no boys allowed in the room!!!!

lol I say those things. Clear case of laurelsplaining. Which might go a ways toward explaining why I don't notice men doing it to me.

i'm unfortunately acutely aware of condescending language
has made for lots of discomfort throughout the years

totally!

i was just trying to think, if a woman says these things to me, how do i feel? but i can't remember it ever happening tbh

it happens all the time!

to me at least

so weird. women never talk to me like this! not even on the internet. lol

i always figured that it's because people are not intimidated by me -- irl i am physically small but even on the internet it's not like i have a big personality.

im sure that has something to do with it! i am tall and p obnoxious in person and on the net tbh

Hmm. Condescension is one of those things, like, humour, that lives in this vast grey area. Where punching up is a hugely valid and important tool! (so I'm never going to condemn people like in orbit who use it in that way!) But unfortunately, still the vast majority of uses and users involve punching down.

ive been making a conscious effort to call out every single condescending iota of a thing a man does to me for the past week or so and it has been EXHAUSTING

Well, there's the rub. It is exhausting, it is endless, it wears you down, and I'm not sure how much change it effects. (Have you read Sara Ahmed on The Feminist Killjoy?)

On the other hand, reading this guy makes me giggle-snort:

http://blogdailyherald.com/2014/10/06/interview-guyinyourmfa/

It just nails a certain form of male doucheyness so perfectly.

Brown didn't have much of an MFA program when I went there

i love her!

i cant read that link at work but i will peep it later.

i know it may not actually do anything most of the time - but i think it has made quite a few dudes realize "oh wow im not immune," and ive gotten a few apologies. and people are acting afraid of me which is nice. (jk) also im not feeling complicit in my own dehumanization!

but also i am so tired

I have no idea what the American MFA scene is like. I've just met that guy over and over again in bars and bedrooms on every side of the Atlantic.

(The twitter is probably better than the interview, but it had more concentrated doucheyness)

x-post to sarahel

Well, I'm glad if it is helping! Even in tiny doses.

hahah no that guy is familiar! I feel like I encounter him in more nuanced, subtle versions, maybe somewhat self-aware of him being _that guy_ but the essence remains.

I just thought it was funny that guy was a student at my alma mater.

But Sara Ahmed really is the best! When I'm feeling really terrible, and like I'm crazy for caring about this stuff, I go and read her and I just go "OTM, OTM, OTM!" and it makes me feel not-crazy again.

(I came to her in the most roundabout fashion. I was kinda swapping book recommendations with a friend, and I told him to read a book I loved and he told me to read Zizek and I was like "Zizek sucks" and he was all "No, he's great, trust me" and reminded me that he was right about Interpol, so I thought I'd try Zizek again. And it was RUBBITCH. But there was this whole chapter where he was arguing with one of Ahmed's papers. And Halfway through it, I was like, "fuck this, you're wrong and she's right, I'm giving up on this book, I'm gonna go see what I can find on Ahmed." And found her blog and her twitter and she's amazing and great. And I still think Zizek is unreadable codswollop, but he lead me to this amazing lady.)

i cant fucking stand zizek!!

Zizek is just so ~beloved~ by a certain kind of dude. And I just do. not. get. it. Plus, he is the worst of the purposeful obfuscators going.

I only saw Zizek's critical commentary on the Children of Men DVD and I felt like he was being overly didactic, oversimplifying things that are more nuanced, and I've ignored him since. Not trying to be self-righteous, more like lazy tbh

i feel that - "so ~beloved~ by a certain kind of dude"

way too many of those dudes near me

That's it, Sarahel. He oversimplifies nuanced concepts, but at the same time he overcomplicates with obfuscating language.

In the immortal words of The Gossip: He's not smart; he just knows big words.

today i found out that i have short?shallow?small? uterus

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081023004830/uncyclopedia/images/7/7c/Themoreyouknow.jpg

ytth is now referring to it as my "cutie utie"

hahaha

I had my first mammogram this week. Also had my fibroids and ovaries checked out by ultrasound. All good. Well I don't know about the mammogram results yet.

Also I get to collect 24 hours of pee on Sunday. I'm to keep the jug in the fridge. Do not drink from the orange jug in my fridge!

Bah I had to do the 24 hour pee thing twice when I was pregnant. Stupid pee hat.

lol @ mfa guy

can i just say that i hate whiskey. i'm sure some of you like it which is totally cool. but i personally think it's pretty gross. the smell of it makes me want to vomit. dudes discussing at length various kinds of whiskey, the origins and ages and the differences between them, the different local bars that serve expensive types of it, the proper way to drink it, the kinds of whiskey they have been drinking at places you've never visited, etc. BORING AS HELL I COULDN'T CARE LESS

same thing for craft beer tbh, i really do like the taste of a nice glass of beer but i just don't think there's anything interesting to say about it

dudes mansplaining to me the correct way to drink alcohol -> i'm humoring you but actually please go away

i like whiskey ok but it's not my favorite however i totally agree re dudes endlessly yammering on about it. they don't even like it that much. it's just the sounding like they know about things that they really like.

