Rogueism

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Its like rockism....

BUT FOR RPGs

Emphasis on anything but crappy Japanese pedophilic doe-eyed anime otaku crap!

- anti save game trendencies
- permadeath
- etc

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Saturday, 8 October 2005 19:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Is that like people who don't like Secret of Evermore because it's not a "normal" rpg and treats RPG conventions irreverently?

the pr00de abides (pr00de), Saturday, 8 October 2005 20:20 (thirteen years ago) link

NO.

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Saturday, 8 October 2005 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link

What do you think of Final Fantasy Tactics?

Laura H. (laurah), Saturday, 8 October 2005 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh, okay.

the pr00de abides (pr00de), Saturday, 8 October 2005 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link

xpost

the pr00de abides (pr00de), Saturday, 8 October 2005 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link

http://www.ambogiochi.it/images/mag_edge_115_b.jpg

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 8 October 2005 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link

I think you meant This

This is kinda similar

The faggoty manga people thing is still in full effect, however

TOMBOT, Monday, 10 October 2005 17:51 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, so what's the rogueist take on Final Fantasy Tactics, Jon? Or have you not played it as you have not played most recent FF games (despite the firm stance you have taken against them as a ROGUEIST)?

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 17:57 (thirteen years ago) link

FINAL FANTASY TACTICS IS NOT AN RPG

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:39 (thirteen years ago) link

That's a bold statement. Wikipedia calls it a "Tactical RPG" and other places I've seen it called a "Strategy RPG" or "Turn-Based Strategy RPG." Have you played it?

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:53 (thirteen years ago) link

Tactical RPGs

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:14 (thirteen years ago) link

FF Tactics doesn't even have exploration elements right? I like Heroes of Might and Magic though.

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:39 (thirteen years ago) link

The fungus hits! You die....
the gnome takes all of your possessions. F@G

Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link

oof in retrospect i'm really sorry about that

Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link

oh yesss I have a non-homophobic one:

The shrieker shrieks!
The rust monster hits! Your boots rust.
The rust monster hits! Your boots rust further.
The rust monster hits! Your boots are completely rusty.
The Olog-hai wields a glaive. The Olog-hai hits!
You die...

F@RT

Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link

somebody stop me, seriously

Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link

xxxxpost
No, not the kind of exploration that you're used to from other FF games. Most things are happening on an isometric grid, and the routes between regions/towns are predesignated. There are undoubtedly a lot of strategy elements, but I don't feel that it can be categorized as a straight up strategy game. The "doe-eyed" SD character design, the class/job system, and the aesthetic/visuals all scream Square RPG to me.

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link

They all scream Square maybe but I don't think any of those things make it an RPG. I mean, god help us if class/job systems are what make things rpgs. (Tedium = role playing! maybe you are on to something actually!)

Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:56 (thirteen years ago) link

This is certainly the thread for that line of thinking.

Also, it's not like the other FF games haven't had turn based fighting systems and strategy elements. And there's a strong emphasis on plot in FFT, developing and playing the roles of characters in an intricate story. Is the isometric grid alone enough to make it a strategy game? I don't think so, especially when the aesthetic is so clearly RPG oriented. but I'd be curious to hear what other people think.

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link

Final Fantasy Tactics is a role-playing game. I am playing an emulator version just now, feels like a role-playing game. exploration and systems of combat are important in defining role-playing games fr sure but not definitive.

What Laura H said... Plot, characters/story levelling up, job classes, random quests and jobs you can take to get rewards and experience. It is much closer to final fantasy games and rpg's in general than strategy games like romance of the three kingdoms or rome total war, i am unsure of any strategy game it is like tho it has some elements from strategy games. Strategy-RPG is a good definition i guess although surely all rpg's or pretty much all games need 'strategy'.

