understandable
― lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
perry jones is almost 7 feet in shoes? i feel he almost has to be a top 5 pick. you just have to risk it. that's insane.
also tyler zeller is a legit 7 footer 6-11, i think he's really underrated. dude can run for that size and is very skilled.
― J0rdan S., Friday, June 8, 2012 10:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah youve got to think that perrys stock will rise in workouts w/the type of player he is big athletic and all - agree that zeller is underrated
― lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
Scouts split on Perry Jones By Chad Ford
SANTA BARBARA, Calif. -- On Thursday I made the trip up the California coast from Los Angeles to Santa Barbara to take in the BDA sports group workout.
Led by agents Bill Duffy, Kevin Bradbury, Todd Ramasar, Rade Filipovich, Calvin Andrews, David Mondress and Ugo Udezue, BDA has a number of clients in this year's draft training at the University of California at Santa Barbara. On Thursday they invited more than 80 NBA GMs and scouts to witness a three-hour workout of their clients.
I was on hand to both watch the workouts and to talk to the GMs and scouts in attendance.
Here's what I learned:
The two biggest enigmas in the draft are Connecticut Huskies big man Andre Drummond and Baylor Bears forward Perry Jones. I'll see Drummond in New York early next week.Jones was the headline attraction Thursday. Whether his performance answered the questions NBA teams have about him is open to interpretation.
The workout featured Jones as a wing -- a smart move to validate NBA scouts who believe that Jones was miscast as a center in Baylor's offense the past two years. While Jones has the size of an NBA center, he's a perimeter-oriented big man who shies away from contact in the paint. He always looked more comfortable with the ball in his hands facing the basket than he did backing down a defender in the paint.
Thursday's workouts capitalized on Jones' strengths and featured him in a number of drills alongside other wings like the Vanderbilt Commodores' Jeff Taylor and UC Santa Barbara's Orlando Johnson.
Jones wowed early. He's unusually quick and fluid for a player his size. While he's not a lights-out shooter, he's got a nice stroke and knocked down 7-of-15 from NBA 3-point range in one drill. He's also a solid ball handler for his size and looked very comfortable running all the drills on the perimeter.
What was most impressive was his explosiveness in the paint. When Jones hit the lane, he blasted off the ground for a number of thunderous, highlight-reel dunks.
In many ways he reminded me of another unusually big wing -- Paul George. George measured 6-foot-10 in Indiana Pacers training camp and played the 2 and 3 all season for Indiana. Both are excellent athletes who are comfortable putting the ball on the floor and pulling up for jumpers. Both players were accused of not dominating the game during their two seasons in college. George didn't even make first-team All-WAC as a sophomore.
While George's numbers were slightly better across the board, he was allowed to play the wing in college. Jones, on the other hand, played the 4 and 5 the entire season.
After the workout, some things were clear. Others were not.
Jones is going to look terrific in individual workouts. There are very few players in this or any draft who can do the things he does at his size. A team could easily fall in love with his potential and make him a top-5 pick. George fell all the way to No. 10 on draft night and virtually every team that passed on him now regrets it. If we were to do over the 2010 draft today, he'd be the second or third player off the board.
What is less clear is whether a position change will improve Jones' motor and overall mental toughness. He disappeared for long stretches during Baylor's season and shied away from contact. Was Jones just unhappy with his role at Baylor and therefore not as engaged as he could've been? Or is there something deeper in his personality that saps the competitive edge out of him?
In speaking with Jones on Thursday, he's aware of what teams are concerned about and said he's working on improving his mental toughness and body language. He specifically said he's trying to improve his attitude when his shot doesn't fall early.
Jones has excellent athletic ability.As for the GMs in the room? Everyone I spoke with came away with a different opinion. Here were two of the most representative:
"That sort of talent doesn't come along very often," one GM said. "As I was watching the workout, I thought you finally got to see what a freed-up Perry Jones could do if a coach just lets him be himself. He could be a dominant, and I mean dominant, forward with his size, athletic ability and skill set. I think he's a hard worker and will be a much better contributor if you give him the chance to be himself. I'd have no concerns drafting him in the top five. He could be a home run of a pick."
And the other side ...
"Of all the guys that are in your top 10, I'd have the hardest time taking him," another GM said. "I know he wants to be a 3, but I don't think he does anything that we ask our 3s to do that is special. He's not a great shooter. He doesn't have a great handle. He's not an aggressive defender. He's got great size and athleticism, but he's not skilled enough. That means he'll end up being a stretch 4, which is a euphemism for a guy who doesn't have a position.
"Could he be great? Sure. But I think he's a major project and a major risk. There are safer picks in the top 10 with very good upsides. I think there's a good chance that he slides in the draft as people continue to wrestle with who he is."
I wish I could tell you which camp I'm in. Both seem right, paradoxically.
― lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, my first thought was paul george when i saw those measurements. feel like jones has to be in consideration for every pick after anthony davis, tho i'd still take MKG over him.
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 9 June 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
also he was miscast at baylor and scott drew is a terrible, terrible coach
someone is gonna get an absolute steal with white at the end of the first round
― the route is ban (k3vin k.), Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:38 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think he'll go at the end of the lotto in the end.
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 9 June 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
PJ3 has no excuses for how he played at Baylor. He showed zero desire or intensity and that's on him.
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 9 June 2012 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003736036_draft06.html
Durant, who will likely be chosen No. 2 in the June 28 draft by the Sonics, was the only player who could not bench press 185 pounds at least once. His overall performance ranked 78th out of 80 prospects, and his lackluster workout appears to have widened the gap between him and Ohio State center Greg Oden, who had an impressive combine.
― the route is ban (k3vin k.), Sunday, 10 June 2012 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
ha iirc durant said re his bench press 'a basketball doesnt weigh that much'
― lag∞n, Sunday, 10 June 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
any insider wanna put up the chad ford mock draft? I and ILH would be very grateful
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Thursday, 14 June 2012 07:19 (eleven years ago) link
PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS
New Orleans
Anthony Davis
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-11Weight: 222 poundsAge: 19School: KentuckyAnalysis: How hot of a commodity is Davis? As I wrote on Monday, sources said the Cavs offered the Hornets picks 4, 24, 32 and 33 for the No. 1 pick -- a deal the Hornets quickly and firmly declined. Davis is the one player in this draft that a team can immediately build around, so you can expect the Hornets to continue to receive and decline great offers.
Charlotte
Thomas Robinson
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-9Weight: 244 poundsAge: 21School: KansasAnalysis: The Bobcats are actively talking to teams about trading the No. 2 pick. Why? Not only is there no franchise player at No. 2, but I'm told there's a bit of a split right now in Charlotte between taking Robinson or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Sources say Michael Jordan isn't sold on building around the limited offensive arsenal of Kidd-Gilchrist, but the team also has questions about how high Robinson's ceiling is.
I think MKG is the second best prospect in the class, but it's very close between him, Robinson and Bradley Beal. If the Bobcats keep the pick and take Robinson, they'd be getting a super-athletic, physical 4 who should be an instant upgrade over Tyrus Thomas and D.J. White.
Washington
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Position: SFHeight: 6-foot-8Weight: 233 poundsAge: 18School: KentuckyAnalysis: The Wizards are happy at the No. 3 spot and I continue to hear it will come down to Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal. In this mock, both players are still on the board, so the choice is difficult.
Kidd-Gilchrist would give the Wizards some much-needed toughness and defense at the 3, albeit with a less advanced offensive game. Meanwhile, Beal would give them a dominant 2-guard, who can shoot the basketball, to pair with John Wall. I'm still not sure which way they'll go, but either player would be a very good addition to their roster.
Cleveland
Bradley Beal
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-5Weight: 202 poundsAge: 18School: FloridaAnalysis: The Cavs need a wing and like MKG, Beal and Harrison Barnes. Andre Drummond is also in the mix, but the Cavs don't yet have a comfort level with him. If this comes down to Beal or Barnes, I think Beal will have the slight edge here. But it's not a given. The Cavs have been interested in Barnes for the past year and could decide that his size is what they need.
Sacramento
Andre Drummond
Position: CHeight: 7-foot-0 Weight: 279 poundsAge: 18School: UConnAnalysis: Drummond measured out very close to DeMarcus Cousins last weekend at the draft combine. If the Kings draft him, they would suddenly have a massive front line, adding Drummond's athleticism, rebounding and shot-blocking to Cousins' polished offensive game.
The Kings have not shied away in recent years from prioritizing talent over players with question marks; Drummond, who has a questionable motor, has such a high upside, I'm not sure they pass here, either. If they do, however, it's because they fell in love with UNC's John Henson and feel he's more mature and willing to blend.
Portland (via Nets)
Damian Lillard
Position: PGHeight: 6-foot-3Weight: 189 poundsAge: 21School: Weber StateAnalysis: If Drummond falls here, I think they take him. But if he doesn't, I'm hearing Lillard could be the man. He wowed at the draft combine and measured very similar in size and athletic ability to Derrick Rose. While Lillard isn't nearly the same prospect as Rose, the Blazers need a point guard and Lillard has the potential to be very, very good. Taking him at No. 6 is no longer a reach. Harrison Barnes and Jeremy Lamb would also be in the mix here.
Golden State
Harrison Barnes
Position: SFHeight: 6-foot-8Weight: 228 poundsAge: 20School: North CarolinaAnalysis: I think both the Warriors and Barnes' camp, who want Barnes to go to a big market and an up-and-coming team, would do backflips if he slides this far. The team desperately wants to get a great small forward out of this draft and there's a pretty big drop-off after Barnes.
