Hades (from Supergiant, maker of Pyre, Bastion, Transistor)

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now out of Early Access, this game has kind of ruined my life since i purchased it a few days ago. there's so much to say about it, from how polished and good it is to build ideas, to making fun of Eurydice for being into acoustic Staind songs.

anyone else in hell with me?

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 18:18 (one month ago) link

RIYL: dead cells, rogue legacy, binding of isaac, good writing and voice acting, being perpetually one 25-minute run away from unlocking something you really want

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 18:23 (one month ago) link

what is most amazing to me is how they manage to keep things fresh. it is pretty amazing that none of the characters ever repeats themselves, dozens of times in, even though you're interacting with them repeatedly. as all the reviews indicated, it is the kind of game where you're always unlocking something that is interesting, even things that substantially change the way you can play the game, dozens of hours into the game.

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 18:26 (one month ago) link

I got an hour with this last night, it's very, very slick

Is there any kind of shortcut mechanic? It has all the signs of being a really addictive times ink, but also can see myself repeatedly failing several runs to that first boss and then bouncing off it because I suck at roguelikes

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Monday, 21 September 2020 18:32 (one month ago) link

i haven't run across one yet, but i am pretty sure there will be one. i've been _this_ close to beating it (i think).

it's one of those roguelites where you'll be able to gradually improve your base stats (using the mirror in your bedroom) between runs, so i wouldn't feel too bad about losing the first couple times. also, the 6 weapons are very different and encourage different modes of style, so it might help just to try another one out.

i didn't like the shield, in particular, at first, but it can be incredibly powerful and fun with just a few boons

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 18:38 (one month ago) link

I loved the shield straight away, I had a lightning shield run early on that felt like it was better at being marvel ultimate alliance than marvel ultimate alliance 3 was

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Monday, 21 September 2020 18:59 (one month ago) link

yeah the shield is my favorite so far but i've had the greatest success with the spear + wild backstab damage + speed up, throwing it and recalling it (+ backstab each time), dash across the room, repeat.

i was wondering at what point the NPCs would start resorting to stock phrases but it seems like there's a Lot of Writing here.

adam, Monday, 21 September 2020 19:45 (one month ago) link

the first person i gave nectar to was my skeleton punching bag bro, he brings a lot of good vibes and energy to what is probably a crappy job

adam, Monday, 21 September 2020 19:46 (one month ago) link

i've accidentally given nectar to cerberus like 5 times now. it's easy to do on a gamepad (using PS4 controller with my mac) because Pet is L2 and gift is R2

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 20:47 (one month ago) link

i find myself using the Chaos trapdoor more often, too, especially when it's the one near the beginning. some of those early-game rewards can be really powerful later

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 20:48 (one month ago) link

I stopped playing Dead Cells after a weekend, but this seems a little more forgiving?

Pleeenk Floyd (Leee), Monday, 21 September 2020 20:52 (one month ago) link

i dunno, it gets pretty hard. i mean, with both games (and the genre, by design you're supposed to hit a point where it's too hard and die, at least a few dozen times, so you definitely read THERE IS NO ESCAPE a bunch

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 21:04 (one month ago) link

but counteract with Kith's Short, Dirty, and Spoiler-Free Hades Starter Guide, "for people who want to know the basics of how to fight good and plan ahead without getting spoiled on characters, locations, or the story"

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 21:05 (one month ago) link

one simple thing i was confused about was the Call gauge - I kept on saving it up for a big boss fight, but smartly, it depletes to 0 after every room, so if you have a Call equipped it definitely makes sense to use it!

Karl Malone, Monday, 21 September 2020 21:09 (one month ago) link

This will definitely be too hard for me but it's cool, and hey you can pet Cerberus

lukas, Monday, 21 September 2020 21:20 (one month ago) link

two things i really like:

- "One must imagine Sisyphus happy", and they did! took me a while to make the connection but it's lovely
- i love the freedom of movement in this game, from the very beginning. the dash takes you right through walls, and except for the flames in Asphodel, it's setup so you can't "mess up" or take fall damage. very godlike controls, overall.

