The Last Dance: In Praise of One Lone Gold Hoop Earring

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not gonna lie, i am going to watch this

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 19 April 2020 21:42 (three months ago) link

they just showed rookie mike in '84 wearing what looked like koss portapros. nice!

call all destroyer, Monday, 20 April 2020 01:39 (three months ago) link

this is really really good

call all destroyer, Monday, 20 April 2020 02:01 (three months ago) link

incredible detail that jordan and danny ainge played golf between games 1 and 2 in the '86 playoffs

call all destroyer, Monday, 20 April 2020 02:50 (three months ago) link

playing 18 holes of golf is so physically strenuous, it's insane that they did that

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 April 2020 03:20 (three months ago) link

tbh found these first two episodes pretty functional but seeing this level of footage is always wonderful. i didn't realize michael's shot vs georgetown was in the superdome

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 April 2020 03:21 (three months ago) link

yeah this was really good

johnny crunch, Monday, 20 April 2020 03:24 (three months ago) link

i agree that it's functional but they have so much good stuff to work with that i have no problem with functional

call all destroyer, Monday, 20 April 2020 04:01 (three months ago) link

I haven’t watched this yet but I don’t really buy this narrative that the bulls would have kept going if it wasn’t for that evil Jerry Krause

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 20 April 2020 13:58 (three months ago) link

it's gonna be colored by mj's perspective, otherwise he never would've agreed to this thing. but yeah, the krause stuff has always struck me as a bit mean-spirited, and now he can't defend himself.

edgard varese-type beat (voodoo chili), Monday, 20 April 2020 14:27 (three months ago) link

For one thing, everyone knew a lockout was coming

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 20 April 2020 15:23 (three months ago) link

Pippen reaming Krause out on the bus was very uhhhhh
Bill Wennington is a viking.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 20 April 2020 15:29 (three months ago) link

Didn’t know about Pip’s considerable family obligations, that explains a lot about him grabbing the first major payday offered.
There is no fucking way Reinsdorf told him he should take a shorter contract.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 20 April 2020 15:32 (three months ago) link

Krause seemed like a real shithead but Jordan antagonized him in ways that were really counterproductive. Picking Kukoc was maybe the best thing Krause did but because Jerry did it Jordan and Pippen resolved to treat him like shit.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 20 April 2020 15:51 (three months ago) link

yeah, i am very much looking forward to seeing what the Kukoc episode looks like

Other highlights: Jordan being an absolute dick to Harper, Oak literally slapping Pippen around

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 20 April 2020 17:21 (three months ago) link

Anyways yeah: this is very good and I would've binge watched it all in one sitting if it were available

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 20 April 2020 17:21 (three months ago) link

need to find a way to watch this

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 17:32 (three months ago) link

pretty convenient for Reinsdorf to have Krause--who can no longer defend himself--as a scapegoat for being a stingy shlub of an owner

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 17:35 (three months ago) link

it seems like there is two strains to the krause stuff

-- the personal disdain for him that def seemed OTT and petty, tho scottie is perhaps in a different category
-- krause pushing phil out so he could install tim floyd, which put a hard end on the run. nobody seems to have a different narrative other than that it was krause's initiative, tho maybe krause would be able to defend himself. reinsdorf does manage to elide any questions such as "why did you let this man push phil jackson and michael jordan out?"

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 April 2020 17:42 (three months ago) link

If the 97-98 Bulls were happening today there would be a large segment of NBA Twitter saying Krause was right to want to blow it up and trade Pippen for future assets and let Jordan walk for cap space.