The Warriors worked out both Terrence Jones and Perry Jones on Monday, but weren't blown away with either player. Both are really 4s trying to pass themselves off as 3s. Jared Sullinger is also in the mix here and I'm hearing Moe Harkless is a potential dark horse for this spot, as well.
Toronto
Dion Waiters
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-4Weight: 221 poundsAge: 20School: SyracuseAnalysis: The Raptors adamantly denied they were the team that persuaded Waiters to drop out of the combine with a promise to draft him in the lottery. Given the team's attempts to trade the pick, I sort of believe them. But that won't stop them from drafting Waiters if they keep the pick and he's still on the board.
The Raptors have a roster full of soft jump-shooters. What they really need is a tough player who can get to the basket and get his own shot at the end of games. Someone like Waiters. Damian Lillard and Jeremy Lamb are also possibilities at No. 8.
Detroit
John Henson
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-10Weight: 216 poundsAge: 21School: North CarolinaAnalysis: Greg Monroe has been a revelation in the middle for the Pistons, but they really need to pair him alongside an athletic shot-blocker. Although Henson is painfully thin, he rebounds, blocks shots and defends multiple positions.
It wouldn't be a perfect solution in Detroit, but the Pistons don't have a lot of other options here unless they want to reach a bit for Meyers Leonard who, after his stellar showing at the draft combine, might be worth it.
New Orleans(via Wolves)
Jared Sullinger
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-9Weight: 268 poundsAge: 20School: Ohio StateAnalysis: We've been assuming the Hornets would try to fill their hole at point guard here with a player like Damian Lillard or Kendall Marshall. They may. But the buzz has been around Jared Sullinger's name here. I could see why the Hornets would think that Davis and Sullinger would be an ideal pairing together. They complete each other.
I do, however, wonder whether Sullinger's weak results in the athletic testing portion of the draft combine might change their mind. Sully may be the worst athlete in the draft.
Portland
Jeremy Lamb
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-5Weight: 179 poundsAge: 20School: UConnAnalysis: If the Blazers get Lillard at No. 6, they'll be tempted to reach for a big like Leonard. However, this might also be a great opportunity to fill out their backcourt with another guard.
Lamb has great length for his position, is a smooth athlete and, combined with Lillard, would give the Blazers a powerful scoring punch. Don't count out Austin Rivers and Dion Waiters here, either; I hear Portland's new GM, Neil Olshey, is a fan of both.
Milwaukee
Meyers Leonard
Position: CHeight: 7-foot-1Weight: 250 poundsAge: 20School: IllinoisAnalysis: The Bucks gambled a few years ago on Brandon Jennings and it paid off big time. At this point in the draft, Leonard is risky but could have huge upside. The Bucks really need a center after trading Andrew Bogut to the Warriors at the trade deadline. Leonard is a work in progress, but has the size and athletic ability to be a dominant big man down the road.
Phoenix
Austin Rivers
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-5Weight: 203 poundsAge: 19School: DukeAnalysis: The rumor du jour in Chicago was that the Suns had promised to select Dion Waiters at No. 13. However, if it's true, a promise doesn't guarantee that he'll be there when they're drafting. If he's already off the board, it could come down to Austin Rivers or Terrence Ross.
Rivers didn't play a minute at the combine, but I was told by multiple NBA GMs that he really was impressive in interviews and lessened fears that he could be uncoachable. Ross played and played well, but doesn't have quite the star power that Rivers brings to the table. It could be a tough call, but I hear Phoenix is leaning Rivers' way.
Houston
Tyler Zeller
Position: CHeight: 7-footWeight: 247 poundsAge: 22School: North CarolinaAnalysis: The Rockets' biggest need is in the middle and Zeller should be a solid option. Scouts don't think Zeller is going to be an All-Star someday, but he's big, he runs the floor very well and he has a great touch around the basket. Meyers Leonard has now passed him on our Big Board, but Zeller should ultimately land somewhere between Picks 8 and 14.
Philadelphia
Terrence Jones
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-8Weight: 252 poundsAge: 20School: KentuckyAnalysis: The Sixers might have a tough choice here between Jones, Terrence Ross and Arnett Moultrie. They need size, but also shooting. Jones may be the compromise. He measured out very well for a power forward at the combine, has an NBA body and proved to be a solid rebounder and shot-blocker in college. He has tremendous upside if he puts his heart into it.
Ross, meanwhile, would give the Sixers the starting-caliber sniper that they've long lacked, while Moultrie is a long, bouncy, athletic big man who could stretch the floor for them.
Houston (via Knicks)
Moe Harkless
Position: SFHeight: 6-foot-9Weight: 207 poundsAge: 19School: St. John'sAnalysis: We have the Rockets going safe at No. 14, so I think they can afford to gamble a little at No. 16. Harkless was another high riser at the draft combine. He is a great athlete, has toughness and has tremendous upside.
