Elden Ring: YOU DIED on a horse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asqWq8MIAWA

I'm reading Russian interviews with Miyazaki and I can't wait to find out what "less annoying" means for invasions (also, invasions!):

https://www.igromania.ru/article/31725/Pogovorili_s_Hidetakoy_Miyadzaki_ob_Elden_Ring._Otkrytyy_mir_multipleer_i_yadovitye_bolota.html?from=mpp

Elder Bling

So unless I misunderstood, it sounds like GRRM's contribution was the back story of the bosses/demi-gods you must face, which sounds fine to me, because it's not like Miyazaki has ever really needed someone's help before, let alone a name ringer.

https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-miyazaki-hidetaka-full-interview-summer-of-gaming

Yeah it sounds like he just wrote the mythology for the world and backstory, split and let From take it from there:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/o0680a/miyazaki_famitsu_interview_translation_part_1/

Oops here's a link to the rest of that interview:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/o0bvgi/miyazaki_famitsu_interview_translation_part_4/

looks absolutely incredible, sounds like it's trying to deliver on everything you could possibly want from "open world dark souls" and even more (there's a summonable monster collecting mechanic, combat is taking on some aspects from sekiro too), and bc it's fromsoft i believe they can actually pull it off. world design sounds like it's taking a lot from botw while directly addressing the biggest problems i had with it too

there's one more interview out there, in german but it's comprehensible enough with machine translation: https://www.4players.de/4players.php/dispbericht/Allgemein/Vorschau/40800/84122/0/Elden_Ring.html

I mean, it basically looks and sounds like another Dark Souls, which is fine with me.

Dark Souls (or at least some of them) are basically open world games anyway so i'm bout it bout it

Yesss, perfectly happy with how Dark Souls (except with added horse, jump button, wayfinding, stealth, and NPCs moving their mouths) this looks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JldMvQMO_5U

that looks really cool, definite Breath of the Wild things going on with it

Super cool, super glad this is coming out on PS4. Nice to see so much comfortably familiar stuff recycled from Souls/Sekiro games (and borrowed from BotW), plus new stuff.

Witcher RPG structure, Elder Scrolls sprawl, Dark Souls dialogue/lore/design/combat/UI and Breath of the Wild improv/central castle mechanic sounds like just what i'm looking for. just keep the stakes continually high and the procedurally generated shit minimal and you got me.

The summoning spirits thing seems intriguing, as is the absence of health bars and the like in those clips.

Oh the HUD is definitely just turned off for the demo, to make it look more cinematic I'm sure.

Ive never played Dark Souls (the way everyone talks about how hard it is put me off - I dont play games to get MORE stressed out). I love and still play Skyrim and BOTW, would I like this? It looks very nice.

The thing about Dark Souls and all its successors is that they're difficult in a very specific way; it's all about paying careful attention to things like the timing of your own attacks. It's not hard the way a bullet-hell game is hard. It's a slower-paced, almost meditative challenge. I didn't think I liked "hard" games either, but I did get pretty into DS1. I found it frustrating and I did eventually slide off it. A few boss fights aside, I didn't find it "stressful" exactly. YMMV of course.

That having been said, I'd love to see From embrace the recent trend of allowing players a temporary assist if they're stuck, a la God Mode in Hades, or the assist features in Celeste.

I think so? The difficulty of the games is way overstated imo, and this one is sure to be the most user-friendly version so far. It's more that you can't rush through or brute force it, at least not on a first playthrough. And there are so many different ways to approach the game, you can summon helpers and use magic from a distance if you don't want to get deep into the melee combat.

Forks otm...like, I get to enjoy the 'aimlessly riding around on a horse' mechanic of BotW and Red Dead Redemption, except when you get off the horse, it's Dark Souls? Yes please.

xp

Definitely overstated imo.... you mostly just have to pay close attention and remember things, and you're rarely put in a position where you can't take a breath (admittedly the only souls game I've played is demon's on ps3 but they apparently get easier from there)

To expand on X's point, I'd say the "taking a breath" aspect is a huge part of these games, eg. bonfires. The moments of peace and quiet are all the more delicious after having slogged through lugubrious combat

