Red Dead Redemption

So apparently you either get visited by a wolf or a stag at various points in the game depending on how you play it. I've had wolf through-and-through. I've been so mean. I rescued a dog for some kid in Strawberry but shot it as I was leaving the scene. That said, it's been the debt collection missions I've had the toughest time with. I let two people off the hook in the end. Try as I might, I just can't be that nasty.

I still haven't able to play much of this, but that's a problem I was having. The lead character is innately a bad person - he's a killer and a robber, etc. - but I'm not sure how much I'm supposed to lean into that, or if I even want to. Can you play the game by being ... a good person? I doubt it. While I respect the fact that they set up the O'Gunfodder clan as my arch nemesis to shoot at, I feel less into shooting anonymous (and innocent?) randos in the wild just because the mission demanded it, or because I can. I suppose it is called Red Read Redemption, so maybe it finds a way to inject some morality into it?

that's part of the fun of these open-world interactive morality plays I guess - it's up to you. i found i started out trying my best to be a good cowboy, not to upset the applecart. but it was impossible. it only took me to accidentally pull a gun on someone or piss someone off in town to get a whole bunch of people on my case. so eventually i got a bit bored and started messing with it.

definitely raises a few debates about the dissociativeness of games like this. even though the game does a great job at realism and TRIES very hard to instil a moral compass in the player, it's still a bunch of avatars and who cares if you shoot a random man off his horse, loot his pockets and dump him in the river?

josh, if you press down on the cross-pad, it tells you the temperature, where you are and also there's a bar on the bottom telling you your social standing in terms of whether people like you or not. if you greet people in the street and generally do good things, it goes up.

guys its the WILD west, nobody is innocent here.

Is the crossbar also how I ... eat? That gives me access to my satchel, right? I was confused by that, since there is also stuff in my wheel (which I also find kind of confusing), but not nearly as comprehensive.

Wait, dump him in the river? Am I supposed to dispose of bodies?! I kind of figured they're just left there, like my various abandoned horses. So the guy I pushed off a cliff, the guy that knew me from Blackwater, is he still dead at the bottom of the cliff!?

I mentioned that dude before, btw, because he's really kind of illustrative of the inconsistency here. He recognizes me from Blackwater, because I figure I did really bad things in Blackwater. So he horses off, I assume either out of fear or to alert the authorities, I catch up with him but, rather than rescue him, push him off the cliff, which the game dramatically tells me was a "bad" thing to do. But the only reason he ran off was because he *knew* I was a bad, murdering scoundrel! In which case letting him go seemed like it would have been the *wrong* thing to do, from the perspective of a bad person that doesn't want to get caught for the bad things he did.

it took me a while to get used to the selection wheel. Hold L2, and while you're doing that press R1 to scroll between WEAPONS/ITEMS/HORSE, then use the regular L stick to select a thing (like food). Then you just let go of the L2 to eat it, or select what gun you want.

I did find it a bit hard to get used to some of the instructions. You could be riding with a group and listening to what they say, trying to steer your horse so it follows them, and meanwhile essential tips on how to play the game are flashing up very quickly in the top left hand corner.

If you kill someone on a road, it's best to be wearing your mask. I've also found it's a good idea to move them off the road to a quieter place (or dump them in a river). This is so that no one discovers it and raises the alarm. That said, last night I was doing exactly this and a witness still seemed to work out what had happened (blood on the road? how do they know it wasn't from an animal?), so i don't know.

I mentioned that dude before, btw, because he's really kind of illustrative of the inconsistency here. He recognizes me from Blackwater, because I figure I did really bad things in Blackwater. So he horses off, I assume either out of fear or to alert the authorities, I catch up with him but, rather than rescue him, push him off the cliff, which the game dramatically tells me was a "bad" thing to do. But the only reason he ran off was because he *knew* I was a bad, murdering scoundrel! In which case letting him go seemed like it would have been the *wrong* thing to do, from the perspective of a bad person that doesn't want to get caught for the bad things he did.

I can't quite remember this bit. Did the game fail the mission or just give you a slapped wrist?