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 23:59 (one month ago) link

I got this yesterday afternoon and somehow played it for like 6 hours. Not much to say that hasn’t been said, but yeah, it’s good. This is kinda how I wished the too-unchallenging Diablo 3 played.

circa1916, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 12:44 (one month ago) link

I still don’t quite understand how the Calls work.

circa1916, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 12:45 (one month ago) link

shit, i meant to respond to that a couple days ago! you probably already figured it out, but once you get a Call (via a boon), your God Gauge fills up every time to you take a hit, and when it passes a threshold you can trigger the Call. what i didn't realize for an embarrassing amount of time was that the God Gauge drains at the end of each battle, so there's no point in "saving" the gauge for the next fight, you should definitely use them as much as possible

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 21:17 (four weeks ago) link

this game is so great that i kind of assume no one's posting here because you're all poopsocking hades

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 21:17 (four weeks ago) link

i think my favorite call is Ares? the one that turns you into a giant human spinning Rift for a few seconds? that one can be lethal on bosses. i feel like the Aphrodite call, the one that charms the enemy for a few seconds, could also potentially be very powerful.

also, i am on the verge of tears because i've died to (what i think is) the final boss like 4 times in a row when they were down to a sliver of health. sometimes it's because my build is weak, but other times it's total manual user error, flipping out with nerves. i feel like i'm on the edge of beating it, though. 37 hours in so far.

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 21:22 (four weeks ago) link

it's amazing to me how fresh each new run feels, and how the daedalus hammers combined with the boons can lead to totally different experiences with the same 6 weapons. i'm torn because the gun has gotten me to the end boss every single time i've used it, but it's also my least favorite weapon to use in terms of fun.

surprisingly, i think the melee/dual fists are my current favorite (again in terms of fun, not effectiveness) it has a cool alternate version you can unlock with titan blood, too, that makes your special pull in enemies from afar to right next to your character there is a boon for it that makes the dash-strike "combine" into the regular attack combo, which basically means you can pull off a nearly infinite punching and dash-striking combo that is nearly unstoppable if you also have deflect built into it.

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 21:30 (four weeks ago) link

i think the melee and gun are powerful (for me at least) because they're both rapid fire attacks so it's really easy to add boon effects that trigger with every individual strike (like lightning, or effects you can stack like chill or poison). and same deal with the shield, which has a special that can easily be modified to strike multiple times, triggering side-effects with each hit.

so those are mainstays that are almost always possible, if you make a point of building that direction. but i love running into unexpected playstyles, being forced to try them out essentially, that are like mini-games in their own. for example, my last heartbreaking run was with that one laser beam cast (forget which god), but later on i added another effect which made the lasers target ME instead of the direction i initially placed them. the lasers didn't hurt me, but they did follow me, which meant i had to place the lasers on the edge of the playing area, then run into the middle, so that the enemy was caught in the laser crossfire as it swept across to the center. hard to explain, and i'm not sure i'd try to get that build again, but also delightful and occasionally really powerful when i was taking advantage of it properly.

i love that the underlying system of hades upgrades makes that kind of run possible almost 40 hours in, it's great

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 21:36 (four weeks ago) link

18 escapes attempted. 0 times getting past Theseus and the bull. I really want to stop playing but I also just unlocked the gun ...

lukas, Saturday, 26 September 2020 04:51 (three weeks ago) link

For me, the short-range weapons like the gloves or the sword are great for other enemies, but I have a hard time fighting the bosses with them, as the bosses have many ways of hurting you if you get too close... So the only way I've been able to consistently get past the third boss and into the endgame is to use the bow, whose special attack (a spread of arrows) is awesome if you add some extra damaging effects to it. That, combined with the boon from Zeus that makes your cast into a chain lightning, seems to be the best way to bombard the bosses from a distance while trying to avoid their attacks. The spread of arrows also makes the three witches chamber on the second level a piece of cake, which it doesn't seem to be with the other weapons?

Tuomas, Saturday, 26 September 2020 09:28 (three weeks ago) link

*hugs thread*

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:27 (three weeks ago) link

fwiw lukas, i'm at about 38 attempts now, but i was at theseus/minotaur at around the same time as you (15-20 attempts in i think), and unlocked the gun around the same time. my very first time with the adamant rail, i made it all the way to the endboss.

