Video Games and Art (Video Games AS Art) (and so on)

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can any game be art, or just contain it?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:23 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Some have certainly argued this. the SF MoMA had an exhibit last year about it(had Rez, VibRibbon, and America's Army running).

kingfish holiday travesty (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Running for people to play, as games, or just showing off the lights and the noise? Because that's video art, or a "demo" if you're an early 90s graphics and mod music dork. Running a loop of game action in an art museum supports the second idea, actually, that a game with formal rules can't be art itself, it just contains things that are art!

This thread is a continuation of sorts of Ebert Video Game Commentary Hullabaloo

and references a couple of things brought up towards the end of RPGs are better in 2D. Discuss!

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

amomi

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 17:43 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Running for people to play. Oops, I was mistaken. that it wasn't the MoMA that ran this, but the Yerba Buena center, which is across the street. The exhibition was Bang the Machine: Computer Gaming Art and Artifacts . It even had a multiplayer Waco 1993 FPS, too. Escape the compound before it burns!

here's an article about a discussion that MoMA did have about 4 years ago.

kingfish holiday travesty (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 18:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Hi my name is Jon and when I can't contribute anything intelligent, I piss on things!

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 20:26 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Though frankly I was waiting for someone else to post a Mario Paint reference, so I guess what difference does it make?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 20:27 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I guess we should turn this thread into a different discussion, since the other one is still alive and well on Ebert?

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 20:41 (twelve years ago) Permalink

i'm waiting for Nabisco to show

kingfish holiday travesty (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 20:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

My friend M4tt B0ch is a video artist whose (I think) most recent work combines video captures from Atari's ADVENTURE!, childhood home movies, and surreal pixelvision self-portraiture.

From his statement:

While my body, mind, and self-perception changed since my first affair with Adventure!, its code laid dormant, neither growing or changing, so that when I returned to the game after a decade’s absence I encountered a shell of my past identity. I remembered how my body used to fit it: I was a homunculus inside the mind of a tiny rectangle, exploring the vast mazes of a 4kb Atari cartridge.

Adventure! is the first video game I remember playing, and is the first time I experienced and became aware of the multiplicity of identity. I was to become that little square and my disordered, confusing body was displaced as I grabbed the controls and became a tiny, perfect rectangle. The form I took was entirely abstract. I made it a humanoid; I made it sympathetic. By playing it, I authored it.

Screencaps, clips, and artist's statement are here:

http://www.r-p-l.org/TEAMS/DUST_BUNNIES/PROJECTS/persistent_clips_main.html

He's a cool kid, check that shit out.

elmo, patron saint of nausea (allocryptic), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 21:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I think maybe the fact that games by necessity integrate certain elements which are undeniably artistic (graphics, storytelling) muddies the issue, because the RESULT is something that sorta exists outside the arena of any individual artistic discipline? I mean, I dunno, I've always sidestepped this question with a stock 'everything is art!' response (which I pretty much believe to be true), but that doesn't eliminate the question of how games should be assessed in relation to other mediums.

I can't help but think more of sports than literature or graphic art, at least regarding the role of videogames. Is chess art? Is football art? Sure, in their own ways.

I GUARONTEE ::cajun voice:: (Adrian Langston), Thursday, 29 December 2005 22:33 (twelve years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...
http://hello.eboy.com/eboy/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/egmhalo.pngIf Halo looked like this, I'd play it.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 8 September 2006 16:50 (twelve years ago) Permalink

that makes me want to play syndicate

sleep (sleep), Friday, 8 September 2006 17:00 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I loved syndicate but that game had so many dumb pitfalls. the drugs system + territories revolting and forcing you to re-complete the exact same missions to get them back were absolute nonsense

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 8 September 2006 17:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

but yeah whatever happened to pixel art, for real

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 8 September 2006 17:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

dare I say vice city may have been improved by being made to look like this:
http://hello.eboy.com/eboy/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/FAC_miami_entw_s14.png

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 8 September 2006 17:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I guess it's unrelated, but here's some awesome pixel art:

http://www.neatorama.com/2006/09/05/jason-huangs-lovepixel/

polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 8 September 2006 17:41 (twelve years ago) Permalink

all cool

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

nine months pass...

has anyone else been keeping an eye on the upcoming jeff minter game, space giraffe for the xbox360?

new screenshots up on yakyak

http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=65244

(warning, large images)

see also, his visualiser that is bundled with all xbox360s.

koogs, Monday, 11 June 2007 16:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

he's been writing about it in an edge column for a few months now. I am pretty excited by it.

