2021-22 NBA "REGULAR" SEASON THREAD

again, totally reasonable to look at both players and think jokic is the mvp. it’s also totally reasonable to look at both players and think that two time MVP, reigning finals MVP, and best player in the NBA giannis is the MVP. yet only one side wants to say there is no discussion to be had

advanced stats are wonderful. the ppl who created them and whose livelihoods are based on them will readily tell you they exist to be parts of the conversation and not the ends of them. it’s also well known that all publicly available advanced defensive stats are dubious at best which is a convenient factor in the debate between two players in which one is universally agreed upon to be a much better defensive player.

anyway, as our very own stephen a smith makes his narrative contrarian MVP case, jokic is dominating on the road vs the full strength world champions

the thing about advanced stats in basketball is that they often disagree. this year however…

anyway like I was saying before, I’m not trying to take anything away from giannis — I’m a big fan and he’s having a great year. he should be recognized for that somehow that isn’t dishonest about who the best player actually is

anyway now that the nuggets are up 22 on the road vs the world champs I expect this coversation to slow down a bit

Something is not right with the Bucks right now

I sort of see advocacy for anyone other than jokic as analogous to someone advocating against the covid vaccine. like clearly they have their own internal thought process that makes sense to them, so it’s challenging to reason with that. but it’s clearly an insane position.

Jokic has 18-9-15-3-1 in 28 minutes against the defending champs

that’s good, but did you know that giannis is widely considered to be a better defender

was listening to windhorst's pod earlier and he dropped this and immediately moved on: "the most underplayed story in the nba today is the relationship between donovan mitchell and rudy gobert"

Yeah I’m learning lots of things ITT. Apparently the East is the “harder conference” or something

giannis has 6 more points than jokic btw. you need points to win iirc

Yeah I’m learning lots of things ITT. Apparently the East is the “harder conference” or something

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, January 30, 2022 8:49 PM (thirty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is so funny. based on like the first 20 games of the year or something as far as I can tell

bradley beal was actually the MVP last year because he had the most points

it’s impossible to argue against this

yeesh, i didnt know jordan was an antivaxxer

it’s too bad that jokic isn’t going to play in the 4th quarter — his team being up by 25 — because giannis is going to end the game with more points, which is actually the most important stat

to really break the game down to its primal state and understand it fully one must first recognize that the first team to score wins

100% support moving hoops into a sudden death format

only if u legalize fouls tho

giannis, who averages 1.5 more points per game than jokic, is the real mvp

like a bear in hibernation, nuggets fans should reserve the feeling of beating one of the best teams in the NBA in january for when june comes around and such experiences are no longer accessible

yes. personally when I vote for the most valuable player in the 2022 regular season, I draw upon my recollections of the 2021 playoffs and my speculations about the upcoming playoffs

tbh kevin and matt arguing something this strongly just makes me feel its more likely to be wrong

anyway I know jordan is watching football tonight. jokic won this matchup against all odds. something to consider!

i agree w the nuggs fans, jokic is dragging this team to the playoffs missing their 2nd and 3rd best guys.

MVP consideration aside, the nuggets are 1.5 games out of 4th place in the west. which I’m sure has nothing to do with their best player

the thing is it’s super easy to say the best player in the league plays on a team/in a league where winning the title is not reasonable to expect, sort of like lebron a decade or so ago. but for some reason some folks want to create a more straightforward narrative. I can’t explain it tbh

Idk why Jordan cares about giannis vs Jokic because they’re both players his favorite GM will never draft

it’s crazy the nuggets have been able to pull off the fifth seed in the west without multiple time all stars and routine all NBA selections jamal murray and michael porter jr. as kevin once told us, they make up one of the NBA’s renowned “big three”s, so it’s a loss that’s almost impossible to quantify, not just for the great fans of denver but for the league as a whole

the thing is there’s no reason to have all this disagreement…we can all just say jokic is the best player and the rest of his team sucks, but instead there HAS to be this debate over MVP that just completely disregards reality and stats and those sorts of things

honestly maybe certain ILH posters would prefer the award be renamed “best player on a team with a reasonable chance to win the finals”???

in that case giannis would be a super reasonable pick

most valuable player in the NBA works just fine

though as I understand there’s a big football game on now. we can talk about this after?

like I know there’s bigger things going on than actually watching the games

Idk why Jordan cares about giannis vs Jokic because they’re both players his favorite GM will never draft

i'm of the opinion that the near certainty that the nuggets become one of the eight worst teams in the NBA without jokic and a legit (if somewhat fever dream) contender to win the West with him makes a spectacular argument for nikola being a 2-time MVP but maybe my brain isn't galaxy enough

honestly can’t imagine being a late 2000s lebron stan arguing against 2022 jokic winning MVP based on team performance or whatever

seems contradictory and such

feel like some folks see playoff outcomes as exculpatory despite years, decades even, experience to the contrary…interesting

like I said no one is harmed just by admitting jokic is the best player and he plays on a flawed depleted team. just an extremely silly conversation with folks with some ulterior motivations

actually the lebron stan argument would be for the best player in basketball regardless of who might be having the “best season” — so in this case the argument would be for giannis, KD, maybe even embiid, players like this. the problem with lebron post-miami is he openly played at 75% capacity every season and thus relinquished his MVPs. the jokic case is more like the russell westbrook, james harden stan argument

right I mean…perhaps you haven’t watched much basketball recently. again I know it’s a big time in the football world…. but there’s one guy whos been playing better than anyone else and it’s jokic

again this is just a very silly conversation. the jokic boosters don’t really need to dig to find reasons to support their position — literally every stat that exists, in addition to the eye tests, suggests that jokic is the best player. it’s vague first take-ish opinions feebly brought forth (such as those itt) that have the burden of proof:…..

i don't really care about mvp too much but this is funny in that the coming media narrative is actually going to be jokic vs embiid, not giannis

meanwhile, chris paul has a 19/7/17 statline with 6.30 to go in the 4th

whose eyes are taking that eye test?

again if you see yourself as a voter with the knowledge of a stephen a smith or whatever, I can see how this is a tough choice