the lakers have just pooped their big-boy pants: 2012-2013 NBA regular season thread (part 2)

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good man, that.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 12:45 (thirteen years ago)

"Yeah, I'm a man of my word. A Hibbert always pays his debts. ... I guess I have to go find an ATM."

-- Pacers center Roy Hibbert, on telling his final five teammates left on the floor that he'd pay them $100 each if they kept the Bobcats to fewer than 80 points.

ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:40 (thirteen years ago)

ATM? Kinda disappointed that a max player doesn't have like 2 grand in walking around/tipping money on his person at any given time tbh

pandemic, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 15:13 (thirteen years ago)

diwght w back to back big games since returning

lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 15:24 (thirteen years ago)

If there were such a thing as an NBA hipster, chances are he or she would be quietly obsessed with Detroit Pistons rookie center Andre Drummond.

Drummond is toiling away in NBA obscurity in Detroit, where even the local fans are bored with their team -- the Palace of Auburn Hills is filled to only 60 percent capacity on game nights, by far the lowest in the league. The Pistons also might be the league's most nondescript team both in style and in name, so it's no surprise people might be snoozing on this guy.

And while everyone is justifiably jumping on the Damian Lillard bandwagon, there's still room on the Drummond train. But it's filling up quickly.

Drummond is currently producing at a level we've never seen in the NBA from a teenager. The 19-year-old big man is averaging 7.1 points, 7.2 rebounds and 1.6 blocks with 59 percent shooting, all in less than 20 minutes per game.

He also has a 21.9 player efficiency rating, the highest PER for any teenager in NBA history. If it keeps up, he'll have a better PER than Kyrie Irving, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony when they were teenagers.

Translate his numbers on a per-36 minute basis, and you're left with 13.0 points, 13.3 rebounds, 3.0 blocks and 1.5 steals with 59.7 percent shooting.

Top PER among teenagers in NBA history*
Player PER Mins. per game
Andre Drummond 21.9 19.7
Kyrie Irving 21.4 30.5
Tracy McGrady 20.6 22.6
Kobe Bryant 18.5 26.0
LeBron James 18.3 39.5* - minimum 700 minutes
But to fully appreciate Drummond, you have to see him in action. Sure, you could be lazy and pull up the CliffsNotes version in the morning's top plays. After all, he's a staple there. But don't take shortcuts, because you don't want to miss his array of talents.

The first thing you notice about Drummond is that he moves like an oversized point guard. He is massive at 6-foot-10 and 270 pounds but he gallops around the court as if he were a foot shorter and a hundred pounds lighter. He runs circles around other lumbering 7-footers. To say he is athletic is to call Steve Nash mildly resourceful.

You probably have already seen the dunks. As far as vicious big-man dunkers go, Darryl Dawkins, Shawn Kemp and Blake Griffin might have company. Drummond is that terrifying. And he throws them down often, having already tallied 55 dunks this season, which trails only JaVale McGee, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler and Griffin in dunks per minute.

But it's the way he gets his dunks that's most impressive. On a half-dozen occasions this season, Drummond has stolen the ball on defense and started his own fast break, dribbling down the length of the floor for a thunderous slam on the other end. But it looks completely normal when he does it because he has that rare combination of skill and athleticism to pull it off. Can't say the same for most big men.

However, he's not just a dunker. Like most youngsters, Drummond has a tendency to chase steals and blocks. But he also has displayed a knack for getting stops, as evidenced by the fact that he's currently the only player in the league to average at least 3.0 blocks and 1.5 steals every 36 minutes on the floor. Yes, he's raw, but he's already turning his tantalizing potential into a reality in the box score.

This is where we arrive at the most logical destination when we talk about young talents: Who is his best comp?

To answer that question, we turn to fellow ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton, whose SCHOENE player projection system uses key player stats, as well as height and weight, to identify the most similar predecessors at the same age (ranked from zero to 100, with 100 being the most similar).

For Drummond, that's Dwight Howard. By a healthy margin.

Most similar to Drummond by SCHOENE similarity score
Player SimScore
Dwight Howard 93.2
Andris Biedrins 91.4
Derrick Favors 91.3
Kevin Garnett 91.1
Josh Smith 90.6
Like Drummond, Howard came into the league at a similar age and height, but Howard received more minutes from the start, which is why their per-game stats don't match up well. Howard averaged 32.6 minutes per game in his debut season, far more than Drummond's 19.8 this season.

