no boys allowed in the room!!!!

hey thanks! that trip was one of several "drive for hours to hang out for a night or two" trips that have been among the highlights of the last few years.

Lol my mom drove 12 hours to hang out in the Berkshires w me and 5 other crazy dancers for about 1.5 days and then drove 12 hours back--if that is "crazy," we're all in it together.

I am am going to AZ in October to visit my closest female friend who I've known for over 20 years. We're going to take a road trip to Sedona and then on the way back stop at a bunch of places including a virtually abandoned Flintstones theme park and a place that specializes in pies! I am so so excited for the whole time but mostly just to spend time with her. :D

that sounds fantastic!
friend roadtrips rule

I never heard back from my friend of 25 yrs that I mentioned upthread

my desperate handwritten letter to her either fell on deaf ears, got lost or she moved & didnt tell anyone

i have other longstanding friends who are still in my world & i love them also, but this one cuts deep

i will keep the candle burning but i kinda know deep down that its done :(

That is so sad. I'm sorry.

It's an awful feeling when someone you have thought of as your friend for a long time either can't or won't make time for you. It really hurts.

But people change, circumstances change; the only constant in life is change.

otm

I have recently distanced myself from a female friend. I feel awful, but it's come to the point where we just don't have anything in common anymore. We met at my work, 7 years ago. We were very good friends for a while, and mutual friends with another coworker. The three of us would hang out all the time. Then me and the other coworker became a lot closer. Then they both left the agency. Then the two of them had a HUGE falling out, and I was kind of caught in the middle. The original friend always wants to dine out at somewhere prohibitively expensive, or go shopping. Friend #2 just likes to chill and do dorky stuff. I feel like I have hung out far more with Friend #2 and we've become closer and closer, all while Friend #1 and I have drifted apart, to the point where i have now not seen Friend #1 since January. It's sad to see a friendship end, but.... I just can't force it.

I asked Friend #1 to hang out and do something chill, like go on a walk or see a movie, about 2 months ago. She replied "I want to go to sushi and dancing!" - I had like, $20 in my bank account. This is why we never get together.

one of my favorite old friends called me yesterday and it made me so happy -- like, she had a minute and thought of me and actually called me. it was great.

that's not why i bumped this thread though -- i was listening to the radio today and this lady was talking about a book she wrote about menopause (mostly a lol memoir type thing i think but i don't know who she is tbh). she was going on about how women in peri- and full menopause have less estrogen in their bodies, so they start to act less caring and nurturing and wanting to do fewer things for other people. she used an example of a woman getting hostile because her kids wanted her to fold their clothes or something like that. and i was like hold on -- (this is my question) -- estrogen doesn't make a person nurturing, right? the decreased amt of it doesn't make someone (like a woman going through The Change) un-nurturing, right?

i mean it sounded like garbage but she was saying it confidently and the interviewer didn't say anything contrary (this was on npr, "here and now" i think?) so i wondered if maybe i am ignorant about estrogen? then i googled and the only things that come up are garbage, so...that's not true, right? that is to say: there is not a relationship between estrogen and nurturing behaviors? i feel kinda dumb even asking this but it has been bugging me.

For Ivy's sake I hope it's garbage bc I have a suspicion I'm going right from post-partum to peri-menopause (I still haven't gotten my period so fingers crossed it just never comes back).

More likely the last in the example was just tired of folding all the damn clothes all the time.

Lady not last

Also my mom went through menopause when she was my age. I just found this out. It's like, could you have mentioned that before I waited until I was 37 to start trying to have a kid? Dang.

yeah it sounded like str8 horseshit but at the same time she said it like it was a known truth and all of sudden i was like huh?!
like i know there are premenstrual estrogen spikes and i know that they affect my mood, but that mood has nothing (NOTHING) to do with a tendency for or against "nurturing"

yeah that seems like horseshit but idk

Yeah let's not discount the likelihood (HIGH, IMO) that what she's talking about is women deciding that sacrificing themselves, their time, etc, for other people is NOT THEIR DUTY TO THE WORLD. A person can't just get tired of that shit?? Please.