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:29 (three weeks ago) link

xp tuomas i initially felt the same with the weapons, like i needed something long-range to survive. but over time i've figured out how to effectively use the others as well (note that i still haven't beaten the damn game, though i've come close!).

i think for the bosses, particularly the late game, it's pretty essential to have at least one good long range option (whether that's the weapon intself, or a cast or a beefed up special) but also essential to have an attack that lets you get in close and deal tons of damage in a short time (while they're vulnerable). for me, so far, that close attack often seems to involve a dash-strike that repels, or some other sort of chained attack where i can be almost invulnerable for a short period.

some of my best runs, against the bosses, are the opposite of ranged - i'm just dashing through and around the boss, invulnerable for almost the entire time. of course, at some point the intermittent damage adds up to death, as i still haven't won this way!

then again, in other runs i'm hovering on the edges, picking my spots and being extremely careful, and also getting very close.

ok i need to play hades now

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:35 (three weeks ago) link

I'm kind of conflicted in getting the game! On the one hand, I'm tired of hard games and my consoles are littered with barely played rogue likes. OTOH the near universal praise and reviews like this paint it to be a possible exception for me? https://kotaku.com/i-guess-i-actually-like-roguelikes-now-1845131675

Sorry to be wishy washy!

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:03 (three weeks ago) link

hahaha

honestly, it does lean toward being a "hard" game. it is not as difficult as celeste - just throwing that out as a reference, if you've played it.

i'm tempted to try to compare it to the difficulty of dark souls games, but they're just too different. i've never gotten to the end of a dark souls game, because i always get stuck on some boss 25 hours in and get so frustrated that i quit. there are similar boss obstacles in Hades, but the difference is that there aren't nearly so many. for me, the Escalating Series of Bosses model is much more manageable when it's only a handful, as opposed to the dozens in a dark souls game.

all the same, the actual gameplay of Hades is consistently engaging but challenging - if you don't pay attention, you can quickly take a beating. it's not the kind of game you'd recommend to a newcomer to videogames, it kind of has prerequisites. (note that i'm talking about adults. obviously 6-year-olds can pick up anything and master it within a week due to their god-like abilities boons)

the thing is, leee, i think you'd like all the OTHER things about it - it's just so polished and well-done, i'm actually still interested in some of the sub-plots, 40 hours in, as they are dished out to me in small doses every once in a while. the persona of hades is very close to an unrepentant version of the grumpy dad in God of War. the difference is, instead of wanting to murder the little boy in the God of War's boat, instead you ARE the little boy, but you're trying to murder your dad, and he definitely deserves it, and the god of war is called Ares and he can upgrade your cast spell so that it shoots out spinning black-hole rifts

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:16 (three weeks ago) link

condensed down to a recommendation for your CNN appearance later:

  • it's only $25, which to use an increasingly overused 2020 adjective, is "generous".
  • worth checking out even if you're on the fence, just know that dying is part of the cycle of existence

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:20 (three weeks ago) link

sorry, CNN, the $25 itself is not generous, i just mean that the game itself is very generous. like, given how much enjoyment i've already gotten out of it (even if i never play it again, starting...tomorrow), i think i would pay $140 for this game

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:21 (three weeks ago) link

Thanks Karl! That's definitely food for thought.

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:40 (three weeks ago) link

the downbeat atmosphere draws me in quite a bit, i love how much of the voice-acting is calm and quiet. details like that keep me interested even though i'm not great at the game, kinda like a difficult book with a really nice cover

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Saturday, 26 September 2020 19:49 (three weeks ago) link

had fun playing with dad in the front yard. i'm just gonna admit that i'm s spear guy. it's the only weapon that makes sense to me.