— Sean Highkin (@highkin) April 20, 2020

i do think this is true and i bet there were even ppl at the time defending it on these grounds. it's not wrong to say that if the phil/MJ/pippen core had continued after they beat the jazz the second time they had max... 2 more years? that would have been pushing into beyond unprecedented territory basically. the end was definitely near one way or another and i agree in hindsight it's easy for there to be more uproar when the fatigue has long since dissipated

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 April 2020 17:47 (three months ago) link

I don't know what 1st soured MJ on Krause. Drafting Sellers over some UNC guy he preferred? Anyway, whatever valid beef(s) he did have w Krause was intertwined with idiotic jock vs fat dork bullshit.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 18:28 (three months ago) link

you dont break up a championship team nothin more to say about that

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 18:59 (three months ago) link

like even that drink mavs team that seemed pretty flukey u still dont break it up you play for a second fluke its too hard to climb that mountain again

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:00 (three months ago) link

dirk

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:01 (three months ago) link

even if its def gonna leave u with an over paid old team eventually u still do it for a shot at another ring thats what its all about baby

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:02 (three months ago) link

gotta properly defend the title

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Monday, 20 April 2020 19:02 (three months ago) link

i mean i wldve let jordan do whatever he wanted for as long as he wanted fuck it hes michael jordan he earned it and people are gonna show up to watch him regardless

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:03 (three months ago) link

the kobe effect

Spottie, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:04 (three months ago) link

iirc at the time the headline was just "jordan retiring" like the behind the scenes stuff wasnt widely known

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:05 (three months ago) link

even if its def gonna leave u with an over paid old team eventually u still do it for a shot at another ring thats what its all about baby

otm. It's like ppl have placed more value on "building a championship team" than like actually having a championship team and maintaining it.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 19:18 (three months ago) link

hey everyone checkout my new Ferrari isn't it great.
"eh it's gonna break down in a couple years"
hey everyone I've chopped up my Ferrari and sold it for parts so I can hopefully have a chance to put together a brand new Ferrari in a couple years when that old Ferrari would've broken down

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 19:20 (three months ago) link

cut to 25 years later...

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:21 (three months ago) link

this was great to watch but im so sick of mike vs lebron debates and this has basically made the internet and sports talk more insufferable than normal.

Spottie, Monday, 20 April 2020 19:25 (three months ago) link

Got to the point where my stance was MJ is my guy but LeBron is undeniably great and I'm not going to say it's wrong to argue he's as good as MJ if not better. But then heard LeBron himself thinks he's now surpassed MJ's legacy and so I'm back to "fuck that dude, MJ wouldn't have lost to Dirk fucking Nowitzki with Wade & Bosh or quit on his team mid-game in a conf finals".

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 19:40 (three months ago) link

His relationship with general manager Jerry Krause soured because Krause and Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf limited his playing time to seven minutes per half when he finally returned, as not to endanger the franchise’s most valuable asset.

Ok now I remember this always being cited as the start of the MJ/Krause friction. Seems like an odd thing to be THAT upset with someone over. The nerve of this guy, trying to protect the team's superstar and not have him play big minutes in a meaningless season coming back from a major injury! Totally understandable for MJ to then loathe him for eternity amirite.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 20:31 (three months ago) link

My earliest MJ memories are of him coming back and having that minutes restriction and it was SO FRUSTRATING as a lil dude who just wanted to see this spectacular basketball man do stuff.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 20 April 2020 20:32 (three months ago) link

the minutes-restriction thing is another thing that would get totally different coverage these days. imagine explaining "the process" to 22-year-old MJ lol

edgard varese-type beat (voodoo chili), Monday, 20 April 2020 21:25 (three months ago) link

michael jordan became the dominant athlete of all time because his dad made fun of him for not knowing a lot about tools

— john wilmes (@johnwilmeswords) April 20, 2020

lag∞n, Monday, 20 April 2020 22:48 (three months ago) link

granny, they show the specific "7 minute per half" game that got the bulls into the playoffs where jordan gets sat on the last shot and michael is STILL pissed about it

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 20 April 2020 23:01 (three months ago) link

i found that oakley slapping pippen around sequence, trying to imagine reddick trying this shit on zion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNno0nBxMI

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 20 April 2020 23:03 (three months ago) link

rookie or not, no one would have slapped around Wilt

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 20 April 2020 23:06 (three months ago) link

lol there is a slight size difference between jj and zion xp

edgard varese-type beat (voodoo chili), Monday, 20 April 2020 23:59 (three months ago) link

charles oakley would def slap the shit out of zion in the present day if he felt like he needed to