Dy, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 12:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

holy shit, new yak game? amazing!

g-kit, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 15:13 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Also, where the hell is SPORE already?

forksclovetofu, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 17:40 (eleven years ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1082/708958045_8981045405.jpg

Ste, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 08:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/709080033_60a8345bf8.jpg

Ste, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 08:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1203/708734823_54d6c8324e.jpg

Ste, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 08:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

what is this

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 18:32 (eleven years ago) Permalink

GTA:LCS I believe. I like them Ste, I like the last one most of all.

kv_nol, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 19:04 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Yes it's me going crazy with a camera on GTA messing around with shutter speeds and the photoshop perspective tool With all this rain at the moment I can't take pictures of anything else!

Yeah I blurred the cranes and bridge in that last one, which I think works to some rainy effect level.

Ste, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 19:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one more

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1347/708875089_5012a91efc.jpg

Ste, Thursday, 5 July 2007 09:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I like the effect but I think that if you're softening the rider you need to soften all the sharp edges especially on the wheels. Does that makes sense?

kv_nol, Thursday, 5 July 2007 11:56 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i would be really happy if you could do this for Ico

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 5 July 2007 11:57 (eleven years ago) Permalink

do you mean the riders head? it was accidentally softened because of where the blur mask was set down the screen, i guess i should have art-history'd his head back in focus.

Ste, Thursday, 5 July 2007 12:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I meant his knees as well, the wheels aren't as rounded...

kv_nol, Thursday, 5 July 2007 13:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink

yeah i don't know what happened at the knees, i think the contrast between the white bike and the black outfit blew out when I curved it to death.

Ste, Thursday, 5 July 2007 14:22 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I... don't know what that means...

kv_nol, Thursday, 5 July 2007 15:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

its a tool in photoshop, the curve tool. i use it to enhance contrast and colour. which i used to the max on this one.

Ste, Thursday, 5 July 2007 15:23 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Ah. Cheers. More plz.

kv_nol, Thursday, 5 July 2007 15:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I like the last one best, it looks like those faux-model train miniatures shots that were all the rage on ILE for a few days way back when

El Tomboto, Thursday, 5 July 2007 17:57 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Oh the larks as people tried to recreate them. Good attempts though and definitely one or two successes! Can't find thread though, sorry. Had something to do with model railways in the title.

kv_nol, Thursday, 5 July 2007 23:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1158/672349917_cd085ef7f1_b.jpg

Ste, Friday, 6 July 2007 10:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Tracer, a star is you.

Ste, loving those! May we use them as wallpaper?

kv_nol, Friday, 6 July 2007 11:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

yeah course, do what you want with them.

and thanks

Ste, Friday, 6 July 2007 12:29 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

loving the graphics on this up and coming release

http://www.machinarium.com/

Ant Attack.. (Ste), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 22:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

that's just concept art, right?

゙(゚、 。 7 (cankles), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 22:16 (nine years ago) Permalink

No, it's a 2D adventure game, that is the actual art. I remember the flash games that guy made, pretty cool looking stuff.

Nhex, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 22:19 (nine years ago) Permalink

looks and sounds good! very lucasartsy.

i wanna roll stuff UP, i don't wanna NOT roll stuff up!!!! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 22:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

i just checked out the flash game, very nice indeed

http://amanita-design.net/samorost-2/

Ant Attack.. (Ste), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 23:14 (nine years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

i wouldn't argue Pong is art. but are you seriously comparing horseshoes to Parappa the Rapper, Final Fantasy, Shadow of the Colossus, the entire canon of all videogames created in the last 30 years, etc. etc.?

