AEW 2023: Scissor Me Daddy!

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New set tomorrow shows they are bored of lugging around Cody’s elevator.

Is Sasha/Mercedes Saraya’s partner?

If they continue these storylines, Revolution looks like an amazing show on paper. MJF v D-Bry, Hangman v Mox look on. Dunno if Christian will be fit in time to fight Jungle Boy but that would be a banger. Elite v House of Black is rumoured and would be insane. Hayter keeps having classics, so whoever she fights will be excellent.

Other questions:

Does RoH ever get TV?
Will Miro and Serena Deeb ever be seen again?
Will Mox ever get to go on holiday?
Is Punk gone forever?
Will they ever put more than one women’s match on Dynamite?
Will they ever do something serious with the best wrestler in the world, Eddie Kingston?
Is there going to be Forbidden Door 2?

I’m sure there are others I’m forgetting.

You know, with all the hype around Mercedes showing up in Japan, I totally didn't even consider her being Saraya's partner, but that would rule, honestly.

I would be happy if they did a better streaming service for their wrestling shows across the board, though I know some of their deals with other streaming services makes that a little difficult. It is a pain having to pay to watch AEW on multiple different platforms, though.

I'm really curious how the partnership with NJPW is going to unfold. Forbidden Door was super cool and had lots of great moments, but didn't really feel like it had any long-lasting consequences/results/stories (aside from the really unfortunate Adam Cole injury). I'm hoping that the extended olive branch of sending Omega to Japan will allow for more collaboration that both sides can benefit from, and also allow more talent exchange. Wheeler ruled in BOSJ last year, so I'm hoping that maybe we get some AEW representatives for the G1 this year. Can you imagine a block including Samoa Joe, Jeff Cobb, and Wardlow?

My big question is how long are they going to let MJF's reign of terror continue? I've really liked this run so far, and I think it's been perfect as far as the kind of character MJF is. I hope it lasts a year, especially because I imagine it'll take a while to build up one of the younger guys to be ready to be at that level.

Ucey in the Sky With Diamonds (hourspass), Tuesday, 3 January 2023 22:24 (one year ago) link

god-level sting/darby promo from friday's rampage

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 01:55 (one year ago) link

tonight was like “what if i booked aew”. every match rocked

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 5 January 2023 03:00 (one year ago) link

I don’t like the new set. It looks like they haven’t screwed it together in time. And no tunnels, booooooo. It’s not a big deal though.

Holy fuck MJF v DBry Iron Man match at the next PPV?

I hope MJF is up for it. His longest matches have been great, like the Punk one, so it should be incredible. PPVs already feel too long though lol.

I’m absolutely loving heel Swerve and his douchey bodyguards. Him v Keith Lee will be a banger

Such a good Dynamite so far

Anyone else think there's more to Saraya's declaration of Toni Storm being her tag partner? Seemed weirdly anti-climactic.

Ucey in the Sky With Diamonds (hourspass), Friday, 6 January 2023 00:14 (one year ago) link

Shida looked pretty pissed in the promo, it looks like a good set up to something. Definitely suggests Mercedes/Sasha aint coming though.

Joe-Darby was boss.

I absolutely adore Taz, Ex and Tony during picture-in-picture.

Bit weird to set up Saraya as a bigot (doesn’t address Shida by name before announcing her decision, only “you”) and try to shape Shida’s inevitable (and entirely morally justified) snap into something unreasonable à la The Mega Powers Explode! but if it means Shida gets featured more on TV then I’m here for it, for now.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, 6 January 2023 08:22 (one year ago) link

Honestly wonder if this is a set-up to have Shida and Mercedes team up against Storm/Saraya and Britt/Hayter.

Ucey in the Sky With Diamonds (hourspass), Friday, 6 January 2023 18:00 (one year ago) link

Another great Dynamite. Rampage looks like it could be a good one too with Orange Juice

sorry to be a snowflake about this but there was way too much misogyny/racism/making fun of ppl’s speech impediments in the promo department for me this week. try harder

fantastic show otherwise. takeshita is the guy

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 12 January 2023 14:33 (one year ago) link

It is with a heavy heart that we mourn the tragic passing of Jamin Pugh, known to wrestling fans around the world as Jay Briscoe. Our thoughts are with his family, his friends, and his fans.

— All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) January 18, 2023

This one hurts.

