no boys allowed in the room!!!!

Roxy and others otm, also you could have a discussion with the kids about this very thing e.g. do you think we should include guys at this thing, and talk about what we have discussed here? Although would prob end up as a points scoring exercise by other organisers...

I don't mean to derail, if there's more productive discussion to be had on the topic above, but I just need to... spout.

I dunno; I get so caught up in ~discussing~ and ~debating~ all these ~issues~ and right now, I'm just tired of being ... "angry" isn't even the right word, nor is "outrage" the right word. It's just that thing where all the angry-making events and discussions of the world just start to pile up on me, and I'm just sick of feeling provoked and sick of feeling like I have to constantly counter and argue down the injustice and absorb the hurtfulness. I'm tired of existing in that mode, because I get too full of anger and hurt, and it's not a nice place to live, but also it is boring to be there all the time.

So I don't want to be there. I just want to go ~BLEEEE CRUSHES~ right now and revel in a bit of untrammelled joy. And I know that if there's anything ILX hates, it's crushes and it's untrammelled joy, but right now, that's what I feel like feeling.

And I feel like I am living in luxury right now because I am revelling in two crushes right now, of rather different sorts, and it's like having one of each is... I don't know what to do with all this happiness!

So there's Type X crush, which is where you really admire and respect a person, because of their work, because of their competence, because they are morally sound and a good person, and the feelings about their qualities expands up into crushhood, and it's like your positive feelings about their actions and qualities expand up to form a regard which turns into crush and imbues them with sexiness and attractiveness because they are so inherently wonderful. Then there's a Type Y crush, which is all about how physically sexy and how attractive and beautiful a person is, and therefore your feelings about their looks have a halo effect whereby you start to appreciate everything that that person does, because their actions and qualities become imbued with their inherent sexiness.

I'm not saying that either of these forms are more legitimate or more "pure" than another, just that there are different forms of crush. And I currently have one of each of these types of crushes!

And I am now going to completely dissolve in squee because I very recently had the experience of being in a room with both crush X and crush Y, and having a strange but still wonderful conversation with Crush X (conversations with X are always great anyway, because X is intelligent and kind and wonderful) which turned into X telling me (after me joking, "I don't want to be around Y, I'm going to get a crush on Y") all of the reasons that they think Y is great and crushes are great, and totally feeding my crush on Y until I'm just a big giant ball of squee.

And partly this is completely feeding my crush on X, firstly because X is really loyal and just open in their admiration for Y which is a really noble quality, and secondly because it seems like X wants me to be happy and recognises that feeding my squee is a source of happy? But it also feeds my crush on Y, because it feels like my crush has been legitimised, because there must be something good about Y in order to attract and keep the loyalty and respect of X, but also because the things that X told me about Y were quite squee-worthy and adorable.

But anyway, crushes are wonderful and squee is great and right now I just feel really happy and great and inspired and full of positivity and the world seems like a great place for having both X and Y in it. The world is so full of terrible things that can drag you down if you let them, is it really so terrible to just take joy and happiness from the uplift that a crush brings? Now I am going to shut up about it all, but I just could not help but sharing in the happy and joy that crush-squee brings for one tiny moment of your attention. Thanking you for your tolerance.

great crushes are great, no apology necessary

positive squee!!

Well, I mean, they are not crushes that are going to go anywhere, nor do I want them to be! (In fact, X has a girlfriend who is so great and amazing that I totally crush on her as well.) But it's just the kind of *lift* that having crushes can bring, in terms of making the world seem like a happier and more wonderful place.

I miss that feeling! I hope I have it again soon.

I say get joy wherever you can take it!

I have been listening to King Crimson's first album on repeat and organizing my house and it is bringing me some gentle joy. *zippa zap zorp zip&*

have yall ever heard of Philly's Pissed? I'm sure there are a lot of groups who do similar work, but they were a group of women in the Philadelphia area kind of loosely formed around the punk/DIY scene who responded to instances of sexual assault in their community. If a survivor didn't want to see or talk to their abuser in person, they would communicate with the perp for them (if that's what the survivor wanted); if they didn't want to go to their parents, or the cops, they would help them deal without doing those things. They basically existed to protect and support the survivor and enact their wishes. I think they got guff for enacting the wish of beating a rapist up once (uncorroborated and poss untrue! heard from a third party). anyway, i'm thinking about starting a group like this in my town. cause i'm not doing enough stuff (lol)

oh and also distributed mucho amazing literature like, how to work on your shit (for those who have crossed boundaries), what consent is, etc

most still exists online

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/3108714?access_key=key-233hntor7xmurvy1cd70

