the lakers have just pooped their big-boy pants: 2012-2013 NBA regular season thread (part 2)

also in terms of dunking they're pretty close, lag!

out of curiosity who are the nba players who are like, top 20 offense and defense (and who also aren't big men)

did t-mac ever get out of the first round? george might have him on that one already.

McGrady was an efficient scorer for like 3 years, are we saying that's the "real" TMac

im thinking in pierce, not sure why tho re: george

larry bird did a nice job @ this roster. i like it

― moullet, Friday, January 18, 2013 8:47 PM (13 minutes ago)

lol what is up for the prepositions of this post

no tmac never did make it out of the first roud

he inflates his % because instead of having to do difficult finishes he just gets fouled, not that hard to understand really. If you reduced your sample of attempts at the rim to breakaways and easier layups it will be better. This a good skill of his!

― Matt Armstrong, Friday, January 18, 2013 8:51 PM (10 minutes ago)

if anything his already ridiculously high fg% at the rim probably undervalues his efficiency there!

66% is not a ridiculously high FG% at the rim

out of curiosity who are the nba players who are like, top 20 offense and defense (and who also aren't big men)

― 乒乓, Friday, January 18, 2013 9:01 PM (3 minutes ago)

lebron obv, howard when he was good, duncan, younger kg

it kind of is for a guard xp

lebron is like #1 at offense and defense

he inflates his % because instead of having to do difficult finishes he just gets fouled, not that hard to understand really. If you reduced your sample of attempts at the rim to breakaways and easier layups it will be better. This a good skill of his!

― Matt Armstrong, Friday, January 18, 2013 8:51 PM (10 minutes ago)

that really makes no sense, he either finishes or doesnt on the shots he doesnt get fouled on just like everyone else, he doesnt somehow magically chose to get fouled on the shots he wouldve missed and not fouled on the rest - if youre saying he doesnt go for difficult finishes yeah shot selection factors into everyone elses fg% too

I think the only guard with comparable rim attempts that shoots a higher percentage is Wade.

Kevin Martin is shooting 73% at the rim do you think he's a good finisher?

cuz if the argument involves Kevin Martin being a good finisher I'll just step aside for a while

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53534/where-have-all-the-gunners-gone

he takes 1.5 a game!

lol

as EZ alluded to volume means something

but yeah i agree with your assessment somewhat, he's kind of stealth uncreative at the rim (once he gets there that is)

not sure what you guys are complaining about here, does the ball not go in enough, does he not get fouled enough, what exactly is this uncreative

what do u want? flair??

getting fouled on drives enables him to inflate his FG% at the rim because instead of having to attempt difficult layins he just gets fouled. Kevin Martin does the same thing (shot 70% on 3.2 attempts at the rim in Houston one year). Brandon Roy (a better finisher than Harden probably) was really good at it too.

Derrick Williams is an example of a guy who isn't a great finisher but instead of getting fouled he just gets swatted.

http://i.imgur.com/AFdzqw1.jpg

I mean maybe you can say that getting fouled is a way of finishing but a lot of those fouls happen so far away from the rim that I think it's kinda stretching the definition.

anyway James Harden having the 19th highest FG% at the rim of rotation SGs isn't ridiculously high.

getting fouled on drives enables him to inflate his FG% at the rim because instead of having to attempt difficult layins he just gets fouled. Kevin Martin does the same thing (shot 70% on 3.2 attempts at the rim in Houston one year). Brandon Roy (a better finisher than Harden probably) was really good at it too.

― Matt Armstrong, Friday, January 18, 2013 9:16 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mentioned before this makes no sense, you have a whole bunch of attempts on which he did not get fouled to judge where hes a good finisher or not

Guards with 5 or more attempts a game:

Harden 6.4, 66%
Westbrook 6.2, 56.3%
Wade 5.5, 74%
Kobe 5.4, 70.5%
Tyreke 5.4, 65.5%
Monte 5.3, 60.3%
Parker 5.2, 66%
Sessions 5.2, 51.9%
Kemba Walker 5.1, 56%
Lawson 5.0, 61.6%
Felton 5.0, 53.6%

tony parker, sick finisher at the cup

probably unfair to include midget PGs

thats the whole list mate!

was going to bring up roy as a sort of proto-harden at least w/r/t getting fouled as his real m.o.

two dudes ahead of him

i mentioned before this makes no sense, you have a whole bunch of attempts on which he did not get fouled to judge where hes a good finisher or not

― lag∞n, Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:18 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but what are those attempts? How many of them are contested? Contested attempts are the best way to judge a guy's ability to finish and we don't really have that data. Since we're out here in the stats wilderness we have to eyeball it a little and the eyeball test says that when Harden doesn't get fouled he has trouble finishing. As did Brandon Roy and as does Kevin Martin.

Harden is probably an ok finisher overall but to me drawing fouls /= finishing

the most important stat of all matts eyeballs

was going to bring up roy as a sort of proto-harden at least w/r/t getting fouled as his real m.o.

― Clay, Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:22 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

exactly, good comparison for Harden's craftiness

but like if your intent on the drive is to draw a foul and actually scoring a fg is maybe your secondary goal then it seems like drawing a foul is a way to finish so to speak.

the most important stat of all matts eyeballs

― lag∞n, Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:25 AM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

RIP Rubio jumpshooting

backed further into the corner matt armstrong lashes out like a wild animal

matt not finishing atm

Finishing at the rim like Sebastian Telfair.

harden drives a ton, gets fouled a bunch, makes a bunch of shots, hes prob p good at finishing in traffic i think is a safe assumption, not wade/bron type levels but pretty good

is the argument that Harden having the 19th best FG% at the rim among SGs doesn't matter because he has a lot of attempts based on sample size? Or does the larger number of attempts imply tougher shots?

the later, you can pick yr spots w/one attempt a game

the larger number of attempts means driving to the basket is an integral part of his game. SGs with few attempts most likely get them on breaks and the like and do not regularly try to finish in traffic.

but by drawing fouls on his more difficult drives Harden is picking his spots don't you seeeee

Martin had 3.5 attempts at the rim in Houston one year and shot 70%

harden imho fwiw more generally is trying to do a lil too much this year, leading the league in turnovers, 3pt% is way down

but by drawing fouls on his more difficult drives Harden is picking his spots don't you seeeee

― Matt Armstrong, Friday, January 18, 2013 9:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but he still has too many attempts to be all easy ones

well I didn't say he was an awful finisher