waiting for the other shoelace to drop: 2013-2014 NBA regular season thread (part 2)

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the basketball hall of fame is a really stupid entity

le goon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 17 January 2014 05:50 (twelve years ago)

melo's been a top 10ish player for like one year dude

― k3vin k., Friday, January 17, 2014 5:37 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you could bump it down to 15 maybe

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 17 January 2014 05:57 (twelve years ago)

yeah i mean if reggie miller is in the HOF melo probably will be

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 05:58 (twelve years ago)

I mean he's a leading scorer every year. I know that doesn't mean "top player" automatically, but I think "shittiest top player ever" is more apt than "not a top player"

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Friday, 17 January 2014 06:00 (twelve years ago)

statistics are everything in the hall, he's in

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:02 (twelve years ago)

i think lebron's drunk

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 06:02 (twelve years ago)

oh he's just tweeting the lyrics to some crappy TI song nvm

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 06:03 (twelve years ago)

sounds drunk to me

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Friday, 17 January 2014 06:04 (twelve years ago)

actually kinda loved Melo in 08-09 but imo chauncey was the leader of that squad and wrangled the beast. they complemented each other really well, that was Chauncey's last good year and he lead that team. Melo needs that kind of situation I think.

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:05 (twelve years ago)

statistics are everything in the hall, he's in

― Spottie, Friday, January 17, 2014 6:02 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they aren't, actually, or else Artis Gilmore wouldn't have had to wait so long. And he only got in because Colangelo made it happen.

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:06 (twelve years ago)

the greatest hall of fame mystery to me aside from Artis is how the hell K.C. Jones made it in as a player.

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:08 (twelve years ago)

I guess melo is the gary sheffield of basketball

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 06:08 (twelve years ago)

Maybe we could do a ILH HOF. Like with ballots and everything

, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:09 (twelve years ago)

Fair enough xxxp.

Maybe college and coaching re KC Jones?

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:10 (twelve years ago)

oh melo has that ncaa title too doesn't he, that makes him a sure thing i guess

Clay, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:13 (twelve years ago)

he'd make the one-on-one HOF in a heartbeat

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Friday, 17 January 2014 06:18 (twelve years ago)

Maybe college and coaching re KC Jones?

― Spottie, Friday, January 17, 2014 6:10 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if it was for coaching Nellie and PJax would have made it in as players too (and Nellie was a much better NBA player than Jones).

It's pretty much inexplicable afaict.

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:20 (twelve years ago)

yeah just looking at his stats, crazy weak

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:22 (twelve years ago)

Melo also w two gold medals and may play again in '16

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:27 (twelve years ago)

oh yeah and he rules in the olympics too

Clay, Friday, 17 January 2014 06:29 (twelve years ago)

who is @AD_LT

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:27 (twelve years ago)

rondo back 2nite! http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-everything-you-think-you-know-about-rondos-shooting-is-wrong

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:39 (twelve years ago)

my shots let me show you them

http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/rondo_allshots_1152.jpg

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:41 (twelve years ago)

goldsberry is the worst

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:43 (twelve years ago)

no way

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:44 (twelve years ago)

like what is your point bro yes no one guards him and he makes 50% of his shots from the free throw line very cool story keep gettin dem checks

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:44 (twelve years ago)

his analysis is often bad but his charts are nectar bro

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:44 (twelve years ago)

yeah the charts are cool i admit

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:45 (twelve years ago)

like what is your point bro yes no one guards him and he makes 50% of his shots from the free throw line very cool story keep gettin dem checks

― k3vin k., Friday, January 17, 2014 12:44 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is actually a very good insight

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:46 (twelve years ago)

i like goldsberry. by nature some of his charts are going to confirm what we already know i.e. that rondo shoots a ton at the basket and from the elbows

le goon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 17 January 2014 17:46 (twelve years ago)

simmons should just buy out his technology or whatever and have someone else analyze them

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:46 (twelve years ago)

like what is your point bro yes no one guards him and he makes 50% of his shots from the free throw line very cool story keep gettin dem checks

― k3vin k., Friday, January 17, 2014 12:44 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is actually a very good insight

― lag∞n, Friday, January 17, 2014 12:46 PM (16 seconds ago)

but this is like, the book on rondo, anyone who watches basketball knows this

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:47 (twelve years ago)

but a lot of them are interesting i.e. which three point shooters are super deadly from the corners but actually bad from the wings (chandler parsons) or which player shoot/best from which areas

also his charts that show how a player's shooting has changed over time (lebron ones)

le goon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 17 January 2014 17:47 (twelve years ago)

this looks like a fun read, anyone gotta hookup?
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10308520/nba-handing-league-least-valuable-player-awards

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:47 (twelve years ago)

As Kevin Durant and LeBron James duke it out in the MVP race and the J.R. Smith circus tours America, it got me thinking:

Who's leading the LVP race so far?

