DRAY v KLAY

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aka KLAY-O v THE-DRAYM pt 2. who is better at basketball iyo

Poll Results

OptionVotes
klay 16
dray 6


k3vin k., Friday, 24 February 2017 16:53 (seven years ago) link

if basketball=nut kicking dray is HOF

(•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, 24 February 2017 16:55 (seven years ago) link

pretty damn hard to pick imo.

Spottie, Friday, 24 February 2017 16:59 (seven years ago) link

not that hard imo, golden state's roster serves to underrate klay and overrate draymond. put draymond on an average team and ppl would talk about him roughly like how they talk about steven adams.

call all destroyer, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:04 (seven years ago) link

need to try to remember some of my old logins

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:05 (seven years ago) link

imo if you put klay on a bad team he puts up an empty 24-25 ppg. if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

k3vin k., Friday, 24 February 2017 17:08 (seven years ago) link

Klay is one of the best shooters in the league and a serviceable perimeter defender. Dray is a better defender and a worse shooter (significantly) who can do more things on the court tho i think his 3 pt ability is perhaps more significant given his position and who he guards. i think if u put both of them on teams w league avg dudes, klay's team would put up more than wins, and generally speaking i think klay's skillset is more generally valuable so i vote Klay

art, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:13 (seven years ago) link

dray is an all world defender but a far below average scorer and a good playmaker where people think hes great cause hes playing with great players to playmake with

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:18 (seven years ago) link

i think he might have a thing for kicking people in the nuts . not sure if that's a pos or a neg tho

(•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, 24 February 2017 17:22 (seven years ago) link

draymond has only kicked someone in the nuts once tbf

Spottie, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:26 (seven years ago) link

phil spector only shot someone once too, just gonna put that out there

nomar, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:27 (seven years ago) link

it true we shd prob refer to drays repeat behavior as nut hunting

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:28 (seven years ago) link

exactly

Spottie, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:31 (seven years ago) link

dray is better but that doesn't excuse his nut hunting

ciderpress, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:33 (seven years ago) link

put draymond on an average team and ppl would talk about him roughly like how they talk about steven adams.

― call all destroyer, Friday, February 24, 2017 12:04 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

this is crazy

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 18:04 (seven years ago) link

draymond is no offensive superstar but he has a serviceable three point shot and is one of the best playmaking bigs in the game

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 18:05 (seven years ago) link

klay is elite at one of the most important skills in the NBA but i agree that on a middling team he'd be mostly empty points, gimme dray's all around game and crazy intensity

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 18:07 (seven years ago) link

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 18:08 (seven years ago) link

his playmaking is good but no one wld be talking abt it if he wasnt playing with guys who constantly create the halfcourt fast break, like he cant take advantage of ppl going under on the pnr cause hes not a good enough shooter etc, hed have 4-5 assists a game on a normal team, and lets be clear on his scoring hes shooting 43% and scoring 10 a game in a situation where he gets more open looks than anyone else in the entire nba, hes is bad at doing points

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:11 (seven years ago) link

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 24, 2017 1:08 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the warriors shd be given credit for coming up with a great system for their players, the difference between the jackson years and now is lol, but there are a lot of players that cld work in drays spot the system wld just have to shift, which isnt that hard to do when you have the talent they do

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link

there are more players like klay in the NBA than there are like draymond

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 18:18 (seven years ago) link

only a very handful of guys who can shoot like klay, which is the single most valuable basketball skill

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link

and besides basketball isnt decided on scarcity, its decided on being good at basketball

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:22 (seven years ago) link

idk we can do the "on a bad team" thing all day, if draymond is on a bad team he's putting up like a 13/8/4 with lousy shooting percentages. he plays great in their system but his teammates are literally the best shooters in the league so i'm not sure how much he's elevating them further.

call all destroyer, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:32 (seven years ago) link

i think we can all agree that most of his value is on the other side of the ball regardless, hes great at lots of different defensive things

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:35 (seven years ago) link

it's true he's one of the best defenders in the NBA

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 19:36 (seven years ago) link

he is insanely good and versatile at D, maybe the most versatile defender since kg?