Or, what carl said.

i heard that too. i don't ever feel a very nurturing instinct and i was tired so i felt like "oh, i guess that's what it is, i'm menopausal"

harbl otm -- i've been menopausal since, like, birth

well obvs that's what i was thinking too!!! i didn't explicitly say it but

sisterhood of the travellong fuck this bullshit pants

Sisterhood of the traveling I'm tired of bleeding in these stupid pants.

Also LL I think you are a pretty nurturing person! Not mothering, but you definitely care for people and dogs around you. Also you always have snacks.

snackmom

I am, but I've got enormous doubts that it has anything to do with estrogen. The more estrogen I feel, the more I despair at the general state of human existence tbrr. PMS makes me depreeeeeeeeeeessed. If that's an estrogen spike, no thx. Tying nurturing to estrogen just seems depressing to me. That this lady thought it was funny made me bummed out about the general understanding re: how women's bodies work :(

it adds a lot of extra (& unnecessary) anxiety about nurturing.. & estrogen levels in general. telling women that you need 'this much' estrogen to somehow attain a motherly instinct? like, it's bad enough that women are constantly called into question for not being motherly enough & all of the stigma tied to post partum depression without feeling like they have to meet some kind of estrogen goal where they suddenly will be delighted to fold their kids clothes... fuck that

yeah OTM the both of youse.

sisterhood of the travellong fuck this bullshit pants

― SEEMS TO ME (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, September 3, 2014 1:02 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sisterhood of the traveling I'm tired of bleeding in these stupid pants.

― carl agatha, Wednesday, September 3, 2014 1:16 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

<3 <3 <3

WIN

well obvs that's what i was thinking too!!! i didn't explicitly say it but

― cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Wednesday, September 3, 2014 12:23 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I got you! I just have to overstate everything, you know me.

feeling like they have to meet some kind of estrogen goal where they suddenly will be delighted to fold their kids clothes.

OTM--this is that emotional labor. DOING labor isn't enough, you have to pretend it's your greatest pleasure in life lest anyone think you don't love them enough.

So last night I had my first appointment with a nutritionist which was probably long overdue but it left me so excited and hopeful. Our whole goal is to work on my mentality of good foods v. bad foods and dieting or restriction and food-associated guilt in general. Basically we're trying to reshape the entire way I think about food and body image. We're going to try to do with using intuitive eating and I'm not allowed to track or count anything anymore which is both liberating and terrifying. I was also interested to learn that I was eating way few calories on most days and then overcompensating on weekends and throwing everything off whack. Anyway - this whole thing should be very interested and I'm excited to be doing it. Between this and my 2x a week therapy I'm pretty sick of talking/thinking about myself but I'm hoping it'll all be worth it soon.

Good luck, E. That sounds really interesting, and I hope you find it useful.

Thank you :).

That's a lot of hard work! You should be proud!

E, I'm in an online coaching group doing something similar, and also an almost unbelievably good online forum. Think I still have your email, will send you a forum link.

Oh man - please do! I would LOVE that. :D

And thanks, Carl. :D It often feels like a lot and sometimes it's overwhleming and feels like everything is worse than ever but I feel like it has to get worse before it gets better sometimes and trust that it's all worthwhile.

E that sounds cool. i'm into intuitive eating. now that I'm almost 30 i feel so much less bad about my enormous body and proud of how much i eat. even when my looks-obsessed co-worker is saying insane things and putting water on her salad i shovel still more food into my mouth. like hey this rice is awesome i put butter in it. i learned that it does not make me fat it just makes me into an engine. or it does make me fat and i'm ok with it. i am like a wall of person and no one can knock me over. also i am healthy as a horse. i love eating and being strong.