In this edition of Per Diem, we'll take stock in the race for the least valuable player so far this season. Just like in the MVP race, we're not considering the contract status. For the purposes of this list, we're interested in identifying the players who have hurt their team's chances to win most. In essence, we're not looking at the 15th man on the roster. After all, you can't lose if you don't play.

Taking into consideration every player's traditional numbers and advance metrics including on-court/off-court data, here is one man's ranking of the least valuable players in the league so far.

And the "winners" are …
LVP: Kendrick Perkins, Oklahoma City Thunder

Give the guy a Nobel Peace Prize, because his leadership must be that transformative. Otherwise, there is no way he could convince an NBA coach to give him 20 minutes a night in 2014. Alas, Scott Brooks can't shake his Perkins addiction. With Perkins, every shred of tangible evidence points to "not an NBA player."
Perkins

Get this: He currently has more turnovers (53) than made baskets (48). And then there's the fact that he fouls five times as often as he blocks a shot.

If he does positive things outside the box score, it doesn't show on the scoreboard; the Thunder are 9.2 points per 100 possessions worse with him on the floor, according to NBA.com. That is especially amazing considering he plays almost exclusively (683 of his 690 minutes) with Kevin Durant. Even the MVP favorite can't hide his futility. Perkins ranks last in Estimated Wins Added (minus-1.5) and second-to-last in WARP (minus-1.8). It's hard to imagine a player more unintentionally destructive.

Second place: Anthony Bennett, Cleveland Cavaliers

Please, just send him to the D-League already. This isn't about pity; it's about rehabilitation. You know what's worse for his confidence than a demotion? Sticking with the status quo.
Bennett

With an obscenely bad 1.1 PER and a subterranean 31.9 percent true shooting percentage, this is the worst rookie season for a top pick by a country mile. The guy is shooting 14-for-78 (18 percent) outside five feet and ranks dead last in win shares (minus-0.9).

For someone with conditioning issues, why nail him to the bench when he could work himself into shape in the D-League without the spotlight? Keeping him on the big-league roster reeks of cognitive dissonance by a desperate organization trying to save face. The sleep apnea, shoulder soreness and asthma issues are real, but so is the potential damage to his career and the Cavs' chances at relevance. He might not boast the number of minutes as the rest of the names here, but his play is too toxic to leave him off.

Third place: Ben McLemore, Sacramento Kings.

Maybe it's completely meaningless and utterly arbitrary, but ever since LeBron James posterized him in Miami on Dec. 20, here are the rook's averages over those 12 games: 21.0 minutes, 4.6 points, 2.1 rebounds, 0.8 assists and 31.7 percent shooting from the floor, 32.1 percent from downtown and 0.7 free throw attempts.
McLemore

The worst part? He has 35 fouls and one steal over that span. That's horrendous for an athlete like him.

You probably haven't heard more about McLemore's demise because the most of the top 10 in the 2013 draft (with the exception of No. 9 pick Trey Burke) has been a train wreck. But McLemore's minus-0.4 PER this month illustrates how bad it's gotten, and he's now in danger of dropping out of the rotation after losing his starting spot earlier this month.

He's still just 20 years old, but we could be waiting a while for his athleticism to translate onto the NBA level.

Fourth place: Tayshaun Prince, Memphis Grizzlies

Meet the least valuable player in the league so far -- according to WARP. The 33-year-old has been a tire fire this season as the Grizzlies' starting small forward, posting a minus-1.9 WARP, which means that he's cost the Grizzlies two wins compared to a guy at the end of the bench.
Prince

For a team like the Grizzlies in the thick of the race, those two wins could be the difference between a playoff spot and the lottery.

Now that Prince has oddly abandoned the 3-point line for a team that is starving for treys, his value as an offensive player has just about vanished. He's not a shot creator and he ranks dead last in catch-and-shoot efficiency among the 82 players with at least 100 plays, according to Synergy. His solid defense keeps him from appearing higher on the list, but even that is waning as he ages. Recent free agent signee James Johnson could be starting before long.

Fifth place: J.R. Smith, New York Knicks

The issue isn't if the Knicks should bench Smith. The real question is, why didn't it happen sooner? By benching Smith now after juvenile antics, the Knicks are conveniently trying to distract fans from the actual culprit: he can't score.
Smith

Among the 98 players with a usage rate north of 20 percent and at least 750 minutes played, Smith ranks dead last in true shooting percentage (45.5 percent). The only thing more poisonous than a player who can't score is one that thinks he can.

With knee issues sapping his mobility, he should be reduced to a catch-and-shoot weapon, but the problem is that he believes he's Steve Nash, not Steve Novak. On-court/off-court data from NBA.com suggests that the Knicks are better off on both ends of the floor without him, confirming what our eyes tell us.
Dishonorable mentions:

Mayo

O.J. Mayo, Milwaukee Bucks: Mayo's numbers don't scream LVP on the surface, as he's posted a lukewarm 11.7 PER with an above-average 37.9 percent conversion rate from downtown. But then you realize that the Bucks have been outscored by 15.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and just 1.7 points per 100 possessions with him on the bench. In other words, the Bucks aren't a tanking team with Mayo.

