Hades (from Supergiant, maker of Pyre, Bastion, Transistor)

now out of Early Access, this game has kind of ruined my life since i purchased it a few days ago. there's so much to say about it, from how polished and good it is to build ideas, to making fun of Eurydice for being into acoustic Staind songs.

anyone else in hell with me?

RIYL: dead cells, rogue legacy, binding of isaac, good writing and voice acting, being perpetually one 25-minute run away from unlocking something you really want

what is most amazing to me is how they manage to keep things fresh. it is pretty amazing that none of the characters ever repeats themselves, dozens of times in, even though you're interacting with them repeatedly. as all the reviews indicated, it is the kind of game where you're always unlocking something that is interesting, even things that substantially change the way you can play the game, dozens of hours into the game.

I got an hour with this last night, it's very, very slick

Is there any kind of shortcut mechanic? It has all the signs of being a really addictive times ink, but also can see myself repeatedly failing several runs to that first boss and then bouncing off it because I suck at roguelikes

i haven't run across one yet, but i am pretty sure there will be one. i've been _this_ close to beating it (i think).

it's one of those roguelites where you'll be able to gradually improve your base stats (using the mirror in your bedroom) between runs, so i wouldn't feel too bad about losing the first couple times. also, the 6 weapons are very different and encourage different modes of style, so it might help just to try another one out.

i didn't like the shield, in particular, at first, but it can be incredibly powerful and fun with just a few boons

I loved the shield straight away, I had a lightning shield run early on that felt like it was better at being marvel ultimate alliance than marvel ultimate alliance 3 was

yeah the shield is my favorite so far but i've had the greatest success with the spear + wild backstab damage + speed up, throwing it and recalling it (+ backstab each time), dash across the room, repeat.

i was wondering at what point the NPCs would start resorting to stock phrases but it seems like there's a Lot of Writing here.

the first person i gave nectar to was my skeleton punching bag bro, he brings a lot of good vibes and energy to what is probably a crappy job

i've accidentally given nectar to cerberus like 5 times now. it's easy to do on a gamepad (using PS4 controller with my mac) because Pet is L2 and gift is R2

i find myself using the Chaos trapdoor more often, too, especially when it's the one near the beginning. some of those early-game rewards can be really powerful later

I stopped playing Dead Cells after a weekend, but this seems a little more forgiving?

i dunno, it gets pretty hard. i mean, with both games (and the genre, by design you're supposed to hit a point where it's too hard and die, at least a few dozen times, so you definitely read THERE IS NO ESCAPE a bunch

but counteract with Kith's Short, Dirty, and Spoiler-Free Hades Starter Guide, "for people who want to know the basics of how to fight good and plan ahead without getting spoiled on characters, locations, or the story"

one simple thing i was confused about was the Call gauge - I kept on saving it up for a big boss fight, but smartly, it depletes to 0 after every room, so if you have a Call equipped it definitely makes sense to use it!

This will definitely be too hard for me but it's cool, and hey you can pet Cerberus

two things i really like:

- "One must imagine Sisyphus happy", and they did! took me a while to make the connection but it's lovely
- i love the freedom of movement in this game, from the very beginning. the dash takes you right through walls, and except for the flames in Asphodel, it's setup so you can't "mess up" or take fall damage. very godlike controls, overall.

I got this yesterday afternoon and somehow played it for like 6 hours. Not much to say that hasn’t been said, but yeah, it’s good. This is kinda how I wished the too-unchallenging Diablo 3 played.