Aaaawww, bcz I fucken love whisky and I would be the world's biggest whisky bore if I could afford to buy all the single malt scotches from far-flung peaty island bogs!

But I can certainly understand how that kind of specialised knowledge and interest would be boring as fuck to anyone who is not interested in the conspicuous consumption display of acquired knowledge in that way. (Or the performance of ethnicity and culture with which I was raised to revere Our National Drink.)

I do, however, want to protest the gendering of the subject, because the biggest whisky bore (and I say that affectionately, because I would go round their house and the two of us would compare various peaty goodness while their partner went "yuck, yuck, stinky whisky, you smell like a peat bog") I have known was a lady. She wanted to found a woman only whisky tasting club so was after me to join - but I guess that was because of the awfulness of male whisky bores so I think it's maleness that is the problem, not the whisky drinking or arcane knowledge thereof.

But hot damn, now I want whisky, especially now it's getting cold and the nights are drawing in, and I have none because I am poor.

I kind of want to protest the gendering of all of these subjects because so much shitty behavior falls under people being assholes independent of his/her gender

Well, there's general shittiness, and then there's shittiness attached to societal privilege, and that's where I do gender things.

And we could talk a lot around the gendering of alcohol consumption and its acceptability which is a real thing, at least in the society in which I live.

But, y'know, I don't really want to get into that on a Saturday night.

for me it's more like it feels like this thread is a place where no one is going to attack is all. i do know several ladies who are very knowledgeable/picky about whiskey but they are cool with me not liking it! i was reacting to the @guyinyourmfa parody thing & his fixation with it and the shorthand of 'girls who drink whiskey --> special, Not Like Other Girls' which i seem to run into a lot in pop culture

Oh god, I'm so sorry if you thought I was attacking you, Daria, that was in no way my intention!

No, I totally get what you're saying, and I kind of laughed-eyerolled-snorted at guy in yr MFA's obsession with what it signified ... but it felt like it was one of those gendered-landgrab things of trying to male-gender things which are not only Not Gendered, but ... you're right. Adding that icky "Not Like Other Girls" specification to it. When y'know, he's right. I'm "Not Like Other Girls (TM)" but that's because I'm a 200 lb Butch who would scare the shit out of dude, *NOT* because I think Other Girls are icky or bad or contemptuous, like he clearly does.

And there are so many signifiers for "Whisky", like he is very clearly going for this American Writer Hard-Ass Bukowski cliche or whatever, which is a trope in American culture, I know. But it's just specifically annoying because "Whisky" as a signifier is tied up with something quite different (and probably just as fictional and romanticised) but it's still tied up with family and specifically my father and my grandmother. And I feel this outraged "How Dare You" of him or ~dudes he is based on~ making a gendered landgrab for a cultural thing. It's complicated.

no no i didn't think that! i wasn't being sarcastic, no worries

guys I went to a v fun art installation yesterday
it was called 'you who are getting obliterated in the dancing swarm of fireflies' by yayoi kusama

it is completely dark a room with mirrored walls and floors, and hanging led light strings that change color and position

it was like being in a forever field of floating light and nothing!

http://iguessiwriteforfree.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/kusama_fireflies-w500h333.jpg

the artist seems v cool

a lady working aid kusama is bipolar and her art has a lot of repetition

she opened the book to show me an example and turned at first to this print (nsfw)

"why do I open to that page every time?"

but we had this v cool posi conversation about art as an outlet for mental health

then this guy came in and started mansplaining to her and I gave her the rolleye behind his back and she laughed

Lex and I went to one of her installations a few years ago! (Infinity Rooms, which is very similar to the one you posted.) She is the best! And yes, a very interesting story to her.

i got a lenticular postcard of it but it doesn't really recapture it
love lenticular stuff tho

my colleague who's getting married soon is a fan of yayoi kusama and I was trying to think of a cool present for her! But haven't yet.

consider getting her a boat covered in cloth penises

she already has one

Oh, that's a cool direction her work is going. I am most familiar with her earlier work that is similar with the dots and large scale patterns but is more "domestic" looking -- and I was always ambivalent about it because of how stereotypically feminine it was.

though I think a significant amount of it was also how many imitators she has/had and how that style became a shorthand for communicating certain "ideas" and "identity issues"

whats the best reaction to someone mansplaining...laughing?

depends on who it is imo

Depends on whether it's someone you have to maintain a friendship / working relationship with afterwards.

If not, fix them with an utterly disbelieving stare, go "for real? no way?" a couple of times in a doubting tone before escalating to something like "you are actually trying to tell me this basic, dumb-ass shit?" in a how ignorant are you? tone of voice.

If it's someone I do want to stay friends with, I usually touch them softly on the arm, use the most gentle, babying "mother knows best" tone of voice, and inform them in an ever so slightly patronising way something along the lines of, you do realise every school child knows this, dear, but in a way that is humourous and laugh afterwards, like inviting them to laugh along with their embarrassment at having said something so foolish.

