battle of the hoops unicorns

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since the start of the 2016-2017 season, stats are per 36 mins:

giannis: 24.5p / 9.2r / 5.2a / 1.7s / 1.8b, shooting .527/.273/.772, .603 ts%, 27.4 PER
KAT: 23.4p / 11.9r / 2.4a / 0.7s / 1.3b, shooting .538/.376/.832, .619 ts%, 25.1 PER
jokic: 21.0p / 12.6r / 6.a / 1.2s / 0.9b, shooting .562/.344/.834, .631 ts%, 25.7 PER
porzingis: 22.1p / 7.8r / 1.4a / 0.7s / 2.2b, shooting .451/.364/.808, .549 ts%, 18.8 PER
embiid: 28.1p / 11.8r / 3.5a / 1.0s / 2.9b, shooting .476/.325/.793, .582 ts%, 23.8 PER

leaving giannis out of this because he seems to have separated himself from the pack. pick who you would start a team with

Poll Results

OptionVotes
joel embiid 16
karl-anthony towns 5
kristaps porzingis 4
nikola jokic 3


k3vin k., Monday, 25 December 2017 19:45 (eleven months ago) Permalink

giannis went missing from the ballot. how unicornish of him.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 25 December 2017 19:53 (eleven months ago) Permalink

leaving giannis out of this because he seems to have separated himself from the pack

I sort of think it would be crazy not to vote giannis at this point, but ppl can feel free to specify their votes with "I would take him over giannis" if they want

k3vin k., Monday, 25 December 2017 20:00 (eleven months ago) Permalink

at this point my feeling is that it's giannis >>> jokic > embiid = porzingis = towns but it's a really tough call

k3vin k., Monday, 25 December 2017 20:02 (eleven months ago) Permalink

argh that should be 6.1 assists for jokic btw

k3vin k., Monday, 25 December 2017 20:05 (eleven months ago) Permalink

giannis the obvs choice if made eligible, i voted zinger prob wld go with embiid if not for his injury history, jokic and towns fairly far behind imo for being one way players / having the wrong mindtype

lag∞n, Monday, 25 December 2017 21:48 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Agreed. Though I'm just going to choose embiid anyway

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Monday, 25 December 2017 22:13 (eleven months ago) Permalink

porzingis’ numbers are objectively the worst of the bunch, including basically every other stat, but it’s weird it just FEELS like he’s on a different level than the rest, hard to tell if it’s him playing in NYC or the big scoring numbers or what. I think any order of these 4 guys is reasonable tho including zinger last

k3vin k., Monday, 25 December 2017 22:24 (eleven months ago) Permalink

the thing u have to be able to do is project into the future

lag∞n, Monday, 25 December 2017 22:28 (eleven months ago) Permalink

yeah def that’s kind of what I was getting at, it’s easy to see him becoming a more efficient scorer and playing great defense, then again he might not and it will be easy to point to his peers being better than him at this stage of their careers and wonder why we believed otherwise

k3vin k., Monday, 25 December 2017 22:31 (eleven months ago) Permalink

embiid takes this pretty easily imo, zinger hasn't been injured much yet but certainly profiles as an injury/short career guy so i wouldn't take him with longevity in mind.

i'm not overly impressed with the other two.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 01:54 (eleven months ago) Permalink

feel like ppl are underrating jokic a little here, out of the 5 he’s the best passer, best rebounder, most efficient scorer, and has already been the focal point of the best offense in the NBA

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 02:12 (eleven months ago) Permalink

it just seems so dang hard to build a winning team that revolves around a one-way all offense big man.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 02:44 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i wanna vote for ben simmons

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:19 (eleven months ago) Permalink

of these 4 i think embiid is getting to the point that he's so good it would be worth the injury risk. then i'd go KAT > zinger > jokic

i guess that's the chalk ranking but i could easily flip KP and KAT. i think ultimately i'd take KAT's mobility and offensive versatility over KP being like a 3 and D center, basically, but i think KP has elite defensive potential and can clearly be the focal point of an offense. still seems like his realistic outcome is like... a very good version of miami chris bosh which is great if you have that dominant #1 wing next to him.

jokic is fun obv but the defense is worrisome and i wonder how his game would translate to the playoffs

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:24 (eleven months ago) Permalink

I really considered including him, maybe I should have xp

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:25 (eleven months ago) Permalink

jokic is fun obv but the defense is worrisome and i wonder how his game would translate to the playoffs

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:24 PM (fifty-one seconds ago)

you don't think being arguably the most impactful half court offensive player in the league would translate to the offs??