I still don’t quite understand how the Calls work.

shit, i meant to respond to that a couple days ago! you probably already figured it out, but once you get a Call (via a boon), your God Gauge fills up every time to you take a hit, and when it passes a threshold you can trigger the Call. what i didn't realize for an embarrassing amount of time was that the God Gauge drains at the end of each battle, so there's no point in "saving" the gauge for the next fight, you should definitely use them as much as possible

this game is so great that i kind of assume no one's posting here because you're all poopsocking hades

i think my favorite call is Ares? the one that turns you into a giant human spinning Rift for a few seconds? that one can be lethal on bosses. i feel like the Aphrodite call, the one that charms the enemy for a few seconds, could also potentially be very powerful.

also, i am on the verge of tears because i've died to (what i think is) the final boss like 4 times in a row when they were down to a sliver of health. sometimes it's because my build is weak, but other times it's total manual user error, flipping out with nerves. i feel like i'm on the edge of beating it, though. 37 hours in so far.

it's amazing to me how fresh each new run feels, and how the daedalus hammers combined with the boons can lead to totally different experiences with the same 6 weapons. i'm torn because the gun has gotten me to the end boss every single time i've used it, but it's also my least favorite weapon to use in terms of fun.

surprisingly, i think the melee/dual fists are my current favorite (again in terms of fun, not effectiveness) it has a cool alternate version you can unlock with titan blood, too, that makes your special pull in enemies from afar to right next to your character there is a boon for it that makes the dash-strike "combine" into the regular attack combo, which basically means you can pull off a nearly infinite punching and dash-striking combo that is nearly unstoppable if you also have deflect built into it.

i think the melee and gun are powerful (for me at least) because they're both rapid fire attacks so it's really easy to add boon effects that trigger with every individual strike (like lightning, or effects you can stack like chill or poison). and same deal with the shield, which has a special that can easily be modified to strike multiple times, triggering side-effects with each hit.

so those are mainstays that are almost always possible, if you make a point of building that direction. but i love running into unexpected playstyles, being forced to try them out essentially, that are like mini-games in their own. for example, my last heartbreaking run was with that one laser beam cast (forget which god), but later on i added another effect which made the lasers target ME instead of the direction i initially placed them. the lasers didn't hurt me, but they did follow me, which meant i had to place the lasers on the edge of the playing area, then run into the middle, so that the enemy was caught in the laser crossfire as it swept across to the center. hard to explain, and i'm not sure i'd try to get that build again, but also delightful and occasionally really powerful when i was taking advantage of it properly.

i love that the underlying system of hades upgrades makes that kind of run possible almost 40 hours in, it's great

18 escapes attempted. 0 times getting past Theseus and the bull. I really want to stop playing but I also just unlocked the gun ...

For me, the short-range weapons like the gloves or the sword are great for other enemies, but I have a hard time fighting the bosses with them, as the bosses have many ways of hurting you if you get too close... So the only way I've been able to consistently get past the third boss and into the endgame is to use the bow, whose special attack (a spread of arrows) is awesome if you add some extra damaging effects to it. That, combined with the boon from Zeus that makes your cast into a chain lightning, seems to be the best way to bombard the bosses from a distance while trying to avoid their attacks. The spread of arrows also makes the three witches chamber on the second level a piece of cake, which it doesn't seem to be with the other weapons?

*hugs thread*

fwiw lukas, i'm at about 38 attempts now, but i was at theseus/minotaur at around the same time as you (15-20 attempts in i think), and unlocked the gun around the same time. my very first time with the adamant rail, i made it all the way to the endboss.

xp tuomas i initially felt the same with the weapons, like i needed something long-range to survive. but over time i've figured out how to effectively use the others as well (note that i still haven't beaten the damn game, though i've come close!).

i think for the bosses, particularly the late game, it's pretty essential to have at least one good long range option (whether that's the weapon intself, or a cast or a beefed up special) but also essential to have an attack that lets you get in close and deal tons of damage in a short time (while they're vulnerable). for me, so far, that close attack often seems to involve a dash-strike that repels, or some other sort of chained attack where i can be almost invulnerable for a short period.

some of my best runs, against the bosses, are the opposite of ranged - i'm just dashing through and around the boss, invulnerable for almost the entire time. of course, at some point the intermittent damage adds up to death, as i still haven't won this way!

then again, in other runs i'm hovering on the edges, picking my spots and being extremely careful, and also getting very close.

ok i need to play hades now

I'm kind of conflicted in getting the game! On the one hand, I'm tired of hard games and my consoles are littered with barely played rogue likes. OTOH the near universal praise and reviews like this paint it to be a possible exception for me? https://kotaku.com/i-guess-i-actually-like-roguelikes-now-1845131675