Ucey in the Sky With Diamonds (hourspass), Wednesday, 18 January 2023 04:46 (one year ago) link

up until the last 30 seconds or so, the brian cage/willie mack match was absolute greatness.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 18 January 2023 06:40 (one year ago) link

the jay briscoe stuff is just absolutely devastating

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 January 2023 19:34 (one year ago) link

Yeah the news sucks. Shamefully I’ve never really watched much of the Briscoes. Those recent matches with FTR have been incredible. I did actually remember watching the match against Steen where he won the ROH championship and loving it.

I know the Briscoes have made some pretty vulgar comments in the past but recent talk has suggested that they had regretted them and people can learn and grow from their mistakes.

Maybe when I get a bit of free time I should do a ROH deep dive, my knowledge is scattered and obviously there is years of classic wrestling to discover.

really emotional main event tonight

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 26 January 2023 03:15 (one year ago) link

Cried through most of it. Cried at the neckbreaker. Cried at the Jay Driller.

So happy the Briscoes finally made it to AEW, but I hate the circumstance and I hate that there was so much resistance to it before. Truly one of the best tag teams in modern wrestling.

Ucey in the Sky With Diamonds (hourspass), Thursday, 26 January 2023 18:46 (one year ago) link

eddie kingston/qt marshall on the jay briscoe tribute and celebration had me smiling. great audience participation match.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 07:21 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Fucking hell that was a gnarly show. I’ve been rewatching WWF PPVs recently (I started at SummerSlam 96 and I’m at Breakdown in 98) and I think that just made me appreciate it even more. What a roster who could all have excellent matches AEW has.

But the Texas Deathmatch and the Iron Man were two of the craziest matches I’ve ever seen. I think I need to rewatch them instead of going back to Deadly Games. I think even people who don’t like garbage weapon type matches will still love watching the TDM. Somehow, despite the Barb wire and bricks, it was a back rake that took it over the top. I’m sure Renee was wincing in the back though. And the Iron Man, oh my god. I wasn’t paying much attention to the first 15 minutes as I was doing some work, but after that they beat the living piss out of each other. All 3, including a rare great referee performance, should be applauded. Again though, despite tombstones through tables etc. it was rolling around doing near falls that made it that much better, a proper five star classic.

it was a really excellent show all around but yeah i think its quality is demonstrated by how it contained two outrageously brutal matches that had very distinct personalities and atmospheres

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Monday, 6 March 2023 17:44 (eleven months ago) link

I could've happily watched a second hour of that main, it absolutely flew by

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Monday, 6 March 2023 22:54 (eleven months ago) link

I worked all last weekend and all of this week, so I haven't gotten a chance to watch this yet, but I heard that it was a great show. I'm planning on making the trek to Double or Nothing this year, so I'm glad that Revolution was a solid show.

I've been fascinated by the controversy surrounding MJF allegedly throwing tequila in a kid's face, and his use of his breakup as a heel. Dude is so good.

Zayniac (hourspass), Friday, 10 March 2023 19:07 (eleven months ago) link

Dynamite was supposed to be great, I need to find some time to watch it. But Rampage looks like it’s got 2 certified bangers lined up: Hobbs v Fenix and Brody King v Daniel Garcia, two matches I didn’t know how much I wanted until I saw them advertised

even if you just isolated wednesday's dynamite to the crowd losing their shit whenever omega and jericho were in the ring together, it'd be a great show

hate to say it but i like jeff jarrett now, maybe the most creative guy on the roster in terms of incorporating ref disputes and interference into his matches

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 17 March 2023 13:18 (eleven months ago) link

"hate to say it but i like jeff jarrett now, maybe the most creative guy on the roster in terms of incorporating ref disputes and interference into his matches"

you can take the boy out of Memphis etc.

i haven't watched any A-E-Dub in quite a long time now, i really did fall out of love with it pretty hard, but I got sucked right into the hype around the Kenny Omega vs El Hijo Del Vikingo match and seriously, wtf. why aren't WWE and AEW getting into each other's way hurling tremendous bundles of cash at this guy?! he is incredible!

Windsor Davies, Thursday, 23 March 2023 23:14 (ten months ago) link

have seen ppl comparing it to the experience of seeing Rey Mysterio in 1996 and yeah i think it probably is a bit like that, except Rey Mysterio in 96 was being compared to like Hogan and Piper and Nash and them - this guy just tipped up on an AEW show in 2023 and for 20 or so minutes showed up absolutely everyone. this is how to flip around the ring with style and panache!

