no boys allowed in the room!!!!

Hi, gyac!

i am absolutely less intimidated than i was ...13 years ago when i slowly started posting (??!?!?!?)
also now people tend to ignore me when they don't like what i have to say instead of attacking, which is nice

i am actually a lot more sensitive to verbal attacks (compared to physical) and i MUCH prefer to be ignored

L, I’m with everyone else - if you get married, do it how you want. You don’t even have to tell anyone- you could just go to the courthouse and do it.

Personally, I regret having a wedding. We did the courthouse thing first for immigration stuff, and I wish I’d known how special *that* would feel, and made it more of a thing for just me and my husband. We had a tiny wedding ceremony a year later and it was pretty lame for the most part.

I have friends who eloped to Vegas, other friends who eloped to Hawaii, and an old ilxor did a cool thing where they eloped and got really nice photos done in marfa (I think).

I think of it this way:
My wedding was pretty dumb but my 10 yr marriage has been nothing but awesome (LL so otm about choosing your family - I never felt like I had a real family till I met him). My BFF had a gorgeous destination wedding in Italy at a castle or something, it was crazy decadent and she had an amazing day. A few years later her and husband were cheating on each other and then divorced.

HMMMM. Maybe we can elope to India or something. He likes it there.

many xposts but: in orbit, does your upper back pain tend to be in your right shoulder blade? Do you get cripplingly painful, er, pains around your upper abdomen ever?
Just cos I had this (without ever realising it was focused around my right shoulder blade or attributing it to using a mouse all day with my right hand) and it was gallstones. my doctor was useless and it was women on another message borad who correctly diagnosed me

xxpost

I think a major benefit of marrying was having my employer give me less shit about taking 3 weeks off for a "honeymoon" in Sri Lanka. They grumbled less than if I'd said "hey I'm taking three weeks off to go to Sri Lanka by myself." Assholes.

My two cents is that I grew up with the whole "marriage is hard work!" thing. Which it was, when I was in the wrong marriage. Now that I am in the right marriage, it isn't any work at all. Honestly it is quite easy, and makes other things (like living expenses, housework, and legal shit) easier.

Huh! Yes maybe! Maybe both shoulder blades? I also scooter in the cold so I usually assume it's a handlebar position thing/smart phone/mouse use thing. And the abdominal pain is a given--I stopped eating a lot of things because of that but never got a diagnosis. I went to a GP years ago and she was dismissive and I never got a 2nd opinion = I am truly terrible at taking care of my health.

Maybe worth looking into the symptoms? Although they often say it follows eating fatty food which I never particularly noticed myself. You can get a scan for gallstones or as I had, 'sludge'.
My symptoms were: it felt like period pain tension in my upper back, usually right shoulder, nearly always at night. Drinking lots of water and peeing loads helped a bit. Then I started getting the colic 'attacks' which I think ilxor carl agatha described as feeling like 'someone murdering you around your upper body' - I thought I was having a heart attack, nothing could really relieve it although a warm bath helped, it just had to go on its own and then the RELIEF when it stops - perhaps 2-3 times a year. Apparently being female, fair, forty (and "fat", but they can get lost) are risk factors... (I know you are female and fair, that's all!)

Xp yes! I don’t really get the “marriage is hard work”. Mine has been easy af.

re marriage, I got married really young and I'm kind of glad because I wouldve really overthought everything if I'd done it as a proper adult. As it was the wedding was fun and the first one most of us/our friends had attended. We sort of thought we were being kind of unconventional which is lol because we're now super boring with kids, mortgage etc. But getting married was probably the major life change that affected our relationship the least, certainly less than buying a house or having kids or moving abroad. Nothing physically changes really so you could try and spend a week imagining you've gotten married and see how you feel?! (I say that because an acquaintance of mine got married then annulled right away because they 'hadn't really realised what being married would be like' which I don't get at all but apparently the guy's behaviour changed a fair bit).

xps yeah we have both always been bewildered at 'marriage is hard work'. Perhaps when you have conflicting logistical issues like having to be in one place for one person's dream job but another place for the other's? But that's not limited to married ppl.

so hey
Two women are killed each week by a current or former partner
I'm pretty mad about this

I feel like if I bring it up in the incel thread or any other thread where ppl are noodling about sidelined men or whatever, it's a bit 'whither Darfur'
but literally no-one seems to know or care about women being murdered all the time by men or the general level of domestic violence that ruins lives

(this is not re: the marriage discussion btw!)

