yeah, i'm talkin dwight / yeah, i'm talkin steve: 2012-2013 NBA regular season thread (part 1)

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waiters & kyrie both bailed out by varejao suddenly turning into david west but dudes are balling the fuck out

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:53 (thirteen years ago)

so is varejao busting out this season or what

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:53 (thirteen years ago)

his shot looked pure

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:54 (thirteen years ago)

they could also get away with the tristan/andy frontline thanks to deandre jordan's continued presence but watiers and kyrie are mean in crunch time

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:55 (thirteen years ago)

rebounds by game: 23, 5, 17, 15 o_O

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:55 (thirteen years ago)

clippers 101, kyrie/waiters 52 will just about do it

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:56 (thirteen years ago)

Aaron Brooks hit like 4 insane backyard HORSE shots in this game.

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 05:59 (thirteen years ago)

yeah... it was definitely like he was trying to one-up the rest of the chuckers on that team

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:00 (thirteen years ago)

michael beasley is the worst

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:03 (thirteen years ago)

Funny cos all the story lines here in the PHX media were trying to paint him as a changed man, ready to lead and put the past behind him. Got into a grip of arguments with local homers that were buying into it.

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:06 (thirteen years ago)

i said this the other night but the dragic/dudley/scola/dragic quartet is totally on the same wavelength and then there's.... beasley

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:09 (thirteen years ago)

yeah i read that, agree. Saw K3vs points about us (probably me) selling them short too. Maybe not bottom of the barrel bad, but like 24-28 wins imo.

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:18 (thirteen years ago)

haha, ray allen went for a coast-to-coast dunk in this game and got absolutely packed by p.j. tucker

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:21 (thirteen years ago)

gif it, make it the board description, no questions asked.

Clay, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:24 (thirteen years ago)

half the time ray allen shoots a three this year it's essentially a practice shot, it's ridiculous

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:29 (thirteen years ago)

i think rashard lewis has the 2012 "boris diaw award for suddenly caring" already locked up

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 06:31 (thirteen years ago)

he's been in carbonite freeze for the last five years so it wouldn't surprise me if he had a half season of league-average production left in him, esp with a ring on the line

questionable motor (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 12:19 (thirteen years ago)

I love that there is someone named 'waiters' in the nba

think of the nickname possibilities

乒乓, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 14:04 (thirteen years ago)

Michael Lee
‏@MrMichaelLee
Jordan Crawford doesn't have Bieber fever but noticed the "little girls" waiting outside. Asked if they were for him, "Not them young ones."

乒乓, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 14:27 (thirteen years ago)

also how tall is justin bieber

乒乓, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 14:27 (thirteen years ago)

right?

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 14:48 (thirteen years ago)

standing on a segway or something right?

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 15:32 (thirteen years ago)

Is Harden really a No. 1 option?
Beyond his hot start in Houston, Harden excels against elite competition
Updated: November 6, 2012, 11:12 AM ET
By Tom Haberstroh | ESPN Insider

Rick Osentoski/US Presswire
James Harden, now a No. 1 option, is putting up huge numbers for the Rockets.
Should we have seen this coming?

After coming off the bench for the Oklahoma City Thunder and having to share the ball with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, James Harden is flourishing in his role as the Houston Rockets' No. 1 option. He is averaging a staggering 35.3 points per game on 52.9 percent shooting while dishing out 6.3 assists and grabbing 6.3 boards. His player efficiency rating? A sky-high 41.7.

Three games in and everyone wants to know: Is "Beardsanity" a fluke or is it for real?

My answer: Harden has done this before, so we shouldn't be surprised by his dominance. Plus, we've been blinded by our undying reverence for per-game averages and the star talents of Durant and Westbrook.

Harden's average of 16.8 points per game last season doesn't scream "bona fide NBA star," but it also tells us next to nothing about his ability to be a No. 1 option.

Why? First, his scoring average was artificially deflated due to playing time; Harden played only 31.4 minutes per game thanks to Oklahoma City's strategy of bringing him off the bench, which is abnormal for a player of his caliber. For example, Harden's Team USA teammates averaged 36.4 minutes per game last season. Harden is averaging 41.7 minutes per game in his first three contests this season, and we're seeing what he can do when he's treated like a star in the minutes column -- even if his playing time is unsustainably high.

Second, this season, Harden doesn't have to share the ball with two other ball-dominant players. There's no doubt that playing next to Durant and Westbrook can have its legitimate advantages (goodbye, double-teams!), but the hard truth is that sharing the court with those two stars absolutely slaughtered Harden's numbers.

