could be really good in the right situation

lag∞n, Thursday, 9 September 2021 02:16 (eleven months ago) link

simmons fits easily with pretty mich any other star player so long as theu can shoot. embiid locks you into playing big and he is going to insist on getting his shots the way he wants them

micah, Thursday, 9 September 2021 02:18 (eleven months ago) link

biggest problem with embiid is he doesnt have the stamina to play his best game for four quarters, and his not best game isnt really that good, hes really only great when hes playing super physical

lag∞n, Thursday, 9 September 2021 02:19 (eleven months ago) link

he needs to not play more than like 34 minutes per game

a talented ‘Rebel’ with Balls (Spottie), Thursday, 9 September 2021 02:48 (eleven months ago) link

Simmons would blend well with KAT

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 September 2021 02:55 (eleven months ago) link

yeah he would

a talented ‘Rebel’ with Balls (Spottie), Thursday, 9 September 2021 02:57 (eleven months ago) link

lots of potential recovery vibes, simmons could be around someone who had an infinitely worse year than he had and is still plugging hard

think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 9 September 2021 15:03 (eleven months ago) link

two weeks pass...

The Athletic weighs John Wall and finds the trade-offs wanting.

You’ll hear some people say that Wall is a more willing outside shooter than Simmons as a way to justify the trade, but he’s nowhere near being a competent shooter from deep, having shot just 32.3 percent from 3-point range for his career and just 34.4 percent on jumpers off the catch last season, a key skill set when projecting a fit alongside the post-heavy Embiid. Wall might take more of those shots than Simmons does, but nobody’s actually defending him out there. The same spacing problems would persist, just in a much older, more expensive and more injury-prone package, and without Simmons’ world-class defense.

At his peak, Wall was a respectable midrange shooter, shooting 36.9 percent on jumpers between 16 feet and the 3-point line from 2012-13 through 2018-19, with a couple of seasons pushing the 40 percent mark. Wall struggled last year in that regard, making just 31.5 percent of his 2-point jumpers beyond 16 feet and just 30.6 percent on jump shots off the dribble.

There’s some reason to believe those atrocious midrange shooting percentages will bounce back, and the midrange jumper is a solid skill set for a high-usage point guard to have. But it needs to be used as a counter to a defense selling out to take away a more efficient bedrock skill. An occasional midrange jumper makes sense if the defense is doing all it can to run a guard off the 3-point line or is deathly terrified of his ability to get to the rim. Obviously, Wall was never Steph Curry on the perimeter, so it was the latter that defenses were worried about when they decided to concede the midrange jumper to Wall in his prime.

But what would happen when Wall could no longer get to the rim at will, or if he started to struggle to draw contact and finish efficiently inside? That concern was always there as Wall aged. It’s even greater now that he’s 31 *and* has a history of lower-body injuries that includes significant injuries to his knees, heel and Achilles.

Wall shot just 56.8 percent on shots inside of 3 last year, according to Basketball-Reference, the lowest of his career. Those shots accounted for just 29.3 percent of his field-goal attempts, which is below his career average as well. If Wall were 26, it might be easier to be optimistic that, now in his second year back from injury, he’d bounce back to his career norms, but it’s far from a guarantee given his injury history and age, and without that ability to put pressure on the rim, even a return to form as a midrange jump shooter isn’t enough for Wall to become an impact player once again.

In addition, the Sixers could only take back around $39.5 million in 2021-22 salary by trading just Simmons, well below the $44.3 million Wall is owed for this year. There are some creative ways the Sixers can add more salary and get around that, but having so much money tied to two players (Wall and Tobias Harris) who have negative trade value would be very limiting for future deals. The financial inflexibility would almost require you to believe that Wall is the missing piece to help Embiid get past the Brooklyn Nets and Milwaukee Bucks, and there isn’t enough data to support Wall at this stage of his career being that kind of player.

All of this makes relying on Wall to be an impact player from here on out a massive risk, and one that doesn’t make sense for the Sixers to take, at least not without very significant draft compensation coming back in return. The Sixers would need draft picks to entice them to take on Wall’s albatross deal, and they’d need further draft picks to entice them to give up their All-Star in Simmons. And even then that may not be enough if the Sixers aren’t willing to gamble on an impact player at the deadline.