*part of the appeal of these games*

A lot of these games are indeed pretty meditative, in mood and design. They're lonely and emphasize exploration and experimentation. All the dying and setbacks become amusing after a while, with the reward being how easy stuff that once challenged you becomes later on in the game, as if to emphasize, "See? you've come so far!" The only real stress comes with the boss fights, imo, which is where the real challenges lie, with a few specific areas or enemy exceptions here and there. The bosses, on the other hand, both impede progress and are the least forgiving, plus are more or less the only enemies where you can see just how close you are to beating them while still dying. Or, you know dying in just a couple of seconds, which can be frustrating, too. Don't think I found any/many enemies in Dark Souls 1/3 or Bloodborne as annoying or frustrating as many of the enemies in Sekiro, though, but clearly different strokes, etc. Maybe I'm just blocking them out. I'm sure I can find some posts of mine to the contrary.

Also the boss fights are designed to psyche you out with their epic scale and music, but almost all of them are a matter of learning the boss's moves and how to avoid them, and picking your moments.

Yeah, I remember reading a recommendation that sometimes when you hit a wall, just turn off the sound. Though sometimes you miss certain cues when you do that. Regardless of moves or scale or whatever, there will always be some bosses that some people can beat with their bare fists blindfolded the first attempt, but you'll fight 50 times and barely make headway. I tend to get bored after a while more than frustrated, which is another reason to turn down or off the sound.

I definitely turn off the music sometimes (you can do that and leave the sound on).

!

Yeah! Just go into settings and there should be separate volume sliders for music and sound fx.

I never had a PS3 so it was interesting to come to the Demon's Souls remake after playing all the other games. Some of the levels, one bonfire and all, seem monstrously punishing compared to later stuff, but the bosses don't really have any capacity to surprise when you've been through all the more developed, multi-stage/gimmicky ones from later games

I beat most of them in one try so far

Didn't get a network test code :(

Tons of info & videos out there today from people who have early access. I'm trying to avoid spoilers for the most part, except for stuff about the mechanics.

Standing poise (instead of Dark Souls 3-style hyperarmor) = in (not sure how I feel about this)
Powerstancing (ie you can equip two weapons of the same type and get a different dual-wielding moveset) = in
Mixing your own combo potions that can make you explode = sure why not
Solo hosts can't be invaded unless they use a few items = ok, fine
Invaders get a compass to see what direction the host is = sick
Invaders also get an item to quickly vanish from the host's world and reappear nearby = oh my god

It really does seem like a blend of all their games plus a bunch of new stuff, can't wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFR5HsPcng

all sounds cool. I have no problem with spoilers, because not only will I forget by the time I get it, I can't play any of these games without walkthrough help anyway lol.

i have the same problem/gift with forgetting everything! really comes in handy on very rare occasions

Just finished that video and have some thoughts. One, I've never played Dark Souls II because I've ... well, I guess I just skipped it, but I've heard mixed things (and there are essentially two versions of it, for that matter). But it is interesting that some of its elements have made their way to other games, despite its reputation as a disappointment. For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro. And according to this video, power stances from DS2 have made their way to this one, too. Second, I've never used magic in any of these games, because choosing magic is like choosing an entirely different, novel way to play the game, and if you're only going to play it once I'm not sure magic is the way to do it. But maybe it is in this game, because magic looks super cool. Third, I really hope this plays well on PS4 (and other last generation systems), but I have a bad feeling between it being open world and generally newer than the past several From games it might really benefit from the speed and power of newer systems. That's one advantage of (as this video points out) From never being on the tech vanguard, because it means the games generally don't *need* next gen tech to run. (I know Demon's Souls is PS5 exclusive, but those that have played it, do you think it could run on a PS4?)

Anyway, I can already tell there are going to be a lot of funny videos generated by this game.

Oh, also, looks like you don't take fall damage when you jump, which would have been a very perverse thing for From to do, so I'm glad they didn't do it! Or at least, maybe there are height restrictions/allowances? And I like how there is environmental damage that can be done by at least bosses, which I know was in "Sekiro," though I can't recall if it was introduced there.

