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still #2 on that team tho

kinda doubt his ability to function as a #1 option deep into the offs

well, kyrie’s reputation as a basketball god is really built on the fact that he’s one of the best ball handlers of all time and is just extremely gifted at scoring in a variety of ways despite being tiny. he’s also one of the most creative finishers at the rim i’ve ever seen, again owing to his size. i don’t think it has anything to do with what he did in the finals, allen iverson won one finals game ever and is revered for being a tiny baller in much the same way (kyrie is a better player tho). kyrie is like the apex and 1 style player, breaking you down with magician level handles and spinning the ball off the glass like a wizard, but he can also take a similarly sized player into the post and hit the MJ/kobe style turnaround fadeaway that an entire generation of ballers was indoctrinated into thinking was the purest form of basketball

at the end of the day i think this is the kind of stuff that other players really respect. it’s the antithesis of, say, giannis, who got dissed by harden for being so freakishly athletic that he only needs a bare minimum of skill to be dominant. or to take it to its logical extreme, rudy gobert who has literally zero offensive skill and is widely disrespected by his peers despite being one of the best defensive players of all time. i think even w/ steph his peers saw his long range shooting as a kind of cheat code & it took him some time to really gain that respect, whereas when other players close their eyes and think of what would be the dopest thing to do on a basketball court, it’s basically the one on one genius and pure basketball skill of kyrie (for better or worse)

i think it’s true that he isn’t a number one option to carry you through the playoffs but i think that’s kinda true for like any guy that size. when was the last time a PG just carried his team to the title? pistons era isiah thomas or something? steph was a mold breaker in that way to some degree except he was so bad in the one finals that igoudala won MVP, then blew a 3-1 lead to a superhuman giant wing player, and then needed KD to help take his team over the line to dynasty status. chris paul needed harden to even get close to the finals & then needed booker and a whole great team around him to actually get there. so i don’t really hold it against kyrie, he def needs a bigger sized star next to him to really take a team to that level but so does almost any small guy

to his credit is also a team cancer whos always injured and has never bothered to even try to learn how to play d

and fwiw steph played plenty well to win finals mvp giving to iggy was just one of those dumb awards things

i mean is 26-5-6 44/40/77 really bad lol

i think its fair to say that steph lead his team to the finals and kyrie really shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath

he has a really unique combination of caring and not caring. like it's impossible to be that skilled without being dedicated to the craft of basketball, but then it's really hard for me to imagine so dedicated that is also so indifferent to actually showing up and playing.

idk i remember thinking at the time that iggy really did deserve it. in any event if you wanna throw steph in the category of PGs that took their teams to titles i'm cool w/ that, i love steph, but it says more about steph's historical greatness than it does about kyrie (or cp3, or dame, or jason kidd etc) having some fatal flaw to their games aside from being short

iggy did a great job defending bron but also with kyrie and love out bron had an insanely high load, the award was also just a narrative where the series shifted when the dubs changed their lineup, silly stuff

kyrie (or cp3, or dame, or jason kidd etc) having some fatal flaw to their games aside from being short

― J0rdan S., Wednesday, March 9, 2022 1:39 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk if any of those guys were really comparable but id put both dame and cp3 in the definitely couldve been the best player on a champ team category, tho cp3 prob couldnt have been the top scorer, kidd is more borderline tho hes also not small he was a beast, none of those guys are really small the way kyrie is tbf, steph is closer tho hes still stronger and bigger than kyrie

i mean kevin johnson idk but he had a big athletic edge over kyrie

i've been thinking about it recently and honestly i just don't really dislike kyrie. like he's clearly a massive weirdo which i guess is the major crime against him. but his resume as a cancer is like... ok he forced his way out of cleveland bcuz he didn't wanna be stuck there after lebron left, which is totally defensible, lebron had 1.75 feet out of the door and everyone knew it. then he bitched his way out of boston & i get why that irks ppl especially celtics fans but in the recent history of NBA sabotages it ranks pretty low when you think about what kawhi did to the spurs, harden on two teams, ben simmons, anthony davis etc. kyrie is not even sniffing the medal stand. then he skipped the bubble, which he wasn't alone in doing, and the next year took two weeks off for mental health reasons, which in the grand scheme of things... whatever. and then this year w/ the vaccine thing, i don't personally find it offensive that he banned himself over not getting vaccinated, i don't think it was "dangerous" and he doesn't play for my team so it's no skin off my back. i think if i had to work w/ him i would prob dislike him but i don't. he's an enigmatic weirdo genius basketball player and i kinda just love watching him play, even if i'm rooting against his team which i basically always am. this is my truth