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 April 2020 00:07 (three months ago) link

oak was for real lol

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 April 2020 01:06 (three months ago) link

i can't make out who the color guy is in the clip at the bottom of that article but lol at him claiming oak was going for the ball as he did a full wrestling move on barkley

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 21 April 2020 02:44 (three months ago) link

pals

Must see TV tonight — my friend THE #GOAT!!!! #TheLastDance — 9pm EDT on @espn. #jordan #michaeljordan pic.twitter.com/eat4IUtyi4

— Charles Oakley (@CharlesOakley34) April 20, 2020

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 21 April 2020 02:47 (three months ago) link

They did end the minutes restriction as soon as the playoffs started, which is evidence they cared more about the draft pick than protecting MJ's health.

fatuous salad (symsymsym), Tuesday, 21 April 2020 03:10 (three months ago) link

If the 97-98 Bulls were happening today there would be a large segment of NBA Twitter saying Krause was right to want to blow it up and trade Pippen for future assets and let Jordan walk for cap space.
— Sean Highkin (@highkin) April 20, 2020
i do think this is true and i bet there were even ppl at the time defending it on these grounds. it's not wrong to say that if the phil/MJ/pippen core had continued after they beat the jazz the second time they had max... 2 more years? that would have been pushing into beyond unprecedented territory basically. the end was definitely near one way or another and i agree in hindsight it's easy for there to be more uproar when the fatigue has long since dissipated

― J0rdan S., Monday, April 20, 2020 1:47 PM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you dont break up a championship team nothin more to say about that

― lag∞n, Monday, April 20, 2020 2:59 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah agree with this. there would be some people defending krause (think about that in hindsight...) but I think history teaches us that it's really hard to climb that ladder from contender to champ, and if you're within sniffing distance you push your chips in.

this is really good btw and it's a legitimate crime against humanity that they're making me wait another week to watch 2 more episodes

k3vin k., Tuesday, 21 April 2020 03:27 (three months ago) link

this discussion is reminding me that the cavs wouldnt trade kevin love and the draft pick that became collin sexton for paul george lol

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 April 2020 03:31 (three months ago) link

Tom Brady only played for ~50% of these games he claims to have won fairly

Morton Koopa Jr. Sings Elvis (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 May 2020 14:24 (two months ago) link

If Brady starts playing linebacker as well, shooting some gaps, getting a strip sack then throwing a TD pass, then maybe a documentary

Morton Koopa Jr. Sings Elvis (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 May 2020 14:26 (two months ago) link

that's why hoops are the best. they hype up "Brady vs. Manning!" but the two are never on the field at the same time. ditto for big name pitcher matchups or MVP outfielders on opposite teams

frogbs, Friday, 22 May 2020 15:01 (two months ago) link

Next one should be Gretzky. But they make the doc, film dustin johnson watching it in his home, then release that footage on hulu.

Morton Koopa Jr. Sings Elvis (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 May 2020 15:15 (two months ago) link

Finished the episode where he tears up. "That's how I played. You don't want to play that way? Then don't play that way". Read the emotions there arising as regret over the "price of winning".

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 22 May 2020 15:18 (two months ago) link

would be in favor of the wIlliams sisters, tiger, russell v. wilt, and giving jon bois a bigger budget to do whatever he wants

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 15:21 (two months ago) link

Yes

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 22 May 2020 16:12 (two months ago) link

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/may/21/scottie-pippen-the-last-dance-michael-jordan

This was Jordan's project, right? Seems a little petulant. I only dipped in and out of the story as it was happening, in the 1990s, but I didn't feel the film was unfair to Pippen, or any less fair than you would expect knowing it's Jordan's project. You can adjust as necessary.

clemenza, Friday, 22 May 2020 17:52 (two months ago) link

The Jon Bois Mariners project is definitely the best sports documentary series of Spring 2020

fatuous salad (symsymsym), Friday, 22 May 2020 17:56 (two months ago) link

i really don't understand any objection to pippen's portrayal. everything in there about him has been well-known for years.