― Nhex, Friday, June 14, 2013 12:54 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

um... yes?

in the same way that i could compare a mondrian painting to a jerry bruckheimer movie—one is way bigger and more detailed but they're both recognizably "art"

we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 14 June 2013 16:57 (five years ago) Permalink

xp whoa

Nhex, Friday, 14 June 2013 16:57 (five years ago) Permalink

like i said above, more than once, i do agree that you can call basically ANYTHING "art"

so yes, you can say that pong on a skyscraper is art, especially for someone just watching it

but that doesn't get us closer to the real question, which is "is playing pong an artistic experience?" nothing in this thread has convinced me of this

we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 14 June 2013 16:58 (five years ago) Permalink

i think of athletes as artists to the extent that athletics when done well are creative motion and displays of improvisational and choreographed movement at peak efficiency and grace, so sorta related to dance.

are soldiers in combat artists?

we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:00 (five years ago) Permalink

the motivation for any given action in sports or in games derives from non-aesthetic considerations. this is a huge & fundamental difference

we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:01 (five years ago) Permalink

commercial considerations really ought to be let into play then if that's the route.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:02 (five years ago) Permalink

describing it as art might be a neat or illuminating (or metaphorical) way to "think about it," sure, but it seems like you're missing the bigger picture there

we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:03 (five years ago) Permalink

and i think a lot of that comes from a sense that video games will only be recognized as "worthy" in some way if we can convince everyone they're works of art. why not exalt them as ludic masterpieces? as their own and awesome category of Things Humans Do?

we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:04 (five years ago) Permalink

A really great game to me would be exalted more like a really great pencil or brush is exalted and there isn't a center for critical writing utensil studies necessary

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:08 (five years ago) Permalink

xp s1ocki i think the answer to that is because they are v. obviously artistic to at least some extent, if you want to stop short of calling them art that's fine if you have justifications for it that make sense to you, but clearly games come from creators and allow for expression (from those making them, as well as sometimes from those playing them) of ideas and aesthetics, which to me seem to be commonalities of artforms.

sleepingbag, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:13 (five years ago) Permalink

are soldiers in combat artists?

i think you're being willfully disingenuous at this point dude but
the motivation for any given action in sports or in games derives from non-aesthetic considerations.

makes me think you haven't watched sports or played games. the motivation in games to do well is to continue to be rewarded with a drip of aesthetic reward! and the parts of athletics that i'm labeling art are all about aesthetic consideration!

i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Hmmm, I've always thought of the "art" in a game is the game mechanics, what those mechanics are modelling, and what that model says about stuff. Most obviously this is in the sims, where life is described as a series of needs and wants that the player must fulfill, culminating in the luxury of being able to get nicer virtual things. Tetris is about exploring the game mechanic and having fun organising randomness. A great deal of the pleasure in xcom is the way it forces teamwork to overcome incredible odds. I suppose fpss are the least gamey on this scale, cos its always essentially run, shoot some guys, end.

Random .mdb Memories (NotEnough), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:18 (five years ago) Permalink

I think craft can become an art when practiced at the highest level, but mechanics to me are the province of craft -- constrained and motivated by environment rather than internal expression.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:21 (five years ago) Permalink

the one facet of this where i can kind of see s1ocki's point is that i think games can be more than art, which i guess is a way of saying 'different than art', in that games can be sports, games can be trivia, games can be simulations, games can be war (drones/enders game lol) etc... but i don't see anything that categorically excludes games from being art either! i do see something though that excludes sports or war from being art, the absence of creation.

sleepingbag, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:26 (five years ago) Permalink

Rumsfeld as architect of war

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:28 (five years ago) Permalink

lol i don't think slocki is flailing nor is he being disingenuous

the fact that in a sport any action taken on the field is always and primarily for the purposes of winning and not aesthetics seems insurmountable to me

goole, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:40 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah I don't think that's a particularly controversial position either

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:40 (five years ago) Permalink

i think that distinction is enough to render games different from art (if not "not art", idk?)