WTG E! Yeah that sounds like a lot of heavy stuff to deal with all at once, but it's def worth the effort! It'll be worth the trouble when you realize how much of your brain is freed from not thinking about all that stuff all the time. Then you can use it to think about other more interesting things, things of your choosing.

wait does she really put water on her salad?

yes that is absolutely true

she puts vinegar and then i guess feels like it needs something to cut it but doesn't want to put oil because that has fat in it so she sprinkles a little water on it

that is the saddest sentence

anyway yay E! so happy for you!

water on salad
ok now I've heard everything

E that sounds like a really great approach! I'm excited for u

I hope you can report back to us your findings and the things that are blowing your mind/rocking your world as you progress.

I have had to go back into a healthy eating mode that I am trying really hard to not allow to become Awful Diet Brain. I would love to hear more about intuitive eating discoveries if anyone has stuff they want to share to maybe inspire me and others

Veg, I will FB message you the same link I sent E. I've copied and pasted a ton of stuff from the board so that I can reflect on it. Paraphrasing some of that pretty closely to reflect my own experience:

Something that's been a real game-changer is thinking about what MY happiest, best approach to food might look like. It's entirely possible to have goals that are related to sustainable body changes that are geared to making you feel awesome, and other, just-as-important goals about food enjoyment, and Have It All. Food enjoyment might entail stuff like deciding to try every flavour of Ben & Jerry's or have pizza for breakfast regularly or never go a day without a nut butter or whatever floats your boat.

BUT, drop/tweak the things that you don't enjoy and won't miss, and addd in foods and behaviours you do want, rather than just cutting stuff out.

So it becomes like a sort of relaxed, curious, playful game where you win at getting the most enjoyment from your food every day. You remove the feeling of being constantly negative, broken, trying to control everything, 'at war'. No deadlines or pressure, no foods ruled out. The most important thing is long-term consistency with the broad patterns, not short term inflexibility.

I discovered all this stuff last October. I've been through a few phases since then: 1. unbridled joy at eating whatever I damn well want. 2. clinging to that a bit too much and eating more than I actually wanted. Sort of proving to myself I was allowed. 3. Slowly realizing that this was not only 'not worth it' in some theoretical sense, like 'not supposed to be worth it but I secretly love it', but actually, objectively no fun. I had to do it over and over and over again to be sure! 4. eating less. I only got to 'eating less' in about July. I'm finding clothes are looser now, and that's happening very, very slowly, and that's absolutely fine by me.

I'm doing 0 exercise except walking, and not even that much walking. I'd like to do more, but this kind of approach to eating is totally decoupled from any formal exercise at all.

^^^ this is where I want to be

I am so excited to be doing this and have just started to read some of the stuff on the boards. So far I haven't counted a single calorie but have continued to make healthy choices. I'm recording where I am on the hunger scale and how I feel after eating. I'm also eating a lot more slowly and listening to my body as best I can. It's been pretty interesting so far. I have a busy week coming up so don't know how much I'll be able to devote to learning more but I'm going to keep doing this and dig deeper as soon as I can.

:)

Nice! I don't use the hunger scale because it focuses me a bit too much on each bite (what about now? what about NOW?) but I do try to keep a background awareness of how full I'm getting. Mostly I try to 'pre-decide' how much is going to satisfy me and hold me a good few hours, and then just eat that, and I get better at that over time (there's a lot about pre-deciding on the boards)

Today was triggery. I just typed out a big long post about "false" rape accusations and the narrative surrounding them, but I don't have the energy to deal with the fall-out and the flappy-headed little boys today.

Someone can be falsely accused of murder, but it doesn't seem to mean that murder "isn't real" and all murder victims somehow faked it. Someone can be falsely accused of theft, but it doesn't seem to mean that theft "isn't real", and all theft victims made it up. But the existence of one single false rape accusation somehow often just gets twisted to mean that rape is ~not really a thing~, and all women are liars.

And I've just been sent down the awfully triggery memory hole about that time that I really, really was raped, and had the bruising and the vaginal injuries to prove it, but because I'd been drinking, and had a history of mental illness, the police pressured me into dropping the whole thing. And that's not a fun place to be. Especially not for the amusement and self-righteous flapping-headedness of little boys who muuuuuust discuss these pressing issues to maintain some edgy, contrarian stance.