Demon's Souls is quite a tech showcase, it wouldn't have been able to run at that framerate on ps4, and some of the lighting/particle effects look like they would have been a big stretch too

I like Dark Souls 2 to some degree, some dispiritingly shit world design like the infamous Earthen Peak Elevator Jaunt travesty aside. It's like a difficult 3rd album that isn't among the classics but fits a certain mood when you happen to want it. I found the DLC far too much of a grim slog though

Elden Ring looks unreasonably good, can't wait

This game looks fun, and by early accounts the open world design is supposed to be good, but I can't help but wonder whether the openness actually adds much to the Souls formula. The main draw of the world design in DS1 (admittedly the only one of these I've played) was for me, its labyrinthine density. Eldenringland just looks kinda vast and drab to me.

i was moderately interested in this game, but after watching some of those videos posted above i am now EAGERLY ANTICIPATING. my only problem is i don't have a system for it, and i was leaning toward getting a steam deck rather than a ps5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9DWTt37khU

Fwiw, both videos note the difficulty of the first mandatory boss.

i showed the game a friend of mine who really likes dark souls, and he seemed to be a bit disappointed at first. i think he was thinking of it as a souls-like game, which, it is in some ways of course, very much so. but just being open world and adding jumping completely changes it. it reminds me of GTAIII or breath of the wild in terms of how those games were a departure from the games they built on

Souls-like.

And something else I was thinking about, given From's propensity for hidden walls/loot/enemies/NPCs/entire levels and/or alternate endgames, I wonder what that portends for an open world game? Gonna be a lot of OCD dudes slashing at every bush, rock or piece of foliage, looking for secret stuff, a la the first Zelda.

To be honest the open world part isn't particularly compelling to me. I do like the idea of all the new handcrafted zones that are the equivalent of large Dark souls areas, and a whole bunch of new build options and mechanics (and invasions, of course).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEypd23I0pQ

here's footage of the PS4 version - it seems like it runs without any serious issues or significant visual downgrades. i got into the network test on PS4 so i'll see how it is in a few hours from now.

i'm not at all concerned about the open world, all the footage of the network test has made it very clear that it's avoiding all the common open world pitfalls (repetitive content, big for the sake of being big, etc.) & is very dense with unique content. there are at least 10 bosses in the network test area alone (which is estimated to be around 1/12 of the full game's map). it's a big change, sure, but i don't think anywhere near as radical a shift as say GTA3 or BOTW were - the core gameplay is still very much the same despite the change in environmental scale.

For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro.

DS2's max health decreasing on death (in increments down to a min of 50%) was more of an iteration on Demon's Souls' mechanic where you lost half your max health when you were in 'soul form' opposed to 'human form', which happened upon dying while human. in both cases, the game was generally balanced around the halved max health, with more than that being a bonus, but it was still kinda presented as a punishment. i think both were intended to give the player another incentive to go into human form, which enabled being invaded as well as summoning other players as well as removing the max health penalty. DS3 improved upon this by having embers, which worked the same way in enabling multiplayer, provide a bonus to your max health instead.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though, and there doesn't seem to be in Elden Ring either.

DS2 is one of the weaker souls games but it's still worth playing. the issues with it are largely that the encounter design isn't quite as tight, the world design is clumsier & it rarely reaches the same sorts of high-point boss fights as the best of the series. i'd still put it above Demon's Souls at least.

i may be a minority opinion here, but i don't worry at all about whether something can run well enough on a certain machine. i can count the number of times i have been bothered by the framerate/slowdown of a game on one hand. i think part of it is that i came to gaming age playing games like LIFE FORCE. the slowdown was part of the game. the bug became the feature. aiming for this perfect-smooth framerate ideal is understandable but also kind of disappointing. it's just different, i guess

blighttown was pretty miserable at times in the original console versions of ds1 due to all the slowdown. it's certainly something to be concerned about & can make experiences much worse. with cross-gen games like this, it does happen sometimes that the last-gen versions are significantly inferior due to cutting corners trying to get the game to run on hardware they weren't focusing on, but that thankfully doesn't seem to be the case here at all.

IDK I think having a smooth frame rate is critical for a game like this where you have to time movements precisely. And while 60 is nice, 30 is perfectly good as long as it stays consistent. I played DS1 on Switch and it runs great!

As a relatively recent returner to games, I've learned my lesson the hard way. When I got "Doom" for the Switch it kinda ran like shit, even after a few updates. The slowdowns definitely affected game play in such a fast paced game, and even things like jumping were impacted. Like, you would run at a couple of spots (even with no enemies) and suddenly things would slow down, right before you pressed jump, and you would fall to your death. But tbf, "Doom" is almost uniquely busy and fast paced, and yeah, I can't think of another game off the top of my head with issues like that.