but again "pure" games are on a different plane from the competitive games of sports, going back to my crap up there about mazes and experience. or thinking about non-video games like, idk, those annoying old-timey catch-the-ball-on-a-string-in-the-cup. meaningless time wasting, a challenge w/o purpose, meant just to be fun to keep your hands and eyes occupied

goole, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:46 (five years ago) Permalink

any action taken on the field is always and primarily for the purposes of winning and not aesthetics seems insurmountable to me

http://www.6magazineonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/tebow_large.jpg

i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:49 (five years ago) Permalink

well yes, everyone knows that Tebow is art

I mean:

http://www.imagecpr.com/imagecpr.com%20uploads/2012/09/TEBOW-HELMET.gif

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:50 (five years ago) Permalink

was just trying to find that gif!

i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:51 (five years ago) Permalink

let's set aside what you think i meant by "on the field"

but really, don't, because, do you think tebow is praying because it looks good? or is he praying to win.

goole, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:55 (five years ago) Permalink

well strictly speaking he is giving thanks to his Lord and Savior for making a spectacular garbage play successful

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Does Jordan sticking his tongue out provide extra lift for his layup and dunks?

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:00 (five years ago) Permalink

I think winning as a motivator is much less of a barrier than money as a motivator in terms of negating aesthetic agency.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Like in that time punch art piece, if that artist was actually working a job where he was paid to punch a clock, that would have destroyed the thing. He'd just be working a job at that point.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:12 (five years ago) Permalink

hahaha

am0n, Saturday, 15 June 2013 20:17 (five years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

flippin over how great this is

Homo schaduwkabinet (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 13 November 2013 02:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah this is pretty wonderful. On a side note, isn't the 3D Bubsy supposed to be one of the worst games of all time?

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 13 November 2013 05:17 (five years ago) Permalink

that was awesome

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Wednesday, 13 November 2013 10:31 (five years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

probably a better place to put that than here but eh

Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 15 December 2013 08:00 (four years ago) Permalink

I don't believe that's a real XBL message, since it doesn't contain racial slurs or homophobic insults.

All that self-sacrifice, judgement, self-pity! I’d say it’s (snoball), Sunday, 15 December 2013 08:03 (four years ago) Permalink

Zone Recreation

Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 15 December 2013 08:04 (four years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
two years pass...

holy cow woulda look at that

we gather in social groups and disorient ourselves (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 March 2018 23:34 (eight months ago) Permalink

Making vector replicas of display type used to be my crack. I developed an entire typeface based on the Tron logo back in the day.

Toilet Paper Tube Bracelets -- Super Hero Themed? (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 March 2018 23:42 (eight months ago) Permalink

that's awesome

Nhex, Saturday, 24 March 2018 18:30 (eight months ago) Permalink

(Should mention I created the Tron font exclusively for use on a flyer for a college radio show that like four people listened to. It was a good use of my time.)

I'm preordering this thing: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Console-History-Photographs/dp/1593277431

Also highly recommend the Art of Atari book that came out a year or so ago.

Toilet Paper Tube Bracelets -- Super Hero Themed? (Old Lunch), Saturday, 24 March 2018 20:39 (eight months ago) Permalink

oh hey another design student figured out the Adobe Illustrator Trace function

Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 25 March 2018 19:11 (eight months ago) Permalink

Now, now. Perhaps it's come a long way in recent versions but my recollection is that 'trace' isn't really all that. It involves some work to overcome Adobe's apparent insistence that a copy of a straight line should have 52 anchor points.

to eat a little "snack", to have an snack (Old Lunch), Sunday, 25 March 2018 21:59 (eight months ago) Permalink

yeah its a little more complicated than that. im just being snarky (the Batman Return one in partic looks like he just hit trace and export). still, foregoing all that you could turn on the pen tool and trace one of these logos by hand in like 5 mins.

Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 26 March 2018 13:24 (eight months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

i like this

https://en.softonic.com/articles/gta-5-gun-violence-in-america

Karl Malone, Monday, 23 July 2018 21:51 (four months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

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