This was in the first (only) town I went to. Valentine? A guy comes up and stammers "don't I know you from somewhere?" And then identifies you as from Blackwater and bolts off on his horse. The mission is to catch up to him, and if you don't you fail and try again, so you *have* to catch him. But when you do he's hanging off a cliff (like a big idiot) and it gives you the option of pulling him up or kicking him off. I kicked him off, because who wants a fleeing witness to my purported bad deeds? But for all I know had I pulled him up it would have made me shoot him or push him off, anyway.

There is definitely something serial killer in plain sight about Arthur. I can go about my business just killing people then return to the camp covered in blood and they're all, ha ha, that's my Arthur, always up to something.

thi sis true, although people do treat you differently if you've been up to no good

You will murder at least 50 people in cold blood and be treated as the hero throughout the game

"You're a good man, deep down Arthur"
Me: How many more innocent lives do I need to take to convince you otherwise?

i wish there was some different mechanic than mowing down waves of enemies, i feel arthurs bodycount probably exceeds the cumulative total of every real wild west outlaw. and it'd make the dramatic arc a little more believable. alas it's a video game i guess

One of the things I liked best about "The Last of Us" (which I guess is an exceptional game in every way) is that all the deaths have a weight to them, not least because you kill for your survival but because the cumulative effective of death and killing is a well-considered theme of the game. There's even that moment toward the end of the game where you meet a stranger who tells you about this kill-happy couple making its way across the country, and you immediately recognize that it's you. Instead of giving you a choice, *this* game makes you a "bad" bandit from the start, with a history of robbing and killing, but it doesn't quite clarify its morality enough (at least not early in the game) to indicate whether *more* robbing and killing is a bad thing, even as it compels you to do both. In this sense (and maybe the game changes, or offers more context) it's kind of a lazy undercutting of its incredible world building. Everyone and everything has so much detail and character, but you, as the protagonist, remain on *moral* rails even as you wander the wild west making decisions with modest or superficial consequences. Def. does not make the game bad, but super-early it doesn't feel particularly ... compelling.

It's Grand Theft Pony 2. The morality of the story and the overall body count are not really related.

I'm not sure how this compares with Witcher 3, where the decisions it asks you to make are very often morally ambiguous and sometimes don't have an obvious good/bad outcome. That's a really refreshing side to the game and reflects on the idea that Geralt of Rivia isn't a hero or anti-hero, he's a mercenary with a shaky moral code that is beset by double-standards.

JiC, maybe it's cos you're not too far into the game, I'm not exactly sure I follow what you're saying here. Arthur is an outlaw, and we know what outlaws supposedly get up to. But the game definitely does give you the choice (and directly examines) the morality of killing and the difference between doing it for self-preservation, or doing it in cold blood.

I'm still early enough in the game. Like, a touch into chapter 2, maybe? It's even possible I haven't done an official Ch. 2 mission yet (it's hard to say, since they all have enigmatic names - "A Stitch in Time," or stuff like that - that make it hard for me to remember). So I've got a ways to go! I'm still in wandering around aimlessly mode, which is on me, partly because I haven't had that much time to play. I need a character to give me a push in a specific direction, get some momentum, so maybe seeking out Hosea for a mission is the way to go.

if you want to progress the story, you follow the yellow dots on the map. if you want side quests, it's white. occasionally you'll also happen on a random passer by who calls for help or attention, and these flash up as small white dots on your corner map

OK, hooked up with Hosea to hunt a bear and that's already opened a few doors. Sold a horse, got a new horse (I didn't want another goddam horse!), got a horse brush, and got a map of legendary animals when I was hunting the mean bear. Which I wounded and scared off, which I assume I was supposed to do, since I never had a chance to get a bigger gun. Lotta good Hosea was on that mission.

i have been trying to get back into this game and coincidentally that's the mission i'm on too. but i remembered that part of the reason i don't play it much is it doesn't seem to autosave that often within missions or let you manually save. i had to do the mission where you rescue the drunk preacher twice because i stopped when i got him on my horse, then my kid switched to a different game, and when i went back it was at the beginning of the mission again. i don't often have time to sit down and play for an hour straight so that's annoying. i got through buying a new horse in that mission and now i wonder when i restart if i'll have to go through that again.