Windsor Davies, Thursday, 23 March 2023 23:20 (ten months ago) link

first wrestler i have seen in some time where i've thought "yeah you could charge me money to watch this guy and i'd gladly pay it" and that is the whole deal really ins't it (still not gonna watch the AAA shows which appear on though because come on, life is short)

Windsor Davies, Thursday, 23 March 2023 23:24 (ten months ago) link

I got home too late to catch this, but Vikingo rules. Just when I think I can't be more impressed by him, he proves me wrong. He's still so young, too! He's had some great matches in GCW if you don't want to commit to the AAA shows. If nothing else, it's worth going out of your way to look up his match against Fenix at Triplemania last year.

Zayniac (hourspass), Friday, 24 March 2023 01:06 (ten months ago) link

This Hawaiian is gonna be watching tonight.

Watch the #AEW Road to St. Louis for a breakdown of this week's action, right here!

— All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) March 28, 2023

Zayniac (hourspass), Wednesday, 29 March 2023 23:39 (ten months ago) link


flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 April 2023 01:20 (ten months ago) link

Fucking Wembley Stadium! I’ve gotta figure out how to get some cash together to get my ass to All In

yeah i'm gonna be at that show come hell or high water. can't wait to see what they pull out to try and fill as many seats as possible

Windsor Davies, Thursday, 6 April 2023 08:53 (ten months ago) link

Alright I'll go, but if anyone obscures my view with a sign about a JRPG, a podcast host or Zack Snyder at any point I'm getting arrested

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Thursday, 6 April 2023 09:20 (ten months ago) link

Amen Sgt

i'm so happy for y'all

i was at the show last night and what a dynamite

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 April 2023 16:23 (ten months ago) link

two weeks pass...

I’m lukewarm on AEW at the moment. Not feeling the ‘pillars’ angle at all, I don’t buy Jungle Boy and Darby as World Champion material yet. They’re crying out for a midcard title to fight over; meanwhile Ricky Starks is RIGHT THERE. They’ve really hamstrung Hobbs with the QTV thing, he needs to be his own man. God, there’s so much potential in the company and they’ve got a month and a bit till Double or Nothing but where’s the big money? At least Jericho and Cole has some spark. Everyone holding their breath for CM Punk?

Also, I HATE the new ropes. Whose idea was that? They look cheesy and far too busy.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, 21 April 2023 08:40 (ten months ago) link

haven't seen this week's dynamite yet but starks already exhausted his title shot (it is what it is) and prob won't come back around to it for another six months. would love to see him take it off mjf regardless. however... i feel like he's about to have a feud with jay white and juice and there's nothing to complain about there

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 21 April 2023 14:40 (ten months ago) link

it has been shocking to watch the pillars promos and realize that jungleboy has the strongest promo of any of them, thanks christian

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 21 April 2023 14:41 (ten months ago) link

my hope for the pillars is that it becomes a fatal four-way because none of them feels exactly ready for it yet, i.e. they realize they need each other to take down mjf. this plan will inevitably fail when they remember that one of them needs to be champion. sorry i've been watching too much succession

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 21 April 2023 14:48 (ten months ago) link

i feel like he’s about to have a feud with jay white and juice and there’s nothing to complain about there

Yeah I’m not worried about Starks, he’s clearly a long-term project for the company. It’s just that I buy him as championship, face-of-the-company material in a way that I simply don’t see with Jungle Boy and Darby (yet). And I’m not personally sold on Jungle Boy as a good promo, either; his delivery needs work, and he can’t keep leaning on yelling “shit” to pop the crowd.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, 21 April 2023 16:09 (ten months ago) link

I’m All In… the nosebleeds :)

Dropped an unreasonable amount of money on what I think are decent tickets (I actually have no idea, never done a stadium show before)

Gonna be waiting for this card to drop with my tongue hanging out

Windsor Davies, Tuesday, 2 May 2023 12:41 (nine months ago) link

I was trying to get seats at the front of the stands and ended up in a tiny little pocket of floor seats near the entrance ramp that were in the same price band. That map was fuckin unreadable wtf

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Tuesday, 2 May 2023 12:53 (nine months ago) link

Yeah the map was horrible.

