2017 NBA OFFSEASON

gotta crack some eggs to make an omelette

Uh that's five years or so of bad eggs

it's 4 years where their chances of being contenders dropped from 5% to 0%

and now look nicely positioned to wait out lebron in the east

the problem w/ the process was not the process but the picks

basically every lottery pick in the 2015 draft aside from mario hezonja has more trade value than okafor right now

even a fully healthy core of fultz-simmons-saric-embiid doesn't make sense

embiid is probably not tradable and they're not gonna move simmons or fultz so i guess the clock is ticking on saric already? the entire thing is a mess honestly

i think i like tatum more than jackson

― lag∞n, Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:10 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark

jackson seems more like what the alleged ainge player has been recently in that he's a great athlete with tons of defensive potential who can't really shoot. him and jaylen brown would be terrors on the wing but tatum is prob more complimentary. personally i hate jackson's shot and would prob take tatum yeah.

it's 4 years where their chances of being contenders dropped from 5% to 0%

― k3vin k., Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:30 AM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

uh basketball teams are businesses that needed to sell tickets and merch and they put an absolutely garbage product out for years, that needs to go on the L side of the column and be accounted for in assessing hinkie.

gonna assume ownership understood this up front

seems like most sixers fans view hinkie pretty fondly. they were chanting "trust the process" at home games last year.

stockholm syndrome

i think the point of the process was communicated to the fans and accepted by them. i have no real issues on that front. i just think "pick a bunch of similar players because we can trade the ones we don't want at some later point" was very faulty logic for several reasons.

they were chanting "trust the process" at home games last year.

But were they chanting it ironically during blowout losses, or approvingly during impressive wins? Or just randomly because they were bored?

it's one thing to say "hey we're rebuilding" and another to say that having one of the worst teams in the history of the nba for years was a good strategy just cos they have some good prospects now. iow if they draft well like gsw or okc or even mil, theyll still get top talent without needing so many top 3 picks and without being an embarrassing non-entity.

it's one thing to say "hey we're rebuilding" and another to say that having one of the worst teams in the history of the nba for years was a good strategy just cos they have some good prospects now. iow if they draft well like gsw or okc or even mil, theyll still get top talent without needing so many top 3 picks and without being an embarrassing non-entity.

― nice cage (m bison), Sunday, June 18, 2017 1:01 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark

steph curry, klay thompson and giannis are historical outliers tho. "draft the best players in the draft outside the top 5" is not really a plan for success.

& with the thunder, "draft three all stars inside the top 3 picks" which is what the sixers were trying to do, and in the seasons before they picked durant, westbrook and harden they were 30, 40, and then 30 games under .500 respectively. what's the difference?

we're talking about the sonics/thunder having won 23 and 20 games and the sixers having won 18 and 19 games

if anyone wants conclusive proof that hinkie's process is the wrong way to go about winning, one has only to look at the spurs. but the spurs's formula isn't really a formula in the sense that one can follow it like a diagram or a flow chart. it requires an organization filled with talented and intelligent people who know more about how to do their jobs than the competition does.

be the spurs isn't a plan!

but there is a lot to be said about the culture cultivated by hinkie. def in the negative column for the process.

be the spurs isn't a plan!

tell that to all the teams that eagerly hire ex-spurs staff

um be the spurs is literally one of the best plans, the spurs are doing an excellent job of following this plan

we're talking about the sonics/thunder having won 23 and 20 games and the sixers having won 18 and 19 games

― J0rdan S., Sunday, June 18, 2017 12:11 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

conveniently leaving out the sixers winning 10 games the following season. and then winning 28 in their best season in 4 years.

the team who has tried to be the spurs is the hawks, and i'd prob rather be a hawks fan than a sixers fan, but the hawks have topped out as a second round playoff team in the bud era and are now sort of at a crossroads so... xp

conveniently leaving out the sixers winning 10 games the following season. and then winning 28 in their best season in 4 years.

