Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (seven years ago) link

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (seven years ago) link

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (seven years ago) link

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (seven years ago) link

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (seven years ago) link

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (seven years ago) link

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (seven years ago) link

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (seven years ago) link

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (seven years ago) link

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (seven years ago) link

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (seven years ago) link

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (seven years ago) link

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (seven years ago) link

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (seven years ago) link

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (seven years ago) link

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (seven years ago) link

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (seven years ago) link

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (seven years ago) link

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (seven years ago) link

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (seven years ago) link

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (seven years ago) link

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taPuNAaMZ5w

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (seven years ago) link

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (seven years ago) link

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (seven years ago) link

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (seven years ago) link

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (seven years ago) link

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (seven years ago) link

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (seven years ago) link

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (seven years ago) link

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (seven years ago) link

haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7jF8_badV4

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (seven years ago) link

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (seven years ago) link

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (seven years ago) link

the Mario Kart one is also insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszjSeK_F5Q&feature=related

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (seven years ago) link

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (seven years ago) link

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (seven years ago) link

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (seven years ago) link

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (seven years ago) link

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (seven years ago) link

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (seven years ago) link

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (seven years ago) link

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (seven years ago) link

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (seven years ago) link

http://images.wikia.com/logopedia/images/6/63/Bobs1.jpg

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (seven years ago) link

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (seven years ago) link

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (seven years ago) link

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (seven years ago) link

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (seven years ago) link

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (seven years ago) link

leee also did the star trek poll which makes them elite tier

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:33 (nine months ago) link

I did the Trek poll just for the thread title tbh.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 20:37 (nine months ago) link

Anything I should be searching for in particular?

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:26 (nine months ago) link

seems to be a lot of whining about the lack of gruff white male protagonists in video games

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:29 (nine months ago) link

Yes, it's the "the reviewer is the real racist" talk.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:31 (nine months ago) link

xp I'm not seeing that? Or rather, I'm seeing a lot of that, but a lot more of people pointing out that it's a dumb generic cliche - it gives me a little hope tbh.

Leee yeah but that particular line gets shouted down over the rest of the thread.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 20:34 (nine months ago) link

Does it? I didn't read closely enough before my rising BP/eye twitch made me close the thread.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Wednesday, 6 March 2019 21:03 (nine months ago) link

there's some turds in there but not above normal internet discourse levels

ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 21:05 (nine months ago) link

https://kotaku.com/valve-removes-rape-day-from-steam-with-vague-nonsensic-1833104632

the game was listed on steam but not yet available to buy, has now been taken down by steam

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:25 (nine months ago) link

is it valve's lack of corporate structure that makes it so no one there can ever make the call on whether steam is a normal moderated storefront or a libertarian madhouse? this is like the 20th story on them waffling about allowing or removing problematic content in the past half year

ciderpress, Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:31 (nine months ago) link

seems like they just let whatever go on there and then when complaints come in they take action, which doesn't seem like a super robust system

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:32 (nine months ago) link

its gone the other way too, they decided to crack down on anime porn games a couple times and then backpedaled when the usual suspects got mad

ciderpress, Thursday, 7 March 2019 00:36 (nine months ago) link

five months pass...

So, last week Zoe Quinn was one of a group of developers who had tweeted about allegations of abuse in the video game industry (new ones, for them).

https://www.comicsbeat.com/zoe-quinn-alec-holowka-sexual-abuse/

Yesterday, the person they accused apparently committed suicide.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/01/night-woods-developer-alec-holowka-dies-10665276/

Prepare for a second wave of Gamergate, probably.

☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 1 September 2019 13:01 (three months ago) link

Nah, guy was a self-declared feminist. I saw someone point out the irony that a lot of gamergaters all of a sudden were using Zoe and taking her at her word, after her being their biggest enemy for years.

Frederik B, Sunday, 1 September 2019 13:22 (three months ago) link

Do you have any evidence at all of Gamergaters taking her at her world, Fred?

