2022/23 NBA REGULAR SEASON THREAD "TANKING FOR WEMBANYAMA"

there are really almost no teams with the combination of positional need and sufficient stupidity. would the bulls be that dumb? otherwise yeah it’s stay in dallas or i guess bron summons him to la

feel like these guys somehow end up on the wizards for two years before getting bought out

I’d love to fire up the ol arg with Jordan about how Dallas is a poorly run franchise and the hawks have a better future but currently a 30 yr old son of our owner is chilling with his buds, secretly running the team.

Snyder’s got a pretty great lineup to work with so we’ll see. Trust no one

― Heez, Monday, April 3, 2023 3:03 PM (yesterday)

i was optimistic about the state of the mavs franchise last summe because the porzingis trade went so well for them. but i hated their offseason and i didn't like the kyrie trade at all. so i don't feel great about their future going forward. i'd still bet on them being better over the next 5 years than atlanta because of the historical precedent and because of luka.

but no doubt they fundamentally misunderstood their team this offseason in a way that is alarming. i honestly don't even think the grave sin was letting brunson walk, it was ***not even attempting to replace him***. i don't think people talk about this nearly enough. the mavs not only bungled the brunson contract and let him walk they also were like, yeah we don't even need to replace the guy let's go get christian wood and javale mcgee. i thought they had a clear identity coming out of the playoffs and if they had taken some of the assets they've sent out in deals and used that to acquire another high level scoring guard this summer i think they would be fine right now. it was so obvious watching them last year that what made them dangerous was having 3 guards who could all score off the dribble at a high level bcuz they never had less than 2 on the floor and could really go for high level offense w/ all three on the floor. they weaponized the spacing of going small in a real way. so of course they completely go away from that for whatever reason and never at any point this season have had two high level reliable scoring guards out there w/ luka. trade for kyrie but give up dinwiddie in the process. go figure.

the fact that the mavs hired a sneaker executive to be their GM may have been a really bad idea. certainly wouldn't be a shock on its face. on the other hand, they've still done a good job of developing josh green and jaden hardy this season after developing brunson, DFS, kleber etc. so there still may be something about the organization that works on its own even if the front office is chaotic and poorly run. we'll see how griffin and johnson and whoever else end up developing for the hawks.

the hawks definitely could end up being better than them over the next however many years. their front office structure is concerning as you say but the bey trade was pretty good. i would point out that the hawks are on two straight years of middling 8 seed level seasons where the mavs are only at 1. based on last offseason and where they are after the kyrie trade i don't have much faith in their front office but it's not inconceivable that they make some changes to the roster and are back in the 4-5 discussion next year. it's not like the distance from 11 to 4 in the west is very far. so we'll see. if they're a .500 team again next year it will be one of the biggest stories in the league.

hawks dysfunction is amusing with the owners failson and his friend trae is funny and weird also its a little more mixed they have a good coach and a bunch of guys and while theyre under performing the expectations really shouldnt be through the roof anyway best case theyre a second tier east team, where the mavs are heading directly towards rock bottom which is maybe the most valuable player in the league asking out just nothing is going right scandal plagued clown org run by shark tank guy with nike guy doing the day to day big swing for the fences trade for the most radioactive player in league has crashed and burned worse than the biggest skeptics thought bad coach reverting to form after riding the fumes of an alltime coach for a year guy they let walk lighting it up in another city hard to imagine them fucking up the having luka situation worse

one season after they made the conf finals too! nba is difficult

obvs a lot of problems here but seems like they focused too much on looking for that second star rather than just building a good team, if you have a good team really nail a lot of small to mid moves then youre in a good position to trade for a strong second star rather than the risks they took on the damaged guys zinger and kyrie

of course having a solid front office is prob beyond the mavs org capabilities

they have done well developing players but i suspect that had a lot to do with the alltime coach who no longer works there

well, we'll see how green and hardy develop & if they end up w/ their pick this year how that plays out. the green and hardy developments obv have nothing to do w/ carlisle. this kinda circles back to our OG mavs arguments where ppl for some reason just seem unwilling to grant that the mavs developed a string of undrafted players/second round picks into above average role players at a rate that is far above that of the average team. of course, even that only gets you so far and returns us back to the main issue of missing badly on the big moves meant to take that role player nucleus over the top