(note im posting this before reading all the replies since jordans post)

"i don’t think it has anything to do with what he did in the finals,"

i think this a HUGE part of it... winning that ring in that fashion puts him in a different class and adds him to conversations reserved for champs only. iverson was as much about style and attitude as anything he did on the court.

i agree with everything else you said tho i was mainly joking about the and 1 stuff. he's clearly incredible and def the platonic ideal of a scoring guard.

"except he was so bad in the one finals that igoudala won MVP,"

this is a false narrative that reaaaaally needs to die. having one bad game doesnt equal a bad finals! he averaged 26-5-6-2 on 44/39/88 splits in what world is that not the finals mvp or at least not finals mvp worthy?

"when was the last time a PG just carried his team to the title?"

when was the last time any single player at all did this? wade in 06, dirk in 11? lebron cant do it alone. kd couldnt. giannis needs all star teammates.

lagon otmfm

lol jordan not sure how you can read what you wrote and say his reputation as a team cancer isnt well deserved, theres literally an incident at every stop, he drove a mvp winner out in this season alone, he didnt just take some time off last year he was awol the team had no idea what he was doing

he had a press conference where he said he didnt care about the nba lmao

lebron got more votes than curry in 2015 which is just flat out ridiculous, how is anyone on the losing team even an option to vote for?

he averaged 36/13/9/1 on 40/31/68 splits btw

bron put up huge numbers but ultimately he had to do too much so shot pretty poorly and lost lol

lol jordan not sure how you can read what you wrote and say his reputation as a team cancer isnt well deserved, theres literally an incident at every stop, he drove a mvp winner out in this season alone, he didnt just take some time off last year he was awol the team had no idea what he was doing

― lag∞n, Wednesday, March 9, 2022 12:01 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

hah he seriously just poof disappeared last season forgot about that. nash has probably shaved like 3 years off his life coaching kyrie harden and kd lol

lol poor steve he deserves to coach a team of nice normal guys who play hard and like basketball, on the other hand no one forced him to take the job

remember kyrie’s Instagram live stuff from like… 3 months ago

the best part of kyrie going underground was when a relative posted a video of him chilling at some family birthday party, he was out there doing normal stuff, forgot to call in i guess

probably coulda had the job monty has now xp

remember kyrie’s Instagram live stuff from like… 3 months ago

― Clay, Wednesday, March 9, 2022 2:25 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao check this shit out what a bitch

“My lowest moments came from trying too hard
To impress some people that couldn't care if I'm on
Therefore from here on out, my hair grow out
I care nothin' bout opinions” @JColeNC

— A11Even (@KyrieIrving) March 6, 2022

Jayson Tatum over his last 20 games:

30.1 PPG
7.4 RPG
5.0 APG
49.8% FG
39.2% 3PT
87.3% FT

Celtics 17-3 🤯 pic.twitter.com/qN8xLyiBtD

— NBACentral (@TheNBACentral) March 10, 2022

Nikola Jokic in his last 4 games:

38.7 points
15.0 rebounds
10.3 assists
2.3 blocks
1.3 steals
.706 eFG%
.740 TS%

Just insane.#Nuggets #MileHighBasketball pic.twitter.com/WwMr6Vfkfz

— Joel Rush (@JoelRushNBA) March 10, 2022

nba has seen some sweet heaters this season, add in embiid, derozan, giannis, luka, ja all have had them too.

another one under the radar right now is de'aron fox, been ballin since the trade. Shae had one going until last night too. NBA is full of good players rn love to see it.

dece nums

will say for those who are not close celtics watchers its not just a matter of tatum being hot but his game has really evolved hes playing much more in the team concept making quick reads hardly ever pounding the ball, very cool to see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzU68GYOAY

he does go into hero mode towards the end of the video but he was on one and could not miss, and even his iso stuff is so much crisper and purposeful now

also btw

Al Horford now leads the league in defensive impact per 100 possessions, per our D-LEBRON metric!