Harden's hidden stats
We hear it all the time: Context is everything. When it comes to the fascinating case of Harden, this axiom nails it on the head. Let's start with a baseline. Harden scored 19.3 points per 36 minutes last season. Not bad. Using NBA.com's advanced stats page, we can see how Harden's numbers change depending on whether Durant or Westbrook was on the court, but not both. That takes some digging inside the incredible StatsCube Excel database.

So how did Harden do when he played with both Durant and Westbrook on the court?

A measly 13.3 points per 36 minutes.

Yes, that's it. You know who scored 13.3 points per 36 minutes last season? Brandon Rush. Further, Harden played next to Westbrook and Durant for the bulk of his playing time -- 60 percent of his overall minutes. And contrary to popular belief, playing the third wheel didn't help his percentages. Harden shot just 46 percent from the floor when the Olympian trio took the court, down from his overall 49 percent.

Let's go deeper inside the numbers.

What about when Harden was the second fiddle? Here, we're talking about two scenarios: First, playing next to Durant without Westbrook; and second, playing next to Westbrook without Durant. If you watched the Thunder last season, you know that the former happened a lot, but the latter didn't. Thunder coach Scott Brooks rarely paired Harden and Westbrook together without Durant there to stabilize the attack.

Layne Murdoch/NBAE via Getty Images
Even with Durant and Westbrook on the Thunder, Harden flashed alpha-dog potential.
So, what was Harden's scoring rate per 36 minutes with just Durant? 22.8 points on 49 percent shooting in 250 minutes. And with just Westbrook? 22.3 points on 55 percent shooting in just 63 minutes, an admittedly very small sample size. The subtraction of one ball-dominant star from the equation added nearly 10 points to Harden's scoring rate. This makes sense, but it's helpful to actually put numbers behind the "sharing the ball" concept.

And now, here comes the juicy part: Examining Harden as the alpha dog, when he was released from the shackles of Durant's and Westbrook's ball-dominance.

What was Harden's scoring rate when he was the clear No. 1 option last season?

Try 32.6 points per 36 minutes.

You read that correctly; when defenses keyed in on Harden as the No. 1 option, Harden responded by scoring like Michael Jordan, and he shot 53 percent from the floor in these situations. Plus, it gets better: Harden dished out 6.2 assists per 36 minutes, up from his normal rate of 4.3 assists. And remember, he was racking up all those assists by feeding the likes of Royal Ivey, Nick Collison and Nazr Mohammed.

To recap: Harden as third wheel -- 13.3 points per 36 minutes; Harden as second fiddle -- about 22.5 points per 36 minutes; and Harden as No. 1 option -- 32.6 points per 36 minutes.

Really an alpha dog?
James Harden per 36 minutes by teammate

Teammate MIN PTS REB AST FG% 3FG% FT% 3PA fga fta
Both 1163 13.3 4.5 3.6 46 39 83 4.6 8.8 4.1
Alone 460 32.6 4.7 6.2 53 39 83 7.1 18.2 13.1
Durant only 250 22.8 5.5 3.6 49 40 96 6.2 13.2 7.6
Westbrook only 63 22.3 4.6 5.1 55 50 81 4.6 11.4 9.1
TOTAL 1936 19.4 4.7 4.3 49 39 85 5.4 11.7 6.9

Alpha dog dominance against all competition
So maybe we shouldn't be surprised to see alpha dog Harden taking over the league. He has already excelled in that role before, but you couldn't see it from the treetops.

Now, I know what you're thinking: Of course he dominated against second units. This seems like a reasonable rebuttal. After all, Harden faced some iffy lineups when he anchored Oklahoma City's second unit. Anyone will look like a superstar when he is going against a team of benchwarmers, right?

Well, what if I told you that he dominated against starter-caliber lineups, too?

This is the most fascinating finding when we put Harden's production under the microscope. Using ESPN.com's 2012 #NBArank feature as a barometer for player quality, every unit that Harden played against was given an average rating based on each player's #NBArank score. (For those who aren't familiar, #NBArank asked more than 100 of our contributors to rank each player on a scale of 1 to 10; LeBron James checked out at 9.9 while Eddy Curry was given a 1.2 score on the bottom end.)

With this tool, we can see how Harden did according to the strength of his opponent. To qualify as a "good" lineup, the unit had to average a 5.0 rating or higher. As expected, the majority of lineups that Harden faced as the alpha dog did not measure up. Of the 460 minutes that Harden starred as the alpha dog, only 106 were against above-average lineups.

Let's peel off another layer and look at Harden's production as a No. 1 option against good lineups.

Somehow, Harden did even better against tougher competition: He scored 35.0 points every 36 minutes and shot 50.8 percent from the floor, including an eye-popping 48 percent from beyond the arc. It's not surprising that Harden took more shots as an alpha dog, but he maintained a stellar efficiency while shouldering the load against quality opponents. That's what makes him a star.

