no boys allowed in the room!!!!

* should probably just be "the internet" and not just "social media" ... you can probably trace it back to usenet era

I am a fan of many ilxbros but man, as a collective their feminism feels quite performative.

also sarahell otm

I am a fan of many ilxbros but man, as a collective their feminism feels quite performative.

― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, November 9, 2022 11:12 AM (thirty-five minutes ago)

yeah! ... I think I tend to just "ignore and avoid" because the conversations/arguments are mainly for each other / with each other ... with non-bros as potential audience, as opposed to, uh, equal participants? idk. I guess I admire their confidence in a way.

I forget where we (and/or ILX in general) were discussing this, but it's like there's a default identity in threads.

There is a "subject position" (sorry for academic) that it is assumed the majority holds in a thread, and it will vary from thread to thread (e.g. regional threads will assume that the poster/reader lives in that area or is "from" there, though some assume that way more intensively than others). If you don't have that "default identity," it is common for people just not to post. Those that do, again depending on the thread, will either be welcomed and/or deferred to, or shot down/dismissed. But, it's a risk on the part of the poster, right? Is it worth taking?

Sorry Roz.

not at all, i knew it was going to get some folks riled up and that I prob wasn’t going to able to respond adequately as I’m on a whole different time zone to the rest of ilx

thank you though, I really appreciated your posts

It’s not even that, it’s like, I don’t think I even knew your background and I immediately got where you were coming from because I read your fucking post. But, you know. I was just really annoyed reading all that. So much bloviating.

lol yeah this is why I generally don’t post on film threads

I just couldn’t ignore it today because people were saying careless things about a film with a very careless ending

bracing myself for the response to me saying its not chill for a band to write only violently misogynistic rape anthems on the metal thread, but i know it, having been posted by me, is more likely to just be ignored :)

i do remember the last time i brought this up being condescended to by jd for not understanding trauma or whatever

Hey!

I am not in that thread but yeah. I totally feel you. It is bad, right? It’s not just me?

it is bad

Ps on an entirely different note, I need to know, do you still like classic Tim Lincecum?

about 10 years ago i brought up the fact that folks didn't respond to the things i said in there, that then someone else would say the same things and get a response, and someone said it (my sentiment) "felt like high school"

YES i still live for The Franchise lol

Yeah. I know most of the replies are probably not gendered per se but fuck me if the tendency to bloviate and talk over people isn’t so very male.

It didn’t even happen to me and I’m still angry a load of American men queued up to tell Roz the racism in Tár was explainable through increasingly convoluted explanations.

xp ok I am into him like a million years late, I have a thread in baseball that is about me getting into baseball and is strongly likely to be relevant to your interests

PS did you know he attended the women’s march????

PPS
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11573497/D4rn4kA.gif

(Suggest we take this part of the convo to my thread? Or email? Idk!)

about 10 years ago i brought up the fact that folks didn't respond to the things i said in there, that then someone else would say the same things and get a response, and someone said it (my sentiment) "felt like high school"

i did not know he attended the women's march but i love that!!

i know what you mean with the responses not being specifically gendered...but also its like, the context is heavily gendered, we live in a society!!! lol. to not consider that makes your message fucked up. you cant opt out

It’s also Quite The Thing for people to be like, oh you complain too much, like

do you want things to get worse? Clearly you would prefer my silence

Idk idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lol y'all talking about my "homeboy" ... Tim L is like Steph Curry ... he not only plays/played for the Bay, but reps the values the area is known for.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Let’s just say I understand those of you who stopped bothering a lot more today!

"young pussy" ...

i remember people making fun of momus (+ occasionally actually criticizing him) for fetishizing asian women, but did ILX ever come at momus for being a rapist / "dating" a 14 year old child when he was in his 30s

ew.

The old thread where this is discussed has some incredibly eyebrow-rasing defending going on in it too.

So yeah I guess some ppl did? (JW in particular)

I don’t remember that thread!

gross.

I didnt either, I googled Momus dating 14 yr old and an old ILX thread is one of the first hits lol

I didn’t encounter much first-hand momus back in the day (was he mostly on ilm?), and definitely wasn’t aware of this but i dunno, very much in character maybe? Fucking ugh just NO

Is this the thread where it’s discussed?

Britain's youngest mother

oof that whole thread :/

had no idea about this either. and he married her when she was 17? fucking hell

Shazna said: "I was only 14 and I had a crush on a boy who was a fan of Nick's music.

"But the relationship never got off the ground and I wrote a letter to Nick telling him. It was a kind of agony aunt letter.

"He wrote a very nice letter back to me and said that we should meet some time and talk.

"Months later we met and got on really well."

Sounds like….. grooming. I’m never ever going to believe there’s any reason a mid-30s man would be friends with a 14yr old girl.

