Make me love Chris Benoit

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Because you lot all do and I think he's a charismaless roided up midget with no psychology or ability to tell a story. Point out what I'm missing here.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 29 November 2004 22:56 (eighteen years ago) link

You know more about wrestling than I do so I'm not sure I'm qualified. But-

I don't think he's a bad talker so much as he has no setting between off and high. Like, most of the time he sounds wooden and bland but when he manages to get fired up about something (eg his STRUGGLE and SACRAFICE for the WORLD HEVVYWEEGHT CHEMPIONSHEP), he can be pretty intense and convincing, if a bit unimaginative.

Psychology/story-telling and that is the stuff I'm least perceptive about. I do think a lot of his recent RAW matches have tended to be a bit of a parade of chops, German suplexes and headbutts. Do you rate Kurt Angle? I don't see how he's much better psychology-wise (especially when he just busts the ankle lock out of nowhere at the end of a match having not worked the leg at all), but I still enjoy both of their matches more often than not. Some of the earlier Benoit stuff I've seen, eg vs Regal or Bret Hart, had what I'd call good psychology, but I guess more than anything he has this Flair-like thing where his general demeanour and movement just look really calculated and convincing.

Also re psychology - against Orton at Summerslam he took two really stupidly painful looking bumps on his neck, which made the RKO finish seem more credible. I guess it may have been motivated as much by wanting to look dead hard on the way out.

M1chael Ph1lip Ph1lip Ph1lip Ph1lip Ph1lip Ann0yman (Ferg), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, for sheer superficial markout flash - the top rope German Suplex/headbutt on Angle in the cage, and the ten german suplexes on Austin.

Oh, you hate the Germans don't you.

Uh, top rope tombstone in Japan!

M1chael Ph1lip Ph1lip Ph1lip Ph1lip Ph1lip Ann0yman (Ferg), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 00:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Strangely enough, I think Benoit's promo with Maven from two weeks ago, when he tore Maven a new asshole for even thinking about not facing HHH for the title, was his best ever. Great promos never sound scripted, and Benoit usually sounds as though he's trying to remember the words to his promo.

But saying he doesn't know ring psychology is mentalism. That's like Bret Hart's recent comments, in which he claimed that Flair wasn't a good wrestler because he doesn't know psychology.

Benoit and Bret are very similar workers (not a surprise, I suppose, considering they were both trained by Stu). Both have a very "realistic" way of selling. They NEVER oversell a la Shawn or Curt Hennig or Steamboat, they don't do anything unnecessary like the Flair Flop, and they rarely showboat. Most of the newer guys don't work that way anymore, so his style might seem boring to some because he relies less on flash and highspots.

Benoit consistently makes lesser workers look good. He carried the likes of Batista (before he got good), Albert (who was never good), and Big Show to good matches. He did it my selling his ass off, timing his comebacks perfectly, and generally making it look like he slogged through hell to get through the match.

Benoit beats the piss out of people. That's great to see. Nobody else in the WWE makes wrestling look so real.

His moveset is vast, he can wrestle almost every style you care to name, he can resort to highspots and big bumps when he has to.

Having said all this, the IWC's collective jizzing over Benoit goes way too far. He's a fantastic worker, but Angle and Jericho (and even Austin, when he was fully healthy) are his equal or close to it, except those other three guys have the charisma and promo ability to match their in-ring ability.

Essentially, given Benoit's personality detrement, he'd HAVE to be one of the greatest workers ever in order to get as far as he has.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 02:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I like that post, Barry, and I think I agree with pretty much all of it.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think Jericho's that great a worker, his RAW/Smackdown matches were always fairly predictable with a limited moveset (missile dropkick to bulldog into springboard flip off the ropes to power bomb combo to Walls-o-Jericho) and sometimes an outright sloppy wrestler.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Friday, 3 December 2004 03:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Jericho has been plagued by a bit of sloppiness throughout his career. In general, movesets become predictable when the wrestler isn't motivated, or has to face a series of shitty opponents. There was a long run on Raw (from around Jericho's jump from Smackdown right up until Benoit's jump this past January) when Jericho was just about the only reason I kept watching Raw. He was dynamite on the mic, had to feud with a never-ending stream of lunkheads from Kane to Nash to Mark Henry to Scott Steiner to fucking GOLDBERG -- and worked his ass off to pull decent matches out of all of them. Remember the time around WM XIX? Jericho was feuding with Test, Jeff Hardy and Shawn Michaels simultaneously. He got decent feuds and matches out of all of them, including the show stealer at Mania with a still-shaky-post-comeback HBK. Then he moved on to carrying one of the best-built stories the fed had seen in a while -- the Trish (tri)angle -- while still finding time to "feud" with Austin to set up the main storyline at Survivor Series 2003.

All this time, very few feuds with high-level opponents who can work, and yet he's stayed motivated in the ring. I respect the hell out of Jericho. But I grant that for the last couple of months, despite being involved in decent storylines for ones, his in-ring work has been a bit sluggish. But when he gets in there with decent opponents such as Benoit or Rock, he tears the house down, with matches that are anything but formulaic.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 3 December 2004 04:29 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Interview with Benoit in the Sun:,,2003560001-2005042323,00.html

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 29 January 2005 05:30 (seventeen years ago) link

The Sun's wrestling coverage is surprisingly good.

Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman v1.0 (Ferg), Saturday, 29 January 2005 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, they print interviews with WWE wrestlers quite a bit, and I can't recall ever reading one that wasn't good.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 30 January 2005 04:09 (seventeen years ago) link

two years pass...

I'll spare ILE the revive:

marmotwolof, Thursday, 20 December 2007 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link

Pour one out

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 20 December 2007 23:13 (fourteen years ago) link

I actually fondly remember where I was when Anna Nicole died!

King Boy Pato, Saturday, 22 December 2007 06:56 (fourteen years ago) link

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.