I swear if he played in new york and porzingis played in denver people would view them a lot differently

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:26 (eleven months ago) Permalink

simmons def more of a unicorn than kat or jokic

lag∞n, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:27 (eleven months ago) Permalink

you don't think being arguably the most impactful half court offensive player in the league would translate to the offs??

I swear if he played in new york and porzingis played in denver people would view them a lot differently

― k3vin k., Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:26 PM (twenty-nine seconds ago) Bookmark

jokic is not arguably the most impactful half court offensive player in the league

my issue is just about when playoff games get down to 1 on 1 scoring whether jokic's impact would be minimized

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:28 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i think i would take simmons over all these guys... prob even embiid bcuz of health

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:29 (eleven months ago) Permalink

simmons shooting and defense still huge question marks hes obvs xtremely talented but cld still end up maxing out in the gifted but flawed range, feel like hes at least somewhat benefiting in ppls projections from being a red shirt rookie

lag∞n, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:33 (eleven months ago) Permalink

he'll prob never be able to shoot but having a guy who can credibly play 1-5 with that level of basketball IQ feels like the most valuable possible thing you could have in today's NBA

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:36 (eleven months ago) Permalink

aside from having that guy and him being able to shoot (bron, KD etc)... but even if simmons is just 1 level below those guys that could still be the best player in the nba in 5 years

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:36 (eleven months ago) Permalink

he'll prob never be able to shoot but having a guy who can credibly play 1-5 with that level of basketball IQ feels like the most valuable possible thing you could have in today's NBA

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:36 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he cant really credibly play the 1-5 its more of a novelty thing on a not that good team, in fact his bad shooting really limits his positional flexibility, if u cant shoot and youre super tall in todays nba u prob shd be playing the 5, but its unclear if hell ever be a good enough defender to be there, not to mention that he has a really good teammate who plays there, embiid can shoot tho so its seems like using simmons as a driver in five out situations and as a facilitator at the elbows cld work

lag∞n, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:43 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Kinda wonder if Brow should be on here? He's only 12 months older than Embiid.

assuming normal health for these guys:

—KATs stock has taken a huge beating over the 12 months, rightfully so. If he cant get to at least a league average defense then he'll never reach above where he's at currently.

—I love Jokic as much as anyone but I have concerns about his conditioning and willingness to be 'the guy' took him about 2/3 of the season last year to get it going and he's been pretty passive so far this season as well, even after the Milsap injury he hasn't seemed to have that killer instinct.

—Zinger has to get more rebounds imo, no excuse not to be getting 9-10 a game. And he's a bit of a black hole, 1.4 assists per36 is really low for someone who has the ball so much.

—Embiid takes this for me (since Giannis is excluded), biggest concern for me is his turnover rate. Also shoots too many threes. I've seen a lot of possessions ending with him having to chuck a bad long two cos he didnt make a move early enough in the shot clock and had to repost or the ball came back to him after everything else failed.

Spottie, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:43 (eleven months ago) Permalink

simmons def has all the tools to be a great defender tho if he cld put that part together itd prob put him over the top into superstar status

lag∞n, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:44 (eleven months ago) Permalink

when i say simmons can play 1-5 i mean that you can pretty much start any line up with him and not worry too much about which "position" he's going to play. it provides an incredible amount of flexibility! i think he'll be able to guard centers and guards on switches pretty seamlessly. it's not like he's gonna be banging in the post for 20 minutes a game.

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i mean it took durant like 10 years until he would really protect the rim but i don't see why simmons couldn't get there

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink

short arms, for one.

Spottie, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:48 (eleven months ago) Permalink

btw the NBA really has to do a better job of making its stats more easily findable. why is it so hard to find leaders in PPP in the half court or whatever

anyway jokic was top 10 in ORTG last year, was the focal point of the #1 offense in the league once he became a starter, and all the synergy numbers basically showed him being a half court savant in terms of scoring in the paint and creating offense. he also crushes all these dudes in real plus minus, if you put any stock into that at all

I think the fact that his impact is spread out over several very different skills makes it hard for people to appreciate but it's pretty hard at this point, based on the numbers we have at hand, to argue that he is not at the very least right with the rest of these guys (giannis excluded), if not out in front.