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 19:39 (seven years ago) link

yeah can't think of too many guys since who were unmovable on the block and also a terror while on the move

J0rdan S., Friday, 24 February 2017 19:47 (seven years ago) link

his playmaking is good but no one wld be talking abt it if he wasnt playing with guys who constantly create the halfcourt fast break, like he cant take advantage of ppl going under on the pnr cause hes not a good enough shooter etc, hed have 4-5 assists a game on a normal team, and lets be clear on his scoring hes shooting 43% and scoring 10 a game in a situation where he gets more open looks than anyone else in the entire nba, hes is bad at doing points

― lag∞n, Friday, February 24, 2017 1:11 PM (four hours ago)

his usage is like 15% because he plays on the same team as the 2 best offensive players in the NBA, come on

k3vin k., Friday, 24 February 2017 22:38 (seven years ago) link

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 24, 2017 1:08 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the warriors shd be given credit for coming up with a great system for their players, the difference between the jackson years and now is lol, but there are a lot of players that cld work in drays spot the system wld just have to shift, which isnt that hard to do when you have the talent they do

― lag∞n, Friday, February 24, 2017 1:13 PM (four hours ago)

omg you might have heard of this thing called the death lineup for which he is the centerpiece

k3vin k., Friday, 24 February 2017 22:39 (seven years ago) link

lol he is not

lag∞n, Friday, 24 February 2017 23:17 (seven years ago) link

without dray that lineup gives up approximately one million points per possession

k3vin k., Saturday, 25 February 2017 01:15 (seven years ago) link

well yeah playing 4 on 5 is never gonna work

lag∞n, Saturday, 25 February 2017 01:19 (seven years ago) link

oh you

k3vin k., Saturday, 25 February 2017 01:49 (seven years ago) link

lol

call all destroyer, Saturday, 25 February 2017 01:50 (seven years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Monday, 6 March 2017 00:01 (seven years ago) link

imo if you put klay on a bad team he puts up an empty 24-25 ppg. if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

I don't think "he would just average 25 ppg" is a strong argument that someone is a system player

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 6 March 2017 01:32 (seven years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 00:01 (seven years ago) link

lol

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 00:55 (seven years ago) link

bad results!!

k3vin k., Thursday, 9 March 2017 13:12 (seven years ago) link

is results the name of your dog?

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Thursday, 9 March 2017 19:16 (seven years ago) link

im with k3vin on this one

ciderpress, Thursday, 9 March 2017 20:49 (seven years ago) link

it is quite possible that many ilh voters mistakenly believed they were voting for beloved poster me, thus skewing the results

Clay, Thursday, 9 March 2017 22:52 (seven years ago) link

i know i did

Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Thursday, 9 March 2017 22:56 (seven years ago) link

i thought i was voting for pottery

removed from the rain drops and drop tops of experience (ulysses), Friday, 10 March 2017 09:24 (seven years ago) link

I voted for Klay to revolt against the elites

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 10 March 2017 20:12 (seven years ago) link

ugh so mad at you

k3vin k., Friday, 10 March 2017 23:04 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

something for everyone here

“You know what, Steph Curry has took a step back,” Rodman said. “And it’s cool. It’s actually cool because if you see his game now, I always said with that Golden State team, I always say one thing: that one player is the player right there that makes that team. Who is that player?…

“That is right there: Thompson,” Rodman said. “That kid right there is good. If he went to another team, he’d suck. What I’m saying is that Klay Thompson makes that team. Everybody’s always worried about Curry. I know Curry’s dad and all that bulls—. But Klay Thompson makes that team. It ain’t Green, that guy, no. It’s Klay Thompson.”

nomar, Wednesday, 5 April 2017 21:13 (seven years ago) link

the sea was angry that day my friends

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Monday, 10 January 2022 14:24 (two years ago) link

Based on today, gotta say Dray.

DJI, Friday, 14 January 2022 01:32 (two years ago) link

four months pass...

after 2 long years, we are back klay 🥺pic.twitter.com/BJb89Lx8dN

— ✸ (@seacaptainklay) May 27, 2022

Chyiv Kyiv (Fetchboy), Friday, 27 May 2022 04:34 (two years ago) link

KRAY

Spottie, Friday, 27 May 2022 06:15 (two years ago) link

kray confirmed

ciderpress, Friday, 27 May 2022 14:23 (two years ago) link

the kray brothers

oh wait

micah, Friday, 27 May 2022 19:54 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

This moment made me laugh out loud. Dray with the most Dray answer possible:

"I didn't learn anything about myself, I been knew I was resilient" _ Draymond Green pic.twitter.com/NZ828ZhvqV

— CJ Fogler AKA Perc70 #BlackLivesMatter (@cjzero) June 17, 2022

Chyiv Kyiv (Fetchboy), Sunday, 19 June 2022 16:50 (two years ago) link

He really hasn't changed that much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsvC8bRQ_T0

