rolling Jericho calls The New Day trap queens 2016

i would definitely be interested in reading some serious scholarly work on the fucked up history of pro-rasslin'

surprising myself with how put out that Danielson news makes me, i'm not normally at all bothered by retirements or like, celebrity deaths or whatever. i've been toying with the idea of watching the entire Danielson-McGuinness feud from start to finish.

is there any wrestler of his status and ability more entirely and justifiably beloved than Bryan Danielson? like ever? Eddie, perhaps? I was thinking about Bret but even Bret, as much as I love him, has got a few too many homophobic/womanising black marks on his record to qualify.

Owen was amazing obv. but for all his brilliance he was never at the level that Bryan is/was

I will wait till i've seen Raw to say anything because lol its wrestling and everyones injured, but yeah it seems likely to be true and really sucks. He was the greatest professional wrestler, I loved everything he did and to see his true peak at the top of the mountain end with two terribly timed injuries really is unfortunate.

probably isn't but bryan's announcement could be a work?

just hoping it's retiring from WWE and not from wrestling

(which is sort of selfishly what i was hoping for anyway)

to the extent that in wrestling everything might always be a work, sure, but it feels legit. ESPN appearance booked in with the Coachman, Meltzer reporting that this has been prompted by some recent (pre-Rumble) brain scans that are not looking what they should be for a healthy 34 year old guy and so on :(((((

i mean obviously it'd be sweet if at the climatic moment of his big retirement speech, just as everyone is bursting into floods of tears, Sheamus jumps into the ring and kicks him in the face or sthing to FINALLY set up the Wrestlemania match that they were destined never too have, but yeah. i don't think so this time, would love to be proved wrong

xpost to qualx - if his brains really are scrambled then i think it'd probably be better if he didn't go off to New Japan to let Okada hit him in the head real hard or w/e

i'm inclined to believe him (and meltzer etc) when he says he's been cleared by everyone except maroon. hopefully he'd stop taking head shots but i don't think you can keep him away from wrestling if that's his choice right now

i'm just hoping this doesn't result in a nasty lawsuit with WWE because of their non-compete bullshit

but aside from that, i think he's had a very good career in WWE but this whole saga makes me uneasy and even if he did come back to wrestle, we'd all just be waiting for them to shut him down again

Yeah, as incredible as it would be for WWE to pull a fast one on the fans AND the media with this, I think it's for real, and for the best. For his sake, I hope Bryan retires and stays retired. (Although I'm afraid it may take some contract maneuvering on WWE's part to get him to stick to that second bit.)

If he does retire tonight as expected, I wonder what effect this might have on the broader culture of pro wrestling. Will it motivate some ambitious indie wrestlers to tone down their style, for fear of being forced into retirement in what should have been their prime?* Will it move WWE to tone down the increasingly high-spot-driven house style that's been developing over the past few years, thanks in part to guys like DB? Will we look back on this as a turning point for how seriously concussions are taken within the industry?

*I don't follow the independent scene at all really, but I have heard that there's a wave of guys right now who are making their names on an updated version of the old-school World of Sport UK mat wrestling style. I think that's pretty cool. I've thought for a while that nifty chain wrestling could make inroads in the mainstream with the right proponents, since it can be both crowd-pleasing a relatively safe. Chad Gable offers a glimpse into a possible future there.

Xpost I think that's the point that meltzer's made today though?? That bryan's finally been convinced himself that there's no way back from here following these recent brain scans??

Nb I have no clue what "brain scans"
means here or how they would differ from whatever else he's been having done for the last 9 months. But that's what 411mania says that Dave meltZer is saying, and as any fool knows that is about as close to truth as you can get in wrestling

:(

o man :''''''''(

Ok so I just woke up in the middle of the night to cry like a baby.

Daniel Bryan was truly the best thing to ever happen to professional wrestling and i'm happy that he seems to have learnt to retire before he ended up even more hurt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsX1ATcyQxU

Daniel Bryan was truly the best thing to ever happen to professional wrestling and i'm happy that he seems to have learnt to retire before he ended up even more hurt.

Remember what Edge said about feeling the weight lift off his shoulders when the doctors took the decision out of his hands? I think the same thing is going on here. I hope he doesn't disappear from the business, but I never want to see him take a bump again, he owes that to himself and his loved ones.

With that being said, I've got YEARS worth of Bryan Danielson matches that I've never seen, only ever read about, that I can watch from here on in.

i'm seeing WWE getting good press for this but it's still worth questioning why tommy dreamer was allowed back for multiple matches

Get him in as a trainer down in NXT and make him a big part of the next season of Breaking Ground. Show him and William Regal being nerdlinger wrestling bros together :) A generation of new superstars trained by William Regal and Daniel Bryan, imagine!

With that being said, I've got YEARS worth of Bryan Danielson matches that I've never seen, only ever read about, that I can watch from here on in.

Yeah I'm feeling this pretty strongly right now, I've seen hardly any Ring of Honor stuff from before the last year or two. I downloaded all of the Danielson/McGuinness matches last night (watched the first one from the 2006 Weekend of Champions, it was really really great, cant wait to see more) and one of the ones I picked up was a fatal-four-way of Danielson vs McGuinness vs Castagnoli vs Black.

I knew they all came through Ring of Honor at some point, I never realised that they were all main-eventing at the same time. And then from a little earlier there were matches with Punk and Joe, and then a little later matches with KENTA, Steen and Generico. It was at this point that it hit me with full weight for the first time that holy shit, all the best stuff in WWE for years now has basically just been mid-late 00s Ring of Honor.

I don't follow the independent scene at all really, but I have heard that there's a wave of guys right now who are making their names on an updated version of the old-school World of Sport UK mat wrestling style

Yeah this is all the EVOLVE dudes right? Zack Sabre Jr., Timothy Thatcher, Drew Gulak and so on? Quite wanna start paying attention to this stuff

can't find a source but i've read that he's tried training before and hated it because he has no patience for trainees that essentially aren't as nerdy and dedicated to wrestling as him and regal

which sounds right

He also talks in his book about being a bad trainer - he did it for Roland Alexander for a while when he was only a greenhorn himself. Though that shouldn't stop him popping in now and then for special coaching/pep-talk sessions like they're doing with Quack this week, if he were game.

quackenbush was at nxt?

shit dun' changed

It's a sad way to go out but he really had a exceptional career. Who knows how many concussions he had, especially wrestling in that style. I keep thinking of a guy like Nick Bockwinkel, who was universally regarded as one of the smartest, most cerebral wrestlers ever, ending up with severe Alzheimers in his final years. Even at age 50 I'm sure he would have passed most or maybe all of the tests that Bryan took.

Like others here, I have years of Brian Danielson matches to catch up on -- stuff I read about while it was going on but never got around to checking out. Danielson vs Morishima, vs McGuinness, vs Joe ... a few weeks ago I stumbled upon a Tanahashi vs Danielson match!

In less important news, I have no clue what WWE is trying to accomplish with Roman Reigns anymore. The match at Fastlane is all about Lesnar vs Ambrose, while Reigns is just a guy who happens to be hanging around in the background while they fight. Shouldn't the main story be about Reigns and Lesnar having unfinished business from last years' Mania, while Ambrose tries to weasel his way into the title picture? I don't get it.

10 documented concussions, many more undocumented, occasional seizures that he didn't tell anyone about, lesions on his brain. fuuuuuucking hell bryan :(((((

dad of the year mr charity work titus oneill suspended 90 days for lightly grabbing vinces arm after raw ended?

black history month at the wwe everybody

Or vinny mac prepared to swallow a "cranky out of touch old bastard does something crazy" shaped pill in order to prevent telling anyone that dad of the year Titus has been on the naughty juice

Drug suspension is 30day, doing something slightly innapropriate after raw and while they all walk off stage is 90 days

Fair nuff, massive overreaction of course, but p. much serves him right anyway imo, was a stupid thing to do.

http://i.imgur.com/8v4kQ14.jpg

Maura - you have a magazine and its got okada on the front cover???

the whole issue is wrestling!

I just bought it - kind of a pain as the website kept timing out setting up my account, and no PayPal option?. Anyway, looking forward to reading this along with the Gary Hart memoir and the latest Atomic Elbow that's been sitting here for weeks.

What magazine is this?

Maura Magazine, Oct. 2015

it's true

"10 week long WWE Network-exclusive 32 man invitational cruiserweight tournament at Full Sail", it says here

http://babysimpson.co.uk/gallery/frames/5/1f12/375.jpg

Also interesting that Triple H name-dropped PROGRESS and Rev Pro along with Evolve. Probably also explains the meeting with Lucha Underground recently - I'd guess they want Ricochet in this thing for sure.

The feckin' spoilers on this will be killer, though. I imagine they'll be taping this whole thing over a few days so they can get lock down everyone they want in the same place at the same time.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/mediamonkeyblog/2016/feb/17/new-day-trinity-mirror-wrestles-with-the-daily-newspaper-market

So, the cruiserweight thing sounds incredible. There is talk of a lucha quota, possibly some japanese guys (liger is rumoured), all the british guys like thatcher and sabre jr, ricochet and some other indie stars and the talent who will be nxts main event in the next 18 months. No hornswaggle despite him being reigning champ.

It could just be a boring ass spot fest for a while, but if its the same bookers as nxt and a load of guys lookinh to really push out and make a name for themselves it could be the best thing we see all year.

https://www.facebook.com/JoeyRyanOnline/videos/1350979128249253/

So, the cruiserweight thing sounds incredible. There is talk of a lucha quota, possibly some japanese guys (liger is rumoured), all the british guys like thatcher and sabre jr, ricochet and some other indie stars and the talent who will be nxts main event in the next 18 months

will be interesting to see how all this plays out for sure. it seems a lot will depend on contract status and stuff like that for the guys they wanna get, as I think WWE have probably burned a ton of bridges in the recent past with some of their behaviour - will we really be seeing Jushin Liger back on WWE tv again anytime soon after the way they've just bowled in and scooped the guts out of the NJPW roster?

this was exactly why NJPW refused outright to a deal that was (reportedly) floated where WWE got to broadcast New Japan stuff on the Network (god how amazing would that have been?!), saying that they'd have to be chumps to agree to a situation where the WWE were promoting all the New Japan guys and just waiting to snaffle any talent that got over outside of Japan. of course as it turned out the WWE just shrugged their shoulders and did exactly that anyway.

and how are AAA/Lucha Underground wrt contracts and exclusivity? weren't WWE dicking them around with Rey Mysterio's non-compete for a while there so they weren't able to use him during season 1?

a bunch of these dudes (Sabre, Ospreay, possibly Ricochet? i forget) are being pimped as the next bunch of guys being primed to go to NJPW and fill out that roster a bit. especially if NJPW are now offering multi-year guaranteed contracts as a means of fighting WWE talent raids, maybe that would be more appealing to some of these hot-shot indy guys than an "opportunity" in this cruiserweight open deal with no guarantees at the end of it?

but then those guys are all still being booked on Evolve shows around WM weekend and WWE seems to have a pretty good relationship with Evolve and the WWNLive thing, so who knows?!

idk idk, this is all vague speculation and hearsay, it'd be fucking brilliant to get the real headline indy and international talent to come in and work this thing. either way i think it's a cool and exciting thing.

on the subject of Zack Sabre Jr. though, has anyone here seen much of his stuff / can anyone make any recommendations? I've been watching a few matches of his from Evolve and Progress and I really really like the idea of him, but so far it hasn't hit the spot for me.

He's clearly very talented but the whole act seems a little too... performative? like he's only ever putting on an exhibition. it's very pretty to look at but there's no heat to it and it never feels like he's in a real fight. is this part of what people mean when they talk about the weirdness of old World of Sport mat-based stuff?

boo

i don't need a swerve a week but it genuinely feels like they've just given up on surprising us at all, or ever doing anything other than the most obvious thing

roman won, it was an engaging match, and nothing interesting happened at all. it was the exact story we knew they were going to tell with shades of the exact stories they've been telling for the past year with these characters. it doesn't feel like pre-attitude booking, it feels like pre-80s booking, except kayfabe is dead. there's no heat, nothing matters, who cares?

Yeah also we got the league of nations instead of enzo&cass.

Why fucking care? Fans are fucking crying out for some very simple things that would make it so much better. And if they cant be bothered in doing aaaaanything exciting, eh why not respond with apathy and watching less?

Theyve made BROCK LESNAR not seem special.

meanwhile, this is going to sound super terrible because jim cornette i think said a similar thing a while ago and smarks all around thought it was dumb because i don't think they really got the point:

nxt and by extension the cruiserweight thing and breaking ground -- all the 'minor league' stuff -- feel more and more cynical the crappier the main product gets, like they really only do exist to retain the $9.99/mo from the 'niche' that rejects a roman/HHH main event, basically negating all main roster criticism. WWE knows how to book a 'good' show with heat and engaging angles and characters but they've decided it's more lucrative to toss that out the window and segregate their audiences into "loud fatasses" and "spending-as-fuck families", even if it kills raw ratings and creates a generally embarrassing product. the generic response to cornette's ranting was "well duh, if they give us a product we like (nxt) of course we'll pay for it!" without really grasping that they're giving WWE 100% of the money WWE thinks they'll be able to extract from them anyway and not a penny less. you can't whine about WWE "not listening to its fans" and then keep on spending your $9.99+the occasional enzo/bayley shirt and NXT tour ticket (and invariably watching the network PPVs anyway because hey why not), when that is all WWE ever planned on getting from you. they're not gonna make any extra money off the internet crowd by making raw a good show. the network leveled everything and allowed them to exploit the demos with perfect market segregation. raw is doing fine -- they don't even get direct money off cable ads iirc and USA will continue to love it as long as it's still their #1 show, which isn't going to change. a smarky smark criticizing raw means as much to them as a kid decked out in cena gear criticizing NXT. each fan is still paying what they're gonna pay.

i hate corny but i think he's right. (i probably wouldn't be this irked about it if NXT wasn't super boring right now imo, though i guess it's about to get more interesting)

but WWE is being pretty smart. i think there's a lot more money to be made by doing things differently -- i think wrestling could absolutely be primed to cross over in a major way again with a change in direction -- but they'd clearly rather not take the risk when the network plan has been so successful.

super xps to myself tho relevant to ahh's posts !

i'm also pretty sure at this point that they seriously got styles as a ready-made bryan replacement. jericho kicking out of the clash and immediately submitting to the "calf crusher" seems telling.