That said, I sort of suspect at least some of my problems with "Sekiro" were related to the frame rate. Usually I don't notice/care, but that game was all about timing, and while it could have been me (I mean, for sure it was me), it's also possible it was just that much trickier for me at 30fps than it would have been at 60.

My Nightreign tips for a good time:

-Do some solo rounds without any intent to win, just to get used to the new character mechanics, reading the map/getting a feel for the different location types, and triaging weapon & item pickups.

-The pace can be overwhelming at first compared to ER (you really do need to keep moving), but you get used to the rhythm of it quickly. At first it's fine to follow whoever is taking the lead in your group, assuming you're playing online, and then eventually you get a feel for the routing and pinging the next destination that makes sense.

-Once you find a character or a few that feel good, doing their solo quests gets you good relics that really help (same for beating Nightlords and getting their fixed relics).

-For most nightlords finding a weapon with the elemental affinity that matches their weakness is hugely helpful (although sometimes it's better to just use something else if it has huge damage and suits your character).

I think it's really fun once you get over the learning curve.

Okay, so I played this as a duo with my friend last night and I have to say... I LOVED IT!

I was very sceptical about a multiplayer roguelike from FromSoft. The idea of rushing around and having little time to explore the world seemed anathema to what these sorts of games are meant to be about.
But there's enough of the ER magic woven into this to make me feel like I'm comfortably in the right place. At the same time it's a novel way to appreciate the ER world and a whole new twist on the gameplay. They could have messed this up so badly!

I haven't played a bunch of rogue-likes, so I'm still not 100% au fait with how the game actually works, e.g. the way the days work and how often you can die and respawn etc. But that'll all come into play soon.

Been playing this every night with a couple of friends. Scepticism be damned. This has all the magic and complexity of ER. The speed of the thing, the way you have to think fast is so different to the slower tactics of Dark Souls, but it doesn't make it any less fun. Absolutely love this game, and it's giving Clair Obscur and Death Stranding 2 a run for their money, which I didn't expect.

Very glad you're enjoying it!

I've been on the cusp of depth 3 in the new mode for the last few nights, I do think the negative passives on weapons make it more interesting. So much of this game is getting used to quickly evaluating items and making your build on the fly (the rest of it is eventually learning how to dodge the Nightlords' AoE attacks, at least sometimes).

I unlocked the Revenant. She seems powerful, byt like the Recluse seems quite advanced and relies on FP regen to be useful. Maybe not a good one at this stage in the game.

What characters are people generally rolling with? I've been Wylder most of the time but I'd like to try out a few others

After reaching depth 3, this is the first time where I'm often the weakest one on the team. I'm decent, but can't guarantee that I won't get hit, and there are points where catching one boss attack will kill you. It's hard to tame the greed and always play like you're out of flasks and near death. Very embarrassing to watch your teammates revive you from 3 bars while dodging boss attacks multiple times!

So my Nightreign crew seem to be permanently too busy to play. I was just getting into it too. Im still a novice, but if any ilxors are interested in playing online with me, let me know

I'm interested! I don't have much time to play these days, but if the stars intersect and you see me online then I'm down.

Sweeet! We're in quite different time zones i think, but I shall buzz you if I do

I know no one's really playing but the Nightreign DLC is very good as far as freshening things up. Love the Scholar, new map is crazy (Shadow of the Erdtree-style verticality), and it feels hard and mysterious like the base game did on release. I was getting pretty sick of playing Depth of Night.

Ah, I do love this game but I seldom get to play it. We still haven't got past the first Nightlord yet - it's so tough!

The learning curve is quite steep, possibly more than any From game due to the speed and time pressure. So much information to take in at first (builds, routing, boss weakness and moves, how to use your skills and ults, etc).

I like this game. But there is so much about the UI that is infuriatingly unintuitive. Just selecting and swapping out weapons is an absolute mindfuck. I'm playing for with Ironeye and I have five different bows and god knows which one i've got in my hand at any time.

There are lots of other things I just think they could have easily made simpler. Like upgrading weapons - couldn't it just tell me in my normal menu what kind of smithing stone I need to buy in order to upgrade it, rather than having to go to the smithing table first?
All this while I'm trying to keep track of my team, and usually while I'm being attacked by grunts.

