Anyone else here watching the Netflix doc series Rotten? Has it (or other culinary conflict doc) affected what you buy?
― sarahell, Monday, 14 October 2019 17:22 (nine months ago) link
hadn't heard of this, sounds interesting. question though: is it focused chiefly on food supply in the USA?
― L'assie (Euler), Monday, 14 October 2019 17:25 (nine months ago) link
oh yeah a link:https://www.eater.com/2018/1/12/16866954/rotten-netflix-food-corruption
― sarahell, Monday, 14 October 2019 17:25 (nine months ago) link
xp one of the episodes I saw last night focused partly on people that died from peanuts in curries in the UK
― sarahell, Monday, 14 October 2019 17:26 (nine months ago) link
i just started watching this last week. i guess i started on S2 accidentally. have only watched a few epis but hell yes i will avoid chilean avos.
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Monday, 14 October 2019 19:28 (nine months ago) link
that was a good episode! I liked the phrase "OPEC of avocados"
― sarahell, Monday, 14 October 2019 19:30 (nine months ago) link
I also kept waiting for it to mention "avocado toast" but it only showed it, and didn't use the phrase
― sarahell, Monday, 14 October 2019 19:31 (nine months ago) link
Will watch! (wait what's wrong with chilean avocados and is it ok if I am in chile to eat them?)
― Yerac, Monday, 14 October 2019 19:33 (nine months ago) link
I got mad at the garlic one for personal reasons
― sarahell, Monday, 14 October 2019 19:34 (nine months ago) link
yeah, i felt like just seeing the toast image repeatedly we effective thoughxp
uh, i can't tell a Yerac what to do, but let us know how you feel if you watch. or maybe just skip that epi (sad lol?)
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Monday, 14 October 2019 19:36 (nine months ago) link
maybe I will watch that episode today. and then skip back to season 1 and work my way through. I was once talking about avocado toast being trendy now and it was like trying to tell a hawaiian that poké is trendy and being called "aloha tartar" or something.
― Yerac, Monday, 14 October 2019 19:39 (nine months ago) link
in addition to the main point of the avo episode, i was reminded of a book called the dreamt land i read recently that is about the history of water consumption in California. almond and pistachio orchards have come to dominate fairly recently. they can be the most profitable. nut trees are literally sucking all the water in the Central Valley that used to be much more diverse and was where crops were grown that fed the world. Now, there are huge companies involved that are not even farmers (Hancock Insurance, for example), just raking in millions, growing nuts that have no business being grown there, while seasonal crops are fewer and further between. The land in certain areas in San Joaquin has sunk by over a meter (from aquifers being drained, and once land sinks the aquifer's size is forever diminished) and it's still not regulated yet! we gonna die
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Monday, 14 October 2019 20:52 (nine months ago) link
Oh yeah last time I drove I5 from the Bay to LA it was like 50 straight miles of angry almond grower signs blaming the state government for their irrigation costs
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 October 2019 09:29 (nine months ago) link
I watched the avocado and fish episodes and started the wine one. infinite economic growth is just so many people getting pissed when the music stops and they are the ones left without a seat. I don't even know if it's possible to unwind anything when people just get absolutely corrupt in the presence of money.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 00:41 (eight months ago) link
The wine one was kinda awesome—- I would hang with some of those dudes.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 09:38 (eight months ago) link
i haven't seen it but apropos of nothing i want to express my irritation with the "there is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism" meme. it sounds like one of those lazy justifications for learned helplessness one of us x-ers would've come up with.
― Spironolactone T. Agnew (rushomancy), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 13:12 (eight months ago) link
that meme should replace capitalism with corruption. I was getting a little annoyed with some of the fisherman who contributed to the problem that eventually took their livelihood and now are sad but probably would do the same thing all over again.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 13:18 (eight months ago) link
It made me wonder about the accuracy of the "grown in" / "product of" labels they have in the grocery store -- like I generally buy US produce if available, even if it's conventional and not organic, but this show made me wonder if I am really buying US produce (e.g. conflict-free avocados)
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 19:59 (eight months ago) link
damn i need to find out what's wrong with chilean avocados
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:05 (eight months ago) link
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:06 (eight months ago) link
This answered why the prices of avocados doubled in the markets here in the last 5 years. Also with climate change the water situation will likely get worse if the Andes doesn't have enough snow melt in the spring. It also barely rained this winter. I can recall 3 scattered days.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:19 (eight months ago) link
yeah climate change comes up a lot! ... I haven't watched the fish one, but I am slowly reconciling myself to not being able to eat all the delicious seafood I want, unless I work on making more money to afford it.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:33 (eight months ago) link
climate change in combination with aquifer depletion is gonna push global food security over the precipice. it is just a matter of time.
i have mixed feelings about eating seafood. but dammit i freaking love oysters, mussels, and scallops
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:42 (eight months ago) link
I love seafood and it's easy to get it fresh here but...also with climate change...I kind of prefer it to be flash frozen now. We used to make a weekly ceviche and we came across worms the last time. That was that. We do make poke once a week now but I feel more comfortable with being able to identify issues when it's not a fresh white fish.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:48 (eight months ago) link
I finished the wine episode and they never fully explained why CRAV targeted the french grower they showed at the beginning and end.
I remember first hearing about CRAV because they got mad that the Tour de France was being sponsored by a Chilean wine.