(ie, i haven't figured out how to get the same dps from anything else - the spear special is the only way i know to reliably backstab in chaotic situations.)

pierced butterfly is nice, wearing it when meeting the person who gives it to you is cool too.

lukas, Saturday, 26 September 2020 22:15 (three weeks ago) link

i have a different take on what "there is no escape means" now, a much ... darker take

lukas, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:28 (three weeks ago) link

okay the fists can be cool. i shouldn't evaluate weapons after trying them only once or twice, because boons.

lukas, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:50 (three weeks ago) link

It's really annoying that bull rush can't clear the smallest barrier or gap. Am I missing something?

lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 00:07 (three weeks ago) link

KM is chilling on Olympus

lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 00:08 (three weeks ago) link

sorta! i have defeated it 3 times now. there is so much to say. suffice to say, the post-game is very excellent. like, i'm not sure i've ever been tempted to hang around long after beating a game, but i seriously feel like i'm just getting started. poopsocks left behind on olympus

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 03:20 (three weeks ago) link

only click this if you want to learn the secret name of the hydra

it rhymes with journey

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 03:33 (three weeks ago) link

had my first clear today but it was pretty cheesy - running in circles while my health regen'd, dropping crystals, waiting for athena's invulnerability call to charge so I could run in and do a bunch of damage.

the moment when I realized this might work (reached the final guy without any DD) was one of my favorite moments playing videogames ever.

lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 05:53 (three weeks ago) link

I haven't finished the second stage of the final boss yet, but I made a similar discovery about Athena's deflecting boons being the best way to neutralise the ridiculous area attacks in the fight... I wonder if there's any other way to do it for someone like me who doesn't have fast enough reflexes to dodge the attacks?

Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 11:48 (three weeks ago) link

I made the plunge! It's already more engaging than the other rogues I've played, definitely because of the dating sim elements, though the voice acting and writing both deserve praise as well.

I've gotten as far as Asphodel, and have beaten Meg once, using the shield, which makes me feel like Captain America.

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Monday, 28 September 2020 15:26 (three weeks ago) link

you're well on your way!

there is sooooo much to discover in the game. i read a review about being 40 hours and huge, interesting, gamechanging (potentially) systems unlocking, and that's very true. and also, the path to 40 hours is also filled with all sorts of things to find along the way.

this is a very, VERY polished game. it's obvious that they put a lot of thought into what is interesting and compelling at each stage of the game - absolute beginner, working your way up to the boss, and also what happens afterward. if anything, i am MORE compelled after beating the game than i was at the beginning, which is kind of disturbing and has seriously ruined my life the last couple weeks!

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 16:28 (three weeks ago) link

the music in this game is really awesome and there's the correct amount of it.

the game this reminds me of most is disgaea 1 on the ps2. in the sense that you go out and do your mission then come back to the underworld hub and chat with all your dudes. like karl said the loop is really satisfying and the characterization is done well (and there's the correct amount of it).

adam, Monday, 28 September 2020 16:43 (three weeks ago) link

SHIT

DON'T READ THAT!

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 17:05 (three weeks ago) link

messed up the spoiler tag, getting mod assistance now, sorry

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 17:06 (three weeks ago) link

The difficulty hasn't bothered me so far, either! I'm not sure if it's genuinely not as hard as I feared or if it has so many other objectives that are within my grasp and thus distracting me from the difficulty.

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Monday, 28 September 2020 17:35 (three weeks ago) link

that's good!

like so many other things in this game, i think the difficulty curve is perfectly tuned. it's well-tuned for single runs because no matter how good you are, you're going to be able to clear the first few rooms (probably - i mean the one time my mom played a videogame was SMB1, and she stood perfectly still on the left side of the screen for almost the entirety of the time limit, and then when the hurry the fuck up! music started and i told her she was going to die, she ran to the right and immediately hit the very first goomba. then she got mad and said she would never play a game again, and then hasn't for the last 32+ years). most likely, you'll get a little bit further each time through, and when you die it rarely* feels like you got totally screwed, and you'll probably feel like if you tried again you'd do better.

the difficulty curve is also well-tuned on a macro scale. hard to explain without spoilers but very true, i think

* except for those fucking poisonous rats godDAMMIT

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 17:47 (three weeks ago) link

So my strategy has been to chose the one god's keepsake who's basic boon I really want to have for the first level, as the Furies are pretty easy to beat without dying once you've levelled up, then change for Skelly's keepsake for the other levels.