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Sunday, 19 June 2022 17:00 (two years ago) link

perfect answer to a dumb question

brimstead, Sunday, 19 June 2022 17:45 (two years ago) link

Perfect

Klay & Dray pic.twitter.com/pIdXqXVcc4

— Jack Perkins (@purehoop) June 19, 2022

Spottie, Sunday, 19 June 2022 20:52 (two years ago) link

Klay lost his championship hat while boating to the parade 😭pic.twitter.com/8UJ6f5r4sS

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 20, 2022

Antifa Lockhart (Leee), Monday, 20 June 2022 17:42 (two years ago) link

LMAO KLAY pic.twitter.com/U8XNnaLkER

— Chris Montano (@gswchris) June 20, 2022

Spottie, Monday, 20 June 2022 20:54 (two years ago) link

careful with those ACLs man

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 June 2022 21:54 (two years ago) link

I suspect Klay was using a performance decreasing drug

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 20 June 2022 21:55 (two years ago) link

did he stage losing the champs hat just so he could wear his sailor hat to the parade

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Monday, 20 June 2022 21:57 (two years ago) link

hah i think so

Spottie, Monday, 20 June 2022 22:22 (two years ago) link

Dying.

"Real mature, Draymond"

Steph and Dray were losing it while Klay had the mic 🤣 pic.twitter.com/Ym1h27836u

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 20, 2022

DJI, Monday, 20 June 2022 23:40 (two years ago) link

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-draymond-green-cj-mccollum-navigate-the-double-dipping-player-media-dynamic-200541988.html

McCollum, a journalism major, felt a responsibility to inform Green of his Finals prediction in person rather than the forward being surprised to learn McCollum’s position on national television.

Being a bystander amid the conversation, McCollum and Green allowed Yahoo Sports to publish the details of their conversation.

“I’ve got to tell you this. I picked Boston to win Game 3, I picked you guys to win Game 4. But ultimately, I’ve got the Celtics winning the Finals,” McCollum told Green. “I just want you to hear it from me first before you hear me say it on TV.”

Green, without hesitation, responded, “That’s fine. Those Celtics will still be ringless just like you. Respect.”

Antifa Lockhart (Leee), Tuesday, 21 June 2022 18:34 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

while I think the basketball part of this question is pretty settled (in favor of dray), klay definitely wins the wkiw battle

Klay just demolished this beer at the Giants-Dodgers game 😂 pic.twitter.com/20e49t3mOM

— NBC Sports Bay Area & CA (@NBCSAuthentic) July 24, 2022

k3vin k., Sunday, 24 July 2022 22:51 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

We are the same fr pic.twitter.com/0L2PbqM8iK

— villalobos (@RamonVillalobos) December 16, 2022

lag∞n, Friday, 16 December 2022 22:44 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Took me way too many takes to understand what actually happened in this shot

Give Dray the max now! 🤣 pic.twitter.com/rUcosSaMCe

— ²³ (@PlayoffDraymond) January 28, 2023

Chyiv Kyiv (Fetchboy), Saturday, 4 February 2023 06:51 (one year ago) link

that’s trippy

k3vin k., Saturday, 4 February 2023 11:20 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

did we ever figure this one out?

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:03 (five months ago) link

both going through a rough patch

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:05 (five months ago) link

Pretty clear say is the 2nd best player on the team now (when he’s available)

infinite wiggles (Spottie), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:13 (five months ago) link

total value the past 10 years not even close imo from outsider perspective

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:18 (five months ago) link

well you like rudy gobert

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:20 (five months ago) link

oh come on man lol

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:31 (five months ago) link

something to think about

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:32 (five months ago) link

I’m sorry who is putting klay over dray when it is all said and done apart from various grudge holding francophones I shallnt hear it

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:38 (five months ago) link

francophobes****

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:38 (five months ago) link

Dray delivers a lot of solid defense, plenty of ugly nut hunting, flops, technical fouls and childish jawing, very competent passing and rebounding, minimal points scored, and frequent suspensions. What you see is what you get. He's disruptive in both the good and bad sense.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:41 (five months ago) link

i mean we could just review the thread instead of posting the same arguments again but on any team but the steph klay warriors dray wouldve been a huge offensive liability, a pure defensive specialist, granted the best defender around many years, but still he got very lucky if he had spent his career on normal teams he would be thought of radically different than he is now

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:44 (five months ago) link

and thats not even getting into all the extracurricular stuff like recruiting kd

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:46 (five months ago) link

it’s not just that he was a defensive specialist (and it seems worth pointing out, probably one of the 3 most important defenders of his generation), but he was also such an important connector on offense esp in an era where such skills were less commonplace. that’s not to say he didn’t need great offensive teammates to unlock his full potential but contrast that with klay who was more of a straightforward “piece” (tho obv at his best an elite one) rather than a foundational mold-breaking dude