The map is really horrible to use too. I don't think i'll ever get my head around it.

On the plus side, after hours of trying, we beat the first Nightlord this evening!

^ Nightreign btw. I don't know why they changed the weapon menu UI when Elden Ring's system was fine

Basically normal/white weapons can be upgraded to blue with level 1 stones, and to purple with level 2 stones (which you have to go to mines to get). But you'll inevitably find purple weapons, so I only upgrade is if I have a starter weapon that I want to use on the nightlord (e.g. because Ironeye has a relic that makes the starter bow holy-infused, and the nightlord is weak to holy).

And in the volcano you can upgrade any weapon to the highest power/rarity.

You'll get used to the map, I am extremely used to it at this point.

Yeah bows are the hardest to keep straight, because they can be so similar visually.

Yeah i had, like, three or four Albinauric Bows and it was impossible to tell if I was wielding then one with the holy damage. I just want to click on the one I want to equip and it will appear, but instead it's just japery

And then at one point I was running round with two bows in my hands which made everything even more confusing.

If it helps, you can always see the elemental icon for the weapon, both in the lower left and in the menu I think. And the arrows and damage will look different for each type.

Man... sometimes I really do wish I could play the original Elden Ring for the first time all over again. Really nothing compares. I even got a hankering to do the DLC, flawed as it was. Pretty much the only game I've played all the way through multiple times.

I don't have a Switch 2 so I won't get to play Duskbloods, but I'm not really sure what to expect of it. Looks like Bloodborne crossed with Lies Of P and Final Fantasy 7 so far - just not sure what to make of it.

Man... sometimes I really do wish I could play the original Elden Ring for the first time all over again

Was literally thinking this just the other day, but I dread starting this monster from scratch.

On my last replay (prior to the dlc) it felt much faster. It's fun to zip around knowing the shape of things, while filling in some bits of the map that I didn't fully explore or understand the first time.

I feel you DL, I'm playing Nioh 3 now to scratch the Soulslike itch and while it's a great game, it's such a *game*. It doesn't have the ineffable From magic that adds up to an immersive experience.

I remember somewhere in the middle of Elden Ring addiction I just told myself to let go and enjoy it, accepting that it would take a lot of time and I'd sometimes binge it for hours at the expense of doing other things, because so long can pass before a game of the same standard will come along.

Josh in Chicago - do it. I've played through at least 3 or 4 times and it remains fun. My last time was as a Wretch but playing it through as closely and completely as I knew I could, quest-wise. You know. As it was intended to be played. I indulged in reading as many item descriptions as I could, and followed the story as clsoely as I could. I loved every moment - things clicked

The fun of Elden Ring restarts (for me) was starting wretch, getting to Level 10 max and seeing how far I could get with my prior knowledge— grabbing talismans and the extra bags for them, getting assistance for certain bosses (which itself is a challenge— your co-op helpers get HP reduction to meet your own). I def made it as far as 1st Godfrey (top of Leyndell). Fun, too, to attract Level 10 invaders and dispatch them with later-game upgraded weapons and talisman boosts they typically don’t get at those early levels

Can't believe, even with 900+ hours and several playthroughs under my belt, that I'm playing thos again. Not only that but I'm still finding new things. Little anomalies, secret pathways, places I definitely don't remember encountering before.

Unfortunately this game has a habit of completely taking over my life.

There was a whole bit of Castle Morne I'd skipped. Lots more happens at night than I first thought. And there Stormveil continues to reveal ramparts and rooms I dodn't know existed

(typos, sorry. I need a new phone)

What else happens at night besides the Bell Bearing guys? I never really explored that whole side of things.

No, neither had I because waiting for Night (or finding a SoG to rest at) interrupts the action and isn't something I'm going to do out of habit.

I did notice a lot of soapstones in places telling me to wait for the night to come: I assume it's to fight one of the Deathbirds, which I did know only attack at night. But also there are little things like non-aggro jellyfish coming out to play at the Dragon Communion Church on the small island off Limgrave.

I also noticed I can see wreckage of pirate ships where there are boats depicted on the map.

Quite a few other little things I was surprised to have missed. Stormveil, as I say, I always think I've fully-combed and always find another little sidepath that leads to a treasure. I've never managed to catch Gostoc stealing my runes though, which is a thing that happens apparently.