There’s a big thing in New Zealand right now over this stuff - a 22 yr old British tourist was murdered by her tinder date so now it’s all “what should women be doing to prevent this” and a huge backlash from nz women who are like “do u have any idea how much stuff we ALREADY DO to protect ourselves?!?”

https://t.co/cdm5z3JQyV

as a trans woman who just began transitioning this year, I empathize deeply. one of the first things I did was start carrying pepper spray, and I am always deeply aware of how many strange men are nearby and how close they are. (the first time I got on an elevator with multiple men on it I nearly had a panic attack.) I feel somewhat lucky to not have to worry about intimate partner violence, but there are definitely times I feel, if not actually unsafe, then edgy about my safety in ways I never did prior to transitioning.

I’m in the UK right now and the NZ murder is all over the news here too. It’s terrible and I’ve been thinking about how vulnerable I feel all the time. We are taught to constantly be on alert and that at any time someone could attack us and whether or not we realize it we live our lives doing things to prevent that. I can’t eve walk the damn dog at night without looking over my shoulder and checking shadows. It’s scary and sad.

My mother was a controlling monster when I got married and I wound up having the wedding she wanted rather than the one I wanted so IO don’t tell yr mom and don’t worry too much about it. Do whatever the hell you want imo.

yeah you find yourself thinking 'should I be doing this after dark' then you realise it gets dark at 4pm wtf

3:30 today :( which reminds me I’m meant to be looking for one of those lamps for SAD.

I interpret the "relationships are hard work" thing as like, nobody likes to compromise and nobody likes to face their faults, and combining two people's domiciles, schedules, foibles, professions, and daily lives can't happen without both. My choice is just to not combine as many of those things so there are fewer points of conflict. For that and several other reasons I'm not planning to share a home. The End.

My relationship is less emotional strain than any relationship I've ever had before and contains 0% uncertainty and insecurity about my partner's level of commitment or happiness, which was always present in previous relationships. On the other hand my partner is in some ways not who I thought I would end up with, so there are compromises in what kinds of things I thought we would be able to share. Some of the things I thought I needed to have (shared quiet time, love of books and reading, subtle & sparkling "intellectual conversations," whatever that means to you) may never happen. Other things I didn't expect in a relationship are suddenly offered to me on a platter. So I guess accepting that trade-off is kind of a challenge to me--that this is not a placeholder or an "experiment" anymore after almost 5 years. (Jesus. How did that happen?)

Just caught up on this thread. fwiw, i do know a lot of married/long term couples who live apart. But it's primarily academics who can't find jobs near each other so they make do until such time they can live together. And usually they are so busy the time apart helps with staying focused. I would've loved to have lived with F the entire time (18 years now), but being countries apart sometimes was fine because we tended to make each other lazy and it gave us time to grow up on our own. Our marriage is not hard work. The marriage was basically paperwork (3 or 4 years ago?). We have been each others best friend forever. Well except for when we had our dog.

Now I am don't even want to look at that incel thread except to blow it up. Someone else (kinder) should post what you were going to post about women being killed. They obviously did not read the piece that inorbit posted.

nah I'm going to bed

Also, don't tim burton and helena bonham carter keep separate homes?

inorbit, plus your partner seems to know a lot about hardwood floors and this seems like A+++.
I also recognize gyac's name. Post more!

The director of a non-profit I worked for and her husband kept separate homes and said it was the best decision they ever made.

I think it’s super important to know what relationship “style” works for you and be ok with it, don’t worry if it’s not conventional. My husb and I live in each other’s pockets bc that’s what we both like, but I don’t think it’s weird that other ppls relationships function differently to mine. You gotta do what works for you.

Speaking of unconventional...
So I’m friends with this couple who’ve been together 10 yrs or so but we sort of lost contact about 4 yrs ago and only recently reconnected.
They bought a house about a year ago.. a few months after they split up bc she wants kids and he doesn’t. They couldn’t afford to live alone separately but they could afford to buy a house. So they did. After they split.
She was planning to use a sperm donor but wasn’t at all psyched so her ex offered to do it... but will not be a father to the child. That will be living in the same house as him. It is v v unusual.

xpost

My thoughts on the incel thread: something about it just rubs me the wrong way. It got me reflecting on the fact that ilx feels very more dude than it did in years past. It's always been pretty dude, but I really feel that women's participation has dropped off precipitously. And what really gets my goat is that dudes don't seem to find this particularly bothersome. Like, no skin off their penises or whatever. Maybe they overall prefer a dude-centric ilx. Like, they can be outraged feminist allies but don't bother thinking about why and how so few female posters are around compared to five years ago or whatever.