I def hope he becomes more comfortable as a first option scorer but if he ends up being a guy who gives you 22-13-6 on like .630 ts%...that's a superstar, and arguably just as good as porzingis's 30-7-2 on slightly above average efficiency

also in terms of defense, rebounding is actually a pretty important part of defense iirc, and he is the best of this group

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:50 (eleven months ago) Permalink

many xps

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:51 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i havent seen too much evidence simmons can stay w guards on D when ive watched even if hes "playing point guard" on offense hes always cross matched to a forward, also having him as a non shooting primary ballhandler is exactly the type of things teams will punish mercilessly in the playoffs if the sixers ever get there, just go under every screen bump him back a step on all those weird running hooks he takes etc

lag∞n, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:51 (eleven months ago) Permalink

didn't include brow because I felt like as he's in his 6th season he's already more of a known entity than these dudes, also he's way ahead numbers wise

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 December 2017 20:53 (eleven months ago) Permalink

I swear if he played in new york and porzingis played in denver people would view them a lot differently

― k3vin k., Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:26 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree with this in that zinger would be viewed as another tantalizing but probably flawed nuggets prospect.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 26 December 2017 21:08 (eleven months ago) Permalink

http://bkref.com/tiny/CAwyh

the are-we-sure-porzingis-is-that-good update

k3vin k., Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:01 (eleven months ago) Permalink

zinger started off on total fire and has been very bad since

lag∞n, Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:05 (eleven months ago) Permalink

still his potential as a two way player is xtremely tantalizing

lag∞n, Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:06 (eleven months ago) Permalink

he carries more of a load offensively than any of the other 3

J0rdan S., Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:42 (eleven months ago) Permalink

why is he bad at all the other stuff then lol

k3vin k., Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:43 (eleven months ago) Permalink

i don't think he is personally

also he plays out of position

J0rdan S., Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink

yeah that might have something to do with it, though he considers himself a PF and who knows whether he could really handle full center minutes at this stage of his career

you definitely can't ignore his potential and I grant that numbers aren't everything but...there aren't a whole lot of encouraging signs when you look you look at most of the publicly available stuff. and other than getting a lot of blocks I'm not aware of any of the defensive numbers being in love with him either

k3vin k., Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:54 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Kristaps Porzingis: ‘I’m tired. I’m tired. I’m so tired right now’ https://t.co/XifNxZiPry

— Kurt Helin (@basketballtalk) January 4, 2018

lag∞n, Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:55 (eleven months ago) Permalink

the team he's on is still such a trainwreck that i don't take much from some of his more questionable stats.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:56 (eleven months ago) Permalink

wow great timing

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 January 2018 23:56 (eleven months ago) Permalink

his assist and rebounding numbers are, plainly, atrocious. he's pretty elite at avoiding turnovers, tho this might be because he never passes

the jury is still out on him as an efficient scorer -- you can definitely make the case that a young player like him has to get buckets first and then figure out how to score efficiently. but he's a league average 3p shooter right now and is shooting less than 50% on twos, and his percentage of total FGA that are between 10ft and the 3pt line has increased from 31% last year to 44% this year

k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 00:06 (eleven months ago) Permalink

knicks shd cut bait and trade him to the celtics imho

lag∞n, Friday, 5 January 2018 00:11 (eleven months ago) Permalink

he does need to learn how to pass....i think he would rebound more if he played more center and played less w/kanter.

i was dumbstruck to discover that the knicks have to give minutes to kanter, o'quinn, AND jo noah to the extent that hernangomez, who i really like, barely plays.

call all destroyer, Friday, 5 January 2018 00:15 (eleven months ago) Permalink

yeah wld agree that injuries are the biggest threat to zinger superstardom, the health record of guys his height is not too good

lag∞n, Friday, 12 January 2018 16:10 (eleven months ago) Permalink

maybe all the guys in this poll are bad actually, embiid is still as undisciplined as a rookie and the other two cant defend

lag∞n, Friday, 12 January 2018 16:11 (eleven months ago) Permalink

simmons also is bad giannis is good tho

lag∞n, Friday, 12 January 2018 16:13 (eleven months ago) Permalink

but it wld be good to get a look at the zinger on a functional/team org, seeing dirk on that list of seven footers who managed big minutes and usage makes me wonder if his goto elbow shot wasnt just employed so much cause it was effective but also cause it didnt use that much energy, zinger shd just practice that shot lol

lag∞n, Friday, 12 January 2018 16:16 (eleven months ago) Permalink

from Lowes piece:

• Porzingis has hit half of his shots in three of his past 16 games. He doesn't rebound or pass enough; his go-to move is catching the ball 15 feet from the rim, whipping around without taking a dribble or scanning the court, and launching. When he's going badly, Porzingis almost looks like a rich man's Harrison Barnes -- a guy who gets buckets one-on-one in the middle of the court, but doesn't really elevate his team in doing so.