Seriously. When I was playing yesterday a family member asked if they could use the TV, and I said, sure, just one second. OK, a couple of minutes. Um, whenever this long cut scene is done, because it has to save first. OK, I guess I have to shoot at a bear before it saves, one sec. Oh, there's another cut scene, hold tight. Well, I'll just quit here, looks like it saved, fingers crossed!

remember games when you just couldn't save them? imagine getting SO FAR in Sonic only to be told you had to switch it off and go to bed

tbf all those games were not 80+ hours long (plus extras)!

Yeah there were some seriously long games on the ZX spectrum too, like Everyones a Wally required a heck of a lot of wandering about a town finding items.

Also remembering Robocod on the Amiga, can't believe I played through that entire game in one sitting but looking at longplay times on YT it's only 2 hours. Seemed like a lot more.

James Pond, Robocod! Wow that's something I haven't thought of in years

OK, hooked up with Hosea to hunt a bear and that's already opened a few doors. Sold a horse, got a new horse (I didn't want another goddam horse!), got a horse brush, and got a map of legendary animals when I was hunting the mean bear. Which I wounded and scared off, which I assume I was supposed to do, since I never had a chance to get a bigger gun.

you could have used eagle eye to scout out the bear and hunt it and make a dumb looking hat out of it. the 'legendary' animals on that map aren't affected negatively by the weapon or type of gun you use like normal animals

https://preview.redd.it/5v26rtlv7kw11.jpg?auto=webp&s=c094a2d26b75297ef6644ad80bcfa5de0b443577

sorry for big image

Hah. Small on my phone! I've never really cared about how my character looks or dresses in any of these things. I can't even remember what gender I just played as in Bloodborne. If there's some property that makes a bear hat special, I will totally go for it. If it's just a big dumb hat, well, I don't need any help looking dumb in this game.

found a creepy pig mask last night. people don't like it when you wear it

the hat has no attributes, just dumb looking. a lot of the community is into the fashion stuff, which i'm with you on. don't care

I decided from the start I'd be the dandiest bloodthirsty murderer in town. Currently working on how long I can grow my moustache

An eventful hour today. Decided to go on another mission, so tormented the guy tied to a tree. Next thing I know we're off in search of O'Fodder folk to kill. I think I was supposed to use my throwing knives, but instead we just shot everyone pretty easy enough. Took so long searching for things that everyone else went back to camp, then saw on my map approaching red skulls. I knew that couldn't be good, but approached to investigate all the same, and hey, it's bounty hunters, and they kill me. So: is there still a bounty on my head? I didn't notice. Anyway, after that I ride back toward camp and come across a guy riding on the road. I opt to call to him, then notice he stopped and asked what I wanted, kind of like a dick. It gives me the option of robbing him, but he rides off before I decide what to do, calling me a coward over his shoulder. No one calls me a coward! So this time I put on my mask, ride back to him, and before I can decide what to say or do he tries to shoot me! So I kill him. I loot the body, remember I should hide it, but a witness comes by, sees me, and he rides off in search of help. So I race after him and shoot him, too. While I'm hiding that second body a *third* guy driving a wagon comes by, sees me, then *he* rides off in search of the authorities. So I ride after *him* and shoot him, too. But now there's a wagon with two horses and another couple of random horses without riders all around this stretch of road. What am I supposed to do with all these horses? If I ride off on one, what happens to *my* horse? Anyway, loot the bodies, leave the horses and head back after my killing spree (at what cost?), then come across a guy hunting something. This could be good, I figure, so tag along and ... he kills and skins a coyote. Um, ok. I take the carcass he left behind back to camp.

It really does descend into chaos very easily

Question: is there just an infinite population of NPCs that regenerate every time you play? Like, there are clearly some NPCs that are one-offs, or plot/mission events that only happen a single time, too. But just the random strangers you rob or kill on the road, they're nobodies, right? You can't just systematically kill everyone in this world until there is no one left, because I assume it repopulates/resets, right? Similarly, dead bodies or horses or wagons or other stuff you just leave behind, I assume it resets and disappears, too, right? How about homesteads? There was a house I found a few plays ago with a jerk tending to his pigs. He kind of picked a fight so I shot him, but if I go back to that house, he's not still lying there on the ground, is he? If not, does that house just stay empty for the rest of the game?

if you could kill everyone in the world, a'la dark souls, i might pick this back up again.