I actually think the Hawks have done a really good job in the draft the last few years: okongwu, jalen Johnson, AJ griffin are all very good. Jalen will break out next year

you should follow more nba lol

idk im sure a lot of carlisle people and practices are still with the org will prob take a few years for it all to wash out, and green had a couple years with carlise, but its also prob fine to draw the line when he left who cares, i do think you should just admit defeat with the mavs arent a clown org at this point tho lol xp jordan

the mavs are heading directly towards rock bottom which is maybe the most valuable player in the league asking out just nothing is going right scandal plagued clown org run by shark tank guy with nike guy doing the day to day big swing for the fences trade for the most radioactive player in league has crashed and burned worse than the biggest skeptics thought bad coach reverting to form after riding the fumes of an alltime coach for a year guy they let walk lighting it up in another city hard to imagine them fucking up the having luka situation worse

― lag∞n, Tuesday, April 4, 2023 11:50 AM (thirty-one minutes ago)

i guess i'm just less panicked about most of this stuff than everyone else. harrison & kidd can be fired if it comes to that. the mavs are typically in the playoffs every year, i think ppl are downplaying the possibility that things more or less bounce back to normal here

Trae has been the biggest disappointment this year. Really off from season averages and very TO prone in the 4th. Quinn figuring out how to get Collins involved on a nightly basis would really go a long way. Otherwise they need to just give up on him. I think their ceiling is better than 2nd tier EC but I’m a homer

trae is just too small for todays nba unfortunately, i dont love this development but whatre you gonna do

just being in the playoffs isnt enough when you have a perennial mvp candidate, also this season is a very bad sign falling to the lottery absolutely shouldnt happen xp

the way i would put it is this -- the mavs are a volatile franchise right now & part of volatility means the possibility of extreme outcomes on either end of the spectrum. after carlisle left everyone was predicting doom and then they made it to the west finals, and now they're out of the playoffs & perhaps even worse than the doom that was predicted initially. that's an insane swing & i think there is more of a chance that it wildly pings back in the upward direction bcuz they have one of the best players of all time on their team

the west finals run last year was pretty flukey they were in quality a second round team, not close to contention

lukas whole thing needs to be examined too, being out of shape, playing awful d, doing absolutely nothing off the ball, these are not the habits of someone who wants stay on top, the heliocentric style is a huge trap too which is on him and the org

there was certainly some fluky elements to it, i also think the blueprint they used to get there was very basic and is repeatable even given their current situation. and frankly if they were in the east this would be a moot discussion but given the state of the west i don't think it can be ruled out that they get back there as early as next season & that goes for what... 8 or 9 teams in the conference?

I actually think the Hawks have done a really good job in the draft the last few years: okongwu, jalen Johnson, AJ griffin are all very good. Jalen will break out next year

― Heez, Tuesday, April 4, 2023 12:38 PM (seven minutes ago)bookmarkflaglink

the trae era hawks have this weird thing where they have objectively drafted well -- collins, heurter, okongwu, griffin etc -- except w/ those first two players & prob okongwu too i feel like they left a lot on the table in terms of development. those guys proved themselves to be rotation players very quickly and then never (or haven't) gotten better, w/ the exception of heurter who went to a different team & saw all his stats tick up

it is pretty funny how much luka's career is mirroring trae's now but whereas i have a hard time seeing the path for the hawks to get back to the finals in the next three seasons, i don't feel the same about luka. and that just boils down to the differences between those two players, for me

back to the conference finals, obv

its not impossible that the mavs get back to being a decent to good team but theyve got a lot working against them now theyre pretty fucked up id rate a luka trade demand way ahead of another western conf finals appearance

I judge opposing nba coaches on how well they take advantage of Trae’s size. It’s kind of surprising how many teams do not do this. Also I think ppl really underestimate how good of an offensive player trae is

would just like to point out that the "state of the west" is extremely temporary, it's still the stronger conference and will be going forward imo. besides giannis, embiid, tatum, and maybe jimmy (whose team is going nowhere) all of the top 12-15 players in the league play in the west, the best 2 teams (for now) are probably in the east but seeds 4-11 in the west are considerably stronger than the east, this was an injury heavy year which of course is something you can't completely rule out continuing but my money would be on the west being overall stronger for the forseeable future

that all may be true but i'm not sure how it refutes the notion that there is a logjam of elite teams at the top of the east but not at the top of the west thus leaving the west open to be won by a larger group of teams