The Rockets have generally played it safe in the draft the past few years. The upside is that they've gotten solid players. The downside is that they haven't necessarily gotten any elite talent. Harkless could be that guy. Moultrie is another real option for them here.
Dallas
Kendall Marshall
Position: PGHeight: 6-foot-4Weight: 198 poundsAge: 20School: North CarolinaAnalysis: With Jason Kidd 39 and a free agent and Rodrigue Beaubois more of a combo guard, Marshall would bring much of what Kidd brings to the table -- incredible court vision and size -- right away. He's not a great athlete or a great shooter, but he could keep Dirk & Co. happy.
Wolves (via Jazz)
Terrence Ross
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-7Weight: 197 poundsAge: 21School: WashingtonAnalysis: The Timberwolves' biggest need is to put a shooter in the backcourt with Ricky Rubio. Ross is not only a sharpshooter from 3-point land, but he is also a great athlete and has great size for his position. He's a steal at 18.
Orlando
Perry Jones III
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-11Weight: 234 poundsAge: 20School: BaylorAnalysis: This is a long way for Jones to slip in the draft. Many believe he's a top-five talent, but no one knows what position he'll play in the pros. His situation reminds me a lot of the one Josh Smith was in a few years ago. Jones may find a home in the lottery, but if he doesn't he could slide this far. Given Jones' raw talent, he's definitely worth the risk at this point.
Denver
Arnett Moultrie
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-11Weight: 223 poundsAge: 21School: Mississippi StateAnalysis: Moultrie made the head-scratching decision to sit out the draft combine drills. He would've looked great in that setting, but instead saw several players leapfrog him on the draft board. I doubt he slips much past the Nuggets or Celtics, though.
His length, athletic ability and shooting touch should all come in handy in Denver. Kentucky point guard Marquis Teague is also an option here.
Boston
Andrew Nicholson
Position: PFHeight: 6-foot-10Weight: 234 poundsAge: 22School: St. BonaventureAnalysis: Nicholson is another draft sleeper who may really rise with workouts. He's a big stretch 4 who has drawn some comparisons to David West. He would be another welcome addition to the Celtics' summer makeover.
Boston (via Clippers)
Royce White
Position: SFHeight: 6-foot-8Weight: 261 poundsAge: 21School: Iowa StateAnalysis: White may have helped himself as much as anyone in the draft last week. His play on the court was solid, but his interviews were stellar. Most of the NBA executives I spoke with felt that they would be comfortable drafting White somewhere outside the lottery. If the C's can add Nicholson and White -- two value picks this late in the draft -- the rebuild will be well on its way.
Atlanta
Tony Wroten Jr.
Position: PGHeight: 6-foot-6Weight: 203 poundsAge: 18School: WashingtonAnalysis: The Hawks have been cursed at the point guard position ever since they decided to pass on Chris Paul to draft Marvin Williams. Wroten is no Paul, but he may have the most raw talent of any point guard in the draft. He's big, he's athletic and he can get to the basket. If his shot wasn't broken, and if he had a better rep as a teammate, he'd be a top-10 pick.
Cavs (via Lakers)
Fab Melo
Position: CHeight: 7-footWeight: 255 poundsAge: 22School: SyracuseAnalysis: The Cavs could really use more help at the 5. Anderson Varejao is around for a few more years but after that the cupboard is bare. Melo might need a few years anyway before he's ready to be a serious contributor at the next level.
Memphis
Evan Fournier
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-7Weight: 206 poundsAge: 19School: FranceAnalysis: I'm hearing the Grizzlies are looking to stash a player over in Europe this year. Fournier, a scoring wing from France, is the best European prospect on the board.
Indiana
Marquis Teague
Position: PGHeight: 6-foot-2Weight: 180 poundsAge: 19School: KentuckyAnalysis: Teague would've been a top-10 pick had he decided to stay in school. Instead he followed the rest of Kentucky's stars into the draft. He could go as high as the mid-first round but I doubt he slips past the Pacers here. Adding Teague would allow them to use Darren Collison as trade bait this summer.
Miami
Draymond Green
Position: SFHeight: 6-foot-8Weight: 236 poundsAge: 22School: Michigan StateAnalysis: The Heat need players with experience who excel in bringing out the best in their teammates. Green can be a point-forward type who does a little of everything. Think of him as a better-passing Udonis Haslem.
Oklahoma City
Jeff Taylor
Position: SFHeight: 6-foot-7Weight: 212 poundsAge: 23School: VanderbiltAnalysis: An elite athlete, Taylor can be a lockdown defender and has range on his jumper. He's probably undervalued at this point, but that happens to seniors. The Thunder will capitalize.
Chicago
John Jenkins
Position: SGHeight: 6-foot-4Weight: 212 poundsAge: 21School: VanderbiltAnalysis: The Bulls need a shooter and Jenkins has one of the best strokes in the draft. His super-quick release and ability to finish at the basket make him an interesting prospect here.