Sorry to be wishy washy!

hahaha

honestly, it does lean toward being a "hard" game. it is not as difficult as celeste - just throwing that out as a reference, if you've played it.

i'm tempted to try to compare it to the difficulty of dark souls games, but they're just too different. i've never gotten to the end of a dark souls game, because i always get stuck on some boss 25 hours in and get so frustrated that i quit. there are similar boss obstacles in Hades, but the difference is that there aren't nearly so many. for me, the Escalating Series of Bosses model is much more manageable when it's only a handful, as opposed to the dozens in a dark souls game.

all the same, the actual gameplay of Hades is consistently engaging but challenging - if you don't pay attention, you can quickly take a beating. it's not the kind of game you'd recommend to a newcomer to videogames, it kind of has prerequisites. (note that i'm talking about adults. obviously 6-year-olds can pick up anything and master it within a week due to their god-like abilities boons)

the thing is, leee, i think you'd like all the OTHER things about it - it's just so polished and well-done, i'm actually still interested in some of the sub-plots, 40 hours in, as they are dished out to me in small doses every once in a while. the persona of hades is very close to an unrepentant version of the grumpy dad in God of War. the difference is, instead of wanting to murder the little boy in the God of War's boat, instead you ARE the little boy, but you're trying to murder your dad, and he definitely deserves it, and the god of war is called Ares and he can upgrade your cast spell so that it shoots out spinning black-hole rifts

condensed down to a recommendation for your CNN appearance later:

• it's only $25, which to use an increasingly overused 2020 adjective, is "generous".
• worth checking out even if you're on the fence, just know that dying is part of the cycle of existence

sorry, CNN, the $25 itself is not generous, i just mean that the game itself is very generous. like, given how much enjoyment i've already gotten out of it (even if i never play it again, starting...tomorrow), i think i would pay $140 for this game

Thanks Karl! That's definitely food for thought.

the downbeat atmosphere draws me in quite a bit, i love how much of the voice-acting is calm and quiet. details like that keep me interested even though i'm not great at the game, kinda like a difficult book with a really nice cover

had fun playing with dad in the front yard. i'm just gonna admit that i'm s spear guy. it's the only weapon that makes sense to me.

(ie, i haven't figured out how to get the same dps from anything else - the spear special is the only way i know to reliably backstab in chaotic situations.)

pierced butterfly is nice, wearing it when meeting the person who gives it to you is cool too.

i have a different take on what "there is no escape means" now, a much ... darker take

okay the fists can be cool. i shouldn't evaluate weapons after trying them only once or twice, because boons.

It's really annoying that bull rush can't clear the smallest barrier or gap. Am I missing something?

KM is chilling on Olympus

sorta! i have defeated it 3 times now. there is so much to say. suffice to say, the post-game is very excellent. like, i'm not sure i've ever been tempted to hang around long after beating a game, but i seriously feel like i'm just getting started. poopsocks left behind on olympus

only click this if you want to learn the secret name of the hydra

it rhymes with journey

had my first clear today but it was pretty cheesy - running in circles while my health regen'd, dropping crystals, waiting for athena's invulnerability call to charge so I could run in and do a bunch of damage.

the moment when I realized this might work (reached the final guy without any DD) was one of my favorite moments playing videogames ever.

I haven't finished the second stage of the final boss yet, but I made a similar discovery about Athena's deflecting boons being the best way to neutralise the ridiculous area attacks in the fight... I wonder if there's any other way to do it for someone like me who doesn't have fast enough reflexes to dodge the attacks?

I made the plunge! It's already more engaging than the other rogues I've played, definitely because of the dating sim elements, though the voice acting and writing both deserve praise as well.

