no boys allowed in the room!!!!

is this a matter of risk taking behavior? what sort of things are you guys talking about?

I am having a hard time believing that a the mo' but thanks for saying that, Abbs.

It's really hard, for me, trying to sort through that Fear thing. When it's legit and when it's not. My detectors got completely broken. Like, if you have spent a lot of time around people who deliberately fuck with your flag settings in order to manipulate you or do horrible shit to you, it makes it really really hard to trust your reactions ever again. It's like living with a broken thermostat (because a dishonest landlord once wanted you never to turn the heating on.) Or something like that.

I guess I kind of get it. I'm sorry for being dense. When you've been burned, it's hard not to expect to get burned over and over again, especially if you were burned young. At least that's what I tell myself when I start to wonder if I'm seeing things clearly.

WCC OTM. Or if you've intentionally ignored red flags in the past bc if you didn't, your situation would mean you are in panic mode 100% of the time. Throws the whole thing off kilter.

It's partly that - that when you've been burned badly, you expect to be burned.

But it's kind of more than that. That some ppl will deliberately try to sabotage your whole flagging system and pretty much gaslight you into thinking that you can't actually trust your own reactions, in order to fool you into thinking that things are OK, when things are really seriously not OK.

I dunno if that's what Abbs & Julia are talking about, tho.

>sabotage your whole flagging system and pretty much gaslight you into thinking that you can't actually trust your own reactions

i have a tendency to second-guess my reactions to a wide range of things because of a long long history of this.

I've been watching Church videos and feeling feelings about stupid things that I felt in 9th grade, a zillion years ago. A waste of time, basically, but fun to remember for the sheer melodrama. V sorry if I am being dense.

(please note i am not intentionally wasting time, i'm doing this for a reason)

That broken signaling system may bear some responsibility for the fact that people who've been harmed/abused are more likely to be harmed again by someone else? Just speaking extremely broadly, obviously not indicative for any one case.

This is kinda what I have to tell myself sometimes. When I look back at my sexual/relationship/abuse history and I think "how the fuck can so much of this stupid shit have happened to one person?" like I must be bringing these things on myself repeatedly. (internalised victim blaming blah blah blah) But trying to tell myself, no, it's just that your signalling system is broken.

Oh yes, and also - alcohol.

Oh god I hate thinking about this shit. :-(

I don't wanna go there, I want to think happy thoughts!

here is a picture of Tilda Swinton with the best haircut in the universe. I wish I could get away with that, but I do not have the bone structure.

http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/f3/e5/cigarette,photography,tilda,swinton,babe,celeb,smoke-f3e507a700476f02051efc81c5a47730_h.jpg

I was just reduced to sobs by a Dr Who Christmas special = I should pick up some tampons while I'm out.

Also nobody has that bone structure: her mouth is wide open, elongating her cheeks and making her chin shadows look more distinct and hollowed out, and the hair is hiding her nose and forehead, plus photochopped all to hell.

omg tell me you have seen the tilda/bowie blog?
they are both amazing beautiful aliens

http://tildastardust.tumblr.com/

Oh my that is fantastic. Her face is so fascinating (also she got STYLE)

Btw I technically had hair fairly similar to that cut and it N-E-V-E-R looked like that, also I got hair wax all over my collar all the time, also as I may have mentioned before I looked like Zoe Ball.

Well, there is also...

http://www.anothermag.com/filestorage/20/7/27667.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/KBd3c.png

And there was me all feeling pleased with myself coz I thought I had finally found a style icon that was at least the correct sex, but that's not going to work, is it?

I had, basically, THIS hair, when I was 15, and then again when I was in my late 20s

http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/42433/tilda-swinton_M_jpg_627x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg

But I was a lot thinner and, more crucially, lived in a lot less humid environment. Hair like that works in a dry, mountainous region, it doesn't work in the malarial swamps of South London.

I just absolutely love, love, love her clothes and her style and everything - she does androgyny in the way that I would love to be able to pull off. But my body would always betray me. Just like it always does when all the people I want to dress like are dudes. Why oh why isn't there a fat-girl version of the Weimar Lesbian look I used to rock? It's not fair.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha oh god

http://www.morphthing.com/showimage/2/0/0/10436613/Thom-Yorke--Tilda-Swinton.jpeg

OMG that website (again)!
http://www.morphthing.com/showimage/2/0/0/37010075/Michael-Jackson--Tilda-Swinton.jpeg

kinda looks like Sigourney Weaver

No, that one is just RONG.

I love MorphThing far too much for my own good. It's so hilarious.

I was looking for fashion icons for you all morning, WCC, but they kept being feminized men instead of androgynized women, and they were all couture-y, ie thin as reeds and not a one over 30. I see that it's a bit hard to find really on-point role models when you actually do NOT want to "feminized menswear" but actual menswear.

I think p much everyone, man and woman alike, looks good w/chin- or mouth-length hair.

Well, part of the problem is I am just so physically BIG (I am tall, and have very wide shoulders as well as being heavy) and so 90% of womens clothes just do not *fit* me. And the few that do, they tend towards tent-y. I would be happy to do sort of feminised menswear if I could get it in my size, but I expect it would probably have to be hand tailored. I suppose I might as well get some tailored as my weight seems to have stabilised. A friend of mine got some tweeds hand tailored in Hong Kong and they are dazzling.