Final Fantasy X and X-II got rid of the world map for linear location to location travelling which gets rid of a lot of exploration, still exploration of dungeons and towns but no world. Azure dreams only has one town and one dungeon but it's still an rpg.

jeffrey (johnson), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link

Later final fantasy games are movies. You just hit A enough to get to the cut scenes! Then MEANINGFUL EVENTS happen between the doe eyed walking clichés!

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Monday, 10 October 2005 22:30 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah, from what little i've seen of it, i think FFT is still an actual RPG, only without the whizbang overblown presentation of the usual FF title...

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 10 October 2005 22:31 (thirteen years ago) link

xpost
I don't feel this is true at all. You have never played these games, so are you just operating on your impressions from various commercials?

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 22:44 (thirteen years ago) link

http://www.ffartwork.com/

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Monday, 10 October 2005 23:15 (thirteen years ago) link

http://www.ffartwork.com/7015aerithrevenge6wv.jpg

OUR HOUSEHOLD

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Monday, 10 October 2005 23:15 (thirteen years ago) link

When your blood sugar is low it is more like this:

http://www.squareamp.com/features/gallery/Group/sephiroth_Aeris.jpg

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 10 October 2005 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link

I like the newer final fantasy's, they are hardly as good as the earlier ones or a lot of other rpg's but they are still enjoyable, just not as much. Too much plot and cut-scenes etc. relative to exploration and actually playing is true but it's hardly Dragon's Lair.

Those pictures are the funny.

jeffrey (johnson), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:35 (thirteen years ago) link

The dude in that picture really looks like JW!

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link

I gave up on Final Fantasy when I got to the one with the dude who talked like a surfer and wore half-jams.

People sick of the press-A-til-you-get-a-CGI nonsense should play Atelier Iris for the PS2. It's totally big eyed otaku shit but fairly deep with next to no cutscenes and decently fun random encounters.

adam (adam), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 17:28 (thirteen years ago) link

Can you repost that picture where the guy says "po-tay-toes"?

(Isn't rogueism kinda maybe about difficulty? So FFT but not FF, which is 'easier'?)

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link

difficulty has a lot to do with it! nethack etc are like open ended sierra games sometimes

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 17:47 (thirteen years ago) link

I find the FFs from VII onwards unbearably boring. Square have reduced the games to levelling up and pointlessly complicated fighting systems. I guess they're still RPGs in some sense, but not ones I want to play.

Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 18:07 (thirteen years ago) link

It's funny you say that, because in Sierra games you need to save pretty much every 5 seconds, which I believe runs counter to the anti-save principles of rogueism!
xpost

Laura H. (laurah), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 18:21 (thirteen years ago) link

I still say that couples who're into cosplay will (eventually) fuck whilst still in costume. It's like furries, only with less plushy action. But with more props.

I gave up on Final Fantasy when I got to the one with the dude who talked like a surfer and wore half-jams.

FYI: voiced by John DiMaggio, who also did Bender from Futurama and Smiling Jack in VTM: Bloodlines.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 18:26 (thirteen years ago) link

Yea, in Nethack you just DIE.

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 19:09 (thirteen years ago) link

One of the most commonly cited (and most amusing) stupid ways to die is to wield a cockatrice corpse while burdened, then fall down a staircase and land on one's own cockatrice corpse.

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link

I can't believe you didn't love Space Quest! It had the best and most diverse deaths.

Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah, but Sierra was a BITCH about deaths. try to, die. try not to, die.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link

I like Sierra Games bro

Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Thursday, 13 October 2005 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link

i liked most of them, too. the death thing was shitty, tho

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 13 October 2005 03:15 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't know why there's not more love for Space Quest particularly. Those games own.

Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 13 October 2005 04:12 (thirteen years ago) link

except for their horrid titular puns

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 13 October 2005 04:41 (thirteen years ago) link

SQ never made any claims to high art! It was delightfully low and silly and fun.

Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Dearie, they were going to call SQ5/SQ6: "Where in Corpsman Sandiego is Roger Wilco?"

some rubicons are better off not crossed.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:46 (thirteen years ago) link

No one who liked Space Quest would say that!

Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:50 (thirteen years ago) link

And it was Corpsman Santiago.

Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:51 (thirteen years ago) link

I spend 3 days trying to get SQ3 by staying up late at night and d/ling disk by disk over a 2400 modem 15 years ago. My space quest cred is unquestionable. UNQUESTIONABLE, i tell you!

with that said, Sierra games always lagged Lucasarts.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 13 October 2005 06:07 (thirteen years ago) link

i'm still finding a tough balance between exploring enough to get resources and running out of gas / money

Nhex, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:16 (six years ago) link

thom jesus west (4:55:21 PM): you killed and ate some gnomes first tho

once & future (Lamp), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:29 (six years ago) link

i stand by that

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:37 (six years ago) link

i have ~oddly vivid~ memories of my nethack-addicted period, normally in remembering videogames i remember what transpires on the screen, nethack i remember that i was listening to the first marnie stern album on a loop basically the entire time and the particular movements of my hands on the keys, or rather how my body felt in space and it felt to be ~interfaced with the machine~

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:38 (six years ago) link

that was then and this is now and thats that

once & future (Lamp), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:53 (six years ago) link

a friend of mine saw i'd left my laptop running ftl and she said "whatever that is, it makes me feel very sorry for you"

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 10 January 2013 13:18 (six years ago) link

haha

Nhex, Thursday, 10 January 2013 14:14 (six years ago) link

she should feel happy for you. ftl is awesome. i beat it on normal w/ the stealth ship yesterday!

Mordy, Thursday, 10 January 2013 14:29 (six years ago) link

i finished it on normal with the cruiser |:

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 11 January 2013 09:22 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

woo! beat FTL w/ the Mantis cruiser, unlocked its second form, and I think I've got all the ships unlocked except for the Crystal one.

Mordy, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 21:11 (six years ago) link

oh man playing w/ the basilisk is so much fun - 4-person teleporter ftw

Mordy, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 01:16 (six years ago) link

my highest score yet - basilisk w/ 5395 points (also set my personal most ships defeated: 47, most scrap collected: 2406, most combat kills - 88, and most piloted evasions -281)

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2013 23:56 (six years ago) link

:( stop tempting me with this obviously addictive and awesome game

plotzin (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 1 March 2013 00:32 (six years ago) link

there's something about roguelikes that make this transition way more central to the experience than when you play, like, god of war

There's something also odd about people who post some of the FAQs, like "Hey I transformed this interesting game into a joyless grind / an OP faceroll, let me show you how and validate the hours I spent on this!!!".

Which I definitely will do if it's falling into the category of games that I like for the story (so, er, not very many roguelikes - is this one of their defining features, that it's less "the story" than "the stories, that your character would tell in the local inn for years"?) rather than the actual gameplay.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 1 March 2013 10:28 (six years ago) link

Andrew I've said here and elsewhere that the specific feeling that Roguelikes create is closer to the experience of playing Tetris. You're manipulating a stream of circumstance into a potential endgame, it's like surfing

plotzin (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 1 March 2013 10:33 (six years ago) link

Yeah I can definitely see that, though I think the complexity makes some difference - I've never finished a game of Tetris and wished that there was someone there to talk to about what just happened. Also most roguelikes aren't real time.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 1 March 2013 11:45 (six years ago) link

They're real time in that they eat up your real life

plotzin (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 1 March 2013 13:02 (six years ago) link

I mean, I tend to play as quick as possible because I want to achieve some sort of transcendent state of character cultivation within a reasonable time frame. It's about quick keystrokes and just-hubristic-enough game plans

plotzin (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 1 March 2013 13:07 (six years ago) link

Whenever I read a victory post (Skyrim included) and it involves a tonne of herb gathering, smithing, farming or repetitive skill development I am reminded as to why I only play this shit when I'm sick and bed-ridden

plotzin (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 1 March 2013 13:11 (six years ago) link

what on earth is an "OP faceroll"

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 1 March 2013 17:07 (six years ago) link

OP = overpowered, as used upthread.

faceroll = er actually possibly slang local to WoW - it indicates that a class is so easy to play you could perform adequately just by binding their spells to random keys, resting your face on the keyboard, and rolling it around on there.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 1 March 2013 23:49 (six years ago) link

Achievement Unlocked: Your Own Fleet

Mordy, Thursday, 7 March 2013 20:23 (six years ago) link

well ... done?