I've gotten as far as Asphodel, and have beaten Meg once, using the shield, which makes me feel like Captain America.

you're well on your way!

there is sooooo much to discover in the game. i read a review about being 40 hours and huge, interesting, gamechanging (potentially) systems unlocking, and that's very true. and also, the path to 40 hours is also filled with all sorts of things to find along the way.

this is a very, VERY polished game. it's obvious that they put a lot of thought into what is interesting and compelling at each stage of the game - absolute beginner, working your way up to the boss, and also what happens afterward. if anything, i am MORE compelled after beating the game than i was at the beginning, which is kind of disturbing and has seriously ruined my life the last couple weeks!

the music in this game is really awesome and there's the correct amount of it.

the game this reminds me of most is disgaea 1 on the ps2. in the sense that you go out and do your mission then come back to the underworld hub and chat with all your dudes. like karl said the loop is really satisfying and the characterization is done well (and there's the correct amount of it).

SHIT

DON'T READ THAT!

messed up the spoiler tag, getting mod assistance now, sorry

The difficulty hasn't bothered me so far, either! I'm not sure if it's genuinely not as hard as I feared or if it has so many other objectives that are within my grasp and thus distracting me from the difficulty.

that's good!

like so many other things in this game, i think the difficulty curve is perfectly tuned. it's well-tuned for single runs because no matter how good you are, you're going to be able to clear the first few rooms (probably - i mean the one time my mom played a videogame was SMB1, and she stood perfectly still on the left side of the screen for almost the entirety of the time limit, and then when the hurry the fuck up! music started and i told her she was going to die, she ran to the right and immediately hit the very first goomba. then she got mad and said she would never play a game again, and then hasn't for the last 32+ years). most likely, you'll get a little bit further each time through, and when you die it rarely* feels like you got totally screwed, and you'll probably feel like if you tried again you'd do better.

the difficulty curve is also well-tuned on a macro scale. hard to explain without spoilers but very true, i think

* except for those fucking poisonous rats godDAMMIT

Josh, aren't you curious? Don't you want to at least take it for a spin?

I'll get it at that price.

switch or ps4? does it matter?

oh shit i guess it DOES matter huh

okay, got slay the spire, hades, pan-pan and flame in the flood for $40. Seems like a good haul!

I'm curious enough that I bought it, ha! But given a) it's a rogue like and b) everyone likes it, it's not like I have to worry about spoilers or anything. I'll get around to it at some point, perhaps between a couple of more plot driven games.

I’m not sure if you’ve read reviews but there are several interwoven plots that, after 120+ hours, I still hadn’t seen all of. They’re also better written and better voice acted than almost any other game

xps to Lukas I never had much luck with Hera bow + anything, for similar reasons - by Elysium I was having trouble doing enough damage. Doom leveled up a few times often seemed to help

Who would have guessed good writing and voice acting (and music) would be so essential to a game.

it certainly helps! :) but yeah, one reason hades is so god-like (pun intended, sorry) is because roguelites tend to ignore plot/character development. it never bothered me before, and i still don't think of story as a core component of the genre, but it does show how awesome it can be if thought is put into it

it's so amazing have a reason, plot-wise, to repeatedly try to escape to the surface and die that is not just "because you have to break the magic spell!!" or whatever

this game gets a thumbs up

I think I might jump back into this now that I've got Fire Emblem done. I know I've got a lot of heat levels left to do, more weapon aspects to unlock, get started on romancing Dusa (don't @ me), and get to the ending that Karl alluded to.

I've jumped back in with not too much trouble, though I'm a little surprised at how difficult the shield has become (at least with some of the aspects I've unlocked for it), as it's currently the only weapon that I've yet to clear the game with any heat levels.

Also, is there an in-game way to review the story so far? I'm a little unclear on some of the story details and wouldn't mind a review.

the only Supergiant game I haven't played is Transistor. DOWNLOADING NOW

this game has become a problem for me. i'm addicted.

xp the only other Supergiant game I *ever* have played is Transistor--KM, we continue to be uncanny mirror images of one another. Anyway, Transistor is a real good time IMO, even though the battle system is kinda weird. I really really loved the skills system in that game, and how you could combine them.

So...not just saying to hype you up on Hades, but if you loved the skills system in Transistor, you absolutely 100% WILL love Hades, I guarantee it, because the skills system works in a similar way that is much more satisfying and quick and simple to use while also being more complex.