Ilx has been a part of my life for a while, and I really feel a loss here. Perhaps in a year that didn't feature Trump, Kavanaugh, and other awfulness it wouldn't bother me so much. But it does and I'm pissed. On a board full of dude feminists, the feminism is directed *outside* of ilx, and shit all to do with our own little piece of the internet. Because it doesn't seem to bother ilxdudes, and I like a lot of these dudes and am bummed that their ilxlives seem none the worse for absence of fifty one percent of the fucking sky ha.

xpost OK that is pretty weird. Although I had a friend that did marry her friend (who was her ex bf of 3 years) so he could get a green card. They never did get back together or anything and totally led separate lives. Finally got a divorce after 10 years.

inorbit he seems like a great guy. Taxes get harder but other administrative stuff is easier. If things work for you guys, it works. F and I are always 2 feet away from each other but if one of us has to go away it only takes a day to get into our other lives routines. And don't worry about your family. I got some grief about it but I would've been miserable otherwise, and i felt way too old for that shit. I was already freaking out about just having to make a dinner reservation for 16 people and making sure all people would get there. There was no way I could've dealt with an actual wedding.

literally no-one seems to know or care about women being murdered all the time by men or the general level of domestic violence that ruins lives

i think about this a lot. esp when that doctor was murdered in front of a chicago hospital where she worked by a man she had recently broken up with. i heard and saw more than a few news outlets report it began as "a domestic dispute" and no -- it did not. she broke up with him and he couldn't deal so he murdered her. he had been booted from the fire academy for (literally) "misogyny" and yet someone still sold him a gun legally. like...what the fucking fuck. no.

i don't feel like recounting my experiences with being attacked but most recently i was harassed by a student last semester. i am purposely not sharing the details of what he did because that doesn't matter. what matters is that it affected me in a number of adverse ways (which i also won't detail because I am a private person) and my other students picked up on it and would wait with me after class every single week until he left. i reported it and we resolved the issue. i was not physically attacked in any way. did it take a toll on me? fuck yeah it did. fuck that shit.

There are so often stories in the news here (aus) about a woman being found dead, and every time I say to myself "I bet the partner did it" and EVERY TIME I am right. Every fucking time.

I mean it feels like it is higher than the road toll at the moment. Australian men have some real fucked up anger issues. A lot of problems with alcohol in this country. And ice.

quincie, it also rubs me the wrong way because it's the exact same discussion from however long ago and seemingly despite this shit being in the news every single day, they are still like ..nah, why in the world are some people uncomfortable with groups of men??? It was so trumpian. I had a serious gap in ilx posting where I was seeing people in real life more and just forgot about ilx but I don't remember this feeling of disappointment in the guys here.

I have almost posted this several times on that incel thread about it but didn't because I know how inflammatory it would be but "I really don't give a shit if a guy is sad and jobless and he doesn't want to leave his house because no woman wants to fuck him. Just don't kill or assault anyone."

I’m on my phone and feel like an idiot but I can’t fond this thread. Which is it?

It's the maleness and masculinity thread.

i 100% sure do not need to dissect their poisoned worldview. no thank you. i really do think they need some intense and fundamental reprogramming. that's my inflammatory opinion.

and back to the harassment situation -- you know why it doesn't matter what he did? i should be given the benefit of the doubt about what happened to me. i am a reliable narrator. i should not be expected much less required to relive the experience just so some jackhole knows i was sufficiently harassed to warrant disciplinary action. just believe me. that is what i have always wanted and seems to be in short supply in the world at large. the demand for "evidence" of harm makes me so angry that i can't see tbh. (i had evidence btw) see also: kavanaugh shit, which sent me all the way over the edge :(

Kavanaugh has been worse for me than the 2016 election. I have discovered depths of anger that frankly surprised me. There were a few days there where I really think I could literally have ripped eyeballs out of someone's head. I thought myself a pretty nonviolent person, but I *fantasized* about it.

xpost The evidence is you, but I know it doesn't work that way when it's a woman.

Just now had a guy, the second this week, stop by the house and ask if my husband was home. Because the guy was selling firewood. Which *I* purchase every year. S didn't know that a cord was a unit of measurement. But apparently he is more capable of business transactions than I, the person standing in front of you right now. fuuuuuuuuck yooooooou

also "is your husband home" is a fucking creepy question!!!!!