Aw, I hope you guys have fun! I'm doing Double or Nothing and Forbidden Door 2 this year, but one of my friends was trying to get his ticket to All In. I'm sure it's going to be a killer show!

Zayniac (hourspass), Tuesday, 2 May 2023 18:56 (nine months ago) link

there was hate earlier in this thread but the four pillars storyline is fucking amazing rn

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 May 2023 21:41 (nine months ago) link

I wouldn’t characterise not being enthused about it as ‘hate’. I do think the Sammy/MJF bits are funny, though.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, 5 May 2023 11:37 (nine months ago) link

Oh and I’m delighted they’ve returned to the black ring ropes! It’s the little things.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, 5 May 2023 11:39 (nine months ago) link

lol sorry, i mean i was even a little uncertain whether they'd pull it off! did not see the insane chemistry between mjf and sammy coming

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 5 May 2023 17:30 (nine months ago) link

Watching DBry v Swerve and it’s brutal. Def worth seeing. It’s not ended yet and it’s already one of my favourite TV matches of the year.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 11 October 2023 09:40 (four months ago) link

Wow collision looking good too, can't believe the most preternaturally gifted wrestler of the last several decades and possibly ever is going to go one on one with the American Dragon Bryan Danielson

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Wednesday, 11 October 2023 21:51 (four months ago) link

yeah this is really something. two absolute masters of the craft

has Dustin Rhodes retired now? i wanna see both of those guys vs Dustin before they collectively hang it up, itd be the peak of tv wrestling

Windsor Davies, Wednesday, 11 October 2023 22:10 (four months ago) link

dustin was in a team with keith lee pretty recently but idk. he might be gradually drifting toward more backstage/production stuff

ivy., Wednesday, 11 October 2023 22:15 (four months ago) link

Only this week I’ve picked up where I left off watching all WWE ppvs in order and I’m in 2003. My second show Judgment Day, was god awful but the end of the battle royal had Goldust v Christian go at it for a bit. Feels like it might be a mid card feud from that time I might see a lot of, unless that’s when Dustin got sacked for loving the drugs too much. Will report back if I see them have a banger.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 12 October 2023 10:39 (four months ago) link

Danielson and Dustin wrestled on Dynamite in 2021 and it was pretty good iirc

Dustin I think said 2023 would be the last year of his in ring career but he hasn't had that many matches, not sure if he's been hurt or just not featured in plans much

I would have liked to see him work in the flesh at Wembley, but I guess he was never getting squeezed onto that card. Will settle for the Stinger

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Thursday, 12 October 2023 10:52 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

This Ric Flair thing is fucking gross. What an awful decision

Windsor Davies, Thursday, 2 November 2023 20:11 (three months ago) link

Disgusting behaviour. Hilarious that people are sad that the billionaire doesn’t have a moral compass. But also who the fuck wants to see sex criminal 700 year old Ric flair on their tv in 2023?

Honestly might be the worst move Tony has made since starting the company, at a time when people already seem down on the product and they aren’t getting crowds in.

I’m not sure he’ll care that much though while he is busy marking out

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 2 November 2023 23:14 (three months ago) link

and doubling down with whatever Flair's energy drink brand.... absolute braindead decision.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 2 November 2023 23:31 (three months ago) link

Agreed. I do not want to see the sex pest Mumm-Ra on my screen, ever.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, 3 November 2023 16:58 (three months ago) link

idk why AEW is running Ibushi out there - he's performing worse than the Jay White cardboard cutout.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 16 November 2023 16:30 (three months ago) link

Holy shit this Hangman v Swerve match is not for the weak of heart.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 19 November 2023 13:23 (three months ago) link

Ok the spot that happened after I wrote that just made me shout FUUUUCK so loud that i made the dog jump out of his sleep. This is beyond gnarly. I think it’s the most violent match AEW have had so far.

8 stars.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 19 November 2023 13:31 (three months ago) link

I can’t stop thinking about Hanger Swerve. I have to rewatch it but it’s up there with some of my favourite AEW matches of all time.

I’ve seen some people talk shit about the main event storyline but as someone who has watched 1996-2004 WWE recently, it all seemed like normal sport entertaining. The Attitude era would have been shot to pieces so badly if the internet existed in the same way. It seemed like every other week Austin or Goldberg would do the “go away in an ambulance/police car and cast doubt on whether they would make the main event” spot. Wrestling fans need to chill, states captain obvious.