"We also facilitate survivors in figuring out what they need to feel safe, whole and in control of their lives again. For many survivors, though certainly not all, this involves taking some kind of action with regard to their assault. One popular strategy is for a survivor to create a list of "demands" for the perpetrator to meet. If a survivor is interested in creating a list of demands, we encourage them to envision what would make them feel safe and more in control of their lives again, and what would make them feel that the person who assaulted them is being held accountable for their actions. Demands might include that a perpetrator do self-education around consent, write a letter taking responsibility for the assault(s), examine their substance use, or leave spaces when the survivor is present. Frequently, if a survivor creates a list of demands, they will ask that someone from Philly Stands Up works with the perpetrator in ensuring that they meet the demands."

OK, that link has a massive big trigger warning on it, and I'm going to heed that right now and wait until I'm in a better place to read it, because I'm feeling very edge-of-tears this morning for other reasons.

This ---> what they need to feel safe, whole and in control of their lives again. I mean, when you find out what that is, let me know, because I don't seem to ever find that place.

This organisation sounds amazing, I wish something like that (had) existed here. I mean, yeah, why can't I take a page from Roxy's book and start one myself? Fear. I am afraid of everything, or rather, I am afraid of everyone. I get kind of overwhelmed when I read about the things that some of the women on this thread do (especially Roxy, Carl, LL, In Orbit) in terms of community work and getting involved in things. Like, I have so much respect for people who get off their encounter-suited butts and do something because I feel like a failure and a fraud for not doing it. (And it's not through lack of time at the moment, it is fear, social anxiety, terror of having to deal with people.)

I dunno, I'm kind of wondering: how do you do this? Not how do you find the time, but how do you find the people? How do you find the courage? (And this is speaking as someone who has to psych herself up most weeks to go to the Community Garden, and that's only something I can cope with on a regular basis because it is 75% dealing with plants, and 25% dealing with other human beings.)

I feel you on the fear, tbh. It's something I've overcome really slowly, but I'm only just recently able to work in groups that aren't bands - and one of my experiences in a band is maybe, partially what caused some of the fear. And even now I find myself afraid to speak up in groups, or find myself being bulldozed because I am too afraid to speak up when I'm angry, or whatever (see above). But I'm working on it. The courage comes in dribs and drabs, but honestly I have to force myself to attend everything that I attend - not just meetings or community organizing stuff, but shows, movies, parties. Everything! I don't really even fully understand why, myself, but I get scared to leave the house and just have to suck it up. I'm not really sure how the sucking up happens - I just know things will be worse (I'll feel more depressed, my social anxiety will not be allayed) if I don't go. People are always surprised when I say I'm afraid of social interaction so I guess I overcompensate!

We have this constant back and forth in the rock camp organizing group where i want to just take care of everything through a chain email, and they're like "we have to meet in person"

"scared to leave the house" is not really true - just feel like leaving takes a huge mental effort

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's like that psyching yourself up process of telling yourself it won't be as terrible as you've already decided it might be in your head.

(I mean, I had to give myself a pep talk to get myself to get up and go to the gig on Wednesday that I had been looking forward to for months, because I was afraid I would not be able to handle the social interactions! That's nuts, but how I am at the moment. So even more disinclined to go into ~unknown situations~ rather than situations already known to be pleasurable.)

((I am sometimes actually literally scared to leave the house, but that's a different kind of fear, usually related to there being strangers in the yard or weirdoes on my street.))

my husband just got angry and started a fight because....he did all the dishes and they were mostly mine

how terrible for him

smdh

there are days when I am convinced mr veg is deliberately takes the opposing view on everything with me bcz it's me doing the talking

last straw was when i was talking up the new star wars movie with great excitement & he says "meh star trek is way better"

this from a man who i know for a *fact* to be a massive star wars nerd

i yelled a LOT

i mean i have been slacking on cleaning for reasons he knows. ive been in a constant lupus flare for the last 10 days or so, and dealing with depression and emotional issues, stress - you'd think that me not cleaning anything and the house being completely fucked would make him realize how much shit i do, not like, "wow the house is dirty for the first time ever....im going to clean it for the first time it has ever been cleaned cause its never been dirty before, i deserve an award"

ok im exaggerating. just pissed. angry at the passive aggression. he does clean, but so do i. i dont deserve a lecture on cleaning bc i didnt do my dishes while i was sick!

that's what i resent most about housework, it's an act of undoing rather than doing, so the more you do it the less apparent it is and the only time it has any visibility is when there's a mess. which is strongly the case here right now.

i'm so sorry you are not well, roxy, chronic illness is hard to bear.

