yeah, i'm talkin dwight / yeah, i'm talkin steve: 2012-2013 NBA regular season thread (part 1)

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That ought to help their horrible defense.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 12 November 2012 13:17 (thirteen years ago)

omg D'Antoni got a 4 year deal, this guy has 9 lives

― Matt Armstrong, Monday, November 12, 2012 2:47 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hah this was my exact thought.

call all destroyer, Monday, 12 November 2012 13:45 (thirteen years ago)

steve nash is not gonna play for 4 more years

乒乓, Monday, 12 November 2012 13:51 (thirteen years ago)

so is he not gonna start until the new year or is he gonna be coaching in a wheelchair?

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 14:11 (thirteen years ago)

Jim Buss is the fucking worst

carne asada, Monday, 12 November 2012 14:27 (thirteen years ago)

Hope yall are ready for
the
art of
the
PICK-
and-
ROLL

ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Monday, 12 November 2012 14:29 (thirteen years ago)

wtf

ciderpress, Monday, 12 November 2012 14:32 (thirteen years ago)

The Nash Whisperer returns.

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Monday, 12 November 2012 14:35 (thirteen years ago)

d'antoni's pick & roll will really be put to the test when the shooters are metta world peace, steve blake and jodie meeks

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 14:47 (thirteen years ago)

In the end, the Lakers felt D'Antoni gave them a better chance to win this year.

OH FUCKING REALLY

frogbs, Monday, 12 November 2012 14:56 (thirteen years ago)

can we just make a dedicated Lakers thread?

frogbs, Monday, 12 November 2012 14:57 (thirteen years ago)

they may be right! phil's last season in LA was a disaster and if he wasn't even trying to go on the road.........

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 14:58 (thirteen years ago)

i actually think d'antoni is the best choice!

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:03 (thirteen years ago)

phil's mind games would probably take a year or two to sink in with dwight

nobody but dwight is gonna play defense anyway

and mike will free nash to do nash things

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:03 (thirteen years ago)

d'antoni's pick & roll will really be put to the test when the shooters are metta world peace, steve blake and jodie meeks

― lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, November 12, 2012 9:47 AM (15 minutes ago)

this^^ kicking the ball out to these guys is the problem no doubt

carne asada, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:05 (thirteen years ago)

about a draw in terms of mustache power though

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:05 (thirteen years ago)

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mddey0Mdr41rbb4f2o1_500.jpg

carne asada, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:09 (thirteen years ago)

d'antoni's pick & roll will really be put to the test when the shooters are metta world peace, steve blake and jodie meeks

― lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, November 12, 2012 9:47 AM (15 minutes ago)

this^^ kicking the ball out to these guys is the problem no doubt

― carne asada, Monday, November 12, 2012 8:05 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If Nash can turn Tim Thomas and Quentin Richardson into regular Ray Allens then I dont see the issue.

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:11 (thirteen years ago)

remember when steve blake took that open shot that could have been a game winner and missed and kobe gave him the dark side death grip look

乒乓, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:13 (thirteen years ago)

Quentin Richardson shot his career average from three the year he was with Nash. He just shot more. Tim Thomas was shooting over 40% from three for several years before coming to Phoenix. Nash didn't make them into Ray Allen.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:15 (thirteen years ago)

always seemed to me that PJ's iffy final season was kind of a side effect of his failing health, if he's getting better and won't skip games I think he's the clear choice

frogbs, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:22 (thirteen years ago)

he was planning on skipping games tho

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:25 (thirteen years ago)

what exactly are his health problems - bum knee and what else?

乒乓, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:26 (thirteen years ago)

there were signs that the game was passing phil by to some extent too, like he wasnt that into THE CORNER 3, for real

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:28 (thirteen years ago)

at least he tries to get his guys to play D

turds (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:29 (thirteen years ago)

XD

乒乓, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:29 (thirteen years ago)

it seemed like phil's conditions for coming back were ridic enough that the lakers were right to think "yeah screw you you don't want the job that bad"

call all destroyer, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:30 (thirteen years ago)

phil is a 70-year-old, 6-foot-8 ex-basketball player, i'm gonna guess that his health problems are an ongoing issue

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:30 (thirteen years ago)

will be interesting to see if dwight howard can make up for the fact that the lakers will literally not practice defense under d'antoni

call all destroyer, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:30 (thirteen years ago)

Quentin Richardson shot his career average from three the year he was with Nash. He just shot more. Tim Thomas was shooting over 40% from three for several years before coming to Phoenix. Nash didn't make them into Ray Allen.