But on a per-36 minute level, we see Howard's averages of 13.2 points, 11.2 rebounds and 1.8 blocks with 9.1 shots per game are almost an exact replica of Drummond's season. Smart folks such as ESPN.com's Beckley Mason have made a comparison to Chandler, both in statistics and scoring style, but SCHOENE likes the Howard comp the best so far.

However, look at that second guy on the list. Yes, Andris Biedrins is the second strongest comparative player, and that's somewhat discouraging. But it makes sense when you consider that both Drummond and Biedrins haven't figured out how to make free throws quite yet, although Drummond's 39 percent rate isn't quite as rotten as Biedrins' 25 percent rate over the past four seasons.

If Biedrins is the worst-case scenario for the Pistons, they should be thrilled with that value at the ninth pick. It's easy to forget that before Biedrins' bizarre free throw affliction took over, he was a double-double machine who generated a $54 million contract from the Warriors.

And the others? A future Hall of Famer in Kevin Garnett, a blossoming starter in Derrick Favors and a borderline All-Star in Josh Smith. That mixed bag seems about right for a player as equally raw and talented as Drummond. And that's what makes him so intriguing. He could be this generation's next great center or he could be a backup at age 26.

Judging by his minutes, even the Pistons don't know exactly what they have. Despite his bubbling production and potential, the UConn product is still averaging only 21.3 minutes a night in January, down slightly from his 22.1-minute average in December. It's clear Detroit coach Lawrence Frank doesn't quite trust Drummond to play the minutes a player of his statistical caliber deserves.

While Drummond figures out Frank's system, the teenager might have another roadblock to overcome: Greg Monroe, another talented Detroit big man. However, the Pistons have dabbled in playing the two together, and it has yielded some early success. According to NBA.com's stats tool, a lineup of Brandon Knight, Rodney Stuckey, Tayshaun Prince and the two big men has played 52 minutes together (the fifth-most among Detroit lineups) and has beaten opponents by 12 points.

Those 52 minutes, however, are spread across just 16 games, indicating that lineup is only making cameos at this point. And although a point margin of plus-12 isn't exactly a home run, it's enough to make you wonder why it's not being used more often.

Drummond hasn't broken into the starting lineup yet, but it might be only a matter of time at this point. It's certainly possible the Pistons are showcasing veterans Charlie Villanueva and Jason Maxiell for a potential deal before the deadline and Drummond might end up getting a promotion soon. At 14-24, Detroit remains in the playoff hunt, but according to Hollinger's Playoff Odds, the Pistons have only about a one-in-three chance at punching their playoff ticket.

If the Pistons end up giving Drummond the minutes he deserves, East playoff bubble teams such as the Hawks and the Bucks better watch out.

And so should Damian Lillard.

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 16 January 2013 18:31 (thirteen years ago)

thx j0rd!

moullet, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 18:33 (thirteen years ago)

free andre drummond

lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 18:35 (thirteen years ago)

oh, you NBA hipster, you.

Aimless, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 18:56 (thirteen years ago)

if there were such a thing...

lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 18:58 (thirteen years ago)

I bet they'd play him more if he could shoot above .400 from the stripe.

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:33 (thirteen years ago)

gulp

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN
Stephen Curry re-aggravated right ankle injury this morning. He's a gametime decision against Heat tonight.

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:45 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/WpFci.jpg

乒乓, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:18 (thirteen years ago)

Ah damn. Poor fella. Was really looking forward to the game, I hope he plays.

queef ka queef (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:33 (thirteen years ago)

This is where we arrive at the most logical destination when we talk about young talents: Who is his best comp?

http://www.texturemonkey.com/HCG/blog/combatBasketball_(11).jpg

moullet, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:13 (thirteen years ago)

At 14-24, Detroit remains in the playoff hunt, but according to Hollinger's Playoff Odds, the Pistons have only about a one-in-three chance at punching their playoff ticket.

lol the east

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:41 (thirteen years ago)

has been a joy watching drummond play well this season though. really good kid

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:42 (thirteen years ago)

elton brand!

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:35 (thirteen years ago)

harden's missed like 4 layups in the 4q

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:40 (thirteen years ago)

I know we have some Warrior diehards on here (Spottie, right?), so I was hoping you could shed some light on Klay Thompson. He doesn't seem as good as last year; always looking over to the bench, hesitant, slow on rotations, etc. Is something up? Is Mark Jackson grinding him down?