You know, there are times when I'm really lonely and would love to have a partner more than anything in the world.

Then there are times when I think "some wanker is gonna live in my house and complain when I don't do the dishes? FUCK THAT!"

Second shift, right there, y'all.

i have been enjoying a lot of irl girl talk these last few days with my visiting friends
having my words come out of my mouth and then vanish is so much better than typing that i wish there were a better way to describe it

I get kind of overwhelmed when I read about the things that some of the women on this thread do (especially Roxy, Carl, LL, In Orbit) in terms of community work and getting involved in things. Like, I have so much respect for people who get off their encounter-suited butts and do something because I feel like a failure and a fraud for not doing it. (And it's not through lack of time at the moment, it is fear, social anxiety, terror of having to deal with people.)

I dunno, I'm kind of wondering: how do you do this? Not how do you find the time, but how do you find the people? How do you find the courage?

For me, don't give me any credit for going out and talking to people and looking for opportunities to connect to them, because by and large, that's not work, that's ESSENTIAL to me. It's fun, it's energizing. Plus you know how I love a cause and a good, defensible set of convictions (and I'm happiest when I'm suffering--I blame religious upbringing).

I feel like I have the absolute most luxurious life right now that I can almost possibly imagine: I wake up when I want and watch the news (stimulation), cook and do correspondence and make appointments, and then I go to events & workshops where I cram my brain full of things (stimulation) and watch and listen to people and get my emotions involved (stimulation), and talk and socialize and interact (stimulation) and then I go home when I want and have almost total solitude when I get there and I am never bored, EVER. It's amazing. The only bad part will be figuring out how to make all this amazing stuff PAY ME MONEY in a way that I really really hope won't require tolerating too much boredom.

omg you and me both sis re: figuring out how to make fun stimulating life lucrative!

Seriously! I had a 2-hr mtg today with a campaign manager for a social justice non-profit and got offered the chance to head up/innovate some initiatives with an eye to running for an advisory board seat later this year. All volunteer, though. On one hand, fuck you pay me, but on the other hand I need their organizational legitimacy and A SEAT ON THE BOARD OMG. That is BOMB on a resume (and I believe deeply in their causes and would be able to direct their budding policy development so it's not just an authority perk).

The real payoff though was 2 solid hours of deep connection and agreement about movement work and connecting to ppl and developing them as leaders. If I could do that all the time FOR MONEY? Died and gone to heaven.

Some days I think, "Yeah, every millennial with a conscience wants a job that 'does good' and THEY have advanced degrees in law and public policy and experience as field organizers. YOU waited until age 37 to try to jump into this world that 25-year-olds are better at than you, and you think you're going to find someone to pay you in this market? Get real, idiot." And then some days I think, everyone just needs one connection that works out, and from there you can work with what you've got.

Today is one of the better days.

I dunno; my best friend (who lives in NYC) got a job working for her dream company (working in the field of reproductive health, in capacities she hugely believes in) and IIRC, she was on the other side of 40, and had been unemployed a long time when she finally got it. OTOH, she started in a support role and worked her way up, but has proved her value to the place over and over again, compared to the millennials whose parents buy them internships or whatever. So those jobs do exist, and regular people I personally know do get them.

But, personally, I just feel such a disconnect from everything you are saying. Like, the idea of a fun, stimulating life is so far from my experience right now I don't even know how to get back there. I'm coming up to a year unemployed now, and running out of hope faster than I'm running out of money. The idea of finding *any* kind of job, let alone a ~meaningful~ or stimulating one just seems so remote. Gonna try (probably unsuccessfully) not to be a downer and shut up about this. I am starting to feel the whole "what if I never actually work again?" the way that I started to feel "what if I really am never in a relationship again?" about 10 years ago, and the latter turned out to be a correct prediction, so, uh, *panic*. Because life is much harder to live without a job than without a partner. But I guess I just have to try to think about all of the women (and there are lots in my family) who went on to interesting and stimulating careers in the second half of their lives, when they were in their 50s or even 60s (my Mum got her lifelong dream job in her late 60s!)

