NBA State of Play – Rule Changes – Trends – CBA – Schedule Reform – Load Mgmt – etc

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28145944/sources-nba-considering-reseeding-conference-finalists-postseason-play-in

all for conferenceless playoffs but the in season tourney just seems like a novelty to distract from the fact that individual regular season games dont matter, they shd fix that fundamental problem

yeah not in favor of the tournament thing

the most important reason to go to the single 2-pt foul shot is to eliminate the lamest part of the game, which is the dead time between free throws and the high fives. very against the high fives

the high fives suck

nfl teams play 16 games a year and make way more money than the nba, the march madness tv contract is bigger than the entire nba contract, nba shd think about these things

scarcity creates ~value~ heads up

The NFL plays as many games as they can without the average career length being 2 years

yeah I'm not sure the two are really comparable

after reading more about the proposal I think I hate everything about it

it's really telling that their brilliant ideas actually result in a scenario where some teams might play *more* than 82 games.

there's not much to say about the in-season tournament idea other than it's a really stupid idea that no one will care about. bill simmons couldn't have even thought of this

the play-in games basically risk a 10 seed potentially advancing over a 7 seed with something like 10 more regular season wins, which makes me wonder what the point of the regular season is. it could encourage resting. and then you could have a 9 or 10 seed playing a 1 seed and making the first round even worse

the reseeding is a good idea but they should just do it 1-16

they're just throwing darts because they can't fathom that fewer games is the solution

why does there have to be any solution? I know viewership is down this year but hadn't the league been doing great? have they considered that maybe it's temporary because the warriors suck and 2 of the 5 best players in the league are injured?

not really a ratings guy but i would think that the two LA teams being good would mean the league had higher hopes for this year than what they're currently getting. i thought i heard that local broadcast ratings are down all over the place so it's not just national showcase games. while they're in the current round of tv contracts they will be doing great. problem comes when they need to renew in a couple years if ratings still aren't strong.

regardless of ratings, seems like we're hitting a crest of dissatisfaction with the 82-game schedule. the nba is more or less proposing to shuffle it which makes no sense to me. the midseason tournament is inane, i can't believe they're actually putting it out there.

also "load management" is al over the media, not great press!

xp it’s actually bad that both of the Los Angeles teams are really good because East Coast markets don’t watch West Coast games

Bill Simmons was 1st guy I heard talk about midseason tourney

yeah

wasn't the original simmons plan to do a tourney for the 8th seed?

makes me wonder what the point of the regular season is

i think this about most american sports, tbh

its to enjoy a bit of sport

the nfl regular season is pretty perfect in that its fewer games and fewer teams making the playoff make it function almost on a playoff level

baseball i have no idea what goes on in the head of baseball watchers but having different pitchers on different days breaks up the monotony somewhat i guess

playoffless euro soccer is def the most rigorous system for picking the best team there will be no upsets but its kinda a bummer not having the "playoff atmosphere" they compensate for that by adding excitement w promotion/relegation and seeding for various other tournaments and with singing and rioting

another thing about euro soccer is theres like 9 teams across 5 leagues who have any chance and if youre a fan of a different team u just have to hope a russian oligarch improves yr fortunes

also each country has its own league so the best players dont play each other

baseball i have no idea what goes on in the head of baseball watchers but having different pitchers on different days breaks up the monotony somewhat i guess

it's better as a pre-TV, pre-night games sport. wandering over to the local stadium in your ratty suit and hat to check out your local squadron, the lush grass spread before you, it's a nice way to spend a summer day in the city.

oh going to the game is nice dont get me wrong and tbh i used to be a baseball watcher myself but i dont remember what i was thinking about now

also each country has its own league so the best players dont play each other

― lag∞n, Monday, November 25, 2019 12:06 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

there shd be one eurowide super league w promotion/relegation from the respective country systems

(and plz dont tell me theres already the euroleague i know the difference between a tournament and a league)

wasn't the original simmons plan to do a tourney for the 8th seed?

― call all destroyer, Monday, November 25, 2019 11:48 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah he came up with the bottom seed tourney at the end of the season iirc, never heard of this mid season thing till now

feel like he also talked abt the midseason thing or at least ive heard of it somewhere before

i have now thought a bunch about these proposals and listened to some pros and cons and honestly i don't care for any of them. they don't offer any meaningful progress toward making either the regular season or the first round of the playoffs more competitive.

the play-in for the bottom of the playoffs is....fine. it will make the end of the reg season slightly more interesting and in theory reduce tanking at the top but i do wonder how the incentives will work out over time (e.g. if you're the 10 seed don't you really want to stay in the lottery even if you're playing well down the meaningless stretch at the end of the season?) but the first round 8/1 and 7/2 matchups will still suck and be worthless regardless of the outcome.

reseeding the final four is dumb and a very tactical response to an unfortunate situation from two finals ago. i still like the romance of having to go through a conference rival and seeing those matchups play out over a number of years. also the two teams in the finals have only played each other twice which adds some intrigue. the league needs to take the long view on this.

the tournament--here are the pros i've heard:

- there are ~10 teams right now with no winning tradition that would go all-in to win it
- gradually over time interia will cause people and teams to care
- it opens up the possibility of reducing the number of games even more over time
- what the hell, nothing could be worse than the current regular season

it's telling that they can't even find a good time in the schedule to do it. where they've landed is probably the best bet but it's still really early and a lot of teams are just figuring out how they want to play.

my main thing is that even if you believe that ultimately it will become something that matters, the first couple years are going to be so, so bad. players aren't going to take it seriously. coaches are the most conservative people in the game probably and i doubt any of them are going to want to push their guys hard to win something in early december. i see it being awkward and weird and public perception could just render it d.o.a.