2-5 are Draymond, Gobert, Turner, and Covington.https://t.co/pL4CtvkPUL https://t.co/vOQzF7ffiR

— BBall Index (@The_BBall_Index) March 10, 2022

eye tests backs this up too imho, not that hes been the best defender in the world but that hes been really good

no shots at you or al horford but "defensive impact per 100 possessions" lol lord help us. i need to post this link now

https://defector.com/this-stupid-basketball-cliche-impacts-puking-out-my-fucking-breakfast/

wow that is a very... impactful blog

it’s the antithesis of, say, giannis, who got dissed by harden for being so freakishly athletic that he only needs a bare minimum of skill to be dominant.

okay I gotta push back on this some, NBA history is littered with freakishly athletic guys who just couldn't develop the technique or court vision or b-ball smarts to make it - a lot of them wound up on the Bucks, hell Giannis's brother is arguably one of those guys. yes Giannis has a big advantage in that he can literally just dunk over anyone's head but his game had to develop into so much more than that - the series they lost vs. Boston where Horford shut him down shows why he needed much more than a "bare minimum of skill". he's worked hard on his shooting and passing, he can no-look the open man like LeBron and is arguably the top defensive player in the league as well. anyway not implying you agree with Harden's criticism but I always found it obnoxious, especially since it was coming from a guy whose edge comes from being really good at drawing bullshit fouls and grinding the game to a halt. anyway just one Bucks fan's opinion

yeah its silly like people saying shaq had no game

if having giannis body was automatic nba stardom he prob would gone higher than 15

i dont think youll find anyone on ilh that agrees with harden on that front xxp. jordan was just explaining how other players perceive other players or talk about them

wiggins looking like he wants to retire after reaching his pinnacle of becoming an all star

Lowest FT% by an All-Star post All-Star break:

25.0%: Andrew Wiggins*
33.7%: Ben Wallace (05-06)
36.4%: Andre Drummond (15-16)
39.6%:Wilt Chamberlain (67-68)
40.8%: Shaquille O’Neal (06-07)

Rough. 🤯 pic.twitter.com/y4PkX49Xjz

— Legion Hoops (@LegionHoops) March 11, 2022

25% from the line really does not seem possible in any way

tbf its only 16 shots

Andrew Wiggins' free-throw shooting in...
-November: .......... 73.5%
-December: .......... 64.0%
-January: .............. 60.0%
-February: ............ 41.2%
-So far in March: ... 22.2%

— Tim Kawakami (@timkawakami) March 11, 2022

ok thats weird

someone swiped his special FT juice

He'll be shooting 0% in April

i dont think youll find anyone on ilh that agrees with harden on that front xxp. jordan was just explaining how other players perceive other players or talk about them

― jammin on the dud (Spottie), Thursday, March 10, 2022 2:03 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

yeah I know Jordan, who is a smart NBA guy, does not feel that way, but I'm curious if anyone but Harden thinks that. iirc he said that immediately after losing to the Bucks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z4U0M7VpVQ

cade highlights from last night putting up a 27-8-6

coming into the draft his shooting was supposed to give him a high floor but he started out the season shooting really poorly. it’s starting to normalize a bit now and if teams have to respect his three he’s gonna carve defenses up. he almost has a luka-ish energy in the speed at which he plays but with less annoying tendencies. putting up 23-8-6 on 44/36/90 splits in the month of march & you have to feel like those shooting numbers are only gonna get better.

yeah i was getting strong luka vibes, hes nimble where luka is physical but has that same quality of playing at his own pace and controlling the game by making good reads

season leader in PPG right now is....LeBron James

*lebron james kid voice* lebron james

"but I'm curious if anyone but Harden thinks that."

It's easier to be successful at basketball if you're taller. Shaq didn't have to be as skilled as Iverson needed to be. Yet it's impossible to be a great NBA player if all you have going for you is height. Shaq had skills. Just not as many/not as well developed as Iverson. 15% or whatever of 7 footers make it to the NBA n all.