no boys allowed in the room!!!!

i think that working with kids and, like you said, catching myself acting like her or saying things she used to say to me around them and wanting to nip that in the bud ASAP is what caused me to turn down this road in the first place

i just keep remembering all these terrible things that i havent thought about in so long

for ex:

when i was 18 i moved in with some shitty people just to get away from mom, one of whom was an extremely misogynistic alcoholic (who later sexually assaulted me). i felt like - KNEW! - i couldn't move out. i believed i was literally incapable of doing normal, everyday things on my own, a self-concept impressed on me by my mom. after leaving that living situation, i was unable to find anywhere to live due to my former roommate's breaking windows (and therefore leases - and of course my name was on the lease). i was homeless, and called my mom. she drove to my work and screamed at me for having nowhere to go

cool parenting

you're not the sum of yr mom's bad example. you are the you you are now in spite of her, and every discovery you make now is a step further away from that shadow.

you are creating yourself. doesn't matter that you just started. the point is starting <3

those kids are probably going to be more influential to you now than yr mom which is ironic BUT also awesome. and, idk, to me that is a great example of how you can never pick who is going to teach you the most about yrself

and there's no right age where ppl ~know~ these supposed truths. any age is a good age, fuck yeah 35! etc

i've wrestled with a lot of shit re my mom. it sucks but once you get out of the "why did it take so long" you will have lisa frank rainbows of realizations that are worth all of this rn <3

Roxy I'm on a bus so this is gonna be disjointed.

Trauma doesn't happen on a pre-planned predictable timescale! And as a result, the processing and realisations that lead to healing and recovery don't happen on a timescale either! They happen when you're ready for them. And they often happen only after you have got to a distance of relative safety away from the trauma to be *able* to process it and heal from it. You know how people in the immediate aftermath of an accident are able to perform superhuman stunts of strength and endurance to get out of the burning car, but it's only once they get to safety, then the pain kicks in, and they pass out from shock? Dealing with psychological trauma is like that, but in slow motion. It takes years and sometimes even decades until you get to a place where you can process what's happened to you.

The important thing is not *when* you come to this realisation, but the fact that you've done it at all. Some people never get there. You are there now, and you're trying to do something about it. Congratulate and take some kind of pride in yourself for getting that far.

I mean, you wanna talk about being angry (at oneself, or others) for not developing on schedule? Dude, I am dealing at the age of 45 with a diagnosis (well a re-diagnosis of a misdiagnosis) of a condition that is normally recognised and diagnosed in CHILDHOOD. How's that for behind schedule? Would I really like those wasted years of hammering at things the wrong way back to do-over with new knowledge? Of course I would.

But that's not how it works. We are where we are now, and we work with the knowledge that we have now.

I know I sound like a shitty platitude (or my therapist) but the thing to work on being kind to yourself and forgiving yourself? After that dealing with the others is a doddle by comparison?

true facts about trauma ^^

i just keep remembering all these terrible things that i havent thought about in so long

same, and similarly these deeply buried feelings (of a different, non-parental nature) started to erupt right around the same time i was starting something new that was challenging to me in a good way. i was afraid of my old feelings fucking it up, like really worried. i feel more confident now that i have stared it down and kept going.
i'm gonna leave it at that, but so far so good, i know the feeling, and <3 to you

I've been offered what I think of as the Carl Agatha Special*: an elective hysterectomy! I'm going for a second opinion next week, though.

I'd keep the ovaries, which are fine, so no surgical menopause. I asked about my cervix. "Up to you," said the surgeon. WTF, you are the dude who went to medical school, maybe you should weigh in here? I'm all for patient choice, but you gotta at least give me some pros/cons to work with! He kinda shrugged and said "studies indicate that it really doesn't matter." What does he prefer? "I usually take it out, but again, it's up to you."

Well ffs, let's just flip a coin, then?