Golden State(via Spurs)
Festus Ezeli
Position: CHeight: 7-foot-0Weight: 264 poundsAge: 22School: VanderbiltAnalysis: If the Warriors can nail down the small forward spot earlier in the draft, don't be surprised if they go big with their second pick. Ezeli has the size and experience to come in and be a solid backup. I'm told Norfolk State's Kyle O'Quinn is also an option here.
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
Can anyone who watched Syracuse this year tell me anything about fab melo? Can't tell if he's a Dan Gadzuric type of guy or what
― Moreno, Thursday, 14 June 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
If that mock draft plays out as ford foresees I will be both shocked and extremely impressed. After Davis at #1, the picture gets very muddy very quickly. But it is a fun exercise all the same and just as much a requirement for a hoops columnist as the end of the year top ten list for a movie critic, so I can hardly blame him for trying.
― Aimless, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:26 (eleven years ago) link
royce is amazing and i hope he's matured but he was a colossal fuckup in minnesota. lots of questions marks.
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
garnett, bass/nicholson, pierce/white, bradley/allen & rondo: that's the plan?
― moullet, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
hahahaha reading this mock i realized knicks doesnt have a pick at all
― moullet, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
fab melo is a def-minded C who doesn't do well at school
hes like.... stiemsma! (?)
― moullet, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/
Another mock draft...
― polyphonic, Thursday, 14 June 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
ha http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8K-EKA_vwOU
― moullet, Thursday, 14 June 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
can he do that in a game tho ?
nice unguarded jumper awesome
― moullet, Thursday, 14 June 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
dude looks awful handling the ball. he'd turn it over 50,000 times in the nba.
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 June 2012 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/y-sports-draftexpress-2012-nba-mock-draft-no-235200883--nba.html;_ylt=Av3BqzBFh0N3HREV6xyW.zu8vLYF
Givony writes at a 9th grade level.
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
"7-footer Meyers Leonard has a terrific combination of size and athleticism, and huge upside to continue to develop. Him and Tyler Zeller are the early favorites here."
oh dear
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
i find it kind of baffling that sullinger is gonna be picked in the top 10.
― Moreno, Saturday, 16 June 2012 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
ohio state has quite the streak of overdrafted busts going
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
sullinger is so awful
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 16 June 2012 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
Withey's total demolition of Sullinger is hard to forget
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
you really can't be that unathletic & successful in the nba
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 16 June 2012 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
he's just not great enough at anything to overcome his physical limitations imo. Kevin Love is athletically limited but he's a rebounding genius. Also I feel like he scores too much by bullying people which won't work in the NBA.
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 01:13 (eleven years ago) link
also he's a star in college & gets ton of calls. that's not gonna happen in college.
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 16 June 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
uh, the nba*
guys I like: White, Harkless, Zller
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
is davis going to play center in the league? seems like he's big enough now that there are exactly two (2) centers of actual size to worry about between bynum and howard
thanks for the display name chad ford
― questionable motor (agent hibachi), Saturday, 16 June 2012 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
sullenger is gonna be trash in the nba and i predict d-leagueing it most of his rookie year
― questionable motor (agent hibachi), Saturday, 16 June 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
I think Davis is so versatile that you can even play him some at SF if you want. Just depends on your roster. Since NOH still has Okafor I'd imagine Davis mostly plays PF.
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/601162_355283094542125_752696048_n.jpg
^^credit to Turbozone
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 16 June 2012 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
Since NOH still has Okafor I'd imagine Davis mostly plays PF.
I'd like to see Ayon and Davis play together.
― polyphonic, Sunday, 17 June 2012 06:51 (eleven years ago) link
i forgot okafor ended up in noh since he really didn't play this year (btw my fantasy team says fuck u emeka) but i'm not sure that really factors in much once games start happening and okafor inevitably gets injured
ayon-davis is more intriguing to me
― questionable motor (agent hibachi), Sunday, 17 June 2012 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
on the draft lottery show they put up NOH's roster and left off Okafor
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 17 June 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
Sullinger's athletic testing positively Sweetney-esque
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 17 June 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
if the warriors take sullinger, like some mocks have them doing, i may actually die of laughter
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 17 June 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know what the fuck Draftexpress is thinking mocking Sullinger to the Warriors. How does that make any sense?
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 17 June 2012 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know but i hope it happens
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 17 June 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
Since yaller talking about my Dubs, do we still owe the Jazz a pick in later years, or is Utah completely out of luck now we're #7?