I mean, there seems to be an endless supply of O'Driscolls. That's a big big family

what's the name of the big family in GTA5 that Trevor keeps killing?

o'neils

Today, stole a (stolen?) carriage and unlocked the fence. Then, before I had a chance to rest, accidentally started a new mission, which was ... to get really drunk? It was pretty funny. And now I'm sleeping in a hotel next to the jail where they are keeping ... Micah?

In the meantime, robbed a few empty houses, shot a bunch of folks at a house (and I think got away with it), and came across a bunch of O'Fodders who killed me so fast it made me wonder if I was supposed to even engage.

ha I love that drunk mission

OK, I think the key was to actually play some of these missions, a few of which don't seem to be about advancing the story so much as unlocking abilities, which in turn give me something to do if I don't feel like doing missions (like selling stolen carriages, or ... brushing my horse). Speaking of which, early on I had a mission where I had to sell a horse, which I did, but then that left me with no horse and I was forced (I think?) to buy a cheap horse. It turns out I could have kept that first horse, which was apparently a pretty good horse, and now I have this little horse, which admittedly seems to get me where I'm going but may be ultimately not the best horse to ride around on while doing deeds both ill and good. And come to think of it, what in the world happened to my *first* first horse? It seemed fine, too. Anyway, what should I do about these horses? Should I feel bad abandoning horses? If I bond with and build up the stats of a horse, is that horse good enough? Back when I played Breath of the Wild there was a bunch of, er, horse shit to manage, too, and I got so tired of it I eventually just abandoned using a horse at all, unless I literally had to use one, but this game seems to require horses.

Oh, should add that I just learned/realized/was reminded that I can and should take cover when shooting it out with a gang or group.

once you build up the stats of a horse you're good to go. they don't vary much

Today's play included learning how to fist fight (which I hadn't really done?) and then chasing down a witness when I was trying to recover the drunk Rev. Once again, some mixed messages. Seemed to be impossible to catch up to the fleeing witness on foot, didn't seem to be letting me use my horse, seemed to have no recourse but to shoot the fleeing witness in the back, which once again the game conveyed was a Bad Thing. And yet, fleeing the law after rescuing the Rev from the train tracks felt like it was built in, so maybe I was supposed to shoot the fleeing witness? I think next time I play I may head back to the fence and sell some jewelry, or at least go off in search of more stuff to steal. Though to be honest that doesn't seem to get you as much money as missions.

Today I went on a big shoot out with Sadie to execute some O'Driscolls.
I decided to stick around and loot the bodies after the gunfight. I'd only managed to look around for a bit before the police came to investigate. So I hid up on the top floor of the house. I could hear the cops talking and telling each other to comb the place. It was all very tense, waiting behind a wall, ready to jump out all guns blazing if anyone came up the stairs. But no one came. They searched the area for a good while before calling it off. Everything about the way it happened was really well done.

Every time I get a decent pelt from hunting I somehow end up losing it before I can get to a trapper to sell it.
What happens to Legendary stuff when you drop it? I've done a fee of these but seem to get attacked very soon after and somehow the thing falls off or disappears every time.

Got distracted today collecting a few debts. Helped a guy bitten by a snake, gave money to a blind guy, helped a lady with a broken down horse get to town. Once in town got roped into getting some snake oil salesman, but because I forgot the controls I had to chase him down by foot, which was ... boring, especially since I forgot how to lasso. Meanwhile, when I got to town I decided to pay off a couple of bounties on my head, one a mere $20 or so but the other $240! I wonder if that is because while racing away from a debt collection I ran over a couple of people on my horse? Anyway, that's lot of money for me right now!

xp yeah not sure what happens to the legendary stuff if you lose it, the anxiety that's caused just from thinking about this makes me too feared to even look it up on gamefaqs and instead I'll try my hardest to get those pelts sold before any trouble starts.

it doesnt matter if you lose the legendary pelts, crafting with them at the trapper is unlocked as soon as you kill the legendary animal

Today I tried to fence a stolen wagon, with four horses, but somehow got the wagon stuck (before I learned how to "reverse"). I blocked an entire road, and not only did it piss people off, I ended up killing multiple folks with my horse and then got chased out of town by the law. I went back and sold the wagon for $25, which seems ... low?