Tuomas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:29 (three weeks ago) link

Thanatos keepsake is my favorite as I've mentioned - maxed it gives +2% damage for every encounter your clear without taking damage. gives an incentive to stay on your toes in otherwise relaxed encounters. I've gotten as high as +26%.

lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:47 (three weeks ago) link

I guess if I ever start planning builds in advance I'll have to switch to a god's keepsake yeah. ugh.

lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:48 (three weeks ago) link

seriously it's real fun to complete an insane Asphodel or Elysium encounter and unexpectedly get the +2% notification.

lukas, Monday, 28 September 2020 19:49 (three weeks ago) link

Specifically the WHAT!?

― Dan I., Monday, September 28, 2020 2:22 PM (seven minutes ago)

lol, in the chaos of trying to post that post, i also forgot to complete that thought! lol, what a fucking disaster

some of the more useful keepsakes for hades (the boss), SPECIFICALLY, are:

  • Lucky Tooth (grants you a one-time revive when you die, up to 100 HP depending on how leveled it is)
  • Distant Memory (up to 30% ranged damage, only useful for certain builds of course)
  • Bone Hourglass (this one is more out of the box and might not even work very well (sorry), but every once in a while you might have a run where you can give it a shot. it extends the number of encounters that you can use items purchased from Charon (either in person or at one of blue shops). the idea is to use it during Elysium (or maybe even for the Cerberus/Hades section as well), buying a bunch of buffs near the end (just before Theseus and the Minotaur), and then rushing through Cerberus so that buffs still apply when you fight Hades.
  • honestly one of the best things (the best thing?) about this game is that almost all of the keepsakes can be useful for the final boss, in certain ways, depending on your own preferences, aiming toward certain builds, trying to accomplish some of the bounties/heat conditions, and the luck of the draw. i'm at 55 attempts now, and almost every single one has felt different, and i feel very encouraged to try out ridiculous strategies (like the bone hourglass one above)
  • now i'm just using bullet points for no reason, but another weird/fun thing you all should try is spending NO money! there are various boons and mirror options to help increase the amount of money you get, but you need a little luck to really take advantage. if you use the first weapon, Stygian Blade, one of the Daedalus upgrades you can get is called Hoarding Slash: "Your Attack deals bonus damage equal to 5% of your current gold". that might not sound like much, until you think about having 2000+ gold while you fight Hades - very useful to be dealing an extra 100 damage on the final boss!

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 20:05 (three weeks ago) link

here is my ULTIMATE QUESTION for you all, the one i really wanted to know:

do you use the "you have multiple casts but you have to go pick them up after you throw them" mirror option, or the "you have 1 cast, but it autoreplenishes so you don't have to go pick it up" option?

i have to admit that once i switched to autoreplenish, i never went back. i think it probably makes sense to go chase it for other playstyles, though - for example, there's a spear Aspect that changes the special so that after you throw the spear you can sprint forward to retrieve it, rather than pulling it back to you (as default). if you were already doing that, it might make a lot of sense to aim your special in the same area as your cast, so that when you sprint toward it you also pick up your cast at the same time

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 20:10 (three weeks ago) link

i really need to get back to work, but one final thing i've recently realized is that there is a balancing point between the damage you deal and your HP. it's natural to be focused on conserving/regaining your HP when you're purchasing things or picking a boon. but if you're about to face dad and you can only pick one thing (or door, in the Cerberus labyrinth thing, (or item, at Charon's last shop)), it often makes more sense to pick something that gives you a boost to damage, rather than your health, because when you hit him harder, you're also taking less overall damage by the end because you can defeat him more quickly.

Karl Malone, Monday, 28 September 2020 20:14 (three weeks ago) link

finally beat theseus and the minotaur this morning with a high-damage doom fists/athena call build that left me with 1 hit point and 0 death defiances going into the next area. lasted a little while but still lots to figure out.

the fists aspect with the scorpion get over here special is awesome

adam, Thursday, 1 October 2020 13:12 (three weeks ago) link

Dear Bone Hydra,
You are a butthead.

Yours,
Zag

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 3 October 2020 18:49 (two weeks ago) link

How have you been making out so far, Leee?