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 17 January 2013 03:55 (thirteen years ago)

am i wrong in thinking this cavs team could be v good in a couple years, especially if they get a decent piece/pick(s) for varejao?

Clay, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:02 (thirteen years ago)

i dunno, not really a whole lot of talent after irving and maybe waiters

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:04 (thirteen years ago)

btw, remember when lebron was a bad 3 pt shooter and we all thought he was gonna give up on them? that seems like a career ago now

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:05 (thirteen years ago)

thompson seems v promising

Clay, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:05 (thirteen years ago)

thompson with 13-12-2 in january, shooting over 50%.

Clay, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:07 (thirteen years ago)

oh right forgot about him

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:11 (thirteen years ago)

wade with 9-4-2-3-1 in 9 minutes

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:12 (thirteen years ago)

EZ: yeah klay's's not shooting as well this year. also his assists have gone up, kind of synchs up with the w's whole new "defense + extra pass" thing.

brimstead, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:24 (thirteen years ago)

who even knows what's going on w/steph's ankle. I do not trust the w's front office after their lying bogut baloney.

brimstead, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:28 (thirteen years ago)

Thanks for some feedback, brimstead.

I figured that was part of it. He was such a joyful player to watch when I caught games last year, but this year -- in the 8-10 games I've caught at least a part of -- he seems to second guess and get on himself when he makes an error. Was chalking it up to Jackson pushing a system harder and him playing starter's minutes with the pressure that goes with that bigger role. Can probably chalk up the shooting drops to playing against the opposing starters more as well.

I was wondering if my eyes were deceiving me or if I had just caught anomalous games.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:31 (thirteen years ago)

bron popping off

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:33 (thirteen years ago)

1 pt to 20k

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:34 (thirteen years ago)

he's so young and too good of a shooter for me to be concerned - he's still shooting .40/.38/.87

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:35 (thirteen years ago)

batum has 8 turnovers with 4 minutes to go in the third

Clay, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:36 (thirteen years ago)

I know we have some Warrior diehards on here (Spottie, right?), so I was hoping you could shed some light on Klay Thompson. He doesn't seem as good as last year; always looking over to the bench, hesitant, slow on rotations, etc. Is something up? Is Mark Jackson grinding him down?]

His shooting % was higher but he is shooting a lot more threes this year and still shooting 39% from there. There are games where he looks amazing and games where he makes boneheaded plays over and over. I wonder about his shot selection often, a little too quick to trigger sometimes, needs some patience. He is actually pretty good going to the rim but doesnt do it enough, not sure if he is shy of contact. His team defense is pretty ok overall. He is important to have on the floor as he and curry keep the floor spread and open everything up for Lee/Landry to go work. Not a great season really so far but I'm not overly worried about him yet.

queef ka queef (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:38 (thirteen years ago)

Yeah he was more of a plain spot up shooter last season, might just be going through "growing pains" w/r/t improving all aspects the game. He's too big to be just a cach and shoot guy, though, imo. Idk.

brimstead, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:39 (thirteen years ago)

ugh bill Simmons's voice

brimstead, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:40 (thirteen years ago)

right? he sounded terrible

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:40 (thirteen years ago)

early on in his podcasting days he was v. embarrassed by his voice

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:41 (thirteen years ago)

Yea agree. He has more upside than that for sure. His confidence wanes for sure.

queef ka queef (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:42 (thirteen years ago)

xxxxp

queef ka queef (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:43 (thirteen years ago)

epic lebron half

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:45 (thirteen years ago)

this lebron kid is gonna be ok

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:46 (thirteen years ago)

ha xp

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:46 (thirteen years ago)

wade with miami's first 2 for 1 of the season that i can remember

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:46 (thirteen years ago)

lebron more like le sucks at basketball

lag∞n, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:47 (thirteen years ago)

Thanks Spottie!

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:48 (thirteen years ago)

lebron more like le sucks at basketball

― lag∞n, Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:47 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he's just big iirc

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:57 (thirteen years ago)

wait lol the hornets beat the celtics in the garden tonight?

J0rdan S., Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:57 (thirteen years ago)

they've won like 4 of 5 or something

fiscal cliff paul (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:58 (thirteen years ago)


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