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 1 September 2019 14:16 (three months ago) link

*word

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 1 September 2019 14:17 (three months ago) link

uh yeah Fred you might want to search the Twitter hashtag

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 1 September 2019 14:30 (three months ago) link

particularly #ZoeQuinnBodycount

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 1 September 2019 14:33 (three months ago) link

If the last outbreak of gamergate was based on nothing whatsoever (it was) then I fear for what they might be able to inflict with this new ammunition, even if it means lying about everything (it always does)

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 1 September 2019 14:43 (three months ago) link

The allegations covered a few people - the composer Jeremy Soule was also one of them - which is to say that they were unrelated but the release of some of them caused/inspired the release of others - games has never really had a #MeToo, but this might have (or still might) be the start of one.

On the other hand (gestures at the thread title, gestures at the thread)

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 1 September 2019 15:02 (three months ago) link

this is all quite depressing, the alleged abuse, the suicide, the renewal of a horrible and pointless war and resumption of belittling the very concept of women who [play games|think about games|are nerds|are online|want to be thought of as basically human]

I hadn't heard of NitW until this summer when I randomly stumbled across it and it seemed v amazingly my thing and it was in the Steam sale so I bought it, but still haven't played it

I kind of... don't know if I want to now, or what to do with this new information as I play it?

a passing spacecadet, Sunday, 1 September 2019 15:10 (three months ago) link

Night in the Woods is a good game and its narrative content is almost entirely the contribution of its other developers.

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 1 September 2019 18:11 (three months ago) link

Just an FYI (and I only discovered this recently) is that Zoe Quinn's preferred pronoun is they/their.

I played Night in the Woods but never finished it because of lack of interest. Don't know if I can, now.

Melon Musk (Leee), Sunday, 1 September 2019 19:26 (three months ago) link

I'm very sad for the new wave of abuse and shit that Zoe is almost certainly going through right now.

I'm also not really surprised. This is what abusers and their support network do to people who call them out on their abuse. It does seem like in some way that abusers get so stuck in that paradigm that it's all they fucking know how to do.

Are we supposed to believe that Gamergaters have been kind, respectful, considerate up to now, and it is only at this point where they are shocked to a point where they will really take off the gloves? I'm sure there's some gentleman with a fedora seriously making that claim right now. There's so much rejection of, I don't know, empathy, kindness, any sense that any abuser might in any way be responsible for their own actions. I can't understand at this point how their outrage is supposed to be even nominally effective to anybody who's not, uh, going their way.

To me at least it's pretty clear to me what the Gamergaters' campaign is directed at. They want people like Zoe to "go away" in a very permanent sense. Once one realizes the very clear end goal of their attempts at silencing any criticism of abusive behavior, well, the more abuse one encounters the harder it is to look at them and say "You know, they have a point, what they're asking for is reasonable", or even "Well maybe if I don't make so much trouble for myself things will be easier". Those are very old lies, but the ways in which the Gamergaters tell them is utterly unpersuasive.

Does it make me sad that Alec Holowka killed himself? Yes, it does, because he was a human being, with human struggles and failings, not some kind of fucking political football. Can I relate at all to the twisted ideology that holds that decision as somehow being Zoe Quinn's fault? Not in the fucking slightest.

Sorry for saying "fucking" so much in this post.

sock fingering, baby (rushomancy), Sunday, 1 September 2019 23:28 (three months ago) link

The allegations covered a few people - the composer Jeremy Soule was also one of them - which is to say that they were unrelated but the release of some of them caused/inspired the release of others - games has never really had a #MeToo, but this might have (or still might) be the start of one.

Considering that call-outs (even when well-intentioned and well executed) are troll bait, I'm sure the gaming community will have a wonderful time screaming "rapist!" at each other for the next two years.

I believe Zoë, I don't believe call-outs are the right approach but I respect what she did regardless, and it's a tragedy about Alec.

I don't at all believe the Jeremy Soule story, though. All that detail and endless screenshots to describe a shitty work situation, but zero evidence or detail surrounding the "rape"? My intuition states that Soule's accuser will be facing a lawsuit.

flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 2 September 2019 00:37 (three months ago) link

*they, that is

flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 2 September 2019 00:38 (three months ago) link

which one of Soule's accusers?