Quite a good PPV with one perfect match and some more characters elevated. Big Bill continues to impress, they seem to have really turned around the women’s division quickly, Swerve looks like a real contender, they got Ospreay to sign… all good stuff.

As some older stars are obviously look to wind down, it is great to see them building up across the roster. There has been times in the past where they have looked uncertain what to do going forward, but now I’m excited I don’t know. The internet crowd may love arguing about ratings and crowd attendances - which seems an incredibly boring waste of time - while I’m just excited that this roster of mostly u35 stars has many directions to go.

Just wish they had less titles and got Eddie (pre show), Takeshita (not on the card) and Kenny (even more unfortunate, Jericho’d) back into the main event scene.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Monday, 20 November 2023 09:44 (three months ago) link

the tbs title threeway was huge for me. they pushed the hell out of skye and julia and they've both been killing it

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 16:49 (three months ago) link

Are we watching the same shows? Julia is doing great but Skye is a waste of space. She’s had many, many months to get a handle on the basics of portraying a character on TV (let alone put things together in the ring) but you can practically see the cogs moving in her brain. There’s a wealth of talent far more deserving of her spot.

I was lukewarm on the PPV overall. I never really bought into the MJF/Adam Cole thing so the main event didn’t have anything for me (it maybe would have if they turned Bay Bay heel and did a Fingerpoke of Doom angle, but that’s just me fantasy booking a more exciting show for me).

I loved Swerve/Hangman 1 but 2 was not my thing. It’s not 1997 anymore, I don’t pop for real-life gore, especially at those extremes, sorry not sorry.

Can’t stand Will Ospreay, “bruv”, but I suppose I’d rather see him there than Ric Flair.

I’m tired of Orange Cassidy right now. Ditto Jon Moxley. That doesn’t have to be the case. Give me more of a reason to care. I mean, they finally turned MJF around from his weak-champion status a couple of months ago (even if I don’t care for the shtick).

As for the attendance issue, I don’t think it’s a boring waste of time to point out how desperate it looks on TV. Especially the weekly ROH shows, which arguably are stronger than the main roster week to week but there’s clearly fuck-all people there, and it’s frankly embarrassing.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Monday, 20 November 2023 17:21 (three months ago) link

no i don't think we are watching the same shows, and all of these lines of criticism are why i don't talk about wrestling on the internet very much anymore. "i don't pop for real-life gore" ok cornette

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 17:37 (three months ago) link

"can't stand will ospreay" you can't stand the best wrestler alive? i'm so tired, stop watching the product

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 17:37 (three months ago) link

skye had the best spot in the three way match! she is weak on the mic but has been radically improving since julia misted her! idk try to enjoy things

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 17:39 (three months ago) link

i feel like such a child when i respond to stuff like this but it's really like... i love wrestling and i think aew puts on the best shows for people who love wrestling in all its different formations, and every match in full gear showcased a different type of wrestling at its peak. this is exactly what i want! whereas the wider international wrestling community only seemed really enthusiastic about aew when collision was being run by punk and was fucking boring as hell

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 17:43 (three months ago) link

As for the attendance issue, I don’t think it’s a boring waste of time to point out how desperate it looks on TV. Especially the weekly ROH shows, which arguably are stronger than the main roster week to week but there’s clearly fuck-all people there, and it’s frankly embarrassing.

ROH airs on the fucking internet! caring about this is fucking embarrasing

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 17:46 (three months ago) link

wrestlenomics poisoning wrestling discourse wherever i go!

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 17:46 (three months ago) link

and this goes beyond macdara's post but i have been astonished that ppl do not like the mjf/cole/strong/kingdom arc, a storyline that has made two new wrestling fans out of people i know who never really cared about it before! except i am not astonished because it seems wrestling fans have an incredibly narrow, practically invisble-to-the-naked-eye definition of what is good wrestling, and i can't help but think this is why wwe sucked so hard for so long, because they had a very narrow definition of what was "good," and also what they think is "good" is so very very very bad

also obv i don't engage with wwe discourse if i can help it but does anyone talk about raw or nxt crowd attendance? i assume it doesn't matter bc of the dominance of wwe? so conversely i think ppl only talk about aew crowds out of anxiety or a weird hostility toward the product that they feel is confirmed by crowd presence, but also these criticisms are never ever ever levied in good faith, cf. saying roh attendance is pitiful when they tape it after another show. it's along the lines of "damn this aew dark episode they filmed at orlando has such a small crowd, they must be failing because they suck at what they're doing." needless to say los angeles was fucking losing it during the entirety of full gear

god. even typing out this paragraph has made me TIRED. wrestling fans aspire to be the record store clerks i've always hated