Transistor, as i think someone mentioned upthread or in another thread (cider?) is the supergiant game that has the strongest connection to hades. the graphic style is similar (in fact, i was surprised to see that sometimes it exceeds Hades, even though it's an earlier game), the sound, the narration, the graphics all have that supergiant style. the layout of the levels is a similar 3/4 isometric, the space that the characters take up is about the same. and i'm loving it so far - about 8 hours in.

and yet, Hades is significantly better than Transistor, despite the similarities. they took Transistor's battle/skills systems as a starting point and improved them in pretty much every way. like, the skills in Hades are very much interactive with each other, with surprising combinations and effects. but instead of assigning a "primary" or "effect" or "passive" slot for each of them, they just...work with each other. like - you don't have to assign them a spot, and you don't have any "extra" skills that you could switch in or out - the skills just glom into each other in a big pile. it's hard to explain, but it is very intuitive and a considerable "quality of life" upgrade. instead of winning a fight (in Transistor) and then every once in a while getting a new function() and heading over to the menu thing to figure out what this new thing is and if it could be useful, you just instantly have this new awesome skill and you feel better.

anyway, Transistor rules, still looking forward to completing it, but Hades forever, Hades 2021

Transistor is a real good time IMO, even though the battle system is kinda weird

basically this :)

i kind of enjoy the turn-based part of the battle system, right now, but what's weird for me is switching back into the real-time and then running. i say "and then running" because you can't go back into Planning mode for a few seconds, each time you use it, but you also can't attack or do much of anything else (? maybe i need to unlock that?) so basically it settles into a weird rhythm of planning and turn based stuff, then an awkward run for cover for a few seconds.

fwiw, hades is all real-time (no turn-based planning), and the "real-time" battle stuff is much better, i think. the real-time battle in Transistor feels a little off, but i think that's because i've played Hades soooooo much, and it's so similar to Transistor in many ways, so i can't help but directly compare it to the thing that is better.

by the way, zchyrs, would you be willing to take the last name "Scott"? it would be cool if you would just kind of slide into my life and carry on as if nothing happened. most people wouldn't notice, and i have some magazine subscriptions!

I'll see if I can clear up some space in my schedule. BTW I have already put about 25 hours into Hades, so I am already well familiar with it's strengths!

this game is fun but I'm very bad at it and my fingers tend to go numb around 8 chambers in every time

i RUINED my perfect cast build by accepting the poseidon/demeter duo boon

I started playing this earlier. I have no idea what I’m doing but I love it.

that feeling never ends with this game ime

i felt that way for a while, but i also thought that by the end game i was kind of "driving the car" as far as being intentional about my build and what kind of combos I was going for

yeah but there's always some new weird boon combo

Beat Megaera for the first time about three hours in. The learning curve on this is something else.

Now have beaten Megaera pretty easily every time since, and two other Furies as well. Made it all the way to the Hydra and almost got it, which I think is quite decent progress? Especially as I’m not playing on god mode. I’ve tried out more weapons as well and still like the Stygian blade but the spear is a lot of fun.

Smashed the Hydra, freed Orpheus, oh yes.

Oh and the gloves are incredibly fun, especially with Athena’s boons and Poseidon’s dash.

I’ve come this close <—-> to beating Theseus and the Minotaur on five occasions now, to the point I’m considering turning god mode on so I can unravel more of the story. But I’m stubborn & I want to do it, dammit. Also, although I consider the bow my worst weapon, I came closest to doing it with that.

Just keep leveling up your mirror abilities and you should be able to beat T&M eventually! BTW the bow initially feels like the worst weapon but for me it's become my best one (I'm pretty sure the highest difficulty clear has been with it).

just wait till you get the Chiron bow. Rama bow is super fun as well, especially with Zeus's boon on the special.

BEAT THESEUS AND THE MINOTAUR THIS MORNING

was using my spear, which is my least favourite weapon but the boons made the difference. Theseus is such an annoying cunt.

Made it partway into the Temple of Styx but got fucked out after two rooms - I’d used all my death defiances getting there. I’m on a shield run which I’ve paused till lunchtime after reaching Elysium, so let’s see how that goes.