I don't think you can catch him, but you can prevent the theft if you kill him first. But then you don't get the very hilarious and pathetic scene of him kicking Godrick's remains after the boss fight

I also noticed I can see wreckage of pirate ships where there are boats depicted on the map.

I love that tunnel that takes you out to the island early on, I kinda wish there was more of that (or a way to get out to a ghost ship).

I believe the wandering Mausoleums sleep at night.

Some things are a bit weird rhis time through as I happen to be doing some quests early. Like the whole thing with Latenna and Albus, the old Albinauric in the pot. Havent made it to Altus Plateau yet and already hearing about tge Lift of Rold to thr Haligtree

I had been spoiled on what his game was so I killed Gostoc immediately

The caravan that runs through South West Liurnia eventually stops by a small beach on the lake. The troll-giants take a rest, exhausted. And the soldiers and commoners start congregating together. It was so fun to just zap them all with the Glintstone Arc

Not killing Gostoc can yield an Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone if I remember correctly...

Yeah. Best not to as those stones are really hard to come by - much as it's tempting. I did hear there's a way to catch Gostoc in the act, or meet him at various locations in Stormveil other than the initial one at the start.

Speaking of which here's also a very strangely placed Site Of Grace if you dash through the main gate, avoid the ballistas and immediately double-back on yourself to the left.. Not sure exactly what it's doing there, but it's right above where you meet Gostoc meaning there are something like 3-4 SoGs right near each other

I've known about the Transporter Virgin at the bottom of the waterwheel in Raya Lucaria for a while. But I never really explored that area before - I'd always just get eaten by the Abductor and sent to Magma Mansion. But there is stuff around there, including the Long Cat Talisman

This playthrough feels harder and less fluid than my last one which I played in anticipation of the DLC. That one felt quite effortless in terms of challenge as well as sequencing and structure for some reason. I remember getting through it quite quickly and never really getting too stuck.

Not totally sure why that might be. It has been two years since I last played it. Everything was going very well up to Liurnia and Raya Lucaria. I'm just on my way to fighting Renalla and I feel really quite underleveled. Raya Lucaria's enemies can be really tough and gang-y. I seem to be dying to standard enemies quite a lot.

I'm also not too sure on what I should be doing next. Feels like in previous playthroughs there'd always be some NPC giving me hints about where I should be going, but they're all just sitting around the Roundtable Hold saying stock phrases.

As such, I've ended up relying on glintstone spells and OP weapops like the Moonveil more than I wanted to, which is what I did in my first playthrough. I was having fun with a halberd up till recently, but if the game's going to give me a cool katana that dishes out magic damage and a really useful ranged spell, it's hard to pass these up.

I'd like some suggestions for more interesting builds. At first I Thoguht it would be fun to do a Dex/Arc build since I've never really messed with that. But the game is such that on a clean playthrough you're sort-of introduced quite naturally and gradually to the different elements. Liurnia is pretty-much designed to get you to stat Intelligence and use glintstone sorceries - it's very hard to fight those wizards and robots with just melee; and there aren't really a lot of Faith or even Dex-based weapons in the game at this stage, so increasing stats to do with that is pointless.

Usually by now (50 hours in) I would have beaten Renalla, but instead I'm riding around trying to find other ways to get more powerful without outright farming. Last night I went up to the Madness Village (I always forget it's there) and beat Vyke. Didn't know you could use his maiden to soak the rag Varre gives you to get to Mogh's Palace.

Speaking of Mogh's Palace - the enemies there are one-shotting me. I can't even get to the Site Of Grace neaer the Albinauric farm, I just die!

The one thing I will say on this playthrough: Much as I love everything about this game, it peaks extremely early on with Stormveil. Playing Limgrave, Weeping Peninsula and Stormveil always feels like I'm discovering things for the first time all over again. Whereas once we get to Liurnia my enthusiasm slips ever so slightly, and I'm not sure why that is.

I'm not really looking forward all that much to Altus Plateau and the rest of the game - they all feel very familiar to me, like I've combed every section of those areas, whereas Limgrave, Stormveil and Volcano Manor just give and give.

yeah - I'm playing a new fresh play through myself, and it really is remarkable how richly dense Stormveil and the Weeping Peninsula are. Throw Caelid in there as well, despite it being "too much" at my current level.