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 18:16 (three months ago) link

I don’t need to go into a detailed repudiation of the characterisation you’ve presented above, other than to say: I don’t like what you like, it comes from an honest place, and that’s the response? Fuck me for having feelings about this stuff, jesus fucking christ.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Monday, 20 November 2023 18:26 (three months ago) link

sorry! obv i got really emotional in response bc you called one of my favorite wrestlers on the program rn a waste of space!

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 18:31 (three months ago) link

That wasn’t a personal attack, so please don’t take it as such. We’re not going to agree on the merits of Skye Blue and I’m not about to needle you about it either, I’ve made my opinion clear.

You can take back the Cornette jab, too. The last thing I want is to be compared to that dickhead. My feelings on the gore stand; I loved Bret/Austin at Mania 13 so much I made poster for it in art class at school! But that match at the weekend grossed me out. It’s too fucking much and if you don’t appreciate how anyone can feel that way, I don’t know what to say.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Monday, 20 November 2023 18:36 (three months ago) link

it grossed me out too! and i am a bigger fan of death matches than most! but it was the kind of escalation that was completely earned by the storyline, and it made both wrestlers look like insane beautiful bloody titans clashing for the entirety of the match

nothing i said was a personal attack either, it is just a side-effect of enduring a lot of the same "ho-hum" takes about a show that was full of great wrestling, and i'm sorry about the cornette jab, it's just he drives a lot of the discourse about aew i try really hard to remain ignorant about but still manage to see, and i see various permutations of it here pretty often too. but i've said my piece and i will prob not chime in again anytime soon

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 18:45 (three months ago) link

well, ok, one last thing, i really do not understand not being excited about will ospreay signing. every singles match that guy did this year is a moty candidate. can u fucking imagine what modern-day ospreay vs. modern-day swerve will be like

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 18:50 (three months ago) link

I’m not excited about Ospreay because there’s still a whiff of #SpeakingOut about him as far as I’m concerned. I take nothing away from his abilities in the ring at all. I used to really enjoy his stuff, and now I don’t. I guess he’s always had the “bruv” thing going on but since I’ve soured on him, it grates on me more. That’s my entirely subjective opinion on him.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Monday, 20 November 2023 18:55 (three months ago) link

but i’ve said my piece and i will prob not chime in again anytime soon

Ah don’t be like that, your opinions and feelings are just as valid as mine or anyone else’s, even if we (meaning everyone here) disagree on stuff.

I can be a moan about stuff and that’s off-putting, I get that. I suppose I’m just in a trough where I wish I liked what it was seeing more. But I’ve been a fan long enough to know that won’t last forever.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Monday, 20 November 2023 19:01 (three months ago) link

Just to be clear, there were no accusations towards Ospreay regarding #speakingout, right? The worst anyone can pin on him is that he didn't disown britwrestling and by association the people in it who did get called out, which, ok, maybe he should have been a harsher critic to his friends and colleagues in public for their horrible actions, but I can understand why he wasn't. If you didn't like his response, fair enough. How do you feel about every WWE employee not criticising Vince when that last bout of accusations came out? Put you off Roman Reigns?

I do get your points though. That TDM was gratuitous. Even Tazz sounded grossed out, and he used to work with New Jack. I just personally loved every second of it. It was insane, carnal violence, with an incredible storytelling and starmaking. And I'm somewhere in the middle of you both when it comes to Skye Blue. She's definitely still green, but I think she has a talented future ahead of her. Kind of reminds me of Bayley before the NXT Sasha matches.