Jesus this is horrible. I agree that there is no valid reason for a grown adult to “”””befriend””””” a 14 year old. I watched the final portion of Surviving R Kelly a few days ago and have no tolerance for enablers. I didn’t before watching it either but it’s so clear people had to create the space for him to do the revolting things he did. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

I've actually thought about the lack of pushback on this a fair bit over the years, and it's definitely horrible. The narrative was that he married her to save her from forced marriage, and it was all very noble and honourable. It was all nicely packaged to not just be acceptable but to play into a white saviour complex. It's one of the many things that makes me question just how easy I find it to believe people when they confidently state that they have done nothing wrong - why did I, personally, not push back on this narrative harder? How often am I still accepting things that I should not, or making excuses for people who I should not be?

yah, 16 yrs ago i'm sure i'd've said stuff on that thread that would now sound horrifying as hell, and in the 90s? lord, teen me would have thought momus was a freaking hero & wld prob have tried to wrangle an underaged marriage for my own fool self. "woah how rebellious & romantic & glam & subversive! how do i shot matrimony w/ louche indie darling"

can't wait to look back in another 20-30 yrs and be aghast at all my current bad opinions (does that sound flippant? i mean it, actually, tho. i want to perpetually become a more kind & conscious cat)

i was always vaguely confused by the whole momus thing, but i remember thinking he sucked and was wildly offensive constantly when i encountered his posts. it was...bewildering how many otherwise smart and decent-seeming dudes on ilx had his back.

and i know what you mean, emil.y. particularly when i was first on ilx in my 20s there was so much ambient objectification and thoughtless sexism that confused me, and i was so ready to be like, but so many of these people are smart, so i must be missing something.

xp very much before my time but literally every time I read an old post in some old thread I’m like, seriously?

Yes — I remember trying to understand that thread that was about “girls on bikes in skirts with beers” or whatever it was. I remember thinking that in order to be attractive one must also be carefree & easygoing, which I was not bc I felt inflamed by the monolithic “girls”
I realize it’s not chill or cool to feel this but it always strikes me as informative at the very least when “girls” are invoked.

I can’t speak to that but I found it illuminating to look into that male antihero thread and find someone trying to hijack the discussion with “what about female antiheroes”.

That was also a fairly mild thread comparatively, light and breezy objectification

fuck being carefree & easygoing is how i break it down to an extent

I can’t speak to that but I found it illuminating to look into that male antihero thread and find someone trying to hijack the discussion with “what about female antiheroes”.

― Everybody's gonna get what they got coming (gyac)

not just trying but succeeding! i did try do my own thread hijacking but nobody bit, which is probably just as well because i feel like i phrased it really poorly and if someone did bite it'd just turn into a huge clusterfuck

i'm much happier with people saying "well, what about cersei lannister?"

there's this short story by casey plett (she writes stories about trans women) where the protagonist is going through her old stuff and sees a tucker max book she used to own, and that's just, like... a whole mood.

emil.y and cat otm - i was very young and thought some pretty dumb shit when I first started posting on ilx, and it wasn't until much later that I learned to push back or question certain assumptions. and even now there are times where I see things being said that feel... off but can't find the right way to phrase my discomfort.

but re the male antiheroes thread - i thought about posting there but i can't be bothered, such a boring discussion imo. there are so, so many female antiheroes on TV - Villanelle on Killing Eve, Cookie Lyon on Empire, Claire Underwood on House of Cards, heck even OG Gossip Girl's Blair Waldorf. And never mind Cersei - House of the Dragon is led by two women who arguably both fit the anti-heroine bill.

The only reason men struggle to identify them is because they don't actually give a shit. Also women-led "prestige dramas" so often get seen instead as "prestige soaps".

xps it was this post actually

m0stly clean (Slowsquatch)
Posted: 15 April 2023 at 19:10:48
Are there any despicable female antiheros?

And it’s like, literally had to see male filmbros shit up the Tár thread and behave disgracefully towards Roz of this thread not that long ago?

Besides that, the thread is not interesting per se except that that question is like, who is this for?

Anyway, Roz, Blair is an all time favourite of mine, the time she preemptively cuts Jenny off in the school corridor with “wasn’t me, wish it was!” is all time.

I think the thread is interesting… it’s kinda weird complaining about an ilx thread not being interesting when you aren’t obligated to read it?

I was going to post this in the No Way NYT thread but decided to post about this here because my "no way" response is mostly due to feminist stuff. This is the first paragraph. I got angry and stopped reading. I then thought, why is this so aggravating, and is my anger problematic? Is it coming from a place of privilege?

One afternoon in 2020, early in the pandemic, I met Syl’violet and Matthew for a virtual session. Young, idealistic, deeply in love, they were also prone to dramatic fights. In this session Syl’violet, a vivacious essayist and spoken-word poet, was trying to describe the ways she felt Matthew, a measured medical student, was trying to control her, in this case by trying to dissuade her from buying a slushy. He thought they should keep to a tight budget until after he became a doctor and achieved financial stability. Then she could have “all the slushies you want later.” Syl’violet found his reasoning maddening, especially since he seemed to imply she was reckless.

Number one, this is so fucking petty. I hear about arguments like this and I feel like yelling at both people to grow the fuck up. It's not like I'm affluent, but, if I were in her position, (and I have been on occasion), I would just politely say, "It's my money, this is what I want, and I'm getting it, and it will work out." Maybe it becomes a topic of light bickering in the future, but going to couples therapy and focusing on something like this? ... idgi

Number two, if it isn't her money then it pisses me off (in this day and age) that a woman is expecting a man to financially provide for her. (Except in the case where she is disabled or dealing with an infant.) Or ... maybe she isn't expecting him to provide, but she doesn't keep her own money under her own control. But still, this is a bad power dynamic. I see women who are otherwise radical feminists engaging in it ... the dependence on a male partner for income and the comingling of money in inequitable ways. I know I have personal baggage on this topic, and some of the anger is coming from that place.

Number three, the paragraph itself ... it is lowkey infantilizing the woman (or at least positioning her as childish) ... "vivacious" "wants a slushy" ... the article is supposedly about how recent feminism and racial equity movements have changed relationship dynamics, and the first paragraph is positioning the woman as childlike ... maybe not a good thing to start with? Unless, the article wants to argue that these things are "not good" ... which uh, ouch. Not that.