yeah, i'm talkin dwight / yeah, i'm talkin steve: 2012-2013 NBA regular season thread (part 1)

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my guess is that the lakers will probably be able to swing a move for another three point shooter. but it will be interesting to see how everything shakes out. d'antoni's suns teams obv didn't have dominant a ball-dominant wing player or two back to the basket big men. i assume he'll be able to shake it out in the end but i wouldn't go back to calling them the west favorites quite yet.

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:19 (thirteen years ago)

we haven't even talked about bynum being out at least 5 more weeks

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:25 (thirteen years ago)

yeah wtf is up with him

all mods con (k3vin k.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:26 (thirteen years ago)

great job suxers

乒乓, Monday, 12 November 2012 17:27 (thirteen years ago)

andrew seems depressed

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 17:39 (thirteen years ago)

D'Antoni the right choice for Lakers

All things considered, L.A. made the right decision (PER Diem: Nov. 12, 2012)

By John Hollinger | ESPN.com

It's an extreme irony that just days after Mike Brown talked about Steve Nash never winning a championship in Mike D'Antoni's offense, the Lakers whacked Brown so Steve Nash could pursue a championship running Mike D'Antoni's offense.

L.A.'s decision to fire Brown on Friday was the kind of knee-jerk silliness that we'd normally expect from Sacramento or the Knicks -- if you thought the guy was good enough on opening day, five games shouldn't change your mind. To that extent it may hint at some larger issues in their front office under Jim Buss.

It's also highly illogical that the Lakers were so focused on the merits of their coaching candidate's offenses -- Princeton vs. Triangle vs. Seven Seconds or Less -- when the Lakers' failing in their first five games came almost entirely at the defensive end. Even after two strong home wins under the undefeated Bernie Bickerstaff, the Lakers are just 18th in defensive efficiency.

Nonetheless, Brown's decision to shepherd in the Slowtime Era was an unwieldy mistake given his personnel, and the Lakers clearly came into the season already harboring a lot of doubts about him. I'll offer this additional critique that was scarcely mentioned -- he was playing the key players way too many minutes.

As for D'Antoni, he never quite got his due for what he accomplished in Phoenix, implementing a system with Nash that basically shocked the league for a few years while everyone figured out how to guard it (and eventually, copy it). He effectively provided the blueprint for how teams could space the floor and take advantage of the mid-decade hand-checking rules, and he still does it better than anyone else.

Somehow, the narrative on this accomplishment turned from "he completely knocked the league on its [butt]" to "he took a 29-win team and prevented them from winning a championship." What D'Antoni did in Phoenix was historic.

But it's a copycat league, and once Phoenix's system was copied the surprise factor wasn't quite as strong. You now see elements of D'Antoni's offense all over the league -- Phoenix still uses it, and most of the league's other teams have appropriated large chunks of it. One of the few resistors, actually, was the Lakers.

You can see the impact over time. The Suns led the league in offensive efficiency the first three years Nash and D'Antoni worked together, with the first year in particular being one of the best offensive teams in history. But by his final season they were second, and his clubs in New York were 17th three times in four seasons.

In other words, just like everywhere else, the players usually matter a lot more than the system. For a brief window, D'Antoni was able to get the "system" part of that equation punching way above its weight.

D'Antoni will have some players in L.A., fortunately, starting with Nash. He might be a bit older and a bit slower than he was in his heyday, but he is still one of the best pick-and-roll practitioners you'll ever see. With Dwight Howard as a roll man, Kobe Bryant on the weak side with Metta World Peace (who, despite his other faults, is a good corner 3-point shooter), and Pau Gasol lifting for mid-range jumpers, the Lakers certainly have enough weapons to make this halfcourt system work.

And make no mistake, this is mostly a halfcourt system. "Seven second or less" is a catchy name, but this system has more to do with drag screens for Nash and quick-hitting plays early in the shot clock than it does with players flying up and down the court in transition, especially if Leandro Barbosa and Shawn Marion aren't involved. Every one of D'Antoni's teams finished in the top 10 in pace, as have every one of Nash's teams, but it's been a long time since either led the league or even came close. With this roster, one shouldn't necessarily expect Showtime 2.0.