Also fascinated that what you think that the MJF storyline you dont care for needs is a fingerpoke of doom.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Monday, 20 November 2023 22:02 (three months ago) link

One thing I do agree on is Mox seems a bit stale atm. With Bryan winding down, it might be time to end the BCC and give Mox/CC/Yuta all individual refreshes.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Monday, 20 November 2023 22:03 (three months ago) link

over in the WWE thread our very own ahoyhoy has been documenting his own Quixotic attempt to. chronologically watch every WWE PPV (and possibly even some of the TV shows to but that's too masochistic for contemplation) from the legendarily fallow years of the mid 00s (i mean seriously how is he doing it?! that shit is the *PITS*) and he's apparently making excellent progress and even seems to be enjoying himself while doing it!

at the same time he has posted bewilderedly about how mid 80s Jim Crockett / NWA seems to him to be the worst shit ever (paraphrasing slightly) and how did anyone ever enjoy this crap? which is funny because received wrestling-nerd wisdom says that mid 80s Jim Crockett / NWA is some of the greatest stuff ever (discounting Japan) (this is correct) and while mid 00s WWE is the nadir of the art form (also basically correct).

obviously the internet is polluted with Cornette's shitheads and tedious WWE fans but i don't think that's true of any of the small handful of posters that reply to these threads and i don't it's fair to impute bad faith in any given direction when posters express criticisms of AEW itt. people like what they like. no matter how wrong they are

Windsor Davies, Monday, 20 November 2023 22:27 (three months ago) link

xp yeah Ospreay got called out for some stuff although I am too tired to dredge up the details. not that he was accused of assault or anything but that he used his flex to punish a woman that spoke out against one of one his friends, or something? idk it wasn't great. but you're in murky waters when you start writing off wrestlers for being shitty people. you are also of course in murky waters when you start giving shitty people a pass on the basis that all wrestlers are shitty people.

in conclusion, these are murky waters.

Windsor Davies, Monday, 20 November 2023 22:30 (three months ago) link

I gave up on my network subscription for a bit but I was actually starting to enjoy nwa after 86. Bunkhouse stampede 88 was a real highlight (if you can let the kayfabe of being eliminated from a battle royal over a freaking cage) along with the return of steamboat. Those Flair-Dragon matches still really hold up.

But yeah I think Starrcade 83/84 are like Wrestlemanias 1-5; in which I would only consider rewatching for a couple matches, now I’ve seen them for historical reasons.

Shame to hear that about Ospreay but yeah, it’s murky waters.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Monday, 20 November 2023 23:04 (three months ago) link

Those Flair-Dragon matches still really hold up.

that series absolutely tanked their business. one of those fun times that wrestling fans got to argue out "art vs business, which one is more important". thankfully a definitive answer was reached and everyone felt thoroughly ashamed of themselves. we had learned our lesson and wrestling fans never had to put up with such things again

Windsor Davies, Monday, 20 November 2023 23:26 (three months ago) link

also did you do the Flair vs Funk 89 feud? that's the pinnacle of the 80s NWA scene.

Windsor Davies, Monday, 20 November 2023 23:28 (three months ago) link

Ospreay is interesting because for years he represented the "worst excesses" of modern wrestling and was for a time an absolute pariah in certain circles as a result. he reined it in a bit and got quite a lot better but I must confess i'm kinda bemused that he has gained this rep as the undisputed best wrestler in the world. Omega went through a v. similar arc a few years earlier

Danielson would (and god willing will, before he calls it quits) wrestle rings round them both

Windsor Davies, Monday, 20 November 2023 23:37 (three months ago) link

i assume they know we’ll all need omega/danielson 2 before the latter retires

ivy., Monday, 20 November 2023 23:41 (three months ago) link

i mean if he is for really for real about hanging it up next year (and it feels like he probably is) and the Okada match is already pencilled in for the fourth of Jan (which is basically THE MATCH at this stage looking at it from the artistic POV) then yeah we can only hope that they've prepared a short list for the other big PPVs, Omega and Ospreay at the top of that list

Windsor Davies, Monday, 20 November 2023 23:45 (three months ago) link

Also fascinated that what you think that the MJF storyline you dont care for needs is a fingerpoke of doom.

I mean I’m only half serious about it, but… It’s weird that Adam Cole is the only guy with an injury who’s still on TV every week. Even for a main eventer. Him stepping in for MJF with a gammy ankle (if it’s really that gammy) would have been the perfect set-up: imagine if he had laid down in the ring for Jay White! And I don’t mean it merely from a ‘rile everybody up’ perspective; there’s storyline substance there too. If you’re an MJF guy, don’t you want to see him up against his toughest challenge yet? But nah, they kept the friends-till-the-end thing going and I have no interest in that (nor Bullet Club Gold as they are now, for that matter). Meanwhile, ROH tag teams have no championship to fight for.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Tuesday, 21 November 2023 00:29 (three months ago) link

ROH should always have been kept separate and run as its own thing. i remember I posted on here around the time that the buyout occurred that it would be a good thing thing that would benefit everyone, cause i really thought it would

a proper developmental brand that only the geeks would actually watch weekly and that would therefore provide the necessary space for people to work on their act in front of ok-sized and reasonably invested crowds, working longer matches higher up the card than they would] be able to on the main AEW shows, good mix of veteran (but not superstar) talent and ppl from the indys looking to get a shot in AEW maybe.