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 18:51 (two weeks ago) link

just beat the game for the first time. adamant rail with the MIRV mod and a shitload of doom, chill on the attack, heroic athena dash, ares call. got to the last boss with 4 death defiances and just kited while spamming AOE damage. good shit. love this game.

adam, Saturday, 3 October 2020 18:56 (two weeks ago) link

I just made it to Bone Hydra, and I have one last weapon to unlock. I'm also stockpiling darkness till either I have a surplus of keys to unlock more abilities or I can level up my death defiance.

Otherwise, I'm trying to collect nectar.

Is there any way to tell which boons/upgrades I haven't used yet while I'm escaping? Maybe I'm still a little too underleveled to worry about min-maxing my fated list, though.

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Saturday, 3 October 2020 21:21 (two weeks ago) link

There is a way! When you have an option for a boon that’s on the fated list, a little scroll icon will appear next to the name of it.

But I’d say don’t worry too much about completing all those, because you’ll end up using them all eventually just by playing. a boon that seems really bad on one run may be essential with a different weapon

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 21:33 (two weeks ago) link

got to the bull of minos for the first time on my first run with the adamant rail. seems like a much easier weapon than the others, but the fists are so fun

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:06 (two weeks ago) link

i thought adamant was overpowered the first time i used it, too, but in returning to it i've sometimes struggled!

also, the bow is by far the hardest for me! it seems really strong at the beginning but underpowered by the end. every time i make it work, it's by pairing it with a dash-strike boon and just spamming the crap out of it. granting, i do that sometimes too with other weapons, but i don't feel as forced into it as i do with the bow

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:14 (two weeks ago) link

the aspect where the special flurry arrows all target the last-attacked enemy allows for a little more tactical thinking imo

adam, Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:29 (two weeks ago) link

i only tried that aspect once, and did very poorly with it! i don't think i was being very tactful with it, though. i remember being frustrated that the arrows kept targeting enemies that were already dead, so i think i was changing targets too quickly

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:33 (two weeks ago) link

Bow is my least favorite weapon. Feels like it takes forever to clear a room with that thing.

circa1916, Saturday, 3 October 2020 23:07 (two weeks ago) link

That's my feeling too. It requires more finesse and less running around like a cat on fire.

I beat the Bone Hydra! And unlocked my first set of additional abilities! An he played around with weapon aspects! I.e. all the little unlockables are what make this game approachable.

Kaliningrad Oberst (Leee), Sunday, 4 October 2020 15:56 (two weeks ago) link

How does Stubborn Defiance work? It sez once per chamber, but does that mean level (e.g. Tartarus) or once per room/encounter? Because functionally it seems like the latter.

Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Sunday, 4 October 2020 18:19 (two weeks ago) link

stubborn defiance works once per encounter, and there's no limit to the number of times it works.

death defiance is limited (starts with 1, but you can level it up to 3 using the mirror), but heals more.

i always tend to die on the bosses, not the encounters, so i almost always go with death defiance (if you have that plus the leveled up keepsake that gives you another life, you have up to 4 revives against the final boss).

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Sunday, 4 October 2020 19:06 (two weeks ago) link

Stubborn doesn't work against bosses, either?

I've bought most of the renovations from the House Contractor, an he the only things left are upgrading troves and urn drops, which don't seem that useful. Am I underestimating them or can I just trade them in for keys?

Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Sunday, 4 October 2020 19:19 (two weeks ago) link

Stubborn doesn't work against bosses, either?

stubborn works against bosses, but only once, and it will only heal you up to 30%. compare that to death defiance, where you can get revived three different times against a boss, and at 50% each time. this thread has some good discussion on stubborn vs death defiance, but it's full of post-game considerations so maybe read it later! :)

I've bought most of the renovations from the House Contractor, an he the only things left are upgrading troves and urn drops, which don't seem that useful.

i thought that at first too, but the upgraded troves can be very useful, in multiple ways. the most useful is that an upgraded trove can give you up to 150 darkness. if you have Dark Regeneration (up to 90% of Darkness you collect restores your health by that amount), you'll get like 50+60 more HP per trove than before.

idkwtf (Karl Malone), Sunday, 4 October 2020 19:25 (two weeks ago) link

I went with that loadout and did pretty well!

