nba playoffs aka the 'offs (which includes the 'ins) 2021

be 30 games under .500 for three years, get a bunch of picks, trade trae young for luka doncic, make the playoffs one time getting the fifth seed in the east: this good

acquire luka doncic, make the playoffs twice, be one of the 5 best teams in the western conference: actually, this is bad

they did one good thing, get luka

what other personnel moves in say the last ten years can we point to

when trying to figure out if they have the competence to assemble a championship team its prob best to look at all the moves

and theres just not a lot great there, their three biggest moves besides luka are prob trading for zinger, maxing out barnes, and drafting dsj

havent looked into where all their draft picks went but i suspect its not great

ok i just perused this list and i'm coming around to lagoon's side here...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/nelsodo99x.html

again - developing seth curry, kleber, being patient with dwight powell till he turned into something, rejuvenating hardaway. these are net positives for their record. they just don't move the needle a ton. luckily for them it doesn't matter all that much with luka

should add finney-smith to the patience/development column (and the doesn't move the needle a ton column)

those are also coaching things more than personel

In a draft-night swap, Olynyk was selected by the Dallas Mavericks with the 13th overall pick in the 2013 NBA draft and then traded to the Boston Celtics for the rights to Lucas Nogueira and two future second round picks.

one pick before giannis fwiw, not going to kill the mavs for that tho obvs any team who wanted him couldve had him, just a classic nba footnote

2 picks before. don't disrespect shabazz muhammad!

lol sorry shabazz!

damn it got tasty in here

jordan i can’t help - and this is all love - mentally adding “things of that nature” to the end of all your posts itt

stephen a smith is an oratorical god so i’ll accept that compliment

lol

the idea that the mavs have made no good moves... developing undrafted players into above average players, positive playoff contributors is actually the sign of a healthy franchise. disconnecting this from
the front office as if rick carlisle is some singular god who conjures good play out of bad players... we know this is false. it takes many ppl across an organization to turn undrafted & marginal talent into production and it’s the hallmark of many of the agreed upon best run franchises in the NBA from san antonio to miami to toronto. the argument that this is a blight on the mavs is ridiculous.

even the porzingis trade... he isn’t gonna be the second all star and the contract may prove onerous to them tho they’re two years from it being an expiring. but they traded a bad player (dennis smith) and two decent but not great picks (one which was used on kevin knox) for a player (porzingis) who is nonetheless useful and another player (tim hardaway jr) who has been the second best and most consistent player on back to back playoff teams and who has just shred the clippers in two playoff wins.

and oh yeah they traded up to pick luka doncic

you have to at least try to separate out coaching from personnel otherwise you cant talk about them, and i dont think its unreasonable to credit coaching to things that are well generally coaching, especially when the front office performance has otherwise been not great, i mean sure it could be that the front office is great at identifying undervalued role players and bad at the other stuff, and the zinger trade was obvs very bad i mean they maxed him out and that was always part of the plan, maxing out guys who arent worth it is bad, again luka the one good move that fell into their laps

let’s look at the teams who picked in the top 10 of the luka draft

suns — in the playoffs, have made a series of great moves. also had devin booker for 5 years and never made the playoffs leading to their front office being canned

kings — one of the worst franchises in the NBA. actual incompetence.

memphis — nice roster, made some good picks, not nearly as good as dallas

hawks — made some nice moves finally made the playoffs after three seasons 30 games under .500

magic — franchise that made the finals 10 years ago and has never recovered, can’t turn high picks or marginal talent into anything of substance

bulls — got rid of a star player and have not recovers despite a series of high picks and playing in the weaker conference

cavs — some of the best draft pick luck in history and have been one of the three worst franchises in the NBA whenever lebron is on another team

knicks — reputation of organizational incompetence precedes itself

sixers — no 1 seed in the east only after the deepest tank job in the NBA and firing their front office for being incompetent

so we have 4 playoff teams, two of which (suns and sixers) are better than dallas this year but had to be bottom of the basement bad for several years and go thru total front office turnover at least once to get there. and then you have 5 teams that actually demonstrate front office incompetence. the mavs, if anything, are ahead of schedule with luka.

yeah i mean the teams who pick at the top of the draft are usually bad??

