2017 NBA OFFSEASON

the nuggets are pursuing the banana boat + jokic strategy and it will succeed beyond anyone's wildest dreams

the fact that the sixers have had a bunch of injured and disgruntled players over the course of the process is likely related to the fact that their gm didnt understanding anything about developing players from a basketball and cultural/personal standpoint

lol omg who cares they weren't trying to win

there is an argument to be made that treating the players like pure commodities will scare off some free agents but people were worried about houston in that regard too and the concerns didnt really pan out

were they trying to maximize player value, they just lost noel for nothing

embiid is overweight plays out of control and has a very small chance of ever living up to his talent

teams wld be wise to emulate the spurs lol

well it's not really fair to use individual post-hinkie moves as a referendum on the Process as a whole. and i agree the sixers didn't draft great!

create a system/culture that helps players maximize their potential, part of that is recognizing that theyre human not interchangeable cogs, there are no nba derivatives, youve got to do the work

you can't just "emulate the spurs" what does that even mean

have a perfect coach draft really well convince everyone to take below market value hmmm great ideas!

In the same sense that it is easier to make money if you have money, success breeds success. Tanking turns that truism on its head and makes a virtue of robbing your team of success. High draft picks were always a sort of booby prize, not a rich reward.

create a system/culture that helps players maximize their potential, part of that is recognizing that theyre human not interchangeable cogs, there are no nba derivatives, youve got to do the work

― lag∞n, Sunday, June 18, 2017 3:08 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mean sure, this is step 2. you need to get some assets first before you're suddenly the league's golden franchise

no it works better if you do them at the same time

it seems like youre confusing emulating the spurs process with emulating the spurs results

i mean like why do u think spurs players are constantly willing to take below market contracts

job satisfaction?

faceless min vet X's happiness during the tanking years does not really seem like a relevant metric to evaluate progress on the long term goal, which is to contend a few years down the road. obviously the transition between the tanking phase and the contention phase might have required some lol corporate outreach and it's possible that hinkie wasn't going to be good at that

but what is pretty indisputable is that hinkie sold ownership on a long term plan and ownership ended up getting cold feet. it's not really possible to say whether it was successful yet at this point. if the current core + fultz ends up being really good, which it could, it'll be pretty funny when people are suddenly colangelo fans

in conclusion i am willing to believe it is possible that hinkie was bad at his job but the jury is still out imo

but what is pretty indisputable is that hinkie sold ownership on a long term plan and ownership ended up getting cold feet.

this is can't be disconnected from the fact that hinkie drafted like a crazy person

"let me see out my longterm plan of drafting 5 players that play the same position"

yeah his drafting record was definitely not great

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-paul-george-tells-pacers-plans-leave-franchise-prefers-joining-lakers-191520531.html

well alright

ehhhhh there arent that many cases of the spurs taking less than market on the whole of their career. tony parker signed below market, but it is now riding a contract thats above his market. ginobili signed for like 2.5 mil in 2015 and then signed for $14 mil last year. only one who took a legit haircut is duncan his last few years. spurs reward loyalty. also no state income tax. spurs have gotten some vet min bargains before, but kawhi and lamarcus both signed their deals at the maxx.
xxxxp

philly will prob never be great, if you have ownership that lets itself be sold by such and obvs under qualified grifter youre unlikely to ever put the pieces together

but most of the criticism of him is not of his drafting, it's the process itself

also then firing him and making a totally reactive move to hire the most basketbally basketball guy shows that they dont really have any idea what they want to do

xp to myself

i guess if they found some really good executive and just let them run the show, but usually doesnt work that way

i would love to start a team with fultz and simmons. two very unique, potentially franchise players. i don't like the mix w/ saric and embiid tho.

as weve discussed hinkies insane drafting flows directly from the core process philosophy that players are fungible assets producing the view that drafting a bunch of guys who play the same position is no problem

i tend to agree

i also agree about the sixers owner and what that means for the franchise longterm. some strong vivek vibes there.