call all destroyer, Friday, 22 May 2020 18:14 (two months ago) link

MJ did call Pip selfish. But just for that one decision and it wasn't clear that he still feels that way. I also don't think Pip comes off badly in the doc, and it seems like if anything ILH likes him more after watching TLD.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 22 May 2020 18:15 (two months ago) link

tbf it was literally selfish to delay a surgery so that he would miss half the season. and none of the players really had a problem with it! but yeah, that was selfish.

call all destroyer, Friday, 22 May 2020 18:21 (two months ago) link

The Jon Bois Mariners project is definitely the best sports documentary series of Spring 2020

― fatuous salad (symsymsym), Friday, May 22, 2020 12:56 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it wasnt as captivating to me as the MMA one here did was, but i just appreciate the lane he has created as the premier documentarian of sports existentialism

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 18:25 (two months ago) link

(it was still v v v good tho)

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 18:25 (two months ago) link

I should watch the MMA one, I have zero interest in the sport but if Bois was able to make baseball interesting...

fatuous salad (symsymsym), Friday, 22 May 2020 18:31 (two months ago) link

jon bois stuff leans waaay too heavy on podcast voice —WHAt if I told you... everything you know about the mariners is wrong?— the website about football in the distant future is really cool but also i heard him say suboptimal game design in one of his videos which was pretty rough

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 18:43 (two months ago) link

the mariners are the weirdest franchise in the history of sports here is a picture of a hime run and then we zoom in on it

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 18:44 (two months ago) link

he leans heavy on that shit but i think bc podcast voice works well in the youtube context. the low budge art/visuals is part of his charm, but i think if he had more resources, he could irect some good shit for regular tv.

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 18:47 (two months ago) link

idk making good films is more than just having a budget

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 18:50 (two months ago) link

poscasts youtube videos seem like one of those things where its almost entirely amateurish and not really that good and becomes its own form where its just all compared to itself by its own low standards

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 18:51 (two months ago) link

i think ur being kind of a butthole abt this tbh!!!!

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 18:55 (two months ago) link

lol i thought about his work mb a lil more than i should have just cause i liked the the future football thing so much and watched some of his other of his stuff until it was like this man is really trying to convince me that not that interesting things are very interesting by using a mysterious tone when he asks questions aka pod voice, also some strong prosumer gamer musings im really not comfortable with, i mean its fine dont get me wrong i dont hate it or anything

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 19:02 (two months ago) link

his show "pretty good" has some fun stuff. baron davis hitting the longest shot of all time for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndmBCqds_gc

CW: POD VOICE

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 19:03 (two months ago) link

i did watch that oneit was relevant to my interests......the ceiling was obvs way to low at the gym they went to thoo

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 19:07 (two months ago) link

yeah haha, sometimes they use cockatil napkin math but it helps with telling the story

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 22 May 2020 19:10 (two months ago) link

it was just driving me crazy the way they had to throw the ball cause the ceiling was so low

lag∞n, Friday, 22 May 2020 19:18 (two months ago) link

"A man dropped a deck of cards and the 5 cards visible were in sequential order. What an amazing feat of skill!"

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 22 May 2020 19:43 (two months ago) link

Bill Wennington's basement slot machine

Morton Koopa Jr. Sings Elvis (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 23 May 2020 00:50 (two months ago) link

i want to dougie jones on it

Morton Koopa Jr. Sings Elvis (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 23 May 2020 00:51 (two months ago) link

Jon Bois' Breaking Madden series was some of the funniest sportswriting ever

frogbs, Saturday, 23 May 2020 03:00 (two months ago) link

I thought Pippin came off really well in the documentary, seemed like a good dude, amazing speaking voice

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 23 May 2020 03:26 (two months ago) link

Rewatching old bulls games I realize I really underrated Wennington at the time. He fit in the offense so well and shot around 50% taking a ton of midrange jumpers.

Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 24 May 2020 16:38 (two months ago) link

That baseline midrange was automatic

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 24 May 2020 18:24 (two months ago) link

Just watched his HOF speech. Funny the reaction it got at the time, which I didn't understand then even. I guess the general basketball watching public at that point had never heard the psycho competitor/motivational fuel stories.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 24 May 2020 18:26 (two months ago) link

Do we need a new thread for Rip City Revival?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRpRwJWB61M

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 25 May 2020 20:48 (two months ago) link

That Drexler-led Blazer team was enormous fun to watch. Another one of those triumphs of team chemistry creating something bigger than its parts.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 25 May 2020 20:59 (two months ago) link

i loved that blazers era; iirc everybody did

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 25 May 2020 21:01 (two months ago) link

Ya very fun team. Was Terry Porter as streaky in general as he was in 92 Finals? Sure didn't seem to lack confidence

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 25 May 2020 21:35 (two months ago) link

oh man that is like the most nostalgic catnip thing for my long forgotten youth possible fuck

Clay, Monday, 25 May 2020 22:10 (two months ago) link

i leave it to you to start a thread next week

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 25 May 2020 22:11 (two months ago) link

$100 million, damn Mike

this is to spite obama isn't it

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 23:25 (two months ago) link

xps to a couple weeks ago but that blazers doc wasn’t very good, just an hour long recap of a few playoff series and some soft lit interviews, nice thought but hard to do much on a whole era in 40 minutes other than say “hey, this happened”

Clay, Friday, 5 June 2020 23:44 (two months ago) link

400 pages into that Lazenby book. It is...thorough. Did notice one questionable mistruth: he says MJ directly told Gannt's ppl "republicans buy sneakers too" but it's been fairly well documented that it was an offhand remark to Sam Smith.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 6 June 2020 00:28 (two months ago) link

aw, i was still looking forward to rip city

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Saturday, 6 June 2020 00:35 (two months ago) link

i mean, it's not so bad you shouldn't watch it! it's just a 40 minute hour! but it's little more than a trip down memory lane

Clay, Saturday, 6 June 2020 01:42 (two months ago) link

you shouldnt watch it i didnt watch it its that bad

lag∞n, Saturday, 6 June 2020 02:11 (two months ago) link

friend just told me the director of the doc was a kid we grew up with, i wasnt tight with him or anything but i knew him he was nice pretty quiet

lag∞n, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:25 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

on netflix now btw just in case anybody missed it.

also: https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-the-nba-has-changed-since-the-jordan-rules

Sam Smith: I got a call from the director, and he said, “Hey, could you sit down? We’re doing this.” Jordan has never said a word to me about “The Jordan Rules.” Never once, in thirty years. At the end of the interview, I said, “Hey, tell me something. Did you have to ask Michael permission to talk to me?” And the guy kind of stammered a little bit. And he said, “Well, we actually did ask him if it was O.K.” And I said, “Well, what’d he say?” He said, “I don’t give a fuck who you talk to.” The way I understood it is, he didn’t say whether they could or could not. They weren’t sure whether they should.

I thought the documentary was more “based on a true story.” I think there was a little bit of drama put into it. It was Michael’s story. It wasn’t a journalistic documentary, per se. And it shouldn’t be. He never told his story before. People never heard it from his standpoint, and that’s what it was.

Do you feel like you understand him better from it?

No.


I had extraordinary access that doesn’t exist anymore, in any form. You can develop relationships. Media guys still develop the relationships. But these men and women who do that now have to produce something, like, every two hours. I would make other calls. I would check on things. I would hang out with players. The Bulls practiced in a public health club. I joined it as a member. So when they would lift weights after practice, I would be next to them. I wouldn’t lift weights, but I would be sitting with them. Now everything is privacy. The locker room was just open.

For a 7 p.m. game, Jordan would come at, like, 3 p.m. or something, so I’d get there and just talk with him for three hours. Now you’ve got ten minutes with guys, if that. LeBron is celebrated for being one of the few in the whole league who comes out before the game and gives the media five minutes. Jordan gave everybody three hours.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 21 July 2020 20:55 (three weeks ago) link

After watching, I also feel like MJ is still a cipher. Maybe there's just no "there" there. "MJ" devoured "Mike Jordan".

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 21 July 2020 21:02 (three weeks ago) link


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