― EZ Snappin, Monday, November 12, 2012 8:15 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok, sorry everyone

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:31 (thirteen years ago)

their D will improve as dwight gets back to full strength, mike brown couldnt get them to play and his cleveland teams were always amongst the defensive leaders, diantoni def has not been blessed w/defensively talented rosters over the years

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:33 (thirteen years ago)

he was planning on skipping games tho

oh, I remember reading that he wasn't

frogbs, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:33 (thirteen years ago)

the defense thing is overrated imo... the D was bad in phoenix because their primary players were steve nash & amare, two of the worst defenders possible. but in NY, they were a top 10 defense once they signed chandler. if dwight is healthy there's no way they won't at least be that.

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:33 (thirteen years ago)

espn was saying he was gonna skip road games, wanted all the money in the world, and all the power

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 15:34 (thirteen years ago)

phil was totally asking for the offer he couldn't refuse. i don't see anything wrong with it & it seems like they rightly moved on pretty quickly.

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:35 (thirteen years ago)

"sportscenter is brought to you by doomsday preppers"

Eccsame the Photon Guys (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 12 November 2012 15:59 (thirteen years ago)

Phil wanted a major say in basketball operations and with Jim Buss just recently getting the keys to the car there was no way he was giving that up to his sisters BF.

carne asada, Monday, 12 November 2012 16:03 (thirteen years ago)

haha

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 16:08 (thirteen years ago)

phil walk into lakers office, ruffles jims hair, chews gum, puts his feet up on the desk

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 16:09 (thirteen years ago)

jordan otm re 3 pt shooting & defense

all mods con (k3vin k.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:06 (thirteen years ago)

my guess is that the lakers will probably be able to swing a move for another three point shooter. but it will be interesting to see how everything shakes out. d'antoni's suns teams obv didn't have dominant a ball-dominant wing player or two back to the basket big men. i assume he'll be able to shake it out in the end but i wouldn't go back to calling them the west favorites quite yet.

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:19 (thirteen years ago)

we haven't even talked about bynum being out at least 5 more weeks

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:25 (thirteen years ago)

yeah wtf is up with him

all mods con (k3vin k.), Monday, 12 November 2012 17:26 (thirteen years ago)

great job suxers

乒乓, Monday, 12 November 2012 17:27 (thirteen years ago)

andrew seems depressed

lag∞n, Monday, 12 November 2012 17:39 (thirteen years ago)

D'Antoni the right choice for Lakers

All things considered, L.A. made the right decision (PER Diem: Nov. 12, 2012)

By John Hollinger | ESPN.com

It's an extreme irony that just days after Mike Brown talked about Steve Nash never winning a championship in Mike D'Antoni's offense, the Lakers whacked Brown so Steve Nash could pursue a championship running Mike D'Antoni's offense.

L.A.'s decision to fire Brown on Friday was the kind of knee-jerk silliness that we'd normally expect from Sacramento or the Knicks -- if you thought the guy was good enough on opening day, five games shouldn't change your mind. To that extent it may hint at some larger issues in their front office under Jim Buss.

It's also highly illogical that the Lakers were so focused on the merits of their coaching candidate's offenses -- Princeton vs. Triangle vs. Seven Seconds or Less -- when the Lakers' failing in their first five games came almost entirely at the defensive end. Even after two strong home wins under the undefeated Bernie Bickerstaff, the Lakers are just 18th in defensive efficiency.

Nonetheless, Brown's decision to shepherd in the Slowtime Era was an unwieldy mistake given his personnel, and the Lakers clearly came into the season already harboring a lot of doubts about him. I'll offer this additional critique that was scarcely mentioned -- he was playing the key players way too many minutes.

As for D'Antoni, he never quite got his due for what he accomplished in Phoenix, implementing a system with Nash that basically shocked the league for a few years while everyone figured out how to guard it (and eventually, copy it). He effectively provided the blueprint for how teams could space the floor and take advantage of the mid-decade hand-checking rules, and he still does it better than anyone else.

Somehow, the narrative on this accomplishment turned from "he completely knocked the league on its [butt]" to "he took a 29-win team and prevented them from winning a championship." What D'Antoni did in Phoenix was historic.

But it's a copycat league, and once Phoenix's system was copied the surprise factor wasn't quite as strong. You now see elements of D'Antoni's offense all over the league -- Phoenix still uses it, and most of the league's other teams have appropriated large chunks of it. One of the few resistors, actually, was the Lakers.

You can see the impact over time. The Suns led the league in offensive efficiency the first three years Nash and D'Antoni worked together, with the first year in particular being one of the best offensive teams in history. But by his final season they were second, and his clubs in New York were 17th three times in four seasons.

In other words, just like everywhere else, the players usually matter a lot more than the system. For a brief window, D'Antoni was able to get the "system" part of that equation punching way above its weight.