But basically, create an atmosphere where you make it plain that it's something you think they should be embarrassed about, that they are displaying their ignorance and assumptions.

i think this is what the phrase "no doi" was invented for, lol

i have a coworker whose mansplanations have steadily increased to the point where it just seems out of control. like no one can get their work done because he is roaming the halls telling people about ipads, iphones, siri, speakers, jazz, liquor, everythinggggg. i'm dying! but i think because of my reactions to him he doesn't do it directly to me that much. i can still hear him though.

I like to twirl my hair and do big faux-naif eye blink and squeak, 'tee hee hee – reallllly?' and if they keep going, keep up the act, indie feet, hip-rocking, 'haha oh my god you know soooooo much'
eventually they realize they're being condescending
either that or it's annoying enough that they stop just to get me to tsop

Ha! That is quite a funny way of handling it.

I kinda wish that faux-naif were a position available to me in order to pull something like that off - but I guess that's the point. To ramp up the faux to the point where it becomes totally obvious. But it seems like the possibility of the expected "oh gee really!" response might almost be real would make that approach more effective.

I mean, that is always the thing, though, with these kinds of discussions. That partly it's blowing off steam at frustrating situations (and it is necessary tension-diffusing to consider awful answers that make us laugh - the "punch him in the dick!" and the "set him on fire! Then mansplain to him how combustion works and how to avoid it, ha ha ha!") but trying to find workable responses.

But I feel this sense of... what is effective is this kind of game-playing. And maybe that game-playing is necessary, because if you say flat out to a dude, "you are mansplaining, please stop" then suddenly you open up the world of butthurt and "how can you insult me like that" and "you're the sexist here because you're using the word mansplaining!" So you have to get them to play this game where, by your actions, you get them to see how condescending their actions are, and never actually use the word, but somehow get them to realise "Wow, I am telling you something you already know, huh" and smile sweetly and go "Yes, yes you are" but in a way that doesn't damage their ego or trigger the mummy-cadenza. And part of my resistance to that is, I don't like game-playing, and I don't like feeling manipulative. And the other half of it is, like, man, this is just more emotional labour and 'managing the sensitive feels of people who are actually adults' is not in my job description.

But, y'know, you have to work out what is effective at stopping this behaviour, and do it, to the best of your abilities.

Kind of in a weird place today with a lot of stuff banging around my head right now.

1) I start a new job tomorrow, and mixed in with the sheer relief of working again after so long, and the usual excitement/nerves/anticipation is actual fear. And not even that normal "Gulp, I hope they like me" fear, but fear left over from the experience of my last job and how Badly Wrong that all went. (I have tried to avoid talking about the circumstances because: partly legal agreement not to talk about it in exchange for gardening leave and a good reference; partly because wanting to put it behind me and not dwell and move on, thanks therapy!) You know something is behind you, but once Really Bad Things have happened, it's hard not to avoid the cringe that comes with the knowledge that crap like that happens, and something being a possibility - but trying very hard not to let that possibility become an expectation. And also the thing of wanting to balance being an authentic person and living an authentic life, with not knowing how "out" I can be. I dunno. I've scrutinised the boss and the team very carefully, let them get a good look at me and who I am / what I'm like, and now I just have to... trust. Walk into it with good intentions and good expectations of others, and hope for the best.

2) this is kinda meta and meta is almost always a bad idea. But. This isn't about any specific thread or poster, it's just a slow feeling. One can get so used to having the same conversations over and over on the internet and it's like bashing my head against a brick wall and the feeling that it changes nothing, except it just wears me down and makes me bitter and jaded and unhappy. But then, for once, you actually see the slow, imperceptible shift in culture become perceptible. That after 5, 10 years of saying "X, and Y, and Z" and being told you're crazy, you're mad, being called names and told to fuck off and how can you say these things, that isn't true. And you open a thread with a sinking feeling, thinking "I'm going to have to say X, and Y, and Z one more time" and then seeing someone else, a man, has actually said X, and Y, and Z and people are discussing that maybe X and Y and Z are true. And there is a strange mix of feelings. Partly relief, of actually, all that bashing one's head against a wall was not in vain, something has got through. But then, partly of annoyance, and "couldn't we have got to this point without the 5, 10 years of me bashing my head against the wall, and all the wear and tear on me, and the name-calling and the damage." And the prickle of annoyance at dudes who were ripping you to pieces 5 years ago are now blithely trotting out your arguments as if they never resisted them. Like, yes, people change, and culture slowly changes, and it's all a process, and things are moving, but slowly, and that movement is good and what you've wanted all along, and it doesn't matter how the ideas got in, but at least the are out there now and in the currency.

But at the same time, jesus, was all the wading through shit really necessary.

I guess I just have to think about things that I changed my mind on, and how I'd want to be judged on where I am now, not what I said in an angry moment 5 years ago. (Broken record: it's hard to give people the benefit of the doubt that you are so rarely afforded.)

Anyway, new job tomorrow, a great sigh of relief from some quarters that I won't be around on the internet 24/7 any more!