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 8 March 2013 00:43 (six years ago) link

thx! :)

crystal ships are super easy mode

Mordy, Friday, 8 March 2013 00:45 (six years ago) link

how many hours have you spent on this dare i ask

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 8 March 2013 05:19 (six years ago) link

idk I didn't time myself. Its a great game bc u can play a little bit whenever u have some spare time

Mordy, Friday, 8 March 2013 05:25 (six years ago) link

Also the more you play the better you get at it

Mordy, Friday, 8 March 2013 05:25 (six years ago) link

c'mon man. steam. show us the numbers.

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 8 March 2013 06:07 (six years ago) link

do iiiiit

Nhex, Friday, 8 March 2013 06:22 (six years ago) link

i haven't been playing it on steam. i can tell u tho that i've apparently played 295 games and i have 9 total victories. i just realized time played wouldn't make a lot of sense for this game bc i often leave it running in the background while i do other stuff anyway.

Mordy, Friday, 8 March 2013 14:40 (six years ago) link

SHOW US

zero dark (s1ocki), Friday, 8 March 2013 16:14 (six years ago) link

or i may have to contact mordileaks

zero dark (s1ocki), Friday, 8 March 2013 16:14 (six years ago) link

i would happily share my hours played since they are surely fewer than my has-played on WoW, but i cannot!

Mordy, Friday, 8 March 2013 16:17 (six years ago) link

fuck myself forever for ever decrying the non-rogue-iness of this awesome roguelike, btw. I hate this game for existing and hate myself for playing it for two hours this morning

* (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 8 March 2013 17:29 (six years ago) link

i miss this game

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 8 March 2013 18:20 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

anyone played brogue? https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/

(now available for ipad! https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/brogue/id613921309)

s.clover, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 02:38 (six years ago) link

Oh cool - seems to work okay.

JCL, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 03:07 (six years ago) link

I love Brogue! The most beautiful ASCII game ever!
It's impossible, though

flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 03:21 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

just unlocked the godhead in binding of isaac

Mordy, Sunday, 11 January 2015 03:58 (four years ago) link

is desert golfing roguist

celfie tucker 48 (s.clover), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 20:22 (four years ago) link

if you fail to meet par do you have to start over from the first hole?

Mordy, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 21:27 (four years ago) link

lol that is a great concept. someone bang that out pronto. ilx games release #1. can't be hard to procedurally generate golf holes.

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 21:41 (four years ago) link

no but if you fail to meet par you have to live with that _forever_ which seems like the compliment of the same idea

celfie tucker 48 (s.clover), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 21:55 (four years ago) link

http://i58.tinypic.com/2nk45sy.png

i've never been prouder

Mordy, Friday, 16 January 2015 03:22 (four years ago) link

congrats that is excellent work

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 16 January 2015 03:48 (four years ago) link

four months pass...

Eventually the 'rougelike' misspelling is going to be universal

demonic mnevice (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 May 2015 17:44 (four years ago) link

egad, why would someone make this...

Nhex, Friday, 22 May 2015 18:23 (four years ago) link

happy birthday to me just picked up a copy of invisible inc

Mordy, Thursday, 28 May 2015 21:35 (four years ago) link

encrypted looks quite gorgeous imo. lol ilx wont let me put the tag in

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Friday, 29 May 2015 06:36 (four years ago) link


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