NBA State of Play – Rule Changes – Trends – CBA – Schedule Reform – Load Mgmt – etc

no hugging, only hoop

hug fouls *are* beautiful

otm they so much better than the old-fashioned hard-hack fouling that players indulged in, in the same situations

its possible to do neither

ah! you're calling for matador defense on drives during close games! that's not the beautiful game that I know.

im calling for playing defense

how many hug fouls do you see being taken when a defensive player is in position to get a clean block? hug fouls are just intentional fouls that don't hurt anyone and are taken because the defensive player knows he can't stop a score any other way.

yeah exactly if you cant stop a score by playing basketball then the guy should be allowed to score, if you take a hard foul its a flagrant, and if you hug up is should be a flagrant, because its not a basketball play

same logic as penalizing the take foul

flagrants involve excessive force, which is more than just 'a hard common foul'. those happen in every game. the reasoning behind flagrants is to avoid injuries. i'd predict an increase in garden variety hard fouls if wrap-ups are punished like flagrants. because players will still do whatever is the most strategic response to prevent a sure score in a close game. if you start asking refs to determine if a common foul taken during a drive was intentional or not you'll start down a road nobody wants to see. but that's the same logic as penalizing the 'take' foul.

how does penalizing wrap ups have anything to do with whether a common foul is intentional or not lol

i'll spell it out.

flagrants have a separate function having nothing to do with intention and everything to do with penalizing actions that cause injuries.

take fouls have nothing to do with avoiding injury and everything to do with 'a clear path' to a score.

hug fouls never occur when there is a genuinely clear path because they happen too close to the hoop and a defender is in their path. they do not use excessive force. therefore they are simply a common foul, but intentional. the only thing you want to punish is the intentionality of it. you apparently believe that it's the intention to foul to prevent a score that deserves harsher penalties. nothing else.

so, you aren't really following the logic of the take foul, but a new logic that says when a defender intentionally fouls for the purpose of preventing a layup or dunk then that should be treated as a flagrant. ofc, that intention is obvious with a wrap-up foul, but the logic requires penalizing the intention, not the means used. if you only apply that logic to wrap-ups, you're only inviting defenders to commit more dangerous fouls, as close to edge of flagrant as they dare.

just make a play on the ball without endangering anyone its not that complicated, play basketball not the foul game, and hug fouls as they with from now on be know are done primarily to prevent the and 1, obviously

legalize fouls imo

the nba has been good about getting more basketball in basketball games, via rules around flagrant fouls, the hack-a, take fouls, having fewer timeouts, and now they simply must eliminate the hugging foul, if you cant stop a lebron and 1 without hugging or hurting him then the man should get his and 1

or just let him dunk, thats the defenders prerogative

if you cant stop a lebron and 1 without hugging or hurting him then the man should get his and 1

During most of the game defenders will not foul intentionally, because it isn't strategic. For at least the first three and a half quarters there's plenty of game left, more shots to take and good defense to play to win the game. But when the game is very close and nearly over there will always be intentional fouls. Logic dictates that a dunk is a much easier, more certain way to score two points than taking two free throws, so you stop the dunk and dgif about fouling.

I guess you could up the ante for fouls in the last two minutes even further than currently, but that would have to apply to every foul in order to make sense, not just hug-fouls. Otherwise you're just back to penalizing intention differently and making the refs figure it out. Or else you are penalizing hugging differently because it 'looks bad'.

you could just eliminate hug fouls

so I guess 'looks bad' is a good enough reason for you. but it won't change anything of substance

hugging up is substantially different than other intentional fouls the whole point of it is to eliminate continuation, and it looks bad, but thats why it looks bad

if you eliminate dangerously hard fouls which has already happened, and you eliminate hugging fouls which which lord willing will happen, then even intentional fouls have continuation, and were playing basketball, as god intended

the take foul rule and the refs' implementation of it is far from perfect but it's so much better to have it on the books than not. you could definitely do the exact same as the hug foul as far as penalizing it with free throws + retaining possession.

i would be fine with other obviously non basketball play type fouls getting the same treatment, pushing, grabbing for instance

it would be a big change in how the NBA is played bcuz you see this exact play like 5-6 times per game at least. bit this just makes no sense esp in a world where 20% of the league is setting historic highs in per possession scoring

Maxey fouled out on this pic.twitter.com/hLESEacKZx

— Brett Usher (@UsherNBA) January 11, 2024

yeah i hate that foul

it has to change, truly ruining the game flow and aesthetics

literally looks like the kind of thing they would have in a training video for “here’s how to play close but not foul”

It’s so easy to eradicate too. Just swallow the whistle early in the game and the players stop doing it.

yeah i hate that shit

also if you wedgie the ball it should be side out for the defense not this jump ball garbage. if you shoot that badly it should be a turnover

Mentioned this on the podcast on Monday, but this stuff is a prime example of why the 65-game rule for awards sucks.

Haliburton has $41M on the line. He’s wildly incentivized to come back early to become eligible for All-NBA. Now, looks like he didn’t respond well to coming back https://t.co/ggUMBJraa3

— Sam Vecenie (@Sam_Vecenie) January 23, 2024

Sometimes the best ability is availability!

100%

"The league is out of whack & I do expect there to be changes in the rules into next season that's tries to bring this back a little bit that gives the defense a little bit of more of their rights back."@WindhorstESPN on the recent offensive explosion.pic.twitter.com/NhmppC7soh

— ClutchPoints (@ClutchPoints) January 29, 2024

haralabob mentioned getting rid of defensive 3 seconds, sort of feel like that would just increase 3pt rate? not sure if that would be a desired outcome

well you could stick yr big man in the middle of the paint and maybe that allows your perimeter defenders to press out more, i wouldnt mind seeing it that thing where guys have to tap their foot out the paint is dumb

It would help defenses a lot imo. It’s one less thing to “worry about” when you’re out there

i dont mind getting rid of defensive 3, thats the fiba rule already right?

i would also add that extending the 3 pt line/getting rid of the corner 3 would rule, it would make the long bombers even more valuable and discourage the average 3 poit shooters of the league to mix it up and other shots bc the risk calculation will shift (either that or people will just practice more long 3s and get good again)

i dont think they should get rid of the corner three but i do think they should widen the court and extend the three point line so its not short in the corner

i think widening the court there would just make that shot (already one of the hardest to defend) even harder to close out on

i think getting rid of defensive 3 seconds would need to be tested out for a while somewhere like Ignite, G league, summer league and preseason games before I'd feel good about making it official

yeah having the g league as a testing ground for this stuff is nice

only a matter of time now until we see the absurdity of some half injured star playing 20 minutes in a scheduled loss, cherry picking the whole time

continue to feel like there are no victims here and the players have only their union to blame

for example, hali is going to be generationally rich and the pacers are going to save some money to spend on other players. whos the loser here?

they should give me the extra money just an idea

hali could still easily make the cut fwiw, he can miss four more games

it would be good for indy if he didnt make it tho

right I mean who’s rooting for him? his wife? he’ll get the recognition eventually, who cares. jamal murray is probably going to end up being ineligible for all-NBA too, which is best for everyone involved except his agent

certain guys might have to take out a payment plan on their seventh house or whatever I guess

couple good games marred by absence tonight jokic out vs okc and luka and kyrie out vs wolves