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 25 September 2021 14:19 (ten months ago) link

There are a lot of stat nerd types who think Simmons is a top 15 player but I’ve just never gotten it

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 25 September 2021 16:02 (ten months ago) link

Like I’ve never watched him and thought “this is the best defensive player in the NBA” and he’d pretty much have to be to justify the ranking he has from these guys

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 25 September 2021 16:03 (ten months ago) link

he's made back to back all defense first teams... last year he was on 100 out of 100 first place ballots, and the year before he had the second most first team votes after giannis. last year he finished second DPOY voting, the year before he wasn't in the top 3 which doesn't line up w/ the all defense voting but whatever. in any event, lots of ppl even beyond stat nerds overwhelmingly view him as a top 5 defensive player at worst and a top 2 defensive player at best.

i'm not sure i agree w/ that either but it's not really stat nerds voting for those awards. i think for me it mostly comes down to effort. he has the size & athleticism to be that kind of defender... he was giving trae young major issues even just trying to dribble the ball normally in some of those playoff games. he just doesn't seem to have the consistent intensity you would want to see imo to really be a game wrecker the way that draymond or whoever is

J0rdan S., Saturday, 25 September 2021 16:45 (ten months ago) link

btw i heard that last year of simmons 325 made FGs, 315 came from inside the paint. center ass stat if i've ever heard of one

J0rdan S., Saturday, 25 September 2021 16:46 (ten months ago) link

simmons is at least an excellent defender but im not sure if hes more super versatile and very solid or truly dominant, he definitely doesnt seem dominant idk

lag∞n, Saturday, 25 September 2021 17:56 (ten months ago) link

and even the statiest nerd admits that defensive stats arent that good so i wouldnt look to them to delineate this issue

lag∞n, Saturday, 25 September 2021 17:58 (ten months ago) link

he’s great on ball, not much of an off ball team defense guy.

call all destroyer, Saturday, 25 September 2021 18:42 (ten months ago) link

roy hibbert vibes


YES been thinking this for awhile!!

brimstead, Saturday, 25 September 2021 18:59 (ten months ago) link

simmons is at least an excellent defender but im not sure if hes more super versatile and very solid or truly dominant, he definitely doesnt seem dominant idk

This is my view. He’s a v good defender 1 to 5 and a great one when he wants to be but I don’t feel like he locks dudes up as often as I would like given his obvious gifts.

He’s not just a 1v1 defender either. At times Doc would play a zone and Simmons and Thybulle would wreck shit in the passing lanes, but for some reason they didn’t play zone very often. Doc may not like it I guess, but that seemed a good use of those two.

Taliban! (PBKR), Saturday, 25 September 2021 19:07 (ten months ago) link

he was top ten in steals must have some team defense chops, and yeah if he gets in the passing lanes that makes dunks, which is good

lag∞n, Saturday, 25 September 2021 19:12 (ten months ago) link

would be cool to see him on fast swarming defensive team

lag∞n, Saturday, 25 September 2021 19:13 (ten months ago) link

he's made back to back all defense first teams... last year he was on 100 out of 100 first place ballots, and the year before he had the second most first team votes after giannis. last year he finished second DPOY voting, the year before he wasn't in the top 3 which doesn't line up w/ the all defense voting but whatever. in any event, lots of ppl even beyond stat nerds overwhelmingly view him as a top 5 defensive player at worst and a top 2 defensive player at best.

i'm not sure i agree w/ that either but it's not really stat nerds voting for those awards. i think for me it mostly comes down to effort. he has the size & athleticism to be that kind of defender... he was giving trae young major issues even just trying to dribble the ball normally in some of those playoff games. he just doesn't seem to have the consistent intensity you would want to see imo to really be a game wrecker the way that draymond or whoever is


Incredibly long way of agreeing with me, maybe the longest I’ve encountered

Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 26 September 2021 02:43 (ten months ago) link

two weeks pass...

It's October now and this has gotten even stupider. Wise move is likely a series of cash + trade + second/third tier guys between multiple teams but i still find the original question interesting. At this point, who is a guy with rising fair value to get this behind philly and help them heal faster and for the receiving team to get an elite player with a ton of question marks to add to a still stabilizing roster.
Today I'm going Jordan Poole.