*not actually available to CA. Sorry, carl :(

wow that's exciting for you!
i would think removing the cervix might affect sexual response?
and wtf that he didn't think to mention that?

i feel a need for this thread today thank you for bumping
i'm so tired that i think my brain is actually drained of blood

me too. i am feeling kinda sads and tired etc

(a mother who does not care about your feelings at all in any way, the opposite of supportive in a crisis, who teaches you not to trust any achievement of your own because it's probably a trick, who invents complex imaginary scenarios and convinces you they are real, who is hypercritical and convinces you that this is just how everyone else in life is gonna view you, and most of all you are deeply weird and will never understand normal people, so just try to hide as much as possible, human relationships are just elaborate interpersonal performances). the impacts it has had on the way that i am, and the way that my family and relationships are. it is such hard work undoing it, and i can't even seem to approach thinking about being forgiving about it yet.

Ooof. Respect, roxy, for grappling with this in such a clear-sighted way. We have so many kids at this school who are having emotional crises literally every day and we keep trying to get them new levels of mentoring, counseling, outside services, etc to try to build their emotional growth before it becomes a discipline/safety issue that the school has to be punitive about. Just today we were talking about one student and I specifically thought, "She needs a mother. Like an ideal mother. She needs a champion whose love never wanes" and I felt for her SO BAD. We can't give her that, so far, but it set me thinking about that kind of love so your description rang that bell hard.

I hope you can both have some good R&R this weekend!

Dude said cervix removal doesn't affect sexual response. I'll try to quote him exactly: "the cervix, it's only real function is as a door to the uterus. No uterus, no need for door."

I dunno I guess if it comes out I will definitely never have cervical cancer!

oops, sorry for xpost

like he explicitly said it doesn't affect sexual response or he avoided the question with the answer about the door? i remember reading something about it and have feared cervical cancer for that reason specifically (among the obvious others like dying obvs)
i'd be glad to know it's not true but i'm not convinced by that answer!

i hear the work-affecting-the-feelings bell
know that one well

Congratulations!!! I've never considered the cervix issue. I can't decide whether it would freak me out more to have the top of my vag be closed off, like a Ken doll crotch vagina, or have a cervix with nothing behind it but the rest of my insides.

Like this

https://citymovement.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/screen-shot-2013-02-13-at-9-21-08-pm.png?w=470

or this

https://cdn.wittyfeed.com/4647/d1e3a4xokb7p5wf8jk6d.jpeg

He specifically said that studies indicated no impact on sexual function. The door was an add-on comment, albeit an awkward one.

xpost hahahah I'm just gonna try to stop thinking of doors for a while!

Its funny, when he said something about "not having periods anymore," I'm like OH RIGHT!!! My main issue is what he referred to as "bulking" symptoms (puffed out abdomen, feeling of heaviness, aching) and not so much awful bleeding (though that piece could be better), but all of a sudden I was struck by the idea of life with ZERO periods for ever and ever amen!

i know we can count on kate78 to tell us the truth
it is freaking me out to think about the ken doll

i mean not a lot but yknow

I got a very ken doll vibe from Martin O'Malley in this week's dem primary debates. I picture him with a ken doll crotch.

lol
he seems like an actor playing president on teevee

what's the standard recovery time for a hysterectomy?

Yeah, I don't see why the cervix would have anything to do with sexual response tbh. That woudldn't have occurred to me to worry about.

additionally, and what i most want to talk about here, beating myself up for being 35 and just now understanding and working on all this stuff. i've always felt 10 years behind on being "normal"; no change

i identify with this so hard. I'm just a little older than you are dealing with similar things. I'm finally, just now, realizing the damage that my mother did to me. I've been in pretty intense therapy for almost two years now and I'm just starting to get it. My therapist and I are pretty sure that my mom has Narcissistic Personality Disorder but it's sort of the opposite to what Justine described - she was a pretty good parent when I was a kid but that all changed when I was about 17 and since then she's been either drunk and/or depressed but most often both. The biggest effect this has had on me is similar to what you describe in that her parenting has made me think that I'm not a capable adult and I feel way behind my peers in a lot of ways. Anyway, it's a process and I'm really just starting to heal. The fact that I'm only doing this now does make me feel really bad sometimes but when I do feel bad I try to remember that at least I'm dealing with it and trying to grow and that's something that some people never even get around to? Idk - it's really hard and I get angry about it a lot tbh.

