Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (six years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (six years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (six years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (six years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (six years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (six years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (six years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (six years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (six years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (six years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (six years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (six years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (six years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (six years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (six years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (six years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (six years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (six years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (six years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (six years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (six years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taPuNAaMZ5w

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (six years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (six years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (six years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (six years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (six years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (six years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (six years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (six years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (six years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (six years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (six years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszjSeK_F5Q&feature=related

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (six years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (six years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (six years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (six years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (six years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (six years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (six years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (six years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (six years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (six years ago) Permalink

http://images.wikia.com/logopedia/images/6/63/Bobs1.jpg

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (six years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (six years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (six years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (six years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (six years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (six years ago) Permalink

well, that's a bummer. i didn't know that was a thing.

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 12:06 (one month ago) Permalink

yeah it's the 3rd time this year iirc

ciderpress, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 13:07 (one month ago) Permalink

what benefit of the doubt? witcher 3 wasn't a tour de force for trans issues. they can be transphobic and also make excellent games the two are not related.

Mordy, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 13:58 (one month ago) Permalink

they always make these tweets in some way that's just vague enough to have plausible deniability for the people who want to defend their favorite game dev. i just mentioned witcher 3 because that's what built that goodwill

ciderpress, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 14:15 (one month ago) Permalink

this one was a bit more pointed/aggressive than the previous instances though, it's clearly intentional

ciderpress, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 14:16 (one month ago) Permalink

one month passes...

this is from 2015, but check out this important "debate"

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-11-10-street-fighter-5-sparks-censorship-debate

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 20:16 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Post beta update, her crotch at this moment is off screen.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:13 (two weeks ago) Permalink

it's like, just imagine being part of this debate

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Capcom had said the boob jiggle was a bug.

haha

jmm, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

What if casual racism/sexism in games has been bugs all along?

jmm, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i get the appeal in soul calibur but street fighter characters don't even look good anymore in 4 and 5 it's such an ugly art style

ciderpress, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:27 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the appeal of wanting to see close-up upskirt shots during character intros you mean?

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

hmm no not that

ciderpress, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 21:59 (two weeks ago) Permalink

speedrunners exposed as altright nazi scum, Games Done Quick refusing to disinvite them saying it's "not our policy to ban people from our events for differing opinions"

Here we have the biggest nazi in speedrunning, @RWhiteGoose linking and quoting Jordan Peterson, then posting some hateful anti-woman propaganda along with famed GDQ Runner @graviton29 spewing extremely transphobic garbage in a safe-space nazi speedrunning discord pic.twitter.com/soO76NaeGK

— 🏴 Antifa Andrea 🌹 (@pizzaparty531) November 27, 2018


https://gamesdonequick.com/notice

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 04:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the phrase "the biggest nazi in speedrunning" just broke my brain

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 04:47 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I like how it ends up with "ha ha yes well I'd probably still meet up with an attractive trans person just to check. say if they were hot irl then it would still be a good story. ha ha imagine, I guess I'd probably sleep with them if they were nice lol, good story to tell, gooooood... story."

sans lep (sic), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 04:56 (two weeks ago) Permalink

"not our policy to ban people from our events for differing opinions"

also the opinions shared in that discord chat are probably also shared by a huge chunk of their audience

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:20 (two weeks ago) Permalink

There’s more than a couple trans women who run at GDQ and at least one who I think is an organizer, fwiw, I will look for some individual reax

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:38 (two weeks ago) Permalink

After receiving additional information on the situation that was brought to our attention today, we were able to confirm the authenticity of the screenshots we received. As such, the people in question will not be representing us at any GDQ events indefinitely.

— Games Done Quick (@GamesDoneQuick) November 28, 2018

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:40 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I guess that’s that, then. I’m glad they made the right call eventually, but let me be clear: it shouldn’t have taken this much additional information and blowback. I won’t be forgetting this.https://t.co/cKJW54buHM

— the eevee respecter respecter (@princessproto) November 28, 2018

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:41 (two weeks ago) Permalink

communication has never been their strong suit, and i really want the day to come where they're more put together, as opposed to the weird state they've been in for the past 6 years where they've never rly changed

— Kaitlyn (@orcastraw) November 28, 2018

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Anyway always get a sensitivity read on your PR and don’t put out a statement if there’s a chance you’ll change your mind an hour later!