It seems with women who are big and buxom, the thing they seem to do is wear very feminine clothes, with cinched waists and deep bosoms but good god the last thing I want to do is draw attention to my breasts. And I can't abide dresses and feminine clothes, I just feel like a horse wearing drag.

Welllllll you could buy men's shirts with the right shoulder width and have the bodies tailored, that would be an affordable alternative to custom shirts. And...suiting vests are good for waist defining?

I saw a picture of a menswear "skirt" made out of like fisherman's sweater with leather-bound edges and buckles on it and it fairly screamed You.

I think curvy women look good in vests, ties, and dress shirts. The vest would work with your waist, although a well-fitted dress shirt and pants would probably require some tailoring.

xp!

I think I would go pared-down rock and roll for everyday, though. Buy nice Tshirts, not underwear ones but something nicer & heavier, in 2 or 3 neutrals (grey, black?) and put them with pinstriped vests, women's jeans because they have to fit, and your engineer boots. That plus a really intersting haircut and maybe professional hair color would be a whole outfit? Some beat-up bracelets or a cuff or a leather thong or something? Or some hand-hammered art earrings that are the showpiece of the whole thing, or you know, whatever you feel like.

There. You're dressed!

I am forever on the lookout for good waistcoats. You have just reminded me that I need to get one of them dry cleaned. I want a tweed one and found a place in Scotland that does them made to order from whatever burr of tweed you choose, wantwantwant. In fact, should just order one now I have been paid.

Mens shirts are always trouble because if they fit me in the shoulder, then they have *gaping* problems at the bust (and often again at the hips, too.) So I tend not to wear button down shirts.

I need to learn more about getting clothes altered. I'm just so hopeless at all those girl things.

My faves androgynous style was/is '90s Beck, which always drove my mom nuts, me wanting to dress like that. In Seventeen the last page was 'dress like X celebrity' and they had one of Dress Like Beck circa '96, which was a good investment for me to show to my mom, SEE GIRLS CAN DO THIS TOO.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg8/scaled.php?server=8&filename=ohthat.jpg&res=landing

Five years ago maybe? It's too hot to dress like that here.
emil.y is very good at rocking the tie and blazer look

Buy nice Tshirts, not underwear ones but something nicer & heavier, in 2 or 3 neutrals (grey, black?) and put them with pinstriped vests, women's jeans because they have to fit, and your engineer boots. That plus a really intersting haircut and maybe professional hair color would be a whole outfit?

Thanks. You have just turned me into Thom Yorke on the King of Limbs tour. :-P

I want to fuck him, not be him!

(actually I'm not so sure about that, but let's just pretend.)

Abbs you are too damned adorable for this thread. And dressed like Beck is too, too cute.

Getting clothes altered isn't a girl thing!!! Men's suits and dress clothes are INVARIABLY custom-fitted, there's no way for them to be any good otherwise. And you don't need to know HOW to do it, that's the tailor's job. Tell you what, stop into a tailor and ask: if I bought some shirts and brought them to you, what would be the most important measurement that would need to fit to start with? And do what they say.

What a fashion thread. I'm a creep, and you're a loser. Hurrah!

x-post to Beckotts

However you are going to need bras that fit or nothing else will fit over them. So reach a detente with your bust for long enough do that.

Really love the dress shirt and pants look, I had to buy all these business casual clothes for work and I think career separates trousers look a lot better on me than jeans. If I could just wear that and stompy boots and a sweater every day I'd be happy.

My bras are all dying and poking me uncomfortably in awkward places. I don't want to have to go bra shopping again, I just did it 2 years ago. Bra shopping is a special kind of hell.

How on earth do I find a tailor anyway? Actually I think there might be one across the road from the office.

Bras shopping is ~~~the worst~~~

Bra shopping and first dates are the most hideous things in the history of the world. I have to do one this weekend, don't make me do the other!

These suggestions have been v v useful, though. I'm going to go and dye my hair now because 2 inch roots are never attractive.

Hey, you know what makes bra shopping a lot easier? Being willing to spend more money to go to a place where you just stand there and they fit you. Yes, you will have to let some bossy old lady (aren't they always bossy old ladies, where DO they find them) see you in your bra, but she does it for a living and you look just like everyone else she helps so no biggie. And she throws three bras at you and you're done for a year, and a year later you can just order the same thing again if they still fit.

I wouldn't even know where to go for that. It's not like I don't have money. I just don't ever buy bras from anywhere that isn't Marks & Sparks.

Mens shirts are always trouble because if they fit me in the shoulder, then they have *gaping* problems at the bust
Ok, here's a solution to the gaping bust problem: take your button-down shirt to the tailor and have them just sew it up. It is now a pull-over with decorative buttons.

There's no way it will go over my shoulders/back if it is sewn up! I guess I just need to buy bigger shirts. I have a couple of women's shirts that are like, UK size 22 or something, and though they flap in awkward places, they don't have gaping problems.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO GO, THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE IS FOR.

DON'T MAKE ME YELL AT YOU!

Honestly I like the idea of menswear but button-up shirts never fit me either so I've basically completely given up on them. On the rare occasion, I solve the gaping problem with double-sided dress tape--it's SUPER sticky and you can get a pack of like 50 pieces for $10 or something.

I used to be able to get away with those little gold safety pins. But even they pucker.

Don't sew it up all the way, leave room for your head.