Add all these little fragments up and we see that Harden has a history of thriving as the No. 1 option even against star-studded lineups and those featuring defensive stalwarts like Avery Bradley. That's why it's essential that we consider the context before jumping to conclusions that Harden isn't a star-caliber player because of his lukewarm per-game numbers.

He might not maintain his current torrid scoring pace, but there's a good chance he'll be in the conversation for the scoring title. When the Rockets handed a reserve player an $80 million contract, many thought Harden was nothing more than fool's gold. But more and more, it's looking like the Rockets found a true gem.

GOOD LUCK USA! (lag∞n), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 17:32 (thirteen years ago)

i'm still unconvinced... he did send sam presti an email one time

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 17:37 (thirteen years ago)

If anyone else is curious whether any NBA players are stumping for Mitt today: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/players.html

ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 18:00 (thirteen years ago)

and there's spencer hawes right on cue

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 18:20 (thirteen years ago)

@greivisvasquez about 37 minutes ago
Ice tub

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 18:35 (thirteen years ago)

On this election day, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis reminds you to watch the Flaming Lips documentary from a few years ago

http://www.tedstake.com/2012/11/06/fearless-freaks-2

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 19:10 (thirteen years ago)

dion waiters has a pretty release

speaking of, what's anthony morrow up to these days?

乒乓, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 19:38 (thirteen years ago)

he's on the hawks

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 19:53 (thirteen years ago)

his 3P% has steadily gone down. what's the deal?

乒乓, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 19:56 (thirteen years ago)

The Hawks' decision to add both Korver and Morrow may be the weirdest of the offseason

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 20:14 (thirteen years ago)

can you ever have too much shooting?

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 20:17 (thirteen years ago)

You only need one of those two in your rotation. Both of them is weird.

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 6 November 2012 20:24 (thirteen years ago)

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/11/6/16/anigif_enhanced-buzz-24370-1352236559-2.gif

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 22:08 (thirteen years ago)

wau

all mods con (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 23:02 (thirteen years ago)

He owes his life to Manu imo.

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 6 November 2012 23:12 (thirteen years ago)

Bulls just missed 3 straight FTs at end of game and so didn't get 100 pts. "Fans" went apeshit cause now they won't get a free big mac. I fucking hate those type of promotions. Biggest applause at reg season games are the dunkin donuts characters scoreboard race and for 100 pts. Steve Schanwald should be shot out of a tshirt cannon.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 03:28 (thirteen years ago)

a torrent of boos once Kirk Hinrich (once again, finishing with 24 points, eight assists, and three steals) missed a free throw in the final seconds.

This is because the Bulls, and VP of Business Operations Steve Schanwald, have instituted a promotion that gives a free cheeseburger to ticket-holders if the Bulls score over 100 points.

lol that's from March 2009. Hinrich missed 2 of those 3 FTs tonight.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 03:31 (thirteen years ago)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Evan Turner @thekidet about 14 minutes ago
Lmao I wish I could show a pic of mine and @spencherhawes00 text convo. He's so angry

ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 04:56 (thirteen years ago)

:)

Clay, Wednesday, 7 November 2012 04:57 (thirteen years ago)

DeJuan Blair about 22 minutes ago
I can't wait to hear what Barack SAYS WEN HE GET ON THAT STAGE CUZ IM GOIN CRAZY!!!!!

ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 04:58 (thirteen years ago)

ilh'ers this guy bought rounds of shots at the bar i was at last night, i guess he's from b'more. wonder if he was celebrating a new contract?
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3432/donte-greene

am0n, Wednesday, 7 November 2012 15:34 (thirteen years ago)

granger out at least three months, RIP pacers dynasty

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 15:34 (thirteen years ago)

hope spencer hawes has a terrible game tonight

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 7 November 2012 15:41 (thirteen years ago)

Mark Cuban @mcuban about 47 minutes ago
.@realdonaldtrump I know it was a rough night for u.Want to come out and play and raise some money for $Sandy victims ? #DOGOODFEELGOOD

am0n, Wednesday, 7 November 2012 15:46 (thirteen years ago)

#DOGFOODFEELGOOD

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 15:48 (thirteen years ago)

Metta World Peace @MettaWorldPeace 8 hours ago
Congratulations Joe Biden.... Good run Paul Ryan...

metta2016

am0n, Wednesday, 7 November 2012 15:49 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/KFPEs.png

ball

moullet, Wednesday, 7 November 2012 16:04 (thirteen years ago)

yeah why is harden's PER 26 there but higher other places idgi

all mods con (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 7 November 2012 16:06 (thirteen years ago)


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