They've gestured towards this iwith guys like Samoa Joe and Eddie Kingston but fundamentally it has all felt a bit pointless. the new AEW Dark. where have the big standalone non-AEW ROH angles been since TK took over?

Windsor Davies, Tuesday, 21 November 2023 00:56 (three months ago) link

I did not get to Funk Flair, but i've seen it before.

The ROH botch job is basically key to all of the mess at AEW, isnt it? Too many shows, too many titles, too many wrestlers, creative spread too thin etc.

I'm kinda fascinated by the backlash to the MJF stuff. "People" have called for more sports entertainment type storylines, for "the casuals" etc. and now it is happening, toys are being from out of the pram. I think the reality seems to just be that wrestling fans just don't like wrestling (not MacDara, thinking the more general internet backlash.) I presume it can be broken down by someone much smarter than me as to why.

Like I don't generally watch WWE because I don't care for the style (Seth Rollins brings me out in hives), but I can appreciate what's happening over there. The weird internet ever changing hatred for AEW seems like a whole different kettle of fish though. Like the recent "they only care about Japanese wrestling and obscure indie guys and never sign anyone!" turnaround post signing Edge to "eurgh they are just old wwe guys". I've never listened to Cornette's podcast but he is the ringleader, right? He must be raking it in advertising dick pills. I just had a look on spotify and his weekly podcasts are over 3 hours long! That's longer than Raw! Imagine listening to the 80s nonce with a tennis bat in sparkly trousers for half a work day, that's insane.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 21 November 2023 09:52 (three months ago) link

where have the big standalone non-AEW ROH angles been since TK took over?

there are a few on the show right now. the big one being athena mentoring billie starkz (prob the best storyline in wrestling rn just imo)

idk i think it’s basically become the developmental brand you described. was dark not developmental? the only missing element is a real tv deal

ivy., Tuesday, 21 November 2023 14:41 (three months ago) link

of course i mention athena and ppl will inevitably complain that she’s not on aew tv or ppvs

the cards for roh have been straight up amazing for months now. it just needs to not be locked behind a paywall that only marks like me subscribe to

ivy., Tuesday, 21 November 2023 14:44 (three months ago) link

i do think mjf and cole not giving up the tag titles when cole got injured was a mistake, and now it’s like the belts are a gimmick just for mjf to wrestle twice per ppv (not something i’m exactly complaining about bc i *liked* the ambulance angle, but it does like completely sideline the title)

ivy., Tuesday, 21 November 2023 14:48 (three months ago) link

I don't watch ROH but FTR-Briscoes seemed like a massive deal that wasn't really shown on AEW tv and is seen as possibly ROHs best tag team feud.

sell cigs to kids (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 21 November 2023 15:42 (three months ago) link

ROH isn’t promoted on the TBS or TNT shows. Maybe they’ve done an onscreen graphic for Final Battle once or twice, but that’s about it. There’s no 60-second recap to boost interest in the show, which I think would help a lot. Maybe that’s a weird contractual thing, like WBD doesn’t want them promoting their own thing, save for PPVs (which are on an WBD-owned app in North America anyway)? So they put the ROH belts on Dynamite and Rampage and Collision but that doesn’t translate to eyes on the show, it only reinforces the idea that the champs are AEW guys you’ll see on the shows you’re already watching so why bother? It sucks because they’re people on the show are trying to give it its own personality beyond a mere Dark replacement (and the women there are killing it, especially).

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Tuesday, 21 November 2023 16:41 (three months ago) link

there are a few on the show right now. the big one being athena mentoring billie starkz (prob the best storyline in wrestling rn just imo)

This much we agree on! I mean, maybe it’s not my absolute favourite thing, but it’s up there.

wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Tuesday, 21 November 2023 16:43 (three months ago) link

it’s really amazing character work all around, elevating a young talent, etc. it should always be like this

ivy., Tuesday, 21 November 2023 20:49 (three months ago) link

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