― Moves Like Zappa (Leee), Sunday, 17 June 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
later years, i think
― polyphonic, Sunday, 17 June 2012 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
it's top 6 protected next year.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 17 June 2012 23:21 (eleven years ago) link
actually kind of a mixed bag for Utah since this year's draft is mediocre
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 17 June 2012 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
http://82games.com/bestdraftingteams.htm
― lamborghini persie (J0rdan S.), Monday, 18 June 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
rap game draft rater
It's possible that mere moments after David Stern hands off the Larry O'Brien Trophy to Micky Arison or Clay Bennett that he will be in Newark, N.J., announcing that the New Orleans Hornets are on the clock. The Finals are slated to end June 26 (or really, the morning of June 27 if you factor in the ceremony, the interviews, the analysis and all the responsibilities of the players and the league), and the NBA draft is on June 28.
This is why we need to interrupt this riveting NBA Finals for a moment to talk about a bunch of 19-year-olds who have never played a professional game before.
That's right: It's Draft Rater time. I've developed a tool that analyzes college stats to predict NBA performance and have refined it over the past several years. It's something we can use to help identify draft steals and busts.
To review, last season was a pretty good one for the Rater. The 2011 pick with the top chance of success (Kyrie Irving) won Rookie of the Year, three other players it rated highly (Kawhi Leonard, Jon Leuer and Nikola Vucevic) provided great value for their draft position, and long-time favorite Daniel Green emerged as a starter on the West's best regular-season team.
Meanwhile, the Rater was down on Jan Vesely, Josh Selby and Jimmer Fredette. The biggest whiff was on MarShon Brooks, whom it rated as a late second-rounder but was a solid late first-round pick by the Nets. The others were players nobody else rated highly either; Isaiah Thomas, for instance, was No. 57 on my board. It was probably too optimistic about Tristan Thompson as well; he had the highest raw rating of any player but struggled at times as a rookie.
I made a few minor tweaks compared to a year ago -- most notably, I ditched the "Howland" variable, even though it was statistically significant, because it felt like an "overfit" (fitting the model to past results that may not necessarily be predictive) and I had enough significant variables without it. Otherwise, it's basically same as it ever was -- a giant regression model that gets incrementally smarter as we fill it with more data each year and one that I've segmented by position. It's still less predictive with one-and-done players, whom it sees less of statistically before they turn pro, and it's not perfect -- we're trying to project what 19-year-olds will be like at 25, a profoundly inexact science.
Nonetheless, let's zoom back out to the big picture and go through the results from this year's Draft Rater, because I think you'll see that a few points remain paramount.
1. Anthony Davis is obviously the best player
Good thing we came up with this neat model, because I don't know how we could have discerned this information otherwise. Yes, this is a one-star draft. Davis blew up my Draft Rater, as expected, but just as notable is the huge gap between him and the next place on the list.
Davis rates several points ahead of every other player on the board. In fact, the difference between Davis and the No. 2-rated player, Jared Sullinger, is greater than the gap between Sullinger and No. 16 Bradley Beal. And Sullinger's rating comes with asterisks that don't afflict Davis.
2. Remember, we're projecting PER
This gets extremely important when you look at the next few players that Draft Rater highlights and when you look back at some of the players Draft Rater has fawned over mistakenly in recent seasons. In each, you'll notice a huge propensity toward defensively lacking power forwards -- players like Michael Beasley, Charlie Villanueva and Tyrus Thomas, who had some of the best marks in recent seasons.
That's not a failure of Draft Rater as much as a failure of what I've asked it to do: project NBA PER from college stats. It did that; Beasley, Villanueva and Thomas all have excellent career PER marks. They just aren't very good in spite of those numbers due to their defensive shortcomings and questions about their fit in the team concept.
So let's take a closer look at two relatively short, stocky power forwards who are among the next names on the list: Sullinger and Draymond Green. Will these guys put up numbers? Very likely. Will they be able to guard their position? That is a much more open question and why they won't go as highly as Draft Rater places them. Green, in particular, is a massive defensive question mark.
This applies to a lesser extent to the next several players. Terrence Jones and Royce White, who also has anxiety issues that may affect his draft position, are much more offensive players who are an inch short for the power forward spot, and Furkan Aldemir of Turkey -- who rates as a mid-first-rounder although he probably won't be taken until the middle of the second round -- has defensive shortcomings too.
At least that makes it easy to pick out the second-best big man this year: Thomas Robinson of Kansas, who has no such defensive shortcomings and should be able to score effectively with his athleticism around the rim.
Also warranting looks later in the lottery are two project-level bigs with more upside, especially at the defensive end: Andre Drummond and John Henson. Henson has a slightly higher rating, but as a 7-foot center, Drummond is virtually certain to be the higher pick.
Finally, a sleeper among bigs is Henry Sims of Georgetown. He is not a great athlete and will struggle defensively, but he is a high skill guy who could be a second-round steal.