(Sometimes it feels like I've paid and continue to pay a pretty hefty price - all the numerous fucking issues and complexes I've walked around with my entire life - for all this and she's just oblivious or chooses to be oblivious. Tbh she never should have parented imo.

Anyway I went off there but just wanted to say that I get it R and try not to be too hard on yourself. I think it's pretty awesome that you're confronting this stuff and dealing with it at all no matter what age.

i know we can count on kate78 to tell us the truth
it is freaking me out to think about the ken doll

gosh, I haven't logged on in weeks, but it was almost as if I could sense my name being invoked.

I don't know a ton about suprecervical hysterectomies, but I know a lot of it depends on the procedure used to get it out (abdominal or laparoscopic or vaginal). Vaginal, I believe, is the preferred method, but you can't spare the cervix with that method.

Anyway, I'd probably take it out as long as they're in there.

Yeah fuck it. Take it all. What else can they get out while they're at it? Gallbladder? Appendix? Fuck it.

I lost ten pounds having superfluous and vestigial organs removed. Ask me how!

thank you! i appreciate your candor, expertise, and sharp personal radar, kate78 :)

Hugs and kudos to roxy!!

Re: procedure/recovery. Surgeon #1 would do lap and possibly da Vinci robot (LOL, robot hysterectomy!), OUTPATIENT which damn that is huge to me to be back home same day; back to work in 2 weeks (but maybe just a couple of days until up to doing some work from home). Up and about early and often is the rule. Definately no your mother's (or, in my case, grandmother's) hysterectomy with its 6-8 week down time!

Lechera and Carl: off topic but I'll be in your city and will have a few hours free on Sunday afternoon if yous wanna grab a drink? Gotta be back on the Blue Line around 6.

maybe? this week has been hellish and i need a sensory deprivation chamber before even thinking about grading midterms but send me an email and we can exchange contact info!!

email sent!

Aw, Roxy. I feel you. Had a lot of same realizations working with kiddos. Had to get back on all kinds of mental health meds I'd convinced myself I didn't need. Had to get a lot of therapy. Three years later kinds doing better. Took over 20 years of constantly beefing with my parents, talking with siblings now that we're full-grown, to realize they were just doing their best even though their best was not always very good for me. Godspeed and if you even need to chat, hit me up.

the past is like a big whack-a-mole that keeps popping up in the present no matter how much you think you'be beaten it down, and you can never predict when or where
that's what I've learned in life

troothboms

sometimes as you get older you learn that you dont have to whack the moles whenever they pop up, you can just go "oh hey that thing that happened" and keep on truckin

Lechera and Carl: off topic but I'll be in your city and will have a few hours free on Sunday afternoon if yous wanna grab a drink? Gotta be back on the Blue Line around 6.

I'm scheduled to attend a local park kid Halloween party adorablenessfest from 2-4 but also email me (or copy me when you email LL) because it would be lovely to see you if I can.

thank you all for all this wonderful support around my mom issues, yall. i seriously appreciate it.

<3

i think that, sadly, too many women didn't make it out of their childhoods (or sometimes even adulthoods) unscathed by the way their mothers treated them.

The first part of growing up (actually growing up, becoming a functional human adult; rather than just ageing out of your child body) is recognising the fucked up patterns caused by faulty rearing, and trying to alter them, to make yourself a better and more decent human being.