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 11 October 2021 18:04 (ten months ago) link

lol morey will die before trading ben simmons for jordan poole, im sure they have much better deals on the table already

lag∞n, Monday, 11 October 2021 18:07 (ten months ago) link

Still think a deal built around Dejounte Murray makes a lot of sense

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 11 October 2021 23:13 (ten months ago) link

i just wonder if they're looking for more shooting

J0rdan S., Monday, 11 October 2021 23:25 (ten months ago) link

then again the intractable issue that i see when it comes to the simmons trade is finding a team that is willing to trade away shooting in exchange for perhaps the single worst shooter in the league. so maybe a player like murray who can't really shoot (from 3) either is an agreeable middle ground

J0rdan S., Monday, 11 October 2021 23:28 (ten months ago) link

yeah, i think thats where this is. the big fish are realistically off the board (dame, beal). still think that brogdon would be perfect for them.

class project pat (m bison), Monday, 11 October 2021 23:40 (ten months ago) link

There's been a ton of posts by flaky Sixers instagram accounts about Brogdon and/or Lavert for Simmons.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Tuesday, 12 October 2021 01:10 (ten months ago) link

the consensus among pacers followers is that these rumours (or leaks) are coming from the sixers fo

micah, Tuesday, 12 October 2021 01:54 (ten months ago) link

It seemed optimistic to me. One might not be enough but two seems too much.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Tuesday, 12 October 2021 02:01 (ten months ago) link

thats how id assess it.

micah, Tuesday, 12 October 2021 02:04 (ten months ago) link

this is going well

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 19 October 2021 19:21 (nine months ago) link

just tuned into 'the game' it looks like the bucks are continuing their strategy of being better than everyone

class project pat (m bison), Wednesday, 20 October 2021 01:02 (nine months ago) link

two weeks pass...

perhaps kyrie and ben could just trade teams once a month for sightseeing purposes

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 8 November 2021 18:50 (nine months ago) link

one month passes...

Get ya Ben Simmons dick head shirts🗣 pic.twitter.com/FFX4OH9fHc

— Tori Lahren (@Tori_Philly4) December 9, 2021

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 December 2021 16:48 (eight months ago) link

oh christ, i just saw who i was retweeting, never mind

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 December 2021 16:48 (eight months ago) link

I don't think there is relation to Tomi?

accordion folder full of Zoobooks (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 13 December 2021 18:42 (eight months ago) link

Vaccination cards needed to see the Sixers or the Flyers play.

Y’all ready to revolt yet orrrrr you think this is normal? pic.twitter.com/P5q3RsggoJ

— Tori Lahren (@Tori_Philly4) December 13, 2021

idk i wouldn't be so sure

J0rdan S., Monday, 13 December 2021 18:55 (eight months ago) link

anyway, ben simmons dickhead shirts

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 December 2021 20:04 (eight months ago) link

I guess the parents would do that huh

accordion folder full of Zoobooks (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 14 December 2021 03:39 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

It's January 2022 and this seems like a reasonable offer to me? It gives the sixers good depth for a legit push to vie for the east and i don't know what else they think they're getting.

https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/nba-rumors-pistons-jerami-grant-package-ben-simmons-sixers

i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 19 January 2022 21:14 (six months ago) link

bw this detroit offer and the potential sacramento deals i dont know why he would wait out an entire season of joel's likely short prime other than him being a stubborn fool

class project pat (m bison), Wednesday, 19 January 2022 22:32 (six months ago) link

I guess I might do that and then when it doesn't work and Embiid is done in 4 years Morey can do Process 2.

removing bookmarks never felt so good (PBKR), Thursday, 20 January 2022 02:26 (six months ago) link

If Process 2 is working 1 day per week on a Ringer podcast

Ssäm Sauce | Martha Stewart (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 20 January 2022 02:30 (six months ago) link

five months pass...

remember when ben simmons had trade value

terence trent d'ilfer (m bison), Sunday, 10 July 2022 16:16 (one month ago) link

truly a cautionary tale about being a huge loser

lag∞n, Sunday, 10 July 2022 17:02 (one month ago) link


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