Bigs: The BestName College/Country RatingAnthony Davis Kentucky 22.23Jared Sullinger Ohio State 16.86Thomas Robinson Kansas 15.20Draymond Green Michigan State 14.84Terrence Jones Kentucky 14.28Royce White Iowa State 14.07Furkan Aldemir Turkey 12.87John Henson North Carolina 12.11Andre Drummond Connecticut 12.05Henry Sims Georgetown 10.38
3. High-rated wings usually deliver
As I noted with Leonard a year ago, wing players -- especially bigger ones -- with strong Draft Rater marks virtually never fail. Of the eight players to rate above 13 in the past decade, the worst among them was Josh Childress. Five of the players have played in an All-Star Game, and Rudy Gay may play in an All-Star Game soon. The seventh player is Leonard.
This year, we have two names to add to that list: Dion Waiters and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Kidd-Gilchrist is probably the safest pick on the board -- a big wing who plays defense, has strong stats and comes with no character questions. From a risk-aversion perspective alone he should be a top-five pick; I have him third on my board after Robinson. (See below for how I would rank the prospects, regardless of their Draft Rater numbers.)
I have Waiters fourth for similar reasons. His size, 6-foot-4, is more of a concern, but whatever team made him a promise did a wise thing. Waiters projects as the best small wing since Dwyane Wade, and he'd be a steal if somebody got him in the Nos. 8-10 range currently being discussed.
The other wing everybody is sleeping on is Quincy Miller of Baylor, who put up a strong mark despite coming off an ACL injury. He has more questions marks because of the knee and his bony build, but he is long and can score. The stories of him slipping have me baffled, because he rates as a top-10 pick.
Two other wings who will be drafted highly don't rate as strongly: Beal and Harrison Barnes. Most players in their range turn out to be solid, but this part of the pool doesn't produce many stars. I'd be more comfortable taking these two in the later part of the lottery.
Doronand Jeremy Lamb added to the perpetual confusion between the two by posting virtually the same rating, although this may be the only one that had Doron rated higher. Jeremy is likely to go 15 picks sooner given his higher ceiling, but Doron could be a great pickup in the late first or early second round as a Courtney Lee clone who hits 3s and defends.
The other wing worth a first-round look is Memphis' Will Barton, whom most have slotted as a second-rounder and who rates as a nice sleeper.
Perimeter Players: The BestName College/Country RatingDion Waiters Syracuse 14.12Kendall Marshall North Carolina 13.84Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Kentucky 13.58Marquis Teague Kentucky 13.18Quincy Miller Baylor 12.94Tony Wroten Washington 12.21Bradley Beal Florida 11.65Kostas Sloukas Greece 11.51Harrison Barnes North Carolina 11.11Will Barton Memphis 10.90Doron Lamb Kentucky 10.65Jeremy Lamb Connecticut 10.50
4. The point guard conundrum
Point guard is the hardest position to draft because so much depends on improvement once the player turns pro. Unless it's an overwhelming talent such as Chris Paul or Irving, the smarter play is usually to draft this position late and hope for the best.
This year, several point guards rate as first-round talents, and there is little to separate them. North Carolina's Kendall Marshall is the highest rated of the bunch and the safest pick, but he offers the least upside. Often compared to Mark Jackson because of his size, acumen and lack of athleticism, he is a solid mid-first-round pick. A poor man's version of Marshall might be Kostas Sloukas of Greece, who has solid translated Euroleague stats but will be a late second-rounder if he's drafted at all because of his questionable athleticism.
On the other hand, Marquis Teague of Kentucky and Tony Wroten of Washington have talent to spare and star upside. The question is whether each can harness it. Teague was plagued by turnovers, especially early in the year, but he is an athletic scoring point guard in the mold of his older brother, the Atlanta Hawks' Jeff Teague. Wroten, meanwhile, is enormous for a point guard (6-6) and can really see the floor, but he can't shoot and has lots of character questions.
Among Marshall, Wroten and Teague, it really is dealer's choice as to how much risk you're willing to take on for the reward. By the mid-first round I start liking Wroten's star potential quite a bit, but others may wish to play it more safely.
5. The rest of the bigs
In the tail end of the first round and throughout the second, we're sorting through several big men with fairly weak Draft Rater résumés. The Rater is a particularly harsh judge at the center position, where it frowns on the prospects of four centers with first-round aspirations -- Tyler Zeller, Meyers Leonard, Fab Melo and Festus Ezeli -- and flat-out mocks Miles Plumlee, who is off-the-charts bad with a 2.49 Draft Rater projection.
Plumlee aside, the other four are probably worthy of late first-round picks despite any misgivings, simply because size is such a rare commodity. Even if they can become just decent backup centers, taking them low in the first round makes sense. Two other 7-footers, Garrett Stutz of Wichita State and Robert Sacre of Gonzaga, shape up as solid second-rounders if we apply similar reasoning.
At the power forward spot, Perry Jones III is rated several notches lower than most, while two other likely first-rounders, Andrew Nicholson and Arnett Moultrie, rate as second-round picks. Also of note is Croatian forward Leon Radosevic as a decent second-round value play.