i do like memphis tho, if ja can learn to shoot they are on the correct trajectory for contention

what are the mavs gonna do about tim hardaway

the hawks front office basically reset the entire team when they got trae. they've made a lot of competent moves in free agency, the draft and through trades. i just don't see dallas doing anything other than surrounding luka with a bunch of sub par vets (who do better than usual).

grizz are pretty well positioned for the next era of the west, are also a well run franchise getting production out of low first round, second round and undrafted players giving them a quick turnaround back to relevance after a sustained run of success in a small market which is very difficult. but also they demonstrate how important it is to have a luka level star on your team, memphis prob still needs more tho maybe ja gets there it’s not out of the question.

jjj development is the key to that team imo

and also things like how much will they spend on retaining d brooks

jjj is really good, brooks is looking extremely solid and feisty, i mean theyll def need to make more moves but theyve pretty much nailed it so far

luka is better than ja but i like where memphis is at as a team/org more, but having luka and being a bigger market gives dallas a lot more room for error, memphis pretty much has to make all the right calls and have things go their way too

maybe dallas can get donovan mitchell who knows

the hawks will also mostly be locked into their team very soon once they give all their young guys money so they better be good. i mean they can still make trades and stuff and if their front office really is good it will be fine but the bill on those young guys is going to arrive. the mavs will have a good deal of financial flexibility even after they pay luka, especially post-zinger, will be in a desirable warm weather market and will have a top 2-3 player in the league to attract talent. the idea that they’re at some dead end is ridiculous

i agree that dallas is closer than any team by default of having luka. they really just need to make a good move or two. not sure how much of a fear they should have of luka bolting to a big market.

no one said it was a dead end lol just that the front office might not be likely to make the right moves, i mean clearing cap space then getting the right guys isnt easy, even just clearing cap space is tricky you can lose too much talent then the right guys dont want to go there, then your main guy doesnt want to be there anymore

you guys are severely underrating luka in this discussion about rosters and future. if you were running the mavs and the grizzlies offered you ja, JJJ, dillon brooks, saadiq bey, grayson allen... whatever for luka. you’re saying yes??

what would the hawks have to give up to re-do the luka trade. honestly. yes they have nice young players. would you trade luka for trae young, kevin huerter, deandre hunter and cam reddish? bcuz i wouldn’t.

everyone in this thread has repeatedly said luka is the best player in the conversation called him a perennial mvp candidate and so forth, spottie saying he wasnt that far from trae is the only possible offense lol

i mean if the teams ahead of the mavs hadnt had their heads up their asses the mavs would prob be totally fucked right now, instead of just needing to pull off building around a historically great young player

everyone in this thread has repeatedly said luka is the best player in the conversation called him a perennial mvp candidate and so forth, spottie saying he wasnt that far from trae is the only possible offense lol

do we assume that Luka would have been just as good had he stayed on the Hawks? idk to what degree the sports are similar but one thing you see a lot in baseball is a player just needing the right coach/organization

yeah in a vacuum id take luka over the memphis guys... except i dont like the dallas front office lol xp, might still take luka tho tbh its a stars league as they say

i will say there is def a chance that trae ascends to mvp level, but i mean luka is already there

also ja could get there tooooo

xp the mavs have shown no evidence that they will capitalize on that promise

other than retaining a good coach

i feel like we are all going insane saying the same things over and over but lukas in his third year and i dont think theres anyone on the team that you can say is a foundational piece to run with him, or even a possibility to be that really, zinger was supposed to be...

be 30 games under .500 for three years, get a bunch of picks, trade trae young for luka doncic, make the playoffs one time getting the fifth seed in the east: this good

acquire luka doncic, make the playoffs twice, be one of the 5 best teams in the western conference: actually, this is bad

yessss let's merge the arguments

lmao lets do this

i will say there is def a chance that trae ascends to mvp level, but i mean luka is already there

yeah i wouldnt bet on it but also its not totally impossible is how i break it down

for instance nash and steph two not dissimilar players to trae were no where near the mvp convo at his age

but they also were like 50-40-90 guys from the start. trae doesnt shoot well for a supposed 'shooter'. needs to get way better there. (luka does too)