Maybe the firewood had a hole to stick a dick in, did you ever think about that? I am so sick of these stupid, stupid men. But then again my spouse is pretty great, and even though I get pretty evil sometimes he always thinks I am great.

If anyone is sad by the weather in the US they can come visit me in Chile right now. It stays bright out until 9pm.

i am unable to control myself and go completely off the rails when i am confronted with men (performing a home-related service) inside my house who won't listen to me
have had a number of bad experiences with that
hence my malfunctioning nervous system obvs :(
god -- CBF and the second front door, i still think about that from time to time

actually the malfunctions are not caused by the incidents -- they are inflamed, which causes days of aggravation and recovery
fuck that shit

la lechera, ,I am firmly against people needing to see excessive pain of women or needing to know the assaultive details to consider it serious enough. No. The entire world needs to be reprogrammed.

indeed :(

i'm single and live alone, and sometimes when I go outside to have a cigarette, some man I don't recognize will walk by, and sometimes I will flinch. Then there are the occasional attempts at flirtation which are usually not too creepy, but there are a handful of guys that every time they walk by when I'm outside they will say something ... and I have this client, who's a guy, who will come over and I will work with, and sometimes I wish the awkward flirters would walk by when I am outside having a cig with the male client so I can give the impression that I have a boyfriend or am married and they might leave me alone ... also feel shitty about having that thought because I feel like I'm finally getting over the "if I'm not in a relationship, I am a failure" thing.

Have you ever tried an aggressive eyeroll when someone tries to awkwardly, repetitively flirt. If it's bothering me, I don't care if they just think I am a bitch. But of course you need to do the calculus. sometimes when my spouse hugs me from behind or grabs me when I am focused on something else, i totally flinch or knock his arm away and i've never had anything traumatic happen to me but of course it's just the history of having hands on you that you don't want and being alert to defend yourself.

Being alone is better than being with someone who sucks. A lot of men are pretty lacking in being adequate partners. Having your time to be alone is freedom (this is totally take from that Jeong Kwan Chef Table episode).

Trayce, it's pretty much always the partner (or ex partner). It happens so much it becomes almost mundane. I expect it's the same if you're a POC and experience varying levels of racism *all the time* - it's there, it's outrageous, everyone's used to it so needs to find something new to make a Twitterstorm about

the levels of entitlement people must just be walking around with.

New people! *waves at gyac* *waves at Eliza D* welcome to us!

On the marriage thing, in orbit, some EU countries are doing the thing of extending Civil Partnership to Teh Straights? That might be something to look into, if your partner's country does this? I am not a fan of Marriage or even Gay Marriage (for many complicated reasons). But the whole idea of Civil Partnership being, "This means what *we* think it should mean, not what 5000 years of Patriarchy says it should mean" - might be a way to just do the thing without, you know, Doing The Thing?

I don't even want to touch on the incel thing, or the rolling maleness / masculinity thread. (Which usually means I'm going to fire off 7000 words, but not today.) But just to say... I admire women and/or non-boys who can continue wading into those threads and having the arguments and saying the things that need to be said. But there *IS* a wall of frustration. And the penalties that one must pay, as a non-boy, for pointing out "ILX males are very quick to performatively point fingers at persons outside ILX; while steadfastly refusing to address their own biases" eventually become too high.

(I have found amazing other places and other people, with whom I can discuss AFAB masculinity, and trans-ness and non-binary-ness... and it's been life-alteringly good.)

But there's a lot of online conversations I have found I have just had to mute or switch off, not to be a screaming mass of anger, all the time - with hugely deleterious effects on both my psychological health and eventually my physical health. (It's not just getting other people to take your pain seriously - sometimes it's getting *yourself* to take your own pain seriously, when others keep telling you it doesn't matter.) It's too high a price to pay, living in that state all the time. Like, there are so many cognitive *taxes* that non-cis-men have to pay, that cis-men are blissfully unaware of. On one level, psychologically, it's like, "you're allowed to mute those conversations if that's what you need to survive" but the end result is, certain voices become louder and louder, and other voices... go on mute.

Just in case people didn't see the story, because I think various other blogs have been writing off of it as well but the Washington Post had a lead on this:

The Washington Post found that nearly half of the women who were murdered during the past decade were, like Parnell and Cisneros, killed by a current or former intimate partner. In a close analysis of five cities, about a third of the male killers were known to be a potential threat ahead of the attack.