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:50 (five months ago) link

he was a great connector because he played with a guy who was consistently trapped high meaning dray was consistently operating with an advantage, connecting skills in a normal halfcourt set up where everyone is being guarded when a guy (dray) is just no threat to score from anywhere arent that valuable

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:56 (five months ago) link

i invite you to peruse his numbers from the year steph missed, theyre not great

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 02:58 (five months ago) link

i think it’s true that klay’s game would more easily adapt to different situations… he has prob one of the most complimentary skillsets/playing styles you could imagine

but i’m of the opinion that the steph & dray offensive combo is more so what makes the warriors sui generis than the steph & klay combo. i think you could very easily take the other side of the argument! but i think the chemistry between steph & dray is what makes the warriors offense — i think steph hits all the same individual accolades as a player if draymond ends up on a different team but i don’t think he hits nearly the same team accolades. and i think you could have taken klay off the warriors and maybe found a player who got you to 90% of his contributions, i think it would have been harder to find a replacement for peak draymond, bcuz of how much of his play with steph is just mindmeld type stuff, and how much his defense powered their offense in those years in terms of getting out on the fast break and avalanching teams. maybe you can find another great small ball 5 defender (tho prob not!) but i just buy into the idea that there is something about him & steph that is just him & steph

so in a sense you’re both making correct points. i think in this poll, my understanding of it, i’m voting (i voted?) DRAY

slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, 16 February 2024 02:59 (five months ago) link

i think dray absolutely fit beautifully with this warriors team, and that does include klay, but i also think you could build a million different great teams of all different configurations around steph, one reason dray really takes steph to the next level with this team is theyve always been short on ball handling and playmaking and dray provides that

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 03:05 (five months ago) link

of course one of the reasons they were short on ball handling and play making is klay does not dribble or pass

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 03:07 (five months ago) link

can i say one of the things that annoys me with the canonization of dray is people are always talking about the grabbing and going and say how many teams have a center who can do that, and they say that about a lot of the stuff he does, but dray has spent the great majority of his career playing the four, and the reason for that is he couldnt hold up as a full time center

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 03:11 (five months ago) link

not that many true 4s doing that either!

truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 February 2024 03:13 (five months ago) link

its a lot more than centers, i mean no ones saying whos got a four who can do that because then youd have to list a bunch of teams and the point wouldnt really land, which is why they say center

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 03:16 (five months ago) link

if we're talking about who's more essential to the dubs dynasty i think the answer is dray based on all the otm stuff jordan said a few posts ago.

the original q of this thread was "who is better at basketball" which sounds more like a simmonsy where do they rank in the pantheon kind of thing tho, and to that i can't help but feel like dray's career ended up being his absolute best case scenario, whereas we'll never really know how klay would have developed as a player if he had had to be the guy. not saying the klay we ended up with wasn't the perfect match for his role, but i can imagine his game developing differently and his racking up more individual type accolades if he hadn't playing next to steph, maybe was instead paired with a conventional all star big man like lamarcus aldridge or something

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 16 February 2024 03:20 (five months ago) link

idk i think one of the things that makes the question interesting is klay also benefited from being on the warriors i mean what does a shooter want but open shots, in conclusion the answer to dray vs kay is steph

lag∞n, Friday, 16 February 2024 03:23 (five months ago) link

can't argue with that

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 16 February 2024 04:10 (five months ago) link

i think klay is prob a better basketball player but i also think klay’s skills are very identifiable — quick release, perfect form, ability to shoot at crazy angles, could put it on the floor in his prime. even on defense, what he did — guard the best perimeter player — was very central to the action occupying the eye.

with dray some of his skills are like that, like when he runs the break as a big, his passing, his chemistry with steph would be apparent to even a novice. but a lot of what he does especially on defense is him having a very sharp basketball mind, not rim protection or locking down the no 1 man or whatever. it’s entirely possible he’s the better basketball player than klay

slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, 16 February 2024 07:48 (five months ago) link

They're both Brock Purdy and Steph is Shanahan. System players.

Come on, they've had individual and team performances that are all time. Dray's game 7 performance in the 2016 finals says everything about him. He's the ultimate team player and when motivated would have been an elite piece on any team. His superpower is his drive and pettiness.

octobeard, Friday, 16 February 2024 09:50 (five months ago) link

As well as intelligence. The only way he's a "bust" is if some completely incompetent coaching missed his potential.

octobeard, Friday, 16 February 2024 09:58 (five months ago) link

By bust I mean "average" or an afterthought of a player. As a second rounder, any value is a win.

octobeard, Friday, 16 February 2024 10:28 (five months ago) link


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