But I think part of that adult growing up process involves understanding that your parents (and put the finger for faulty upbringing on all parents, not just mothers) were human beings. Maybe deeply flawed human beings. But human beings dealing the best they could with the hands that were dealt them. And not just that they were flawed human beings, but they were raising girls within deeply fucked up power structures. I'm guessing from ILX demographics that most of us were born in the 70s or 80s, which means our mothers grew up in the 60s and 70s. Dealing with sexism, external or internalised during that particular historical era, how fucked up things were. And especially those mothers who were dealing with mental health issues, diagnosed or undiagnosed or utterly misdiagnosed - including mine I might add! - stigma is bad today, even with all the information and psychiatric treatment, but y'know, trying to cope with that with absolutely zero support structure in place.

I'm not giving a "get out of a jail free card" for bad parenting. But understanding that deeply flawed people, doing an incredibly difficult job under structures we now understand to be totally fucked... that does not produce the best results. I think it's a marvel sometimes that anyone gets to adulthood unscathed. IDGAF about forgiveness; I think it's overrated. But I think Understanding, and that sense of "they did the best they could with what was available to them" goes a long way towards letting go of anger and moving forward into better behaviour.

otm

It's official: my uterus (and its buddy cervix, because why not) are being evicted from the premises on November 12.

Gory details can follow if anyone is interested.

should we throw a "bye uterus etc" party y/n

I sure as hell plan to!

Only one more period (if that) EVAH for me, holy shit.

and then throw all your tampons into a kiddie pool

God I can't even imagine, bon voyage uterus!!

I'm totally going to ask for pictures of the uterus and fibroids laid out on a tray!

Hey! (hey!) Uterus! (uterus!) get off of my cloud...

I'm so sorry. Good luck with the operation.

I'm totally down with uterus lyrics! Thanks for the good wishes.

This time last year I was being worked up as a potential kidney donor, which turns out to have been good mental preparation. I seem destined to lose an organ some way or another.

Q, all the best with this! Is the Da Vinci robot a go?

quincie <3 thinking of you!

roxy & ENBB, i have been going through exactly this myself in the past couple of years, the reprocessing, also post-age-35 and after my friends started having kids. gradually came to understand that my mother is abusive and my father is an alcoholic (functioning, but nevertheless). i grew up in a terrible home environment with a lot of yelling, a lot of stress and chaos, where i wasn't really allowed to have a normal range of emotions, i mostly learned that I had to keep to myself and not draw too much attention and pretend that things were ok, to get by. i didn't grasp until recently how damaging it was. it's not for lack of trying but i wasn't diagnosed properly until i went to someone who specializes in ptsd/trauma, so for many years i thought i was the problem

once my friends started having kids i started to think, wait, i could never, ever imagine any of them *ever* yelling hateful things at their children or hitting them. i could never imagine any of them making it their priority to hang out in a bar just about every night and being emotionally absent in all the ways that go along with that. i also feel pretty bad at times about being behind my friends/peers on this or that major life milestone, but on the other hand.. if i hadn't been stubborn enough to go away to college and get out of that town, i'd probably have wound up married to an abusive drunk and stuck in a dead end job and thinking i didn't deserve anything else. i really went through a lot & things are slowly getting better but it certainly has taken me a lot of time and money and a good therapist.

i do not think my parents did the best they could. i can't change it now, but.. imo the bar should be set higher than that, and their behavior is the problem. it seems that in order to really move on, i have to keep reminding myself of that and not diminish/hide the past or go along with family pressure to pretend everything's fine.

daria-g, so good to see you back 'round these parts! Let's do it in person soon--I'll e-mail you :)

I found gobs of fault in my parent while I an adolescent, but I can now look back and see how lucky I was to have very good and decent people--people who placed family and being good spouses/parents above all else--as my folks. It wasn't perfect, but it was very supportive and real and man, I sure did get lucky. I think about what Roxy, ENBB, daria, VG, and others here had to contend with IN ADDITION to growing up as girls/women in this world. . . ugh. That's all I can think of to say. Ugh.