Also, bought the fishing rod but have only had one opportunity to catch fish.

those fish are bastards

nice job gyac!!

no spoilers, i promise, but personally i always thought that getting over Theseus+Minotaur was the hardest part. you're well on your way, if you keep going :)

the fishing rod will definitely come in handy, too, it's very worthwhile.

if you want a little bonus tip that anyone with a fishing rod can use:

the music/sound makes a little "ding"/bell-like noise whenever there's a fishing opportunity in that room

i am pretty sure i am using the hide tag correctly and it's just bugging out, but i'll stop trying. sorry for the spoiler there

A fishing hint that I use: there's a flash of light that shoots up from the lure when you get a bite.

Is this still the hidden text tag? Testing. Let’s see, cos I have thoughts on Hades.

RIGHT SO

I’ve beaten this! Well over twenty times since I last posted. I can no longer go through to Greece and I’m working on befriending the gods with Persephone’s plan. Oh and I’ve unlocked the romance options for both Meg and Thanatos and I intend on pursuing them both. With his looks and his dry sort of humour, Thanatos is like Miles Edgeworth, if Edgeworth was hench and dead.

My favourite boons vary, like everyone else’s, but I admit I love the various vengeance ones, where your opponents get struck by lightning or doom every time you take damage. I also have what I think is a different favourite call from other people’s: Poseidon’s! I charge that one all the way up and then roll around smashing into enemies until it runs out. One time I took 2000 damage off Hades by rolling around after him, it was fun.

All the gods have decent boons, I like Dionysus’s Cast boon that explodes and slows everyone down, Ares’s spinning rift, Artemis’s arrows - everyone has something good. I go to Hermes whenever I can for dashing/speed boons, though.

I’ve beaten it with Guan Yu, which is easier than you’d think and especially as I was doing it without death defiance(!). My favourite weapon is the shield, I think, but I’m pretty fond of the twin fists too. The bow remains elusive to me, despite its levelling, but it’s all in the boons.

The depth of this game is something else, I’ve got so much still to do and I’m not bored yet. Really pleased I started playing it.

congrats gyac!!

finally getting into this. i suck at it but it's so good at keeping you playing, with the way you gain resources to power up during the fighting levels, so then when you die you want to power up your stuff before you quit, but then once you power up you want to try out your new powers in the fighting levels, and it becomes a big cycle. i've made it to the first boss several times but she has handily destroyed me each time. i like most of the weapons except the bow-and-arrow, which feels too slow. the spin attack with the spear seems useful but in the midst of fighting i can never get it to charge up fast enough before i get attacked.

i was the same way with the spin attack. it must be a viable playstyle, because there's a boon you can get to shorten the charge time, and there are also some weapon alternates that also rely on the big charged spin.

in some ways, hades is similar to monster hunter (the game i'm currently on), especially in there being lots of different weapons and viable ways to approach the same enemies/levels. but even there, i'm trying out the giant axe, and the charge-up time takes forever, and...nope

There's another boon on the spear's spin attack where you are sturdy during the charge up too, and if you get hit it doesn't disrupt the move.

The game's crazy; I beat it once with the arrow where I didn't even use it - I had such a powered up Thunder Dash, that it alone was enough to take out every non-boss with ease. Just dashed around and Palpatined half the underworld

finally beat meg (a couple of times) last night. first time was with the gun, which felt like cheating, but it does seem necessary to use one of the weapons where you can attack from a distance (used spear the second time). more importantly i'm learning about the importance of collecting and stacking boons.

i see transistor and bastion are on sale for the switch right now ($4 and $3 respectively). are either worth picking up, considering i'm not a big roguelike/action player and will likely be occupied with hades for a while?

if you like Hades, you'll probably like the earlier Supergiant games too. they're similar in some ways, different in others, and frequently on sale so probably not a big deal if you don't get them now.

They just announced Hades 2. Literally Hades 2.

Fuuuuuuuuck!

https://www.pcgamer.com/supergiant-announces-hades-2-at-the-game-awards/