D'Antoni will have some players in L.A., fortunately, starting with Nash. He might be a bit older and a bit slower than he was in his heyday, but he is still one of the best pick-and-roll practitioners you'll ever see. With Dwight Howard as a roll man, Kobe Bryant on the weak side with Metta World Peace (who, despite his other faults, is a good corner 3-point shooter), and Pau Gasol lifting for mid-range jumpers, the Lakers certainly have enough weapons to make this halfcourt system work.

And make no mistake, this is mostly a halfcourt system. "Seven second or less" is a catchy name, but this system has more to do with drag screens for Nash and quick-hitting plays early in the shot clock than it does with players flying up and down the court in transition, especially if Leandro Barbosa and Shawn Marion aren't involved. Every one of D'Antoni's teams finished in the top 10 in pace, as have every one of Nash's teams, but it's been a long time since either led the league or even came close. With this roster, one shouldn't necessarily expect Showtime 2.0.

Of course, the real way to look at the D'Antoni decision is by comparing it to the alternatives. I think we can immediately throw out the "he never won a ring" critique, as there was only one viable candidate who had. Otherwise, the only coaches who are a) alive, b) unemployed, and c) won a title in the last quarter-century are Rudy Tomjanovich -- been there, done that -- and Larry Brown, who has since evolved into a parody of himself.

Among the rest of the field, D'Antoni was the one who had the best chance to get the, er, strong-willed Kobe Bryant to go along with the program, given the experience the two have had with USA Basketball and their shared bond of quasi-Italianness.

With one exception, obviously: Phil Jackson. Nonetheless, I thought this was the right move based on the information that's out there. No sitting exec is going to willingly cede power, as Jackson apparently wanted, and having him skip road games wasn't going to be practical. One can argue the Lakers should have kept the door open for longer while negotiating with Jackson -- D'Antoni literally wasn't going anywhere, as he's recovering from knee replacement surgery -- but the end-game seemed pretty clear, and hiring Phil under those terms would have been nearly as knee-jerky as firing Brown.

Which leaves us with D'Antoni, and his challenge of managing Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. He had trouble standing up to an iso-happy scorer with a big ego in New York with Carmelo Anthony; how is he going to fare with these two?

It's a fair question; that and doubts about D'Antoni's defensive chops are his two biggest obstacles to success in L.A. Nonetheless, there should be enough touches to go around for everybody, especially once Howard sees how many uncontested dunks Nash can get him. As for the defense, D'Antoni's teams were more "average" than "bad" at this end, but the critique that he's almost entirely focused on the offense from a practice and preparation standpoint has been widespread. With a defensive dominator like Howard, there's no excuse for him not to have a top 10 defense.

D'Antoni's other challenge may be his roster. His later teams in Phoenix succeeded even when there wasn't a ton of shooting on the court -- the frontcourt was Marion-Boris Diaw-Amare Stoudemire -- but they were in the top four in 3-pointers every year. The Lakers' roster just doesn't have that kind of shooting right now.

A few short-term fixes can improve the situation a bit. We'll probably see a lot more of Jodie Meeks, and Antawn Jamison may see more minutes as a floor-spacing 4 rather than a fish-out-of-water 3. We may even see Steve Blake playing off the ball as a 2.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Lakers pursue another wing shooter. They'll probably inquire about Miami's little-used James Jones, a veteran of D'Antoni's system, and kick the tires on guys like Shawne Williams and Raja Bell, if Bell can ever work a buyout with Utah. (Side note: You also gotta think Barbosa is bummed he chose Boston over L.A.)

But in the short-term, D'Antoni may have to play more traditional iso basketball. With Nash out and Blake nursing an abdominal injury, he's left entrusting his precious offense to Chris Duhon and Darius Morris. Egads.

Of course, the short-term isn't what the Lakers are worrying about. (Well, unless it involves Mike Brown). More practically, D'Antoni has 75 games to get his offense humming at the championship-caliber level everyone expected before the season, and to do it with enough defensive integrity that they can, at the very least, make the conference finals. It remains to be seen if he can do that, but from here it seems he has a better chance than just about anyone else.

moullet, Monday, 12 November 2012 18:17 (thirteen years ago)

http://tracking.si.com/2012/11/10/report-phil-jackson-signs-3-year-contract-with-lakers/

frogbs, Monday, 12 November 2012 18:21 (thirteen years ago)

seems legit

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Monday, 12 November 2012 18:24 (thirteen years ago)

Phil wanted a major say in basketball operations and with Jim Buss just recently getting the keys to the car there was no way he was giving that up to his sisters BF.

lol

My heart wanted Phil but head wanted Mike. Both heart and head are mushy sad heaps of tissue tho so...

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 12 November 2012 18:56 (thirteen years ago)

is Jim in love with his sister or what

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 12 November 2012 20:14 (thirteen years ago)


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