I kinda have to keep stepping back and reminding myself, no matter how useless I feel at the moment, like, all of the things I have managed to do with this year off. Even if none of them was "saving the world" or whatever, I still did a lot of necessary travelling and reconnecting with distant loved ones, I wrote a Proper Novel, I did a whole column plus illustrations for a magazine I really love. I have not just lain in bed the whole year with a pillow over my head, which is what it sometimes feels like I've done. But none of those things are lucrative, either.

It's just hard, because IO, when I see you describing "going out and talking to people and looking for opportunities to connect" as essential fun, rather than work, it just makes me feel like a space alien. But then I just have to remind myself, no, you are just an extrovert, and extroverts derive energy and happiness from contact with other people. And I am just an extreme introvert, and we're all different and we're all allowed to be.

roxymuzak just wanted to pipe up in here that I hope you are feeling better, and much love and warmth to you, and that if I were in Knoxville I'd definitely come clean your house. <3

I had a dream last night that the trendy thing to do was for gal pals to make youtube clips of them taking turns washing each other's hair in the sink in a really caring, charismatic way.

Aw thanks homo2

Well this is fucking sickening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/us/how-one-college-handled-a-sexual-assault-complaint.html?_r=1

http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/hobart-william-smith-sexual-assault

I went to this school for my freshman and sophomore years of college before transferring out because I couldn't handle the atmosphere. A couple weeks int my freshman year I was raped by a dude I'd met during orientation. I didn't say anything or report it because I was 17 and really naive and I thought that because I was incredibly drunk and told him to use a condom that it was my fault even though I said "no". Later I found out that this person had been accused of assault by several women but that nothing ever happened to him. Ugh. I feel sick.

Ugh! I'm sorry, I don't really have the mental stability to read something like the linked pieces today.

But E, I am so sorry this thing happened to you, And so *angry* that is happened, and that nothing ever happened to this guy. That is not right! (Though I understand being naive and afraid and not wanting to report anything.) It was fucking wrong for him to do it!

Oh E I'm so sorry. I'm sorry it happened to you and that it happened again and that you feel sick.

I tried to read the articles and can't do it either (and I've just been to therapy AND a psychiatrist appointment so I feel like I am about as mentally fine-tuned as I ever get). I got four paragraphs into the NYT piece and my vision actually got red with rage. I will come back to it, though.

Oh thank you so much, guys. It was nearly 20 years ago at this point but I just saw this article and identified with it quite strongly in some ways it was like OMG this bullshit is STILL going on?! It's not really that surprising at all(sadly)but it's still rage-inducing.

this bullshit is STILL going on

Yes, yes this. And how many times does it have to happen before the people putatively responsible do something? Probably the better question is how to we get better people in positions of responsibility.

Love and support to you, E, while you process yr reactions.

To the article, I mean. And to having to be reminded of sexual violence all the time because it's everywhere.

<3 Thanks, L.

I'm so sorry ENBB. this stuff is so, so awful. & infuriating, & sad.

im so sorry E.

E, love to you, and carl agatha absolutely OTM re: getting people with their capacity for moral thought and action still intact into positions of responsibility.

Someone posted this on twitter yesterday, seems salient to earlier discussion that was had here:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/20/mood-swings-more-than-pms-contraceptive-pill-alice-roberts

I have never, ever been able to take the contraceptive pill because I found it fucks with my mood disorder. I always wish there were a way to explore these experiences without degenerating into "periods make women be crazzzeeeeee" tropes. :-/ There were a couple of sentences in that piece that really hit me hard.

I turned down the offer of hormonal treatment for fibroids, for many of the same reasons. Surgeon consultant merely looked bemused when I suggested there ~might~ be a problem with his recommendation. GRRRR.

I will never, ever, ever, EVER take the BCP again. I took it for like 9 months in 2003 and it made me feel... terrible. I am "estrogen dominant" as it is without the help of synthetic hormones.

Bcp and all hormonal bc makes me into an emotionless zombie. Not good. Then there's always a weird fallout when I come off them.

I am currently 5 days late for my period and freaking out. I've felt like I was in lupus flare for a month - pregnancy might explain that?! :/

Eeep!

Pee on a stick, rox. It's been long enough and not knowing won't do you any good.