it's also the most roundabout possible way of trying to address lack of interest in the regular season. it doesn't make the non-tournament games matter more. it doesn't address load management. it sure as hell isn't going to make the season *feel* shorter or fix the slog that is march and april. the format is going to be confusing to casuals. the rumor that they're looking to do it at neutral sites is insane.

finally, maybe, just maybe, looking to european soccer with its own longstanding traditions and issues is not the best place to find inspiration to fix engagement in a relatively young american sports league. the reason the play the FA cup is because they've been playing the FA cup for 150 years, and afaik the only cool thing that happens in the FA cup is when a team from one of the lower divisions makes a run--the same thing that happens in the NCAA tournament which is also impossible to replicate in the nba. meanwhile, they conveniently do not look at one of the best features of the premier league which is that each team plays a home and home and every game feels like an event.

both the play-in and the midseason tournament are Really bad ideas imo. its classic fudging the results of a process instead of fixing the process to give better results

having fewer teams make the playoffs seems good but giving a whole round as a bye also seems dicey

mb go back to best of 5 first round with byes for the top 4 teams

i'd love to see them do something closer to the nfl first round. the top 2 teams in each conference have no reason to play a first round series, they're not losing it.

why did they go to 7 games in 1st rnd? was that after nuggs beat the #1 seed in 94??

its was a while after that iirc

it changed in 2003. $$$$$

the problem with first round byes is that’s two weeks off in which teams lose momentum and just get cold

go back to the early 80s playoff system imo - 1st round is best-of-3 and the top 2 in each conf. get byes

to me the current playoff structure is not the problem, or at least not one of the problems that needs to be addressed first

i think the first round is a problem. they play 4 series that are perfunctory.

agree w Spottie but also feel like changing playoffs is easier to accomplish than changes to reg season would be

letting fewer teams into the offs wld increase the intensity of the regular season im thinking

would also give even less teams hope or a shot at even one round of playoff revenue.

The spurs and nuggets went to 7 games last year

The Cavs who made the finals in 2018 won their first round series in a game 7 by 4 points over the pacers.

letting fewer teams into the offs wld increase the intensity of the regular season im thinking

not only this but the shorter the series, the more important home-court is

The spurs and nuggets went to 7 games last year

― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:32 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

The Cavs who made the finals in 2018 won their first round series in a game 7 by 4 points over the pacers.

― de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:34 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i'd happily give these up if we could lose the 1-8 every year.

I do think it’s cool that the NFL has byes

more than half of teams making the offs is too much imo

tanking maximized

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HFent53WIAATVvo?format=png&name=900x900

thats bad

curry late scratch tonight and obv no luka (or reaves or jimmy). jaylen out tonight too.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/48582233/nba-playoffs-2026-foul-3-san-antonio-spurs-portland-trail-blazers-impact

ban this abomination

Creating some kind of specific rule just to ban this seems like it would just push the NBA game further away from the game of basketball, as it is played internationally, or in US colleges, high schools, and everywhere else on the planet -- all in the name of making it more of a "product" instead of a game with consistent rules from the tip off to the final second.

agree it should be banned

banning take fouls and hackas have been nice improvements add this to the pile

every sport has different rules at different levels of the game, partially bcz there's no access to VAR in elementary school soccer games. does the NBA need to also switch to one-and-one free throws because the NCAA does it?

anyway it's an interesting article, and its stats show basically no discrepancy btwn fouling up 3 and playing straight up in the NBA...92% chance of winning up 3 with 18 or less seconds left, either way. But the sample size is small enough that it's probably not a definitive proof that the strategy doesn't work.

i think whether the strategy does or doesn't work is immaterial to the core issue which is that it's inarguably worse entertainment than playing out the ends of games, and for that reason it should be outlawed

This is a natural consequence of the three point shot. The entire hoops world migrated to the three point shot and it has changed all kinds of strategies on both offense and defense. Everyone loves it. This is just a continuation of those changes. Intentional fouls and parades to the ft line have been an accepted game strategy forever. Teams that are behind in the waning seconds use it constantly. Why in this one particular instance, where it is used by the team that is ahead, is it suddenly an "abomination" that must be done away with?

because it's anti-competitive. fouling when you're down is in the service of competition -- it's an attempt to introduce variance, and that can lead to entertaining, unexpected outcomes. fouling when you're up is the opposite -- it is intended to reduce variance, and that leads to expected and less entertaining outcomes.

anti-competitive?? seems to me that the team fouling is trying to win a very close game that hasn't been decided, yet.

leads to... less entertaining outcomes

OK. you can claim it is anti-entertainment. except, ime fans of the team that squeaks out a one-point win by fouling up three with a few seconds left seem pretty happy with that result -- entertained, even. I bet you don't boo Spoelstra and complain when they foul three up and cash in the win. or maybe you do?

fans of the winning team being happy that certain rules allowed their team to win is not a relevant context for how the NBA should be looking at its rules

fans of losing teams appreciate those wins even more, you know

that certain rules allowed their team to win

The team that scores the most points wins. Those are the rules that apply to both teams. But I'd be interested in hearing your idea of what the new rule should look like. I seriously doubt it could result in more entertaining games, unless you narrow the situations where it would apply in very arbitrary ways. It would be especially nasty if it put a special handicap only on the leading team, who obtained their lead fair and square and had every reason to think this should be honored, not penalized.

relegation zone! (there is no actual relegation zone)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/48619907/sources-nba-eyes-new-anti-tanking-proposal-draft-lottery

theyre trying to trick us by using the word we love

its funny that in trying to solve tanking the nba added another byzantine rule set, silvers lawyer league