Hinrich

Kirk Hinrich, Chicago Bulls: Not many players can make D.J. Augustin look like an All-Star by comparison. Enter Hinrich. The guy is shooting 29 percent over his last 14 games, ever since the Bulls thumped the Miami Heat by 20 points in early December. He can't get into the paint and can't create enough separation to open up passing lanes so he's just brutal to watch run an offense at this stage in his career. Among players with at least 30 minutes per game, Hinrich owns the worst PER at 9.1. I can't believe I'm saying this, but, more Augustin, please.

Zeller

Cody Zeller, Charlotte Bobcats: Remember when people thought he was the next LaMarcus Aldridge? Let's pump the brakes on that. Zeller has been atrocious as a shooter, converting just 26 percent of his 87 midrange jumpers this season. He has yet to make a 3-pointer, despite the hype that he was the best stretch 4 in the draft. It's early, but the No. 4 pick has been a mess on both ends of the floor.

Green

Willie Green, Los Angeles Clippers: If it weren't for his longtime pal Chris Paul, Green may be out of the league. He can knock down a corner 3 every once in a while, but other than that, he's a liability on the offensive end. The Clippers' starting lineup with J.J. Redick has scored 109.4 points per 100 possessions this season, per NBA.com. With Green? 97.7 points per 100 possessions. It's hard to make an offense that stars Paul and Blake Griffin look mediocre, but Green works wonders.

Fisher

Derek Fisher, Oklahoma City Thunder: Like the guy ranked No. 1 on this list, his leadership qualities must outweigh his on-court contributions, which makes you wonder why he doesn't just put on a three-piece suit and join the coaching staff already. He's woefully inefficient with a 50.1 percent true shooting percentage, but unlike other players on this list, he knows his limits for the most part. At 39, he's washed up like a beached whale.

le goon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 17 January 2014 17:48 (twelve years ago)

but this is like, the book on rondo, anyone who watches basketball knows this

― k3vin k., Friday, January 17, 2014 12:47 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in my estimation he shoots much better than the conventional wisdom on him which was the point of the article

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:48 (twelve years ago)

also goldsberrys piece from a while ago on how brons game has changed since joining the heat is one of the best basketball jounalisms of the last few years

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:49 (twelve years ago)

ya but the point is all of those are unguarded, gimme some play by play data on how he shoots with a defender within x feet of him or something, make it more useful

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 17:50 (twelve years ago)

the point is people are leaving him unguarded but should they

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:52 (twelve years ago)

obvs hes not a good shooter but has he become good enough to make teams play normal defense on him is what matters

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:53 (twelve years ago)

its pretty borderline at this point but if he improves even a lil bit teams will have to guard him which opens up all sorts of thing

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:53 (twelve years ago)

unless his knee sucks

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:55 (twelve years ago)

lebron birthday instagram message to wade

Happy Bday to my running mate, homie, brother, and most of all straight up friend!

The friendship we've created our rookie year at pre draft camp was pure and that's why we stuck together from that point on! Obviously didn't know we would eventually become teammates and do the things we've done so far.

I came to Miami for 2 reasons. To play with U and to win championships and I can't thank u enough for the sacrifice you've made since I arrived homie!

No matter what happens in the future we stuck together like brothers for life. And no matter what they say, u still a BAD Mutha-Shut-Yo-Mouth out there on that court! @dwyanewade.

Oh almost forgot u old as dirt! Boy you look 40. Hahaha! #TreyBallBDay #YouASuckaOnYoBDay"

lebron's gone, for sure. sad, really.

Daniel, Esq 2, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:55 (twelve years ago)

unless his knee sucks

― Spottie, Friday, January 17, 2014 12:55 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

shush

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:56 (twelve years ago)

(ty for article link j0)

Spottie, Friday, 17 January 2014 17:56 (twelve years ago)

btw speaking of M/LVPs i think if the season ended today an MVP vote for durant would be very defensible, as much as it pains me to say it

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 18:02 (twelve years ago)

yeah bron hasnt really been bringing the expert level D on a consistent basis which is ordinarily a huge differentiator between him and kd

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 18:03 (twelve years ago)

def

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 18:04 (twelve years ago)

durants D seems to be progressing too, saw him guarding some point guard in the 4th quarter the other night

lag∞n, Friday, 17 January 2014 18:04 (twelve years ago)

he's been solid for a while now, he's guarded PGs before, obv not to a lebron/pippen extent but he is quick and long and pretty smart. in a couple years he's going to be a really good defender

k3vin k., Friday, 17 January 2014 18:06 (twelve years ago)


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