Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (seven years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (seven years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (seven years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (seven years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (seven years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (seven years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (seven years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (seven years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (seven years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (seven years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (seven years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (seven years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (seven years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (seven years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (seven years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taPuNAaMZ5w

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (seven years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (seven years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (seven years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszjSeK_F5Q&feature=related

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (seven years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (seven years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (seven years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (seven years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (seven years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

http://images.wikia.com/logopedia/images/6/63/Bobs1.jpg

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (seven years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (seven years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (seven years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

i think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the makeup of reddit if you're comparing it to a niche imageboard populated entirely by extremists

ciderpress, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 21:09 (three months ago) Permalink

1) a lot of people cared

2) reddit and 8chan are not even remotely similar

3) in before "wow you really know a lot about paedo/creepshot hubs frobgs"

frogbs, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 21:11 (three months ago) Permalink

guys he's trolling he already knows the answer to his question

Mordy, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 21:13 (three months ago) Permalink

write a letter to the editor you bluehairs

if this is a simulation.. i gotta say, it's a pretty good simulation! (esby), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 21:16 (three months ago) Permalink

yes, 8chan is ... nothing ... like the place where modern MRA culture and terms like "red pill" were incubated.

ebro the letter (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 21:59 (three months ago) Permalink

Does 8chan feature a subforum devoted to Contrapoints?

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:38 (three months ago) Permalink

was sleater-kinney trying to increase their brand awareness with people who post on The_Donald?

ciderpress, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:48 (three months ago) Permalink

4chan had way more to do with that than reddit

8chan is literally just the shit that gets you kicked off other sites

not gonna be capn-save-a-reddit cuz that site is a cesspool in its own way but there's a pretty distinct difference there. Reddit is huge.

frogbs, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:54 (three months ago) Permalink

it's like comparing the Bronx to a single serial killer's murder dungeon in Flushing or something

i'm sure the comparison was made in good faith tho lol

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:57 (three months ago) Permalink

please note that i ahve no idea what flushing is, i just heard it once, no offense to flushing, i'm sure you don't have any serial killer murder dungeons

point is, yeah, people get killed in both, but one's like... all about it

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 22:59 (three months ago) Permalink

the bronx is not "all about" murder what the fuck kind of thing is that to say?

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 23:05 (three months ago) Permalink

awww beans misunderstood on the internet again

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Tuesday, 26 February 2019 23:05 (three months ago) Permalink

lol at will getting a hotter reply from tres misunderstanding his analogy than whiney did from his artisanal provocation why even bother trolling if this is the way things are

Mordy, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 23:08 (three months ago) Permalink

Oh sorry i thought 4chan was the bronx here, not the dungeon. My bad

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 23:09 (three months ago) Permalink

I thought reddit was flushing and the dungeon was the bad subreddits

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 23:09 (three months ago) Permalink

There was no infographic

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 26 February 2019 23:13 (three months ago) Permalink

is flushing in "brownstone brooklyn"

does anyone remember that argument

me neither

moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 00:21 (three months ago) Permalink

Flushing is where the mets play

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 00:28 (three months ago) Permalink

flushing is where the joker hides out in mask of the phantasm

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 00:38 (three months ago) Permalink

^ best Batman movie btw.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 00:51 (three months ago) Permalink

you’re all wrong, flushing is where fran drescher was working in a bridal shop until her boyfriend kicked her out in one of those crushing scenes

Dan I., Wednesday, 27 February 2019 00:57 (three months ago) Permalink

Why did no one care when like, Obama and Sleater-Kinney were doing AMAs on paedo/creepshot hub Reddit

― ebro the letter (Whiney G. Weingarten)

love when whiney starts up on his "all geeks are pedophiles" high horse

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 01:12 (three months ago) Permalink

"actually we're ephebophiles"

ebro the letter (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 01:57 (three months ago) Permalink

in one of those crushing scenes

hey now this isn't 8chan

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 01:58 (three months ago) Permalink

"actually we're ephebophiles"

― ebro the letter (Whiney G. Weingarten)

i'm turned on by absurd overgeneralizations

you're making me so hot right now

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 02:11 (three months ago) Permalink

take the L whiney

frogbs, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 02:56 (three months ago) Permalink

hahaha oh shit i didnt realize you legitimately didnt get my bad metaphor

it was a pretty poorly laid out metaphor i guess. for posterity reddit is a city and 8chan is a tiny bad room where ghosts live

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 06:07 (three months ago) Permalink

L is down on weekends

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 15:45 (three months ago) Permalink

My fault will. I should have known you weren’t saying that the historically black and latino bronx was like 8chan and the majority asian flushing was like reddit, even if there are a few dungeons here and there, because tjat would have been super racist and out of character.

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 15:51 (three months ago) Permalink

And not related to the general discussion

Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 15:52 (three months ago) Permalink

i know so little about nyc that i didn't even know flushing was historically asian/that the bronx was historically black/latino! i just picked "place that is big, i think" and "place that has a funny name like toilets"

also is it weird that i'm happy that you thought this was "out of character" for me because that means i, uh, have posted enough on these boards in 12 years to have a character now? i mean, i'm also happy that you don't think i'm racist. but that was the second thing i was glad about and that is definitely weird

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 16:55 (three months ago) Permalink

As a bottom-tier ilxor I envy Will’s reputation.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 17:20 (three months ago) Permalink

to me you are a tier 1 ilx operator leee

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 18:35 (three months ago) Permalink

Aww thanks, u r 2kind!

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:07 (three months ago) Permalink

I owe Leee a great debt for taking over the rollout of my animation poll, I'm pro-Leee. Will M. also a hero for being the coint+plick steward.

moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:11 (three months ago) Permalink

Wow, that was 6 years ago! Just helping out with something you kicked off.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:30 (three months ago) Permalink

leee also did the star trek poll which makes them elite tier

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:33 (three months ago) Permalink

I did the Trek poll just for the thread title tbh.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 20:37 (three months ago) Permalink

Anything I should be searching for in particular?

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:26 (three months ago) Permalink

seems to be a lot of whining about the lack of gruff white male protagonists in video games

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:29 (three months ago) Permalink

Yes, it's the "the reviewer is the real racist" talk.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:31 (three months ago) Permalink

xp I'm not seeing that? Or rather, I'm seeing a lot of that, but a lot more of people pointing out that it's a dumb generic cliche - it gives me a little hope tbh.

Leee yeah but that particular line gets shouted down over the rest of the thread.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:34 (three months ago) Permalink

Does it? I didn't read closely enough before my rising BP/eye twitch made me close the thread.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 6 March 2019 21:03 (three months ago) Permalink

there's some turds in there but not above normal internet discourse levels

ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 21:05 (three months ago) Permalink

https://kotaku.com/valve-removes-rape-day-from-steam-with-vague-nonsensic-1833104632

the game was listed on steam but not yet available to buy, has now been taken down by steam

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:25 (three months ago) Permalink

is it valve's lack of corporate structure that makes it so no one there can ever make the call on whether steam is a normal moderated storefront or a libertarian madhouse? this is like the 20th story on them waffling about allowing or removing problematic content in the past half year

ciderpress, Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:31 (three months ago) Permalink

seems like they just let whatever go on there and then when complaints come in they take action, which doesn't seem like a super robust system

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:32 (three months ago) Permalink

its gone the other way too, they decided to crack down on anime porn games a couple times and then backpedaled when the usual suspects got mad

ciderpress, Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:36 (three months ago) Permalink


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