Spottie, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 17:30 (ten months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

I voted KAT, who I predict is not going to be a consensus winner here due to his conspicuous defensive failings. otoh, I predict he will be extremely durable physically and have a long and very productive career, during which time, if he starts to get to the playoffs regularly, he'll improve his defense enough to not be a liability.

Embiid may surpass KAT in my esteem in the next few years, but his durability is open to doubt. As a Blazer fan, I've seen too many talented bigs go down in flames with shortened careers due to injury.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 18:55 (nine months ago) Permalink

I get bad vibes from KAT

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 19:13 (nine months ago) Permalink

what kind of bad vibes?

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 19:16 (nine months ago) Permalink

Admittedly haven't seen a whole lot of him, but from what I have seen he strikes me as lacking qualities that old dudes like me value: heart, toughness, fire, things of that nature. I can't see building a champ-caliber team around him.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 19:22 (nine months ago) Permalink

The unanswered question on KAT: is he Shaq-style unserious or Dwight-style unserious?

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 20:06 (nine months ago) Permalink

i was down on kat bigtime upthread for playing some of the worst defense ever but since then hes been totally better that fast improvement is heartening imho, on the flipside zingers stock is fn down exhaustion then injury does not bode well

lag∞n, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 20:52 (nine months ago) Permalink

yeah man zinger has dropped significantly.

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:00 (nine months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...
three weeks pass...

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 19 April 2018 00:01 (seven months ago) Permalink

i voted

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Thursday, 19 April 2018 00:04 (seven months ago) Permalink

it’s fuckin embiid btw

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 April 2018 02:20 (seven months ago) Permalink

it’s fuckin embiid btw

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 April 2018 02:20 (seven months ago) Permalink

yup

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:02 (seven months ago) Permalink

embiid prob wld win unanimously if not for the injury concerns

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:05 (seven months ago) Permalink

this is the minors tho the real poll is giannis v brow

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:06 (seven months ago) Permalink

brow is def above giannis atm

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:10 (seven months ago) Permalink

lot of ppl like giannis long term tho

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:12 (seven months ago) Permalink

simmons
embiid
giannis
brow

might make a good pt 2

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:13 (seven months ago) Permalink

hmmm now you have to make the poll thats the rules

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:23 (seven months ago) Permalink

ill wait to see who wins this one then bump them up to the bigs

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 03:25 (seven months ago) Permalink

eesh

Knicks owner James Dolan says Kristaps Porzingis may miss all of next season while he recovers from ACL surgery. 😱 https://t.co/LhYBNKqbcZ pic.twitter.com/aAs8qana1f

— Yahoo Sports (@YahooSports) April 19, 2018

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 20:44 (seven months ago) Permalink

wtf, complications or is just cos he's a giant? horrible news.

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Thursday, 19 April 2018 20:45 (seven months ago) Permalink

sounds like it cld just be dolan running his mouth tbh

“I’ve been told everything from December to him being out for the season, so I don’t know what to expect on that,” Dolan told the New York Post’s Larry Brooks this week. “But we can’t just sit on our ass while he’s away. We need to develop a team and then integrate him into it when he comes back.”

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 20:47 (seven months ago) Permalink

love when dolan gets more involved

they call me melo gelo (Spottie), Thursday, 19 April 2018 20:50 (seven months ago) Permalink

he shd def take on the project of developing a team

lag∞n, Thursday, 19 April 2018 20:51 (seven months ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 20 April 2018 00:01 (seven months ago) Permalink

battle of the hoops unicorns —2—

lag∞n, Friday, 20 April 2018 02:18 (seven months ago) Permalink

six months pass...

jokic last huh

k3vin k., Saturday, 27 October 2018 19:58 (one month ago) Permalink

I am shocked to think ilh may have failed to accurately predict the future

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 27 October 2018 20:11 (one month ago) Permalink

the thing u have to be able to do is project into the future

― lag∞n, Monday, December 25, 2017 3:28 PM (ten months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Machine Gunk Jelly (Spottie), Saturday, 27 October 2018 20:24 (one month ago) Permalink

told u but u dont listen

lag∞n, Monday, 29 October 2018 03:15 (one month ago) Permalink

i definitely voted for jokic here even though there's no proof

ciderpress, Monday, 29 October 2018 03:30 (one month ago) Permalink

unicornism is out of style now

lag∞n, Monday, 29 October 2018 03:34 (one month ago) Permalink


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