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:43 (two weeks ago) Permalink

And do what Proto says and watch https://mobile.twitter.com/PwerUpWithPride between rounds of Smash Bros next weekend

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 05:46 (two weeks ago) Permalink

gaming was a mistake

sign up for my waterless urinals webinar (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 11:51 (two weeks ago) Permalink

gaming's fine, fan culture is the mistake

Bound 4 da Remoan (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 11:52 (two weeks ago) Permalink

scared little boys trying to outmacho each other is the mistake

thomasintrouble, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 12:13 (two weeks ago) Permalink

gdq has always had drama issues, which is why i tend to keep my distance, but i'm glad they usually wind up doing the right thing eventually. i don't know if i'm being ageist about it but i sort of attribute it to so many of them being young.

there's a lot of horrible transphobic stuff in gaming but the flipside of that is that trans people are more _visible_ in gaming, which is a really awesome thing that's been incredibly helpful to me personally. role models are cool.

also, i've seen my fair share of the quiet transphobia of people who have never actually seen a trans person in their lives, and i feel like some, though not all, of those people would be just as big assholes as the gamer nazis.

dub pilates (rushomancy), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 14:44 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Pretty sure the average age of GDQ runners is around 17 and if the organizers are older it’s only because they’ve stuck around a few years

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 14:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

we've all had a video games period

biliares now living will never buey (Noodle Vague), Monday, 3 December 2018 15:53 (one week ago) Permalink

The average age varies by console. More older people run on 8-bit and 16-bit consoles.

I used to watch a handful of RWhiteGoose’s videos about speedrunning Goldeneye. They were really well made and informative.

He said captain, I said wot (FlopsyDuck), Monday, 3 December 2018 19:22 (one week ago) Permalink

Please tell me someone nuked that account.

From Damage Inc. to Metallica Inc. (Leee), Monday, 3 December 2018 23:54 (one week ago) Permalink

If we were allowed to discuss IQ differences between populations, there'd be fewer conspiracy theories. https://t.co/hXSXEnIJcL

— Notch (@notch) December 6, 2018

Karl Malone, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:47 (six days ago) Permalink

lmao

(° . ° )― (Lamp), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:48 (six days ago) Permalink

Then I already am silenced. https://t.co/Pmv69e7wlP

— Notch (@notch) December 6, 2018

Karl Malone, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:50 (six days ago) Permalink

if money is free speech, then i am about 1/100000000000000000000th as loud as him

Karl Malone, Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:51 (six days ago) Permalink

imagine going through life looking like the mascot for a discount brand of liverwurst thinking your a stupendous genius because you made a videogame

(° . ° )― (Lamp), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:55 (six days ago) Permalink

A bad video game

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Thursday, 6 December 2018 20:56 (six days ago) Permalink

money really can’t buy you a fucking clue huh

We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:01 (six days ago) Permalink

mein kraft

teen heartthrob Pacey Winger (Will M.), Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:14 (six days ago) Permalink

man, I finally played Minecraft after that website called it like the 3rd greatest videogame of all time and I'm not really into it

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:37 (six days ago) Permalink

just looked, it was Polygon and it was the 8th greatest

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:38 (six days ago) Permalink

i liked some of the games that ripped it off later in different ways - dragon quest builders, terraria

Karl Malone, Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:39 (six days ago) Permalink

imo the placement of Minecraft is more of a statement on its legacy/influence, not on how fun it actually is to play these days.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:40 (six days ago) Permalink

Space Wars and Adventure are some of the most important games of all time, but they also suck ass these days

Karl Malone, Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:41 (six days ago) Permalink

also the best way to play minecraft imo (at least it was in 2013 or whenever i played it) was on a persistent server with a bunch of ppl you know, all building cool things in your own little corners of the map, and then going and visiting other people's shit and getting jealous/inspired ot build your own cool shit

teen heartthrob Pacey Winger (Will M.), Thursday, 6 December 2018 21:48 (six days ago) Permalink

also on kotaku: Steam Is Banning Sex Games With Young-Looking Characters

Karl Malone, Saturday, 8 December 2018 18:39 (four days ago) Permalink

that GOG clown has since been hired by drumrollllllll a rightwing gaming site
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/gog-transphobic-tweet-gamergate-website/

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Saturday, 8 December 2018 18:46 (four days ago) Permalink


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