― nice cage (m bison), Sunday, June 18, 2017 1:33 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark

well yes one team picked kevin durant, russell wesbtrook, serge ibaka and james harden while the other picked michael carter williams, joel embiid, dario saric and jahlil okafor. which circles back to my thing that the problem w/ the process was not the process but the picks.

but i don't see how winning 74 games in three seasons and getting three top 3 picks in a row is meaningfully different than winning 47 games over three seasons and getting three top 3 picks in a row

it is 9 wins a year different

and if the end result is the same what does that matter

i...dont think we disagree on the main pts lol. i just dont think we should give hinkie credit for intentionally shitting the bed.

but also 9 wins more a season is not nothing!

i'm not giving credit to hinkie for anything other than not pretending

and btw we should note that despite drafting steph curry and klay thompson the warriors embarked on one of the most shameless tanking campaigns in NBA history to draft harrison barnes

hahaha true

seems like most sixers fans view hinkie pretty fondly. they were chanting "trust the process" at home games last year.

― J0rdan S., Sunday, June 18, 2017 12:55 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is the biggest problem w the process, never snitch on yrself, other than that it was a pretty typical rebuilding process, well a rebuilding process that thought players were fungible when theyre not and was run by someone who didnt really understand basketball

seems p clear hinkie did it that was cause he thought it wld protect him but instead it drew unnecessary attention an hes long gone now

thwy currently have zero players who can be reliably forecast to make an allstar game too fwiw

The big thing the Hawks took from the spurs was player development which has served them well given that they're picks have all been around the late teens early 20s

hinkie in the end was just a typical zero social skills quant type who wanted applause for reinventing the wheel and ended up alienating everyone

as with a lot of things on the internet there are some posters itt whose ideology prevents them from evaluating evidence in front of them in an objective way. i don't necessarily like white collar douchebags like hinkie more than anyone else but if your argument is really "just do what the spurs do" i'm just going to assume you're not interested in serious discussion

jordan pretty much otm about everything

as with a lot of things on the internet there are some posters itt whose ideology prevents them from evaluating evidence in front of them in an objective way.

― k3vin k., Sunday, June 18, 2017 2:38 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my eyes rolled all the way around then popped out, im blind now thx a lot

"it didn't work/it hasn't worked yet therefore it was a bad idea" is not a serious argument!

thats a fine point, im srs and objective and youre ideological... is not

tho yes i agree with the highly sophisticated "just be like the spurs and hire the best coach of all time, tank so you can draft one of the 8 best players of all time, then underpay that player for 20 years" strategy, it is pretty foolproof

as with a lot of things on the internet there are some posters itt whose ideology prevents them from evaluating evidence in front of them in an objective way. i don't necessarily like white collar douchebags like hinkie more than anyone else but if your argument is really "just do what the spurs do" i'm just going to assume you're not interested in serious discussion

― k3vin k., Sunday, June 18, 2017 1:38 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

do u read my posts? im not that interested in srs discussion, thats why this board is fun

but hinkie is stinkie

thats a fine point, im srs and objective and youre ideological... is not

― lag∞n, Sunday, June 18, 2017 2:51 PM (twenty-two seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is very clear from numerous discussions over the years that at least part of the anti-Process is just distaste for wall street nerds running basketball. cf also lacob, vivek (tho he is actually bad at his job)

im against teams that spend half a decade trying to be the worst team of all time, thassit

tho yes i agree with the highly sophisticated "just be like the spurs and hire the best coach of all time, tank so you can draft one of the 8 best players of all time, then underpay that player for 20 years" strategy, it is pretty foolproof

― k3vin k., Sunday, June 18, 2017 1:52 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean literally only one team has tried this tho and it worked out well, i would recommend it for your denver nugs

a. i think its fine to hate wall st nerds, b. a lot of what hinkie did poorly seems p closely tied to his wall st nerddom, so in conclusion imo its both ideologically and objectively right to hold that against him

compared to other rebuilds id say hinkie did a pretty bad job at everything except acquiring draft picks, for which he prob had some formula that served him well, whoever said then best lesson to take from the spurs success was to focus on player development was otm, obvs thats not easy to do but basing yr decisions on that priority will prob produce better results than not