― Yerac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 01:12 (eight months ago) link
Sarahell, why the doubt wrt place of origin labels? I get that something like olive oil could get misrepresented but for traceability reasons (in case of a outbreak of some kind) I would rly expect accuracy. I mean most people will continue to be oblivious to the Chilean avo issue (and also not think twice about carbon footprint).Xxxposts
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Thursday, 17 October 2019 15:10 (eight months ago) link
Re: the wine episode, I was trying to find more information today about the chinese muslims (Hui) that were 'relocated' to pick grapes. I wish the episode had gone more into that.
― Yerac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:00 (eight months ago) link
Sarahell, why the doubt wrt place of origin labels?
this was in response to the garlic episode
― sarahell, Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:22 (eight months ago) link
zomg I watched the garlic one last night. So sad, it was just a post mortem of this terrible situation that had ruined/was in the process of ruining several seemingly genuine people. The intl lawyer started out sympathetic but then slowly pivoted to sneering at the younger farmers. Wow.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:36 (eight months ago) link
Do you think they just took Harmoni's money knowingly in order to stay afloat? Is it clear that the FGPA are the real villains?
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:39 (eight months ago) link
My first job as a teenager was at a business that Christopher Ranch was part owner of; my second job was at a Christopher Ranch owned cherry stand. For about a decade, my mom worked for another company that the Christophers had an ownership stake in. For about 30+ years, she has worked for garlic farmers that aren't the Christophers, but sell to the Christophers, I think, some of their acres on land owned by the Christophers, and one of the farmers' sister-in-law is married (now) to Don Christopher -- like, the show seemed to intimate that California garlic growers were "afraid" of Christopher Ranch, but I think it's more like, there are so many connected business dealings, it's like snitching on a friend or family member. A lot of these dudes see each other at least once a week at breakfast at the same diner. (if pplains or sunny are reading this -- it used to be a Sambo's)
― sarahell, Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:50 (eight months ago) link
― sarahell, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:10 (eight months ago) link
I had never even heard of Christopher Ranch before (just watched the garlic episode) but I guess the logo looks a little familiar. I am glad I have never bought peeled garlic.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 October 2019 00:06 (eight months ago) link
I was very much not a fan of the one NM garlic farming couple.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 October 2019 00:09 (eight months ago) link
finally watched this episode. so far my takeaway from these issues is "know your sources". CR makes a nice product that is all over restaurant kitchens, but reminds me of the bottled water (which i think is a complete scourge) - when did these things (peeled garlic/ubiquitous plastic water bottles) become a thing and why is greed so all-encompassing in consumerland?
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Friday, 18 October 2019 15:12 (eight months ago) link
For decades, CR has made/sold jars of minced garlic, crushed garlic, and chopped garlic -- I actually buy these more often than raw bulbs of garlic. It's more convenient, it works better in certain recipes, and geez -- have you had to peel a lot of garlic? When the Chinese guy was talking about the prisoners biting the roots, I was like, I can so relate. I hadn't thought to do that, but, I know that physical feeling.
― sarahell, Friday, 18 October 2019 17:31 (eight months ago) link
I usually buy 3 cloves at a time and just do the shaking them in two bowls method to peel them and store. All the circumstances in that episode seemed like a complete mess. I was trying to look up how much the one couple accepted from Harmoni but instead started reading a reddit about them.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:14 (eight months ago) link
one of the main things that bugged me about that episode is that the show was making this argument about "loss of American jobs" re Harmoni/CR, and never mentioned that actually, Christopher Ranch grows garlic, and they employ a significant number of workers, other California garlic growers also employ a significant number of workers -- more than the New Mexico people or similar farmers with really small operations. .... I remember the initial Chinese garlic dumping period, actually, I think it was my freshman or sophomore year in college, and my mom was alternately stressed out about how much this was financially hurting her employers (not CR at the time), but she would then reassure me that even if it continued to be really bad, she would come up with the money to pay for me to finish 4 years and graduate (though they couldn't afford for me to take any longer than 4 years, lol).
― sarahell, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:21 (eight months ago) link
yeah, i guess my peeled garlic complaint was unjustified. a restaurant prep cook can buzz in 10 seconds what would otherwise take an hour or more. i can recall being in a actual restaurant and having to peel garlic, but only for a small cafe, not a big operation. do it at home though and it takes 5 seconds, just a little smash, remove the paper and chop. or if i need slices i'll soak clove in water and the paper comes off rather easily. agree with the loss of American jobs. and at farmer's markets i have been to, at the right time of year, there is invariably a farmer with onions and garlic. so it's not like a lot of consumers don't have that as another optionxpost
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Friday, 18 October 2019 18:26 (eight months ago) link
generally, when working with fresh garlic, i chop the tips off and then peel by hand, but it's not like that is "the insider's way" -- I don't think I've ever asked my mom how she does it. She used to do catering for a while.
― sarahell, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:36 (eight months ago) link
find peeling garlic very easy, just do the crush with the side of the blade way after chopping the top off (used to chop very bottom off too until an ilxor let me know this was silly)
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Friday, 18 October 2019 18:38 (eight months ago) link
can see peeled garlic making sense in a resto of course
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Friday, 18 October 2019 18:39 (eight months ago) link
speaking of restaurants -- the food allergy episode! OMG!
― sarahell, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:40 (eight months ago) link