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Monday, 2 September 2019 02:22 (three months ago) link

I thought it was clear I was referring to the woman who has alleged that Soule raped her, not the other woman who describes having received an unwanted explicit video from him

flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 2 September 2019 03:05 (three months ago) link

sorry! I googled in order to keep up with the thread and found an article with three (or 2.5) accusers and no screenshots of anything, was just trying to orient myself with what ppl are talking about

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Monday, 2 September 2019 04:41 (three months ago) link

I don’t understand why anyone’s still defaulting to a position of “this person can’t produce any hard evidence so I don’t believe them”. Sexual assault is really fucking common, people lying about sexual assault is really fucking rare, and jesus, no, rapists don’t tend to send emails mentioning the fact they’re rapists. Believe the victim.

Engadget’s take on recent events was actually quite an optimistic one and I’d like to think they’re right.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/08/30/gamergate-sexual-abuse-twitter-developers-zoe-quinn/

JimD, Monday, 2 September 2019 09:33 (three months ago) link

I understand where fgti is coming from. I fully acknowledge that sometimes people make false accusations and that those false accusations hurt people who are falsely accused. I do still take the position of defaulting to believing accusers until or unless I have reason not to.

Speaking up about abuse, for me, is a powerful step towards breaking the cycle of abuse, even though frequently it leads one to be dismissed and not believed.

sock fingering, baby (rushomancy), Monday, 2 September 2019 12:49 (three months ago) link

I do not let my mandate to "believe survivors" evaporate my critical facilities. And: it's not that I disbelieve Soule's accuser, it is simply that her account of Soule's rape of her does not read to me, in its current state, as being credible. Considering that civil cases (such as defamation) are decided by who appears to be more credible-- the plaintiff or the defendant-- I am concerned that Soule's accuser may lose, in the event of a defamation suit, which I intuit will be Soule's response. And regardless of the veracity of her allegation of rape, it is clear from the rest of her post that she is absolutely the victim of a toxic work environment, where she was belittled and left unpaid and not given credit for the work she did. I think she is a victim and deserves justice; I intuit that her allegation of rape, as it currently has been stated, may currently succeed in the court of public opinion, but will not succeed under legal scrutiny, and a woman who has been victimized (via a toxic work environment) will not receive justice because her complaint about her workplace has been coloured by a rape allegation that may be determined, in the future, to lack credibility. (I do not relish reading Twitter in the event that this turns out to be the case, and I will pray every night to be rendered illiterate.)

I read the article you posted, JimD, and I am frustrated with its inaccuracies and fallacies. In the first paragraph alone, the author states that "Soule has denied [both] allegations", but this is false; Soule did not deny the allegation that he'd sent explicit video to his second accuser, he simply stated that the context in which the video was sent differed, in his memory, from the context that his accuser described. As his second accuser is not apparently engaging in defamation-- she is not lying, i.e., she is credibly describing something that happened, and speaking about her feelings toward what happened, and Soule seems to tacitly confirm that the facts of her account are correct-- I do not intuit that Soule will press for legal action against his second accuser, as he has no grounds for it; it makes no sense to sue somebody who is telling the truth. Either way, the Engadget article is incorrect, and it is worth noting, journalistically, that Soule has tacitly confirmed the facts of the second accuser's account, as it demonstrates that he's willing to publicly acknowledge the facts of his behaviour. Omitting this detail misrepresents Soule, and portrays him as an individual who issues blanket denials, with no capacity toward self-examination.

I too believe it is important to speak up about abuse, but I personally believe that all possible avenues of resolution should be explored before making public call-outs. I say not as a criticism of individuals who choose to make public call-outs, but as an observation of the inefficacy and, well, danger of making them; Quinn's abuser killed himself, and I intuit that Soule's accuser will be facing legal action-- no justice will be served in either scenario.

flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 2 September 2019 14:20 (three months ago) link

When I read about allegations of these sort, I typically choose to not use my critical faculties. I don't believe that I am competent, in most cases, to judge what actually happened in these contested cases, because typically I don't have access to sufficient evidence to make an objective judgment. When I choose who to believe - this is pretty much always "the victim" but I also, I find, have certain latitude to decide who I feel "the victim" is - this is very much a subjective judgment. That's my compromise. I don't feel comfortable choosing to abstain from all varieties of judgment, because of the environment I live in, because silence favors the oppressor.