I think projecting forward 2-3 years especially the west is going to be completely loaded at the top. nuggets and grizzlies should be set to continue competing for a title through that window. suns depending on how they replace cp3 should still be contending. the thunder have serious juggernaut potential. you obv can't rule out the lakers, clippers, or warriors given their chances in the free agent market. meanwhile in the east the bucks, unless they bring in a major free agent, are likely about to start their downswing. seems at least as likely that the mavs are battling for a play-in spot in the next few years as they are to be contending for a chance to make the finals

its hard to predict too far out in todays wild nba

seems at least as likely that the mavs are battling for a play-in spot in the next few years as they are to be contending for a chance to make the finals

― k3vin k., Tuesday, April 4, 2023 1:11 PM (sixteen minutes ago)

i think this is probably true but pairs w/ the notion that the west is going to be uniquely open to this sorta volatility the next few years

what the nuggets look like in the playoffs will go a long way towards projecting the strength of the west over the next few seasons

it’s going to sound like I’m hedging but the west playoffs this year are probably going to be a bloodbath and I doubt it will portend anything long-term, there are just too many teams in the mid seeds who are actually top 4 seeds in a normal season

Luka Doncic mentioned that Mavs haven't been able to recreate chemistry from last season. How much have they missed Jalen Brunson?

"A lot," Doncic said with a pained smile. "I mean, amazing guy, amazing player, for sure."

— Tim MacMahon (@espn_macmahon) April 4, 2023

lukas whole thing needs to be examined too, being out of shape, playing awful d, doing absolutely nothing off the ball, these are not the habits of someone who wants stay on top, the heliocentric style is a huge trap too which is on him and the org

― lag∞n, Tuesday, April 4, 2023 9:51 AM (thirty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm. he's sill not top tier to me for those reasons. he's also just extremely pouty and mopey, doesn't seem like a player that other stars want to team up with.

hes also got fam stuff going on and whatever else has him down. hopefully he can get past that and find some joy in the game.

Volatility is deeply embedded in the contemporary NBA, which is fine with me. More messy drama never hurts. I wish they'd drop the love affair with online betting parlors, tho. Inviting that kind of potential for corruption and chaos is the wrong kind of messy drama.

yeah its also just socially/vibes bad eg that guy yelling at brad beal over a bet the other day

he's also just extremely pouty and mopey, doesn't seem like a player that other stars want to team up with.

― four square ups... no punches thrown (Spottie), Tuesday, April 4, 2023 1:43 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeh the body language etc is pretty much as bad as youll see from a star player

The Morant situation really stained the season for me. They were supposed to be the fun team

the mavs situation is orders of magnitude worse now than it was a year ago. who is their third best player?

Could be Jason Kidd

lol

the kings are gonna be a 50 win team this year w/ the no 1 offense and no 26 defense by rating. w/ some slight changes to the supporting cast or just some better shooting i could pretty easily see next year's mavs putting together a similar combo. i wouldn't expect 50 wins but again i think the formula for them to get back into the 4-6 range is not very far fetched. it doesn't solve the larger longer term issues but still

the kings have good players, a good coach and good vibes... but theyve also gotten at least 70 games from all their main rotation dudes.

yeah the kings have had a really nice season but it sort of seems like they've already hit their ceiling

being bad at defense while having the very best offense just doesnt seem like a great way to do things imho

Kings have a lot of players who can go off, Mavs seem like they're gonna look for Luka to do insane things every night. like the thing with the Bucks is you don't need a crazy game from Giannis to win, and it seems the guys on the Mavs who could have big nights here and there all got traded away

xp it's definitely not a recipe for playoff success. i'm just saying that for as much talk as there is/is gonna be about the mavs being in a ditch, the path for them getting back into the thick of the west playoffs next season is not very complicated

they just need to add an all star and like 4 solid rotation players lol. if kyrie walks for nothing they are really screwed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/DAL.html
rumors swirling in mavs land that they ddint play wood all season so they can sign him to a cheap contract and while that sounds like nonsense, it also sounds like something the mavs would do lol

xp it's definitely not a recipe for playoff success. i'm just saying that for as much talk as there is/is gonna be about the mavs being in a ditch, the path for them getting back into the thick of the west playoffs next season is not very complicated

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, April 4, 2023 5:46 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

we are going in circles, but the point I was trying to make is that the kings being a 3 seed is an aberration and not exactly a recipe you want to follow. it is not a given that the suns best role player holds out, wiggins’ dad dies again, ja gets suspended, lebron/kawhi/AD all play half the season and zion missing the whole season (ok maybe those last ones are in play)… we’re looking at the western conference getting considerably stronger next season, so simply retooling around luka and whatever is left is not going to be a great bet to be competitive next year