Things are much more spread out in Liurnia, and the challenge absolutely steps up.

For interesting builds, my first build was a pretty fun one: arcane/faith focusing on dragon incants and bleed weapons. Was great for melee fighting, but lacked oomf for ranged attacks. Was an absolute Malenia killer, but really challenging against Radagon/Elden Beast.

That said, the DLC makes up for the sparseness of the Mountaintops and the accelerated cadence of the last 1/3rd of the game. With the intent being to delve into that and the Haligtree around that time, the game feels more "balanced" with things to do and explore. Shadow Keep is just as intricate and rich as Stormveil imho, and the DLC map itself feels more like a "grand legacy dungeon" with how it gnarls its routes in various ways using depth.

Did you go straight to the Academy before Caria Manor? Usually I hit that up first before I delve into the Academy and Renalla.

Yeah I did. Perhaps I should go Caria Manor first. It just doesn't feel "natural" to do so yet as it's further up the map, and I'm not sure if i've come against any story beats that would point me there, other than Iji telling me not to. Maybe Blaidd says something? Are there even any clues to tell you how to get through the illusory wall in Kingsrealm Ruins? I remember being so annoyed about that in my first playthrough - the fact a whole area of the map is blocked by a secret wall. But then I went back and played the Souls games and realised this was a whole part of the vernacular

Octobeard, not sure I agree about the DLC making up for the Mountaintops. If anything I'd say a lot of the DLC areas most resemble them. The Keep was a highlight, but it wasn't quite as intricate as Stormveil.

FromSoft are masters at creating the illusion of choice but actually funnelling you down the path they want you to go. The progression of a lot of the previous games is very linear despite it feeling like there are loads of branching paths.

The DLC didn't do a great job of this, I thought. Too many long, empty plateaus where the aim is to go in a straight line from one end to the other. So many lootless dead ends too. I fairly enjoyed playing it but in retrospect the whole thing felt unfinished in gameplay, story and "vibe".

I think there were too many moments in Shadow Of The Erdtree that reminded me I was playing a video game. The Firebasket giants (or whatever they're called) were so cool to look at but absolutely horrible and boring to fight - I think I managed to beat one of them. The rest I didn't bother with, especially as the rewards weren't worth it.

Actually I'd say SOTE felt like From were forgetting that this is an open world, and instead going back to the "spoke and wheel" design of Dark Souls 2 where you pick a path and just follow it till you get to the end, then teleport back to the start and choose a different path. That worked fine in DS2 because it wasn't a sandbox game and it made for some tight level-based gaming. SOTE saw me riding for ages and ages through beautiful fields of flowers, but often never encountering anything much

Yeah very very fair criticisms of the DLC! I def feel like there might have been a bit of "stretching out" of the map a bit to offer the illusion of "more than is really there". That said, for all its faults I love it and it fills out the main game better for me. Some of my favorite boss fights in either game are there (Bayle, Metyr, Midra). However, there's a "mystique" that seems to be missing from it in some ways, and despite leaning into equally grotesque imagery (pots/shaman mutilation, Abyssal Woods).

Regarding Caria Manor, I originally was so intimidated by the Academy upon arriving in Liurnia, that I felt I needed to explore everything else first before hitting it up (similar attitude to Stormveil Castle). After doing that I felt leveled up enough, so it's part of my "order" when delving into that region now.

Yeah I agree about the "mystique". There's just something missing about the vibe of the DLC. It does feel quite apart from the other game. Maybe it's all those copy-pasted shadow grunts, but I don't think so. You got plenty of regular zombie grunts in Limgrave and that was fine.

That's not to say it didn't have some cool setpieces. The Manse was great. Although the woods leading up to it did nothing for me - especially the "Ooooh this place is so spooky dooky" developer messages, which totally killed any sort of vibe they were trying to build.

I generally don't play these games for the boss fights: They're barriers to the progression of my adventure and I'm usually fairly happy to get through them as quickly as possible. The ideal number of attempts on a boss, for me, is 3-4. If it gets above 6 or 7 I start getting bored and frustrated. It's not what I'm there for. But I will grant you: the DLC'S bosses are metal as fuck as setpieces. I love the Lion carnival puppet especially

I didn't play Erdtree but I did watch a few playthroughs. I can see it being dull to play but it was really cool to look at