I agree with your assessment that "naming and shaming" possesses certain dangers, that it is fallible, that it can lead to grave miscarriages of justice. I support it despite these dangers because, right now, it seems like this process is the best form of justice victims of abuse and/or assault have access to.

sock fingering, baby (rushomancy), Monday, 2 September 2019 15:51 (three months ago) link

<3 very well said!

flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 2 September 2019 16:01 (three months ago) link

it makes no sense to sue somebody who is telling the truth

It does when you have money to burn on lawyers, no? See Michael Jackson.

Melon Musk (Leee), Monday, 2 September 2019 16:02 (three months ago) link

Good post flamoyant goon tie, but why do I feel like you're sercretly shilling for TurboTax?

☮ (peace, man), Monday, 2 September 2019 16:03 (three months ago) link

I just think it's worth approaching this kind of thing from a position of "what good or harm am I doing by publicly applying my critical facilities?". Your chances of impacting the specific case in question are effectively zero, so no good is coming of it in that sense. But other victims who haven't yet told their stories are possibly (probably!) hearing you, and the message you're giving them is "if you want the truth of what happened to you to be known and don't just want to be victimised further, you'd better make sure you tell the story in such a way that you meet *my* critical standards", and all that can do is make it harder for people to feel they can identify predators, which of course is actively helpful to those predators.

Like, the full version of "believe the victim" should probably go "believe the victim and state publicly that you do, OR feel free to not believe them but if that's your position then at least keep quiet about it because really, how is your voice helping anything otherwise?".

And ok I get that the answer to the last question is probably "it's helping protect people who might be falsely accused now or in the future" but a) that's a much tinier group of people than the group of people who have been victims of sexual misconduct and b) it's already a much better protected group of people too, and worst of all c) if it's a group that you feel you're potentially a member of yourself then that slips into the "my self preservation is more important to me than my compassion for people who have had been through traumatic experiences" zone.

JimD, Tuesday, 3 September 2019 08:43 (three months ago) link

but I personally believe that all possible avenues of resolution should be explored before making public call-outs.

fwiw I do absolutely agree with you here, but I still can't bring myself to be critical of anyone who doesn't feel they can do that, and chooses the public callout route instead.

JimD, Tuesday, 3 September 2019 08:46 (three months ago) link

(Which isn't to say you *are* being critical of those people, I mean you've specifically stated you aren't being, so I guess "but" was just a bad choice wrong word in that sentence).

JimD, Tuesday, 3 September 2019 08:48 (three months ago) link

A good and powerful and grim post about the Night in the Woods developer: https://medium.com/@bombsfall/alec-2618dc1e23e

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 10:28 (three months ago) link

he posted on reddit a few days ago, saying he would follow up with a detailed post - this was it. really sad, but very thoughtful and explains things pretty well

Nhex, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 13:24 (three months ago) link

Great essay.

☮ (peace, man), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 13:48 (three months ago) link

That's an exceptionally heavy essay and very well written and compassionate as well. I have learned (too late, in one instance) that it's very good practice to stay far away from people who seem to have nothing but negative shit to say about their exes, or their former close friends.

@ JimD, I could type all day about my thoughts on this, but I don't have much luck communicating effectively my thoughts on this topic in forums. It's more of a conversation. In general, though, you're right, I'm not generally critical of the people who engage in call-outs, I am critical of the mechanism itself. (I say this, too, as somebody who has engaged in a call out, and found the experience to be exhausting, professionally harmful, and ineffective.) I don't think "callouts" generally have a good track record for helping survivors heal, or holding the accused accountable. Certainly, on social media, it's become more of a circus-of-bullying than anything even tangentially related to social justice.

flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 21:42 (three months ago) link

Game publisher Nicalis, successful for smash hits like Cave Story and Binding of Isaac, has a dark side. A Kotaku investigation reveals employee exploitation, mismanagement, and a whole lot of workplace racism from founder Tyrone Rodriguez. My latest: https://t.co/S6U8RghwOO pic.twitter.com/btXZmWPPu8

— Jason Schreier (@jasonschreier) September 12, 2019

Evan, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:25 (two months ago) link

yikes

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:35 (two months ago) link

"please enjoy the comedy racism of Tyrone Rodriguez"

brigadier pudding (DJP), Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:55 (two months ago) link

that guy & nicalis in general has always been extremely shady

ciderpress, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:58 (two months ago) link

yeh not surprised that terribly run company is run by a terrible person

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Thursday, 12 September 2019 17:07 (two months ago) link


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