hinkie was a package deal and his record was the package. success in the nba is very easy to measure. he didn't meet the minimum qualifications to be considered a success at anything he did, other than the one thing that mattered to him - getting high draft picks he could squander.

also drafting is probably more random luck than most people think, none of hinkie's picks seemed that bad at that time. when your plan is to maximize value drafting guys with an injury risk seems congruent with that plan.

like sam presti was a god for drafting those three guys and now he's seen as pretty average

im not sold on simmons at all, no shooting no defense injured and with attitude problems is not a good place to start, hes def an insane talent in a lot of ways but hes a very weird unbalanced player too on a weird franchise who hasnt successfully developed one of their picks yet

presti is a virtuoso drafter and shit at the other gm things

drafting is probably more random luck than most people think

this. it's why I said high picks are a booby prize.

also drafting is probably more random luck than most people think, none of hinkie's picks seemed that bad at that time. when your plan is to maximize value drafting guys with an injury risk seems congruent with that plan.

he had to pick okafor cuz porzingis wouldn't work out for the team because it was run by a crazy person

very high picks have a pretty good success rate tho, which is why im not stoked on the celtics trading a #1 in a year that has a clear #1 player

also joel embiid fell to the sixers bcuz of injuries and injuries prevent him from ever playing a real NBA season then that's a bad pick

if injuries*

im not stoked on the celtics trading a #1 in a year that has a clear #1 player

otm. such draft years are rare.

or from another pov not being able to get him to lose weight or play the game in a way that makes sense for his body is a failure of development xp

not much to add except there's already a contingent of weak-ass celtics fans quaking abt the sixers "core" of guys who have basically never played nba ball.

if those players were on the celtics id have confidence that theyd turn out good ;-]

criticisms of hinkie's drafting obv otm i will also say the way he churned through random dudes expecting talent to miraculously surface without patience, continuity, and playing time was a true sign that he doesn't really get basketball.

lol ainge abt to trade that #3 for paul george isnt he, confident that hell be able to talk him out of his lifelong dream to play for the lakers, i wish one day to achieve if only for a moment that level of self esteem

tbf he does have a very good argument against the lakers, but still dannys a gambler lol

my nba fanfic

i still maintain that the lakers are gonna panic overpay for PG in a trade

https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/18/15826864/wojnarowski-paul-george-informs-indiana-pacers-will-leave-2018-boston-celtics-free-agency-trade-nba

George is from Southern California and can get a four-year, $130 million deal from the Lakers. Although they will have $15.6 million in cap space next summer per Bobby Marks of The Vertical if they clear their non-guaranteed deals and renounce free agents like Julius Randle, they would be willing to surrender future picks or prospects to get rid of Luol Deng and Timofey Mozgov’s contracts to clear room for George. It would be a difficult task, but most likely feasible.

George is angling for a deal with the Lakers this year, who can offer Julius Randle, Jordan Clarkson and future picks. They would not part with DeAngelo Russell, Brandon Ingram or this year’s pick, as they have enough leverage with George signaling he is heading their in free agency. This means the price drops for Boston as well.

While the Celtics have the assets to overpay for any star, they may not need to in this scenario with most other teams scared to trade for George out of fear that he will make good on his alleged commitment to go to the Lakers. Magic Johnson would max out George without question, so any team trading for George has to sell him on the promise of spending the rest of his career competing for the title. Boston can pull that off if they sign a major free agent this offseason or make another big trade.

If the Celtics are bidding against the Lakers, they may be able to get George on the cheap if the Lakers aren’t putting up a decent offer. They can build a package around one of their high picks, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart. This gives the Pacers a building block pick to replace George, a point guard to replace free agent Jeff Teague, and a swing to replace George in the short term. Compared to the previous price Boston would have paid, this may be a fair compromise. A package like that would have to happen during the offseason and give the Celtics a window to negotiate an extension, formally or informally, like the Cleveland Cavaliers did with Kevin Love when he was traded from Minnesota for Andrew Wiggins. Boston would not commit any significant draft assets without a long-term commitment from George.