THE 2017 NBA 'OFFS™

if steph's game deteriorates quickly for whatever reason you could make a case for cp3 being better simply on longevity, but if his career has a long tail i think his career will be definitively better

fair. guess it also depends how much stock you put into team post-season success.

i think even if you put the team and individual awards success behind, the magnitude of steph's offensive game is > cp3. so you have to a. put a lot of stock in point guard defense and b. cp3's defense above steph's to say that cp3 is >

again this assumes that steph's career plays out fairly normally

chris paul has the highest offensive rating....ever

word. i don't believe he's the best offensive player of all time tho.

just checked that list and it's weird

Gallo above Harden/Curry... Calderon above Curry? Two defensive centers in the top 5, one of which is the worst free throw shooter of all time.

(talking about active players only)

here's the thing about paul -- you can't find a metric or a framework that doesn't love him. (haralabob mentioned something like this in the recent simmons podcast.) every time a new framework comes out, whether it's PER, or win shares, or real plus-minus, every system basically thinks he's not only an elite player but one of the best ever. his stature will probably age well because it seems like whatever the next dominant framework is will recognize his greatness. it seems cliche at this point to say it, but he does things outside the box score that matter a ton. and he's one of the best defenders ever at his position

that said curry obviously is incredibly great and his peak is almost certainly better than paul's peak. throw in a couple more rings and it's going to be hard to deny him a spot ahead of chris. but i just hope people realize when his career is over that paul was one of the 15 or 20 best players ever.

ftr i don't think offensive rating is a great stat (simmons loves it for some reason tho simmons really does not get stats) but the players on the top of that list definitely tend if be great offensive players

dont disagree w that at all xp

guys like gobert, deandre, and tyson chandler perenially being on those ORTG leaderboards always confused me and i used to chalk it up to lineup effects and multicollinearity but when you listen to guys inside the league they all stress how important setting good picks and being a rim-runner are. def feels like those are underappreciated attributes

elite alley oop finishers seem like they'll always inherently be rated highly by efficiency based metrics since they only take shots with like an 80% chance of going in, which i think emphasizes that even advanced metrics are still somewhat limited, since we know that rim running is a helpful skill, we just don't know *how* much... and it's probably not that much. but maybe it is!

yeah they are good players for sure and fine offensive players but like MJ is number 17 on that list...

ORTG doesn't take into account fg% tho, it's just +/- while the player is on offense. which speaks to outside-the-box score stuff in players like those who average 10-12 points a game

but i just hope people realize when his career is over that paul was one of the 15 or 20 best players ever.

this seems to be at the heart of all your CP arguments, fair enough. hopefully you know ILH is smart enough to realize this.

but yeah agreed ORTG has flaws. i think the best current metric is RPM, tho it's not perfect either and needs to be supplemented with other stats and the eye test for sure

but i just hope people realize when his career is over that paul was one of the 15 or 20 best players ever.

this seems to be at the heart of all your CP arguments, fair enough. hopefully you know ILH is smart enough to realize this.

― Spottie, Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:18 PM (thirty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know haha. i am easily trolled about chris

well. i'm not sure i'd say chris paul is one of the best 15 or 20 players ever! i mean maybe. i'd have to look into it. but don't lump me into that.......

yeah i was just thinking generally we all agree he's one of the best to do it. Not sure what number i would put him at this point but he's still got lots of years left.

he's one of the best to ever do it if we're talking about nut punching

and playoff choking. ayooo

>:(

lol tony bennett cant even make it in turkey
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/former-no-1-overall-nba-draft-pick-anthony-bennett-cut-by-turkish-pro-team/

and Strauss's last piece for espn, about curry

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19256296/golden-state-warriors-steph-curry-stopped-only-kevin-durant

i should be studying but i just sent simmons a mailbag question. included:

- Most seasons with a PER of 25 or higher (CP3 tied for 6th): http://bkref.com/tiny/IZDU2
- Most seasons with a WS/48 of 0.225 or better (CP3 tied for 6th, and he and LeBron will probably be 1-2 when it's all over): http://bkref.com/tiny/jf08C
- Most seasons with a box plus-minus of 7.5 or higher (CP3 tied for 3rd): http://bkref.com/tiny/RQZbE

currys top seasons warped the whole dang game but so far theres only been two of those, paul comfortably ahead for now

it was really only last year that curry warped the whole dang game, 14-15 just looked like a normal peak season

last year was utterly insane its true

easily the best season either of them has had

it was like when Randy Moss scored 23 TDs and the pats went 16-0. or when Ichiro swept into MLB and led the Mariners to 116 wins in his rookie season.

ha

funny thing is steph has under performed in the offs and won and cp3 has over performed and lost

mean. so mean.

xp

so pumped for the we believe anniversary showcase tonight
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-16Vo6WsAI6Bsb.jpg

funny thing is steph has under performed in the offs and won and cp3 has over performed and lost

― lag∞n, Tuesday, May 2, 2017 3:04 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

cue kobe on teammates

its a difficult concept lol

love watching john wall play basketball

john wall's peak games are as good anyone in the league

the wizards getting away with playing jason smith at center is interesting

man things get reeeeeeeeeeeeal sketchy for the wiz when wall rests

regardless of outcome this series is v. v. watchable

gonna be hard for the wiz to guard IT in the fourth w/o john wall having superhuman stamina

yes xp

the wizards getting away with playing jason smith at center is interesting

He had some nice spot starts

this has been a great game

that gortat pass just now was insane

the celtics are getting whatever matchup they want for IT every time down

100% chance this final shot is a john wall midrange jumper