One thing I didn't think through though was when I was approaching the halfway(?) point in Elysium with the Stygian Blade, I was low on health and had already used up my Death Defiances. I got a Daedalus Hammer and had a chance to go with Cursed Slash, but went with something else. I instantly regretted it, and lasted only one encounter more.

Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Monday, 5 October 2020 18:18 (two weeks ago) link

Absolutely had the experience of giving into the hype about the game--spent an hour or so with it, thought, "well, the art and aesthetic and voice acting are cool but the gameplay just doesn't feel great." ended up sitting on it for like five hours, fell in love with it. Similar to Karl's experience way above, I (think?) I've gotten to the final boss a few times but have died having their health down to a sliver. Same deal I had with Sekiro: get boss close to death, immediately stop thinking clearly and go into adrenaline mode and fuck up.

The build I had that I did the best with had a lot to do with dash knocking enemies back, and cornered/walled enemies taking more damage. Honestly seemed *broken* good.

unashamed and trash (Unctious), Tuesday, 6 October 2020 18:12 (two weeks ago) link

i think i can only come up with two criticisms of this game

1) eurydice's song sounds like evanescence
2) the dash-strike and related boons seems a little too powerful. i mean, it feels good, like Unctious says. but it's so reliably effective that many of my builds seem to feature it, so i spend a lot of my time in the later fights dashing around like a maniac 95% of the fight. especially if you have Athena's deflect on it - instead of dodging, it becomes easier to just dash straight in and be in a state of near-constant invulnerability, while inflicting curse and other statuses. it is very, very fun, but seems more dominant than intended?

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 6 October 2020 18:31 (two weeks ago) link

I actually like Eurydice's song!

Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Tuesday, 6 October 2020 18:40 (two weeks ago) link

you must keep going if you wish to hear the true version of it

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 6 October 2020 18:54 (two weeks ago) link

i think the shield is bad now

adam, Tuesday, 6 October 2020 19:24 (two weeks ago) link

Wow the gun sucks so much, I hate it

Dan I., Saturday, 10 October 2020 18:47 (one week ago) link

So wrong

circa1916, Saturday, 10 October 2020 22:41 (one week ago) link

Reached Theseus! Asterius gave me a whupping though.

Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Saturday, 10 October 2020 23:17 (one week ago) link

awesome!

here's a really fun strategy you can try with Theseus/Minotaur (no spoilers):

try to get the Aphrodite Call (the one that charms the enemies) and also a way to increase your god gauge a little faster. then, when you get to that boss fight, charm the living fuck out of them so that one of them is always fighting the other. if you save up the god gauge a little, you can even inflict charm on both of them at the same time, so they're both attacking each other while you're attacking them. fun to pit one eternal ally against the other

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Sunday, 11 October 2020 00:06 (one week ago) link

question about Charon, hidden behind spoilers because i think this would be a late-game thing

has anyone beaten him in combat? i've tried it twice and managed to whittle him down to 1/3 health each time, but both times i was very early on and didn't have very good boons yet

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:01 (one week ago) link

I beat Theseus! I think the important boons I had were Artemis's and Aphrodite's; Artemis's one that shoots heat-seeking arrows every time you attack was probably the MVP. Then got as far as Hades, put him down, and thought, "That was surprisingly easy." Cue: his second form, and dying.

Fisherman's Worf (Leee), Sunday, 11 October 2020 23:16 (one week ago) link

once you beat hades we should do a rank the gods

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Sunday, 11 October 2020 23:23 (one week ago) link

I finally beat this, twice, with the shield. shield is good

Dan I., Monday, 12 October 2020 01:04 (one week ago) link

Does anyone know how big the actual voice acting script was?

unashamed and trash (Unctious), Monday, 12 October 2020 13:41 (one week ago) link

Any point in getting keys after I've unlocked so weapons and mirror skills?

I want to luhbahguh babum gum (Leee), Sunday, 18 October 2020 20:06 (five days ago) link

you can trade them for nectar (5:1 i think), and also it can be useful to get them during gameplay because they can restore your...fated persuasion? forgot what the mirror name is, but the one that lets you re-roll for more boon choices

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Sunday, 18 October 2020 20:16 (five days ago) link

you can trade them with the wretched broker for nectar or occasionally titan blood

bridge of donkeys, Sunday, 18 October 2020 20:18 (five days ago) link

almost 100 hours in, i finally unlocked one of those 6 giant COMPANION things at the bottom of the keepsakes. seems like a gamechanger, at the least the one i got!