Of course, the real way to look at the D'Antoni decision is by comparing it to the alternatives. I think we can immediately throw out the "he never won a ring" critique, as there was only one viable candidate who had. Otherwise, the only coaches who are a) alive, b) unemployed, and c) won a title in the last quarter-century are Rudy Tomjanovich -- been there, done that -- and Larry Brown, who has since evolved into a parody of himself.

Among the rest of the field, D'Antoni was the one who had the best chance to get the, er, strong-willed Kobe Bryant to go along with the program, given the experience the two have had with USA Basketball and their shared bond of quasi-Italianness.

With one exception, obviously: Phil Jackson. Nonetheless, I thought this was the right move based on the information that's out there. No sitting exec is going to willingly cede power, as Jackson apparently wanted, and having him skip road games wasn't going to be practical. One can argue the Lakers should have kept the door open for longer while negotiating with Jackson -- D'Antoni literally wasn't going anywhere, as he's recovering from knee replacement surgery -- but the end-game seemed pretty clear, and hiring Phil under those terms would have been nearly as knee-jerky as firing Brown.

Which leaves us with D'Antoni, and his challenge of managing Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. He had trouble standing up to an iso-happy scorer with a big ego in New York with Carmelo Anthony; how is he going to fare with these two?

It's a fair question; that and doubts about D'Antoni's defensive chops are his two biggest obstacles to success in L.A. Nonetheless, there should be enough touches to go around for everybody, especially once Howard sees how many uncontested dunks Nash can get him. As for the defense, D'Antoni's teams were more "average" than "bad" at this end, but the critique that he's almost entirely focused on the offense from a practice and preparation standpoint has been widespread. With a defensive dominator like Howard, there's no excuse for him not to have a top 10 defense.

D'Antoni's other challenge may be his roster. His later teams in Phoenix succeeded even when there wasn't a ton of shooting on the court -- the frontcourt was Marion-Boris Diaw-Amare Stoudemire -- but they were in the top four in 3-pointers every year. The Lakers' roster just doesn't have that kind of shooting right now.

A few short-term fixes can improve the situation a bit. We'll probably see a lot more of Jodie Meeks, and Antawn Jamison may see more minutes as a floor-spacing 4 rather than a fish-out-of-water 3. We may even see Steve Blake playing off the ball as a 2.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Lakers pursue another wing shooter. They'll probably inquire about Miami's little-used James Jones, a veteran of D'Antoni's system, and kick the tires on guys like Shawne Williams and Raja Bell, if Bell can ever work a buyout with Utah. (Side note: You also gotta think Barbosa is bummed he chose Boston over L.A.)

But in the short-term, D'Antoni may have to play more traditional iso basketball. With Nash out and Blake nursing an abdominal injury, he's left entrusting his precious offense to Chris Duhon and Darius Morris. Egads.

Of course, the short-term isn't what the Lakers are worrying about. (Well, unless it involves Mike Brown). More practically, D'Antoni has 75 games to get his offense humming at the championship-caliber level everyone expected before the season, and to do it with enough defensive integrity that they can, at the very least, make the conference finals. It remains to be seen if he can do that, but from here it seems he has a better chance than just about anyone else.

moullet, Monday, 12 November 2012 18:17 (thirteen years ago)

http://tracking.si.com/2012/11/10/report-phil-jackson-signs-3-year-contract-with-lakers/

frogbs, Monday, 12 November 2012 18:21 (thirteen years ago)

seems legit

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 18:24 (thirteen years ago)

Phil wanted a major say in basketball operations and with Jim Buss just recently getting the keys to the car there was no way he was giving that up to his sisters BF.

lol

My heart wanted Phil but head wanted Mike. Both heart and head are mushy sad heaps of tissue tho so...

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 12 November 2012 18:56 (thirteen years ago)

is Jim in love with his sister or what

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 12 November 2012 20:14 (thirteen years ago)

the defense thing is overrated imo... the D was bad in phoenix because their primary players were steve nash & amare, two of the worst defenders possible. but in NY, they were a top 10 defense once they signed chandler. if dwight is healthy there's no way they won't at least be that.

― lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, November 12, 2012 3:33 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

looks like a big if right now

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 12 November 2012 20:18 (thirteen years ago)

he had a p sick game last night, looks like a standard guy working himself back from injury type thing to me, but who knows

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 20:22 (thirteen years ago)

yeah i don't see any reason why he won't be at 100% sometime soon. initial time table had dude out until Dec sometime so he'll be alright

carne asada, Monday, 12 November 2012 20:28 (thirteen years ago)

not that he's a defensive beast, but cousins was out xp

all mods con (k3vin k.), Monday, 12 November 2012 21:09 (thirteen years ago)

Cousins kind of is a defensive beast, in a weird way

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 12 November 2012 21:14 (thirteen years ago)

number 5 in STL+BLK+CHG per game last year

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 12 November 2012 21:16 (thirteen years ago)

STALL+BLINK+CHUG

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 22:14 (thirteen years ago)

man we all laughed at the Jrue Holiday deal but he's been killing it

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 00:13 (thirteen years ago)

Jim Buss looks like a golf pro at best.

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 00:32 (thirteen years ago)

Drummond is making quick progress, nice to see

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 01:21 (thirteen years ago)

Brandon Jennings NBA2k gaming

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:08 (thirteen years ago)

did everyone read the 80s houston rockets thing on grantland? great stuff.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:14 (thirteen years ago)

no but thank you i will

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:15 (thirteen years ago)

i'm a sucker for oral history-type pieces but this one had lots of fun little details

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:16 (thirteen years ago)

league pass alert raptors-jazz 1 pt game

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:22 (thirteen years ago)

also raptors trompe loeil thing on the floor under the basket makes my brain hurt

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:23 (thirteen years ago)

Shved is good

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:24 (thirteen years ago)

Minny is whitewashing right now fyi

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:25 (thirteen years ago)

ridnour-shved-kirilenko-amundson-pekovic

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:25 (thirteen years ago)

its shocking just how white twolves are and they're even missing two of their best wites

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:25 (thirteen years ago)

tbf pekovic is really a half-orc

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:26 (thirteen years ago)

Shved should just be the starting two from now on, much better than Mummy Roy

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:26 (thirteen years ago)

al jefferson threw in a three to go to OT

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:27 (thirteen years ago)

its shocking just how white twolves are and they're even missing two of their best wites

― questionable motor (agent hibachi), Monday, November 12, 2012 8:25 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not to mention that chase budinger and stiemsma are literally the two whitest whites in the league

ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:31 (thirteen years ago)

i heard we put in an offer sheet on powder

ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:31 (thirteen years ago)

Jazz-Raptors pumping up fantasy stats across the nation

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:47 (thirteen years ago)

harden really should be in the upper 80s in FT%, why does he miss so many

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 02:54 (thirteen years ago)

jazz and raptors tied again! 8 seconds left in 2OT

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:05 (thirteen years ago)

3OT

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:07 (thirteen years ago)

Doc is damn good at late game play calling. Easy oop for KG out of a timeout.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:18 (thirteen years ago)

this crazed houston fan is dressed either like a biker or a pirate, i can't tell, and is holding a doll of jeremy lin as a vampire with long hair

what am i missing here?

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:23 (thirteen years ago)

good game in houston btw

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:23 (thirteen years ago)

good lord lebron from the parking lot

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:24 (thirteen years ago)

miami has bosh on harden and harden is just ABUSING him

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:25 (thirteen years ago)

Rondo is good.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:25 (thirteen years ago)

two straight ridiculous passes to open three point shooters after busting bosh bad off the dribble

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:26 (thirteen years ago)

Just switched over to Houston and caught that bs foul on Morris.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:27 (thirteen years ago)

lebron has gone absolutely insane for 32 points in the second half

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:29 (thirteen years ago)

lin just airballed a wide open 3

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:31 (thirteen years ago)

Oof. Ran a great play and that was a complete whiff.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 03:32 (thirteen years ago)


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