Bigs: The RestName College/Country RatingPerry Jones III Baylor 8.77Leon Radosevic Croatia 8.77JaMychal Green Alabama 8.73Drew Gordon New Mexico 8.39Tyler Zeller North Carolina 8.23Andrew Nicholson St. Bonaventure 8.22Quincy Acy Baylor 8.16Fab Melo Syracuse 7.73Garrett Stutz Wichita State 7.68Mike Scott Virginia 7.50Robert Sacre Gonzaga 7.37Cameron Moore UAB 7.03Meyers Leonard Illinois 7.02Mitchell Watt Buffalo 6.77Festus Ezeli Vanderbilt 6.54Arnett Moultrie Mississippi State 6.42
6. Potential perimeter busts
One player that Draft Rater isn't crazy about is Damian Lillard of Weber State, who compiled strong numbers but did so against a weak schedule and is much older than most of the prospects at his position. He not only failed to outrank the top point guards above but also rates behind the less-heralded Tyshawn Taylor of Kansas. No. 6 clearly seems a stretch for Lillard, who looks more like a mid-to-late first-rounder in this analysis.
On the wings, a few potential first-rounders also fare poorly. Moe Harkless of St. John's had one of the worst ratings of any first-round prospect. While the error rate on one-and-done players has been higher, the difference between Harkless and the other lottery candidates is well outside the standard error of the Rater.
In addition to Harkless, first-round prospects John Jenkins and Jeffery Taylor of Vanderbilt fared poorly. Another first-round prospect from overseas, Evan Fournier of France, didn't play in the Euroleague this year and thus has no projection. Subjectively, I'm not sold on him -- he's basically a slashing scorer who isn't athletic enough to score that way in the NBA -- but he at least has the benefit of being only 19.
One player gathering momentum is Kostas Papanikolaou of Greece, who shapes up as a solid second-round stash pick. Two other wing prospects -- Austin Rivers and Terrence Ross -- shape up about where we'd expect as mid-to-late first rounders, but after those two, the pool thins out quickly.
A final sleeper to watch is Maryland point guard Terrell Stoglin, another guy who would make a great second-rounder.
Perimeter Players: The RestName College/Country RatingTyshawn Taylor Kansas 10.19Austin Rivers Duke 9.85Terrell Stoglin Maryland 9.82Damian Lillard Weber State 9.75Kostas Papanikolaou Greece 9.26Terrence Ross Washington 9.12Elias Harris Gonzaga 8.64William Buford Ohio State 8.58J'Covan Brown Texas 8.49Jordan Taylor Wisconsin 8.19Reggie Hamilton Oakland 8.18Maalik Wayns Villanova 8.02Hollis Thompson Georgetown 8.01Tony Mitchell Alabama 7.91Jae Crowder Marquette 7.90Jared Cunningham Oregon State 7.76John Jenkins Vanderbilt 7.76Khris Middleton Texas A&M 7.68Scott Machado Iona 7.57Tornike Shengelia Republic of Georgia 7.33Moe Harkless St. John's 7.15Tu Holloway Xavier 7.14Orlando Johnson UC Santa Barbara 7.11Darius Miller Kentucky 6.65Jeffery Taylor Vanderbilt 6.59
7. Making my board
Knowing everything we know, here is how my board looks heading into draft day. This is taking into account everything from the Draft Rater as well as what we know about the players' red flags, defensive pluses and minuses and one or two subjective calls:
1. Anthony Davis2. Thomas Robinson3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist4. Dion Waiters5. Andre Drummond
6. Quincy Miller7. Jared Sullinger8. Terrence Jones9. John Henson10. Royce White
11. Bradley Beal12. Harrison Barnes13. Tony Wroten14. Kendall Marshall15. Marquis Teague
16. Draymond Green17. Jeremy Lamb18. Damian Lillard19. Austin Rivers20. Doron Lamb
21. Furkan Aldemir22. Will Barton23. Tyler Zeller24. Evan Fournier25. Tyshawn Taylor
26. Meyers Leonard27. Terrence Ross28. Perry Jones29. Festus Ezeli30. Fab Melo
31. Kostas Sloukas32. Henry Sims33. Terrell Stoglin34. Kostas Papanikolaou35. Moe Harkless
36. Leon Radosevic37. JaMychal Green38. Andrew Nicholson39. Drew Gordon40. Garrett Stutz
41. Robert Sacre42. Arnett Moultrie43. Elias Harris44. William Buford45. Jae Crowder
46. Jared Cunningham47. Jordan Taylor48. John Jenkins49. Orlando Johnson50. Jeffrey Taylor
51. Quincy Acy52. Maalik Wayns53. Tornike Shengelia54. Scott Machado55. Mike Scott
56. J'Covan Brown57. Reggie Hamilton58. Khris Middleton59. Tony Mitchell60. Miles Plumlee
― J0rdan S., Monday, 18 June 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link