^hidden aspect of hades

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Sunday, 18 October 2020 21:07 (five days ago) link

Getting my repaired Switch back in a few days, I can't wait to dive into this.

american primitive stylophone (zchyrs), Monday, 19 October 2020 16:55 (four days ago) link

This game is so much fun. Really struggling to get to grips with the bow/rail gun though, the only two I haven’t completed a run with. Love the Poseidon boons which power up the dash and create waves when you smash enemies off the walls. How fast are people completing runs? My best is 21:25 so far

crisp, Monday, 19 October 2020 17:03 (four days ago) link

my best is around 21 as well, but i haven't yet gone for a total speedrun yet - i usually do some extra chambers before cerberus to get some extra boons or poms.

Really struggling to get to grips with the bow/rail gun though

rail gun is my best, and bow is my worst! which is weird because i think they often should have similar strategies. the main attack on both is high-speed but relatively low damage per hit, so a really helpful thing is to get a boon that amplifies it (dionysus/poison, maybe zeus/lightning, or aphrodite/weak. when you get one of those, you're suddenly doing the weapon damage plus the boon effect, and the DPS starts ramping up quickly! there are also some really good Duo boons that lets you do extra damage when an enemy is weak, poisoned, etc. if you can get both poison AND weak, and then a duo that amplifies both of those at the same time, you'll be unstoppable

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Monday, 19 October 2020 17:10 (four days ago) link

i think that strategy ^above^ works well for the rail gun, but maybe that's because the rail gun is good for focusing attack on a single enemy, which is great for bosses.

the bow has that same rapid damage thing going, with the special, but it spreads it out across the room. in my bow runs i tend to be really good at clearing out rooms with many enemies and getting to the bosses, but struggle to do a ton of damage to the boss itself.

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Monday, 19 October 2020 17:11 (four days ago) link

I haven't beaten it yet so please discount my two cents as you see fit, but I prefer the melee weapons because I prefer to dash in and button mash then dash away, and the two projectile weapons don't really allow for that.

Anyway, I'm one nectar away from getting all the keepsakes, but that choad Hades keeps avoiding me when I respawn.

I want to luhbahguh babum gum (Leee), Monday, 19 October 2020 17:51 (four days ago) link

I had just about tamped down my election anxiety and was actually doing productive work all day and then I bought this game over the weekend, oops.

My takeaways:
-Such a pleasure to hear some really good (for a videogame and sometimes just plain really good) dialogue and voice acting
-My favorite weapon is the bow, least favorite the gun
-The key to winning is to constantly run around like a lunatic and boy does it make your fingers ache
-I haven't used calls yet because my controller is an old USB Super Nintendo controller knockoff and I'm too lazy to remap the buttons
-The random element of the boon/item system combined with the consistent levels is, like, a masterstroke of game design. I have some favorite boons but the game is so good at leading you down different build paths
-One of the battle music tracks sounds like a song off Michael Brook's Cobalt Blue

avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 08:30 (two days ago) link

Oh yeah one more, my best run was with the spear when I got some boon that chained the special through I think up to 7 multiple enemies + tons of Hangover and Doom + quickshot, I walked into a room and spammed the special button and everything just died.

avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 08:34 (two days ago) link

^ Cosign. Hermes's boons seem like the worst at first, but if you have the spear or the shield, and you get the forge improvement of hitting more enemies while throwing them + the Hermes boon that makes your special faster, you can clear most rooms really fast, and spamming the special works well against all of the bosses as well. For maximum effect, get the Chaos boons that give you extra damage for back attacks, because you're guaranteed to get them a lot with those two weapons.

Yesterday I was playing with the shield, got a legendary Hermes boon to make the special 40 % faster, and was able to beat Theseus and the Minotaur (which is normally the most irritating boss encounter) in a minute or so, cos I could just spam them with the